Revelation 21:1 - Literally True or Metaphor and Why It Matters

Revelation 21:1 says, "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more."

 Why would there be no more sea and how could that kind of a New Heavens and New Earth literally be a great place to live?

Everyone I knew in the Worldwide Church of God from Herbert Armstrong on down taught and believed that the Book of Revelation is always literally true. I never heard the word "metaphor" uttered once when wondering "How could that be?" 

So how could Revelation 21:1 be taken literally without creating Hell, not a New Heavens and New Earth on Earth?

One author offers this explanation.

"This passage puzzled me for a long time, too. After all, most of us enjoy the sea -- boating, swimming, snorkeling, etc. The sea is beautiful, and majestic. It would be a shame if there were nothing to take its place in the new creation.

But in ancient Hebrew thought, the sea was a dangerous place. Among Israel's neighbors, Yam was the terrifying sea-god. Unlike their neighbors the Phoenicians (modern Lebanon), the Israelites were not especially fond of boats. The primeval waters of Genesis 1 are frightening and chaotic. During "de-creation" (the Flood), the primeval waters deluge the earth, although Noah's family is rescued. The Red Sea too is the scene of divine rescue, although the waters flood back once the Hebrews have crossed to dry land, killing the pursuing Egyptians. Joshua too crosses the water (near Jericho), a similar miracle preparing the way for the Israelites to enter the Promised Land.

Skye Jethani expressed it well: "The massive power and unpredictability of the sea is why ancient peoples saw it as a symbol of evil. The inhabitants of ancient Israel, who were not a seafaring people, viewed the ocean as a realm of chaos, destruction, and darkness. Rather than a delightful place for recreation, to them the sea was a dark abyss to be feared. In their literature, including the biblical narrative, the sea became a metaphor for the forces of evil and disorder that stood in opposition to their God of order and beauty" (With: Reimagining the Way you Relate to God, 136).

I also like the way Philip Graham Ryken put it: "The sea represents everything that chafes and frets under the dominion of God; everything that is out of our control. But there is nothing like that in the new heaven and the new earth. Everything there is under the orderly blessing of God" (in D. A. Carson and Jeff Robinson Sr., eds., Coming Home Essays on the New Heaven and New Earth, 125).

So when John tells is that there will be no more sea, God is assuring us that in the new world there will be no more evil, chaos, or danger. I imagine (speculate) there will be no shortage of beauty and majesty! If the ocean is no more, then something better will have taken its place."

https://www.douglasjacoby.com/qa-1486/

I would suspect this to be more the intent of the author of Revelation. Unless "John" was just out of touch with the realities of such an event or on good drugs.  

When I was digging at the archaeological site Megiddo in northern Israel, I was in the Valley of Megiddo. The world for Mount  is "Har" and it is there that all the armies of the earth will gather in the place called "Har-Megiddo"

Revelation 16:

² The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. ¹³ Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. ¹⁴ They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

¹⁵ “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

¹⁶ Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

However, it was not difficult to notice that the actual space in the Valley of Megiddo was probably not big enough to accommodate "the Kings (armies I assume) of the whole world".  Assyrians, Egyptians and many others have fought at Har-Megiddo for thousands of years for sure. But only two at a time. That would about do it. 

When I inquired about this, Israel Finkelstein (The Bible Unearthed)  said, "Well, we exaggerate."

When I was overlooking the Temple Mount and the church hymn "Mt Zion Stands Most Beautiful....the Joy of All the Land" came to mind, and since the hymn said "the city of the mighty king does on its North side stand", I looked South and asked, "Where is Mt. Zion?"  I was told "Right there!?   I said, "That's just a dirt hill and looks like all these other dirt hills."

He said, "We exaggerate"

I suspect that much of what the Churches of God cannot bring themselves to see as anything but literally true and how it will all be in the Wonderful World Tomorrow is metaphor and it would be wise not to portray it as anything else. 

A world without literal seas would be Hell on Earth

I suspect Revelation 9:16 was also a bit of a reach with 200 Million HORSEMEN taking out 1/3 of humanity. (And don't substitute "tanks, troops and F-18's for Horsemen!) 

The Sixth Trumpet
…15So the four angels who had been prepared for this hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16And the number of mounted troops was two hundred million; I heard their number. 17Now the horses and riders in my vision looked like this: The riders had breastplates the colors of fire, sapphire, and brimstone. The heads of the horses were like the heads of lions, and out of their mouths proceeded fire, smoke, and brimstone.…

Should We Stone the False Prophets and False Teachers of Armstrongism?

ISIS’s Persecution of Gay People

Our favorite self-appointed fool who pretends to be the leader of the ONLY true Church of God doing a work in these end times, is unhappy with Chicago electing a lesbian mayor and happy with Brunei proclaiming shariah law this week that they will stone to death gays and adulterers. Nothing excites some of the more legalistic Armstrong Church of God leaders than a good stoning.  If some had their way the list would include rebellious spouses, loud mouthed children and bloggers who do not respect them. Death can never come too quickly!

