The one thing the Church of God has always been good at

Do Preachers Believe What they Preach? Do the Preached to Believe All They Hear?

Yes, of course, most do but a genuine and critical thinker will have their moments. Then facts will either overtake faith or faith repress the facts in my personal experience.

Were and are men in the One Man Show Ministries  like Herbert Armstrong, Garner Ted,  Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry and Ron Weinland sincere? Did and  do they personally and sincerely believe, I mean deep down believe, that what they say, believe and do?  Do they ever have their moments?  Do you?

Do Dave Pack and Gerald Flurry really believe they are spoken of in scripture?  Did Ron Weinland really believe 2008 was it?  Does Bob Thiel really believe, I mean really down deep believe he is the One True Church on Earth and he it's one true prophet?  Does he ever doubt "double portion" threw him down a rabbit hole?

Do people really truly believe that others, not them, will burn and fry and scream and cry for eternity in a Hell fire or deserve being thrown off a cliff into the Lake of Fire?  Or do we just kid ourselves on that stuff?  Most I know have doubts but also fears expressing them. I can't imagine members in Pack's, Flurry's or Weinland's fanatical church believe all they hear.  Most just quietly wait with a "we'll see."  Why do they do that?  The price of being mistaken in Dave's church is going to be very high.

Here are a few opinions on the question "Do Preachers believe what they preach?"

"Is the sun a planet? Is the moon a star? Is the earth yellow and full and made of cheese? "

'I would like to think pastors believe in what they preach, but truthfully it is dependent on the individual pastor. The one thing we tend to forget is that the pastor is human which means the pastor is subject to the same temptations as ordinary people"

"Most do some don't. Those that don't just keep doing it probably because they're worried about what others would think. Also, they're obviously not there for "money" because you don't really become a pastor for the great salary that it pays"

"yeah they spend their lives convincing themselves"

In the interest of transparency and as long as I can look back on my own experience with the topic  It's only fair I answer the question myself. I'll be as brief as possible. 

As a teen, believing I was to be in ministry, yes I was very sincere and believed what I read. It was the Bible after all and I grew up with "the Bible says" in spades. I was a sincere believing AC student. An outsider for sure and I recall the first words out of my mouth to a Men's Club icebreaker were "I don't know all the church teaches or why but I have read enough to want to find out."  

I felt strongly about being in the ministry because my dad shared with me AFTER I told him I was going to be in it and heading first to Minneapolis that when he realized his first born son, my brother, was as damaged as he was, dad prayed that , "If you give me a healthy son, you can have him."  Smultsy I know, but evidently I was God's answer to my dad's prayer. I have never been sure he should have told me that as it may have kept me in ministry longer than I personally wanted to be as the drama and trauma of WCG unfolded. 

I believed the basics. Second Coming, Baptism, preaching the Gospel, living the life, Holydays and Sabbath.  In hindsight it all pointed to a better future. It was the 60's and 70's after all. How much longer can this go on?

But over the years, I have to say I believed it less and less as I studied more and more into the origins etc of the Bible. The lost career wish of paleontology, cosmology etc that also was a part of me from my youth called to me and I lost my view of Bible literalism. I also saw contradictions and after pastoring thousands, religion didn't really change us much.

The ministry was boring to me personally as well. There was no room for innovation and dealing with the findings of science vs the Bible. Churches can't do that with set beliefs. It is the "faith restrictions" that keep it all in place. I don't think that way and learned that I truly am not faith based but rather evidence based in my thinking. I came into the church because it seemed to provide evidence but as I grew older, it was just faith not evidence that is was so.

I did not give sermons, however, on things I did not believe.  I skipped over British Israelisms, Divine Healing with no medical considerations, divorce and remarriage issues until they changed to what they should have been to begin with, The Place of Safety and whether the air in your tires counted as leavening...

At times I drank too much, a skill I learned mostly in my Chicago experience at 24ish. I never drank a thing until I went to AC and then sparingly "for my health."  The ministry?  Different story. I grew up around drink but I found that stress (I got caught up in "the East Coast Rebellion of 74", fired and rehired etc) made me withdraw and want to be left alone. Theological stress and the stress of the idealism of religion and actual behavior of humans was a challenge. I had no experience in it. It was not a part of my growing up religion and I had no coping skills. I did not sign up for all the shit WCG could dish out for minister to handle. 

