Crackpot Prophet Tries To Hint Loma Armstrong Dreamed About Him Starting A Second Endtime Work

California has always been known as the land of fruits and nuts, and when it comes to a certain self-appointed Church of God leader, the nuttiness just gets worse by the day. No one could have ever imagined that a resentful lay member would self-appoint himself as the end-time leader of a splinter group. Stung by the fact that not one single Church of God ever made the decision to ordain him, he has had to invent all kinds of atrocious claims to legitimize himself with the Church of God movement. From dubious "theological" diplomas from a diploma mill in India to the dubious double blessing by Gaylyn Bonjour, the outlandish claims continue to pile up like bodily deposits in an outhouse.

This time, the Great Bwana has made the outlandish claim that Loma Armstrong may have dreamed about him starting an end time work.

When believers read about dreams in the Hebrew scriptures, they realize that God has actually used them.

But, some in the various COGs have commented that they do not care to know about dreams in this century.

Do dreams and prophets have any place in the Christian Church today?

Did any dreams precede the start of the old Radio Church of God? What about the Continuing Church of God (which did not officially form as a declared entity until December 28, 2012)?

I had a couple of dreams prior to the start of the Continuing Church of God, and also someone I did not know, who lived in New Zealand, had one prior to that start as well. 

 

Though many discount all dreams, many also forget that Herbert W. Armstrong believed that his wife Loma D. Armstrong had a dream from God, although it took him some years to accept the validity of it:

Within 30 or 60 days after our marriage God spoke to my wife in what might have been an intense unusual dream, or a vision — but it was years later before we came to realize that this really was a message from God. (Armstrong HW. Brethren and Co-worker letter, November 28, 1956)

One night my wife had a dream so vivid and impressive it overwhelmed and shook her tremendously. It was so realistic it seemed more like a vision. For two or three days afterward everything else seemed unreal — as if in a daze — and only this extraordinary dream seemed real.

In her dream she and I were crossing the wide intersection, only a block or two from our apartment, where Broadway diagonally crosses Sheridan Road. Suddenly there appeared an awesome sight in the sky above. It was a dazzling spectacle — the sky filled with a gigantic solid mass of brilliant stars, shaped like a huge banner. The stars began to quiver and separate, finally vanishing. She called my attention to the vanishing stars, when another huge grouping of flashing stars appeared, then quivering, separating, and vanishing like the first.

As she and I, in her dream, looked upward at the vanishing stars, three large white birds suddenly appeared in the sky between us and the vanishing stars. These great white birds flew directly toward us. As they descended nearer, she perceived that they were angels.

“Then,” my wife wrote a day or two after the dream, in a letter to my mother which I have just run across among old family pictures, “it dawned on me that Christ was coming, and I was so happy I was just crying for joy. Then suddenly I thought of Herbert and was rather worried.”

She knew I had evidenced very little religious interest, although we had attended a corner church two or three times.

Then it seemed that, from among these angels in her dream, that, “Christ descended from among them and stood directly in front of us.

At first I was a little doubtful and afraid of how He would receive us, because I remembered we had neglected our Bible study and had our minds too much on things apart from His interests. But as we went up to Him, He put His arms around both of us, and we were so happy! I thought people all over the world had seen Him come. As far as we could see, people were just swarming into the streets at this broad intersection. Some were glad and some were afraid.

“Then it seemed He had changed into an angel. I was terribly disappointed at first, until he told me Christ was really coming in a very short time.”

At that time, we had been going quite regularly to motion – picture theatres. She asked the angel if this were wrong. He replied Christ had important work for us to do, preparing for His coming — there would be no time for “movies .” (Those were the days of the “silent” pictures.) Then the angel and the whole spectacle seemed to vanish, and she awakened, shaken and wondering!

In the morning, she told me of her dream. I was embarrassed. I didn’t want to think about it, yet I was afraid to totally dismiss it. I thought of a logical way to evade it myself, and still solve it. …

Do not hastily ascribe a dream to God. True, the Bible shows that God has spoken to His own chosen servants by this means of communication — primarily in the Old Testament, and before the writing of the Bible was completed. But most dreams mean nothing. And false prophets have misled people by telling false dreams, representing their dreams to be the Word of God (Jeremiah 23, where God says, “I am against prophets who recount lying dreams, leading my people astray with their lies and their empty pretensions, though I never sent them, never commissioned them” — verse 32, Moffatt translation).