The self-appointed Elijah fool writes:

The city of Chicago voted in a lesbian to be its next mayor:

April 3, 2019
CHICAGO (AP) — Chicago Mayor-elect Lori Lightfoot’s resounding victory was a clear call for change at City Hall and a historic repudiation of the old-style, insider politics that have long defined the nation’s third-largest city.
Lightfoot, a former federal prosecutor who’d never been elected to public office, defeated Cook County Board President and longtime City Council member Toni Preckwinkle on Tuesday with backing from voters across the city. Late results showed Lightfoot, 56, winning every one of the city’s 50 wards.
Lightfoot also made history, becoming the first black woman and the first openly gay person to be elected Chicago mayor. Chicago will become the largest U.S. city to have a black woman serve as mayor when Lightfoot is sworn in May 20. https://www.apnews.com/b0af16bc082e401a92e2826494498a64 

The Bible warns against homosexuality and lesbianism, as well as approving such behaviors:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,  …
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. (Romans 1:18-32)

As far as deserving of death, many in the world are outraged by a new law in Brunei:

3 April 2019

New sharia laws in Brunei include death by stoning for gay sex and adultery. Experts say the harsh punishment is unlikely to be implemented due to the high bar of proof. …

Global condemnation 
There has been international condemnation of the legal revisions pushed by Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah, one of the world’s richest men who has wielded power in the tiny tropical nation for nearly five decades.
Germany, France and the United States have condemned the new laws as incompatible with Brunei’s human rights commitments and called for the sultan to reverse implementation. https://www.dw.com/en/global-outcry-as-brunei-implements-draconian-sharia-laws-including-death-by-stoning-for-gays/a-48173612

Armstrongites and other legalistic preachers have always been quick to condemn others that they think are breaking the rules.  The vengeful laws of old covenant scripture are appropriate for these slackers, but never so much for the people in charge.  If it were equally applicable, 1/2 - 3/4's of the church leaders and ministry would be dead.   But no, it is only for those grievous sinners OUTSIDE the circles of the most converted church on the face of the earth.

Elijah Elisha ben Thiel continues:

Stoning was specifically listed as the appropriate punishment for adultery in the Old Testament:

22 “If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die–the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel. 23 “If a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor’s wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 22:22-24)

He is particularly incensed that the idea of stoning people is being prophibited by the good folk North of the border in Canada:

The Bible considers adultery and homosexuality capital crimes:

12 If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death. They have committed perversion. Their blood shall be upon them. 13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. (Leviticus 20:12-13) 

Perhaps it should be mentioned that since a court decision in 2002, Canada has restricted freedom to quote and cite portions of the Bible like Leviticus 20:13...

Elijah Bob believes that he has the right to get up and spout idiotic nonsense as a self-appointed Elijah to the church and the world.  The problem here is, just how many Elijah's does the Armstrongite Churches of God, or the world, need?  How many hundreds of Elijah's have come and gone in the church over the decades, with every single one of them proven to be liars?  That has never stopped the current stream of idiots self-appointing themselves.  From Thiel and Malm to Weinalnd, Pack and Flurry, that list begins with a roaring start and will never end till Armstrongism is dead

All of these men are lairs and have NOT been appointed or sent by God to proclaim a message to the church or the world.  They love to spout scripture against those they deem unworthy, but fail to ever read the scriptures that were written specifically FOR THEM!

Deuteronomy 13 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

The False Prophet

13 “If a prophet or someone who has dreams arises among you and proclaims a sign or wonder to you, 2 and that sign or wonder he has promised you comes about, but he says, ‘Let us follow other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us worship them,’ 3 do not listen to that prophet’s words or to that dreamer. For the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul. 4 You must follow the Lord your God and fear Him. You must keep His commands and listen to His voice; you must worship Him and remain faithful[a] to Him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he has urged rebellion against the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the place of slavery, to turn you from the way the Lord your God has commanded you to walk. You must purge the evil from you.

Don’t Tolerate Idolatry

6 “If your brother, the son of your mother,[b] or your son or daughter, or the wife you embrace, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and worship other gods’—which neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 any of the gods of the peoples around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other— 8 you must not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity,[c] and do not spare him or shield him. 9 Instead, you must kill him. Your hand is to be the first against him to put him to death, and then the hands of all the people.10 Stone him to death for trying to turn you away from the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the place of slavery. 11 All Israel will hear and be afraid, and they will no longer do anything evil like this among you.