I got a DUI  in the 90's when it all was reaching a bitter end for me, spent a night in a SC jail terrified and knew I had to get out of this whole mess and find some peace NOT in WCG and not in religion. It's hard to tell this but necessary. I accept my humanity and had no special feelings about being "the minister."  I never did drink much along the way. Just badly. I don't any longer. There seemed also to be a tendency in our history I was not aware of until it came up with others. In hindsight, I was badly handling the pressure and stress of seeing the church unravel and realizing I did not believe or have faith of any kind in any of it anymore.  Over drinking is a sign of personal stress and an indication that internal stress and issues are not being addressed head on. I tried pot in Oregon because it was legal and the store just down the street. I never smoked so opted for edibles. I soon could not recall what I just said or anyone just said so conversation was futile. I went to bed. Got that out of my system and curiosity! lol.  I have to say, the shops were set up like jewelry stores and pharmacies. Very cool. 

So the best I can say is that I personally was sincere until I wasn't. Transitions are messy. Mine was very messy. Divorce that my wife did not deserve and more experiences, out of "no one is going to tell me what to do" all reactions to letting others tell me how it all is when it was not. I found comfort and understanding in a relationship outside "the rules" because no one inside the church listened or cared much what I felt or thought. I did and she did. 

I learned several time over the years in ministry not to naively trust my peers or the administration with personal feelings, thoughts and challenges.  It just never turned out right. I was criticized for being depressed and getting professional help. The encouragers were never encouraging. 

In hindsight It's probably why I wrote: https://ezinearticles.com/?Everyone-Wears-Masks---Your-Pastor-and-Priest,-Your-Mom,-Dad,-Family,-and-YOU!&id=168861

 I did not stay for the pay. The pay was not all that great and I never made what my dad did at Kodak even. My parents died at just under 100 and I credit that to them living in the same house for 78 years in the neighborhood they grew up in, never having to move and attending a sane local church up the street with lifetime friends. I stayed too long because I did care about the local church people.  I found out they did not care much for me and it got easier to leave them behind too.  When WCG went Protestant, it simple was not going to happen for me. The Wheel of Religion had been reinvented for me. Joe and others thought it all was Jesus performing a great miracle. 

Lots to share. Some pretty crazy but on with the posting...  There were failings of practicing what I preached, but often what I failed in, I did not preach either. I found myself very willing to listen, support and share with others in both ministry and member the same things they failed to practice but said they believed. I know lots of COG people, member and minister alike who failed to practice what they preach.  It's the challenge of being human in a should/should not, must/must not culture.

The topic has been studied and the painful  questions asked.

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2010/03/17/what-should-pastors-do-when-they-dont-believe-what-they-preach/

"With the help of a grant from a small foundation, administered through Tufts University, we set out to find some closeted nonbelievers who would agree to be intensively — and, of course, confidentially–interviewed… For this pilot study we managed to identify five brave pastors, all still actively engaged with parishes, who were prepared to trust us with their stories. All five are Protestants, with master’s level seminary education. Three represented liberal denominations (the liberals) and two came from more conservative, evangelical traditions (the literals)" 

The quotations from the pastors are heartbreaking. In some cases, they’ve been entrenched in their faith for so long that they don’t know what else to do. As one pastor puts it, it’s like trying to switch your major when you’re so close to graduating: Why not just finish up what you started?

Once you’re locked into the role, it’s very difficult to leave. 

Here’s what one pastor said:

“Here’s how I’m handling my job on Sunday mornings: I see it as play acting. I kind of see myself as taking on a role of a believer in a worship service, and performing. Because I know what to say. I know how to pray publicly. I can lead singing. I love singing. I don’t believe what I’m saying anymore in some of these songs. But I see it as taking on the role and performing. Maybe that’s what it takes for me to get myself through this, but that’s what I’m doing.”

What do all these pastors have in common? The authors write:

The loneliness of non-believing pastors is extreme. They have no trusted confidantes to reassure them, to reflect their own musings back to them, to provide reality checks. As their profiles reveal, even their spouses are often unaware of their turmoil. Why don’t they resign their posts and find a new life? They are caught in a trap, cunningly designed to harness both their best intentions and their basest fears to the task of immobilizing them in their predicament. Their salaries are modest and the economic incentive is to stay in place, to hang on by their fingernails and wait for retirement when they get their pension." 