Certainly I did not ascribe this dream to God. It made me feel a little uncomfortable at the time, and I was anxious to forget it — which I did for some years. I was twenty – five at the time. God left me to my own ways for five more years. But when I was age thirty, He began to deal with me in no uncertain terms… (The Autobiography of Herbert W. Armstrong, 1973, pp. 187,193-194).

Loma and Herbert W. Armstrong were married in 1917. They were specifically told that they would have a work to do. Furthermore, the bright lights in the dream may have had to do with doing a work (cf. Matthew 5:16)–a work that seemed to vanish and return (flash). 

 

Thus, there was a dream from God given to a woman in the 20th century that preceded the start of the old Radio Church of God that Herbert W. Armstrong led. The Radio Church of God represented the start of the Philadelphia era and the Philadelphian work–a work that is not finished (cf. Matthew 24:14-15)–and Herbert W. Armstrong claimed that a dream given to his wife was from God, prior to the start of the Philadelphia era.

Who knew the crackpot prophet from Grover Beach/Arroyo Grande was the "work that is not finished". See, I told you it just gets nuttier and nuttier!

Now, consider that since the Philadelphia era was raised up after Loma Armstrong’s dream, a question to ponder is, would God do anything similar to point to the continuation of the end-time COG remnant of the Philadelphians? 

 

Consider that in Loma Armstrong’s dream that there were two sets of flashing stars–there were two parts to the dream. Herbert W. Armstrong is now dead and there was a pause between the work God had him to do and the completion of the final phase of the work to finally fulfill Matthew 24:14 (cf. Isaiah 29:14).

Herbert W. Armstrong mentioned the dream from time to time publicly, here are two nearly identical accounts:

I’m usually pretty skeptical about God speaking to anyone today in visions or dreams. God speaks to us thru His Son, Jesus Christ — the WORD of God — and the Bible is the written Word. I didn’t really believe it then, 38 years ago, but subsequent events have verified that God did speak to my wife at that time, shortly after we were married, revealing thru an angel that He was calling us to the mission of WARNING the world of the fast-approaching END OF THIS WORLD, the Coming of Jesus Christ, and the world-ruling Kingdom of God. At the time I was unconverted, not bothering to attend church, interested only in business and making money. I was embarrassed — a little awed — but immediately tried to put it out of my mind. But at age 30 God took away my business, struck me down, took away my idol of money-making and business prestige. (Armstrong HW. Co-worker letter, November 25, 1955) 

 

I’m usually pretty skeptical about God speaking to anyone today in visions or dreams. God speaks to us thru His Son, Jesus Christ — the WORD of God — and the Bible is the written Word. I didn’t really believe it then, 38 years ago, but subsequent events have verified that God did speak to my wife at that time, shortly after we were married, revealing thru an angel in a vision that He was calling us to the mission of WARNING the world of the fast- approaching END OF THIS WORLD, the coming of Jesus Christ, and the world-ruling Kingdom of God. At that time I was unconverted, not bothering to attend church, interested only in business and making money. I was embarrassed — a little awed — but immediately tried to put it out of my mind. But at age 30 God took away my business, struck me down, took away my idol of money-making and business prestige. (Armstrong HW. Co-worker letter, February 21, 1956) 

 

Notice that the dream was to go until the end of the world and the coming of Jesus–since Herbert W. Armstrong has been dead since January 16, 1986–if the dream was from God then, does it not make sense that the second half of the dream would be fulfilled by another? Like in the 21st century? We in the Continuing Church of God are fulfilling that second part of the stars.

The bullshit just keeps piling up:

Perhaps it should be mentioned, Herbert W. Armstrong had more information about what I am referring to as the first set of stars in the dream. He wrote:

It was a dazzling spectacle … People by the hundreds came running into this broad intersection looking up to see the strange phenomena … A vast multitude of eyes were upon us … I have only come to believe that this dream was a bonafide call from God in the light of subsequent events. (Armstrong HW. The Autobiography of Herbert W. Armstrong, 9th installment. Plain Truth, August 1958, p. 18).