12 “If you hear it said about one of your cities the Lord your God is giving you to live in, 13 that wicked men have sprung up among you, led the inhabitants of their city astray, and said, ‘Let us go and worship other gods,’ which you have not known, 14 you are to inquire, investigate, and interrogate thoroughly. If the report turns out to be true that this detestable thing has happened among you, 15 you must strike down the inhabitants of that city with the sword. Completely destroy everyone in it as well as its livestock with the sword. 16 You are to gather all its spoil in the middle of the city square and completely burn up the city and all its spoil for the Lord your God. The city must remain a mound of ruins forever; it is not to be rebuilt. 17 Nothing set apart for destruction is to remain in your hand, so that the Lord will turn from His burning anger and grant you mercy, show you compassion, and multiply you as He swore to your fathers. 18 This will occur if you obey the Lord your God, keeping all His commands I am giving you today, doing what is right in the sight of the Lord your God.

Is Elijah Bob ready to have his family murdered in front of him, his home and businesses ground down to a mound of ruin?  Since he is a self-appointed false prophet and certified liar leading people astray, isn't that what he deserves?  If it is good for the gays and adulterers he wants to stone, then it has to be equally good for the dreaming false teacher Bob, right?

But then, this is an Armstrongite Church of God leader we are talking about and scripture never applies to them.  80 some years of Armstrongism has proven that.

Passover Mess: Part II

There was an Exodus, but many modern ‘scholars’ deny it because they do not realize when it actually was

  http://www.cogwriter.com/news/old-testament-history/there-was-an-exodus-but-many-modern-scholars-deny-it-because-they-do-not-realize-when-it-actually-was/

Several things can be taken away from this article.

1. Indiana Bob believes the reason "scholars" deny the Exodus is because they don't realize WHEN it was.  Actually they deny "THAT" it was for archaeological, logistic and historical reasons. 

2.  Indiana Bobl, judging by the length of the article, probably does not have many clients as a Naturopath or being an Apostle/Prophet just takes a lot of time 

3. Indiana Bob believes Herbert Armstrong and Dr. Hoeh knew more than those who devote their lives and careers to such matters. 

4. Indiana Bob believes he knows more than those who devote their lives and career to such matters. A common practice with Apostles, Prophets, Elijah's and That Prophets.

Hey! Indiana Bob...Please give me a call

Israel Finkelstein (Hebrew: ישראל פינקלשטיין‎, born March 29, 1949) is an Israeli archaeologist and academic. He is the Jacob M. Alkow Professor of the Archaeology of Israel in the Bronze and Iron Ages at Tel Aviv University. Finkelstein is widely regarded as a leading scholar in the archaeology of the Levant and a foremost applicant of archaeological data in reconstructing biblical history. He is also known for applying the exact and life sciences in archaeological and historical reconstruction. Finkelstein is the excavator of Megiddo – a key site for the study of the Bronze and Iron Ages in the Levant.
Finkelstein is a member of the Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities and a 'correspondent étranger' of the French Académie des Inscriptions et Belles Lettres. Finkelstein has received many prestigious academic and writing awards. In 2005, he won the Dan David Prize for his impact and radical revision of the history of Israel in the 10th and 9th centuries BCE. In 2009 he was named Chevalier de l’Ordre des Arts et des Lettres by the French Minister of Culture, and in 2010, received a Doctorate honoris causa from the University of Lausanne. He is a member of the selection committee of the Shanghai Archaeology Forum, the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.
Among Finkelstein's books are the best sellers The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of its Sacred Texts (2001) and David and Solomon: In Search of the Bible's Sacred Kings and the Roots of the Western Tradition (2006), both written with Neil Asher Silberman. Also well-known are the textbooks on the emergence of Ancient Israel, titled The Archaeology of the Israelite Settlement (1988); on the archaeology and history of the arid zones of the Levant, titled Living on the Fringe (1995); and on the Northern Kingdom of Israel, titled The Forgotten Kingdom (2013).

While we're at it...

Hey! Apostle, Elijah, That Prophet, Creationist Dave Pack...Please give me a call

Prothero has received a number of honors for his research as well as his lectures and books. In 1991, he received the Charles Schuchert Award of the Paleontological Society for the outstanding paleontologist under the age of 40.^[33] His book Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why it Matters received the 2007 PSP award for excellence in earth science from the Association of American Publishers.^[34]

In 2013 he received the Diamond Award for Distinguished Achievement in Science and Technology from the Glendale Unified School District.^[5] The National Association of Geoscience Teachers selected him for the 2013 James Shea Award.^[35] His lectures on topics like evolution, fossil mammals and climate change have been featured at the Skeptic Society Lecture Series and at The Amaz!ng Meeting as well as the Paleontological Society where he was named a Distinguished Speaker in 1993-1994.

Prothero was awarded the 2015 Joseph T Gregory Service Award honoring his outstanding service to the welfare of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology.^[36] In 2016 he was awarded the Friend of Darwin award from the National Center for Science Education, with NCSE's executive director Ann Reid saying "it would be hard to think of anyone who has contributed as much to the public understanding of the paleontological evidence for evolution and against creationism as Don Prothero." ^[37] He was also named a fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry citing his “distinguished contributions to science and skepticism.”^[38]