Church Festivals and "God's Calendar": Oy veh!

Oy vey (Yiddish: אױ װײ‎) or oy vey ist mir is a Yiddish phrase expressing dismay or exasperation. Also spelled oy vay, oy veh, or oi vey, and often abbreviated to oy, the expression may be translated as, "oh, woe!" or "woe is me!" Its Hebrew equivalent is oy vavoy (אוי ואבוי, ój waävój).^[1][2]

When I was a mere puppy in the ministry, age 25 at the most, and knew all things pertaining to life, death  and the hear after, just ask me, I had the wonderful experience of having to drive Dr. Hoeh out to a farm in Ohio where the local deacon was stirring up the pot in the congregation on all things Passover.  If I recall properly he felt it was being kept on the wrong day, at the wrong time in the wrong way and was getting more and more militant about it at services.  Dr Hoeh talked with him as I fell asleep bored to tears and wondering what the hell it all mattered anyway.  Nothing was going to get solved and the scriptures weren't exactly  clear about it all or we'd not be here in the first place.  Over the years, "How and When to keep the Passover" or other Holy days for that matter was one of life's more annoying experiences in the Church.  Eventually the deacon threatened to call 60 minutes on me , which was popular at the time, and I had to call the police to come to  services to calm things down.  It was nuts. Very nuts.

 My FIRST of many stressful welcome to the ministry experiences with WCG.  He left of course and took whoever he could with him.  That's how it works in the Church.  It was  the 70's,  and it was all downhill from there with WCG history, which can be loosely defined as "one damn thing after the next."

I wish I had known that the Pentateuch, not written by any Moses, but rather various authors JEDP (Defined nicely on this site) documented 5 different Festival Calendars depending on who wrote the text.  And here all along I thought God wrote the rules and they were perfectly clear if you just had the right combination to the safe and pieces of God's puzzle.  

Enjoy... http://contradictionsinthebible.com/festival-calendar

There are 5 different festival calendars in the Pentateuch, each one originating from a once separate and independent source:

1. Exodus 23:14-17 (from the Elohist source)
2. Exodus 34:18-26 (from the Yahwist)
3. Deuteronomy 16:1-17 (from the Deuteronomist)
4. Leviticus 23 (from the Priestly source, accredited to the Holiness Code)
5. Numbers 28-29 (also from the pen of P)

I am presently going through these different calendars and will be posting their contradictions and differences over the next few days/weeks. I have already noted a few of these contradictions, those between the earliest sources and Deuteronomy (#109-110, #111, #112, #113, #117, #118, and #168). However, there are a few that I missed and I will additionally be adding the contradictions between the earliest sources and the late Priestly source, as well as those between D and P.

Here, in this initial introductory post, I merely wish to reproduce each of the different calendars in the broadest view possible, and in chronological order—that is from the oldest textual source forward, not from the narrative chronology as these sources now stand in the redacted text.

1) Exodus 23:14-17 (E): 3 pilgrimage festivals to local altars that must be observed by all males

1. Festival of Unleavened Bread (7 day festival in the month of Abib; 7th day is the pilgrimage (Ex 13:6)
2. Harvest Festival (first fruits/grains harvested)
3. Festival of Gathering (end of year harvest)

2) Exodus 34:18-26 (J): 3 pilgrimage festivals to local altars that must be observed by all males

1. Festival of Unleavened Bread (7 days in the month of Abib)
2. Festival of Weeks = Harvest (#168)
3. Festival of Gathering

3) Deuteronomy 16:1-17 (D)

1. Passover + 6 days of Unleavened Bread (specific day of Abib still not specified; Passover must be celebrated at Jerusalem, which is now a pilgrimage festival (#117); Unleavened Bread no longer a pilgrimage festival; Passover is now absorbed as the 1st day of unleavened bread, reducing the Festival of Unleavened Bread to 6 days)
2. Festival of Weeks (now delayed 7 weeks from early E date; now a pilgrimage festival to Jerusalem)
3. Festival of Booths (7 days at Jerusalem; transformation of Festival of Gathering)