Eyes of a vast multitude suggest that the dream was saying, that the work to be done was to have a witness to many. This happened with the old Radio and Worldwide Church of God under Herbert W. Armstrong’s leadership in the 20th century. The second set of stars in the dream, which he did not mention in the August 1958 Plain Truth, article, but did in his published Autobiography, may pertain to what I have called, for years, The Final Phase of the Work. But even if it had applicability to the ministry of Herbert W. Armstrong only, the dream, which shortly before his death he confirmed he believed was from God (per Aaron Dean, who I discussed this with on October 30, 2015), shows that one did precede the Church of God work he was involved in. 

Consider that Herbert W. Armstrong concluded that his wife Loma’s dream was from God. He also believed the first part of it had to do with the start of the Philadelphia era of the Church of God via the Radio Church of God. He did not discuss the fulfillment of the second part of the dream directly, however he taught another work would be done.

Consider that since Herbert W. Armstrong did not teach that the second part of his wife Loma’s dream was fulfilled and that he also taught a greater work was going to happen after his death. It is greater because it will fulfill Matthew 24:14, etc. That is the work that we in the ContinuingChurch of God are leading (see The Final Phase of the Work and Preparing for the ‘Short Work’ and The Famine of the Word). It appears that the second part of Loma D. Armstrong’s dream was pointing to the Continuing Church of God–the group that best represents the remnant of the Philadelphian portion of the Church of God. As far as radio and new doors in television and other media, check out the CCOG Multimedia page.

Bob Thiel and his little group are NOT a second work and are not here to complete any "work" that Herbert never finished. These are just more self-aggrandizing lies that Bob continues to tell in order to legitimize his apostate ministry.

The Armstrongist god has to be the weakest god that anyone could invent. Why would a supreme God need some self-appointed fool from the middle of California to redeem humankind with some kind of final work? That's a direct spit in the face to the hundreds of millions of Christians down through the ages who have lived and died in faith.

Imagine the Christians currently being slaughtered in Nigeria who, if only they were in the right church, their deaths would not be in vain. After all, they are only so-called Christians.

These very simple words from Romans condemn the lying false prophet masquerading as an agent of truth:

"For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites" Romans 16:18 

The comment made the other day from a reader here perfectly describes Bob Thiel and his insatiable appetite for attention:

Bob isn't a COG minister. He's a COG layman who worships COG ministry, and who deeply resents the fact that no COG minister would ordain him into that ministry, so he has invented Gaylon Bonjour's mythical double-blessing and has filled his brain with delusions and dreams of prophethood. His responses are pathetic, but they aren't saddening, they are infuriating, as he seeks to ruin other people's lives by turning them away from Jesus and toward Bob.

 

 

 

Cult Explosion (1980)

 

Cult Explosion looks at religions groups considered by some to be cults include Hare Krishna, the Manson Family, the People's Temple, Scientology, Christian Science, Unity, Worldwide Church of God, Jehovah Witness, the Latter-Day Saints, the Unification Church, and Transcendental Meditation

Oh, Noes!!!!!!!!! Gary Leonard And The Satanic Hoard On This Blog Are Picking On Me! What Ever Shall I do???????????

 

Ghastly days! Whatever shall I do now that the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu Thiel has written another screed about me and the reader/commenters on this blog? The world is a terrible place, and this blog is making the Great Bwana's life a living hell. Who knew?

Anyway, the sun is shining brightly here in Southern CA, and life is good, though apparently not so good in Grover Beach, CA, where God's most incredible COG leader to ever walk this green earth channel's dreams and visions from some unknown entity he deems worthy of telling people about. 

The entity fed this hilarious headline into Bob's amazing brain early this morning, "Things Satan does not want you to believe are not believed by all but the Philadelphian remnant"

In his mind, big ol'meanie Satan is on the warpath against him and his perfect little church, the best embodiment of 1st-century Christianity the world has ever seen. The creature he calls "satan" has apparently taken over the minds of everyone on this blog and has directly mind-melded with us to pick on Bobby and his amazing "work".