So I simply ask if Dave Pack, Ron Weinland, Gerald Flurry and all others of course, actually believe down deep the stories they tell and the views they have of themselves. How can someone believe such insane teachings to begin with? How can a man be so consistently wrong and still preach with straight face?  How can a man see himself spoken of in the scriptures? How can you demand people give up all and follow THEM? What's wrong with those who follow them we might also ask?  Or are they stuck in place having said too much with no way out?

Even Paul, who promised a soon return of Jesus and told people how it all was going to be for them and how they should do or not do this or that because of time being short, seems not have been able to admit or face the fact he was mistaken. No apologies. No recognition save for "I have fought a good fight...there for there is laid up FOR ME...." it seems. Why is it so difficult to say "I was wrong-I'm sorry-Please forgive me-I love you."?   It's hard to back out of a mistake gracefully.

So...Do they really believe it. Are they really untouched by their own humanity?

How about you?

(I'm gonna regret pushing the publish button)

:)

My Best Teacher: And just for fun

Not one of the most memorable and best teachers and examples for me personally in my life was any fellow pastor and certainly not the Armstrongs.  It might have been my father of course. But looking back now and outside of my dad, it was Hidy Ochai, my karate instructor in Vestal, New York.  This is the only teacher I have ever met who was all that he appeared to be and lived the life he taught.  I honor him the most for his peaceful strength and philosophy of "No be there...BUT and IF you have to be there, then fight well."

Master Ochai turned down teaching Elvis karate when visiting Graceland and Elvis shot the Television with a pistol. He felt Elvis had a bad attitude and wasn't interested in teaching him his techniques after witnessing that.

Hidehiko "Hidy" Ochiai is a Japanese-born martial arts instructor, author, and actor. He is credited with establishing the Washin-Ryu style of karate in the United States in 1966. He was the winner of the United States Grand National Karate Championship five consecutive times.Ochiai was inducted into the Black Belt Hall of Fame twice—as Instructor of the Year for Japanese Arts in 1979 and as Man of the Year in 1980. He resides in Vestal, New York...

Master Ochai grew up on the outskirts of Hiroshima in during WW2.He recounted to me that after the Atomic Bomb destroyed Hiroshima he was led into town as a child by his father. They lived behind a hill that shielded them from the blast. He recalled seeing "little melted people" begging to die.

 He bore a scare that one rarely saw and only when he performed without his shirt that went half way around him from front to back. He said when he was a teen, another almost cut him in half with a  sword and he vowed that he'd never be that vulnerable again. 

I was asked to help him several times and the one time was just before leaving for the feast that afternoon. He's a small man and had me "attack" him in front of a High School audience on a wooden stage.  Next thing I know, he's got me up on his shoulders, spinning me around and throwing me to the wooden floor, which we are supposed to know how to do without dying. Needless to say I groaned all the way to the Feast that afternoon. LOL.  The good old days!  

I got transferred out of NY before getting the Black Belt but he did say that I had the heart of a Black Belt but not the experience. So we settled for Brown.  The mention of the Brown Belt to a rather unstable perspective member who was angry because I was not happy with his scripture covered hooded robe he preached in and blocked my way out of the apartment with "I know Karate" helped a lot.  I said that I had just come from my own Brown Belt class and just kindly stared into his eyes.  He let me pass.  Then he went ballistic. 

Anyway, just for fun and to honor my best life teacher because I can...

  I witnessed Sensei Ochai do this several times and it is genuine and extremely dangerous. He did not allow a student to be under his sword ever that I knew of. .  He always asked his son to do the demonstration with him. 

 When sparing with him once, he hit me and failed to acknowledge it as required. He stopped and said "Mr Diehl, I got you."  Unwisely and before thinking I said, "I did not see it."  Oops.... We quietly returned to sparing and within a second or two he had his foot up against my cheek and slowly moved my head to the side as he said, "Mr. Diehl...you see that?"  lol.  

"Yes, Sensei"

Don't Try This at Home

Anyone actually have another human being, in the church or out who qualified as your best teacher and example? Anyone get your through tough times or listen well?