Satan does not want people to be in the Kingdom of God. He does not want Matthew 24:14 since it will be a countdown for his end. 

 

He wants to dissuade you and others from being in that Kingdom or supporting the most faithful proclamation work. 

 

How does he do that? 

 

Through lies and false witnesses.

This entity he calls "satan" is out to get everyone, including everyone on this blog, though apparently it has already won that battle. At least in his mind's eye.

While you might think you are immune to Satan, remember that the New Testament teaches:

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, (1 Peter 5:8-9) 

 

Satan does not want you to truly have faith in God or His word.

I think the verse he quotes above encapsulates why we do this blog. The Church of God is filled with devouring lions seeking to destroy all they come into contact with through heretical doctrine and outright drivel they deem God-inspired.

Now the fun begins:

...throughout history, God’s true church has been spoken against in many places. Notice confirmation of that as far back as the Book of Acts where the true church is called “this sect”:

22 … concerning this sect, we know that it is spoken against everywhere. (Acts 28:22) 

 

Some of Satan’s allies at Banned by HWA website and other places continue to post lies about those of us in Continuing Church of God (CCOG) as well as other COGs. 

 

Yes, some who claimed to be with us in the old Worldwide Church of God, as well as some who claimed to be with us in the CCOG have turned aside and became false accusers. The Apostle John ran into similar issues as he wrote:

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. (1 John 2:19) 

Bwana Bob does not understand that many of us here"went out" from the lies and falsehoods of heretical doctrines and found true rest in the One that the church claimed it was following. The ministry in the Church of God was a cesspool of bad actors - though I will say there were a lot of good men who tried to do their best over the decades and who were actual agents of grace to church members. Sadly, most of those men were gradually beaten down or driven out by the corrupt leadership over them. There was nothing godly about church leadership.

That is consistent with Satan’s hope as he is called the “accuser of the brethren” which he does do day and night (Revelation 12:10), so it is no great surprise if his lying human assistants spread lies regularly. 

 

If you are not part of a COG (Church of God), Satan hopes you will dismiss the true Christian faith as a false cult–this is something he and his followers have done throughout history.

The true Christian faith is NOT to be found in the misnamed "continuing" Church of God. It isn't there and never will be until Bob Thiel repents of his lies and delusions of grandeur. 

Jesus, Himself, said that people who claimed to believe the Bible often denounced God’s prophets:

11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. (Matthew 5:11-12) 

Bob, you are NOT a prophet of God. You have never been one and never will be one. That is an immutable fact.  

Notice the following evil that was posted at Banned by HWA:

Bob Thiel has lied to us from day one about God speaking to him in dreams, that he is the only COG doing the work, that he is a prophet, that he is Elisha, Elijah, Zephaniah, Joshua, and many other appropriated personalities (about the only thing left to call himself is Legion). Has Bob ever apologized and will he EVErRapologize for lying to us? 

 

Now the above is false witness from Gary Leonard (the webmaster of the above site and the one who posted that). 

You are gaslighting your naive followers if you deny you have appropriated the names and characteristics of the prophets mentioned above and others where you claim you are the modern-day reincarnation. You are not even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence with any of them

Satan hopes you will believe lies. 

 

One of the Ten Commandments is, “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” (Exodus 20:16). 

 

Yet repeatedly, Gary Leonard has borne false witness. 

 

There is no point in me, Bob Thiel, apologizing for telling the truth.

And yet, here you are, doing it once AGAIN! 

The Bible, which the Great Bwana leads us to believe he thoroughly believes in, has this to say about the lying Church of God false leaders and false prophets:

“Beware of the false prophets, [teachers] who come to you dressed as sheep [appearing gentle and innocent], but inwardly are ravenous wolves. Matt 7:15 Amplified Bible

“Be wary of false preachers who smile a lot, dripping with practiced sincerity. Chances are they are out to rip you off some way or other. Don’t be impressed with charisma; look for character. Who preachers are is the main thing, not what they say. A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. These diseased trees with their bad apples are going to be chopped down and burned. Matt 7: 15-16 Message Bible

Notice the following gaslighting by how he deviously uses certain words to dance around what he really believes:

The second is that I never said I or the CCOG were the only ones doing the work. What I have said is that the CCOG best represents that Philadelphia remnant and that we are leading the final phase of the work. 

 

Gary Leonard and those who believe his lies need to repent.

Of all the things I may have to repent of, calling you out as a liar and false prophet is NOT one of them and NEVER will be. You are exactly like Dave Pack and Gerald Flurry, who are also proven liars and false prophets.

He continues on trotting out Gaylyn Bonjour as legitimizing his prophethood status by reportedly asking God to give Bob a double blessing and then has this to say:

And that includes what I have written about him, dreams, and the prophet matter. My teaching about what happened is accurate and not false. I have not lied about this. 

 

The Book of Proverbs teaches:

16 The lazy man is wiser in his own eyes

Than seven men who can answer sensibly. (Proverbs 26:16) 

 

Satan hopes that YOU will be lazy and not believe. Satan hopes YOU will not take the time to check out the truth on this. Satan does NOT want YOU to accept that God really has been providing and fulfilling dreams in the 21st century.

John D had this to say about you, Bob Thiel, on the Church of God Perspective blog:

Bob Thiel wants to pick on anyone and everyone in order to justify his own beliefs and vaunted ego. However, the fact is that he is a liar, he does not care for the truth, or accuracy for that matter, and he constantly compares himself to others.

12 We don’t dare class or compare ourselves with some of the people who advertise themselves. In measuring themselves against each other and comparing themselves with each other, they are simply stupid.

~ 2Co 10:12 (CJB)  

 

Bob Thiel Is Still a Liar and False Prophet

John D also had this to say about you:

Lies of the Prophet 

 

I’ve already discussed more than once the big one. If he is a prophet, then what is his message? A prophet, after all, is one who utters or speaks for God. So, let’s see what the message is! Lay out your “prophecies”, Dr Bob, so that those with discernment can see! 

 

All along, his “credentials” have been exaggerations of different events. For example, he makes a big deal of being anointed, but he was anointed for something completely different, even he has admitted before. He makes a big deal of the anointing minister calling for a “double portion” of God’s Spirit. 

 

OK, but so what? If I am anointed for a head cold, can I really take that as a validation of something completely unrelated? Even if the one doing the anointing has no clue about the matter? Does God really work that way? 

 

Well, now he is claiming to be “ordained”. The lid is off, folks! He has clearly crossed the boundary of stepping on the line between truth and fiction and proclaimed a complete lie! 

 

No one has ordained you, Dr. Bob. Get over yourself! 

 

In fact, how many prophets in the Bible were ever ordained? Frankly, I can only think of one, Elisha, who is also the one whom Thiel likes to compare himself with. Even then, it was a prophet ordaining a prophet, not a priest or even a Levite! 

 

There is a good reason for that, in fact. Prophets always came from outside of the system because their primary function was to sound a warning when the system itself broke down. The civil government was supposed to keep the religious order in check, and vice versa. When both failed, God sent prophets to warn and rebuke. 

 

As a consequence, prophets worked outside of the system. They did not break away and create their own country or their own organization for worship. Would You Hire These Liars to Teach Your Children? Some people obviously worship a “god” who approves of liars.

Wallace Smith, a minister in the Living Church of God had this to say about you, Bob:

Perhaps it should be said that I am aware of individuals who claim “dreams” which they hope to convince others are such “special revelations.” Of course, we are to test such things against other criteria and, again, all I have seen continually fall short when they are examined. (That, or the claim is beyond examination, making it unable to be tested.) 

 

As one example, I’ve heard of one who claims that he dreamed God would exalt him above the leaders of the Church when he, supposedly, had no beef against them at that time. Yet, years ago, at the very time this fellow claims he had the dream, this same individual personally expressed to me his beef and his intense frustration that Church leaders and the Council of Elders did not accept his interpretations of prophecy. Such a dream during such days strikes me not so much as prophetic as very, very human. (I should add that I mentioned to him at the time my concern for his attitude about the Church’s leadership, and maybe I could have done more to help him see it. I don’t know.) About that same time Mr. Dibar Apartian warned me over lunch, as did others, that the fellow apparently thought himself a prophet, many years before he left the Church and began claiming to be just that. Again, for such a one such “dreams” of personal glory seem easy to imagine — given simple human nature, it would almost be surprising if there weren’t such dreams accompanying such attitudes and personal ideas. Even ignoring other factors (and, wow, in that case are there “other factors”) that make it all the more clear, I’m sorry but such “revelations” are simply not convincing, and don’t even come close to fitting Mr. Armstrong’s clear, biblically informed definition.  Plain truth about “Prophets” from Herbert W. Armstrong

The very church that Bob Thiel apostatized from knows him to be a false prophet and a liar. That's pretty damning! Even worse for Bob,  Dibar Apartian knew Bob was not a prophet, and yet Bob claims Apartian fully endorsed him as a prophet. Bob continues to be a liar. 

Wallace Smith also says this in another article:

"Other titles have come and gone… Various Self-Appointed Prophets and Luminaries of Imagined & Alternate Realities (L.I.A.R.s) have declared or implied that they have been given the title of or are the prophesied individual Elijah, Elisha, Zerubabbel (son of Shealtiel, though I wonder why one prefers the spelling in the Catholic Douay Rheims: “Salathiel”; interesting, that), Joshua, et al. Maybe you have heard a title I haven’t. If so, I’m not sure I want to know… 

 

That none of these who consider themselves Prophets actually are any of these people or have any right to any sort of title is one thing. But the point of post (which I thought I would never get to!) is that it is yet another technique and not just a personal obsession. Sure, it generally represents a delusionary mindset and an incredible ego, but it also adds a level of “excitement” to the Self-Appointed One’s self-appointed “ministry”: Wow, this is a guy spoken of in the Bible, itself! More importantly, it has the potential to lend an authority to the individual’s words that neither the individual nor the words have earned."

And a little later, this: 

"It is not that there are no titles in the Bible and it is not that the Bible cannot make a claim about an individual in our day. It certainly can and it certainly does. But how terribly badly some lust after being such an individual! In some cases they must search the Scriptures seeking out what they can apply to themselves. In other cases, they simply seem to have an ego and pride that the devil can take advantage of, “helping” them to “see” themselves in God’s own words (and in some cases, in the words of heathen “prophecies,” as well) over time. 

 

It is a useful technique for Non-Prophets because increasing their credibility—being taken seriously—is vitally important to them. However, they have not earned the sort of credibility that justifies their self-declared “Prophet” status. Consequently, they must seek out other sources of credibility that can give them a short cut. For instance, it would be difficult to earn the sort of credibility the Two Witnesses will eventually have when God empowers them (cf. Rev. 11:3). Clearly, Revelation says the Two Witnesses are a couple of fellow who should be listened to." 

 

"Not all Non-Prophets feel the need to take a title on themselves, to be sure (I won’t speak to the temptation they may have to do so, as I do not know) as it takes a really special level of self-delusion (or, on the flip side of the coin, a special level of confidence in one’s powers of con-artistry). Nevertheless, it is a technique that is on display out there in the Parade of Self-Appointed Ones time continues to present to us."  Techniques of Non-Prophets: Got Me a Title!

Bob's hilarious screed continues on about how we mock his dreams and revelations he channels from the entity he follows and then says this:

Those who believe the false assertions at the Banned by HWA website are among those that love and practices lies. 

 

Those who do so should repent. 

 

Jesus taught:

44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. (Matthew 5:44-45) 

 

Gary Leonard remains in my prayers.

Anyway, what Satan continues to hope is that you will believe lies, not believe that God actually has sent fulfilled dreams to those in the Continuing Church of God, and that you will not look into the details to see if it is so–like the Bereans of old did in Acts 17:10-11. 

 

If you are not part of CCOG, Satan wants you to stay away from it. 

 

He does not want you to be dedicated or noble enough to see if what is written here (and in the related links) is really true.

Heck, even God wants you to stay away from the improperly named "continuing" Church of God. 

I have no fear of the god that Bob Thiel follows. We will continue to call him out as the liar and false prophet that he is.

Cheers