4) Leviticus 23 (P): Yahweh’s Appointed Times & Sacred Assemblies

1. Passover & Unleavened Bread (14th & 15th of Abib; 7 days total (=D) or Passover + 7 days (cf. Ex 12:17-20)?; Passover no longer a pilgrimage festival to Jerusalem, but now (again, see E) at home; Unleavened Bread reclaimed a pilgrimage festival; now proclaimed an “eternal law”; burnt-offerings to Yahweh for 7 days, not specified)
2. Festival of Weeks (now proclaimed an “eternal law”; grain & burnt offerings to Yahweh at the first reaping of harvest AND 7 sabbatical weeks later (i.e., start counting on the Sabbath), on the 50th day, more grain & burnt offerings to Yahweh, plus sin and peace offerings)
3. Horn Blast Holy Day (1st day of 7th month; offerings to Yahweh)
4. Day of Purgation (10th day of 7th month; an “eternal law”; offerings to Yahweh, see Lev 16)
5. Festival of Booths (15th day of 7th month; an “eternal law”; burnt-offerings for 7 days; 8th day a sacred assembly)

5) Numbers 28-29 (P): Yahweh’s Sacrifices

1. The tamid (twice daily “continual” burnt-offering of one-year old lambs, in the morning and in the evening)
2. Sabbath Day (burnt-offering of 2 lambs w/accompanying grain-offering + the tamid)
3. New Moon, 1st of the month (burnt-offering of 2 bulls, 1 ram, 7 lambs w/accompanying grain-offering + sin-offering of 1 goat + the tamid)
4. Passover & Unleavened Bread (14th & 15th of Abib; Unleavened Bread a pilgrimage festival for 7 days, each day a burnt-offering of 2 bulls, 1 ram, 7 lambs w/accompanying grain-offering + sin-offering of 1 goat + the tamid)
5. Day of Firstfruits = Festival of Weeks (pilgrimage festival; burnt-offering of 2 bulls, 1 ram, 7 lambs w/accompanying grain-offering + sin-offering of 1 goat + the tamid)
6. Horn Blast Holy Day (1st day of 7th month; burnt-offering of 1 bull, 1 ram, 7 lambs w/accompanying grain-offering + burnt-offering for New Moon + sin-offering of 1 goat + thetamid)
7. Day of Purgation (10th day of 7th month; burnt-offering of 1 bull, 1 ram, 7 lambs w/accompanying grain-offering + burnt-offering for Atonement (= Lev 16) + sin-offering of 1 goat + the tamid)
8. Festival of Booths (15th day of 7th month; pilgrimage festival; 7 days of burnt-offerings: day 1: 13 bulls, 2 rams, 14 lambs w/accompanying grain-offering + a sin-offering of 1 goat + the tamid; day 2: 12 bulls, 2 rams, 14 lambs; day 3: 11 bulls, 2 rams, 14 lambs, etc.; day 8 declared a sacred assembly: burnt-offering of 1 bull, 1 ram, 7 lambs w/accompanying grain-offering + sin-offering of 1 goat + the tamid)

As is visible from this detailed list of the Pentateuch’s festival calendars, the two Priestly calendars, most likely from the post-exilic era, express a heightened interest in and concern for the cult—as we would expect from this Aaronid priestly guild. Not only are the lunar dates of these festivals precisely articulated, but so too, at least in Numbers, the actual sacrifices to be performed.

The reader can additionally see where there are minor discrepancies and even contradictions between these sources’ calendars. We will look at these in more detail over the next few posts. I think I will proceed by first looking at the variations, discrepancies, and contradictions in the Passover and Unleavened Bread Festival accounts, and from there the accounts of the Festival of Weeks, etc.

http://contradictionsinthebible.com/what-is-the-bible/

PCG Wants Members to Know They Have "Sick Trusting Minds"

Here is how the Philadelphia Church of "god" wants its members to look at themselves as:

“Note carefully: our human minds are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked,” Gerald Flurry wrote. “We cannot trust our thinking. That is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Satan’s nature permeates human intellect and human reasoning. We cannot trust our own minds” (From the Beginning). 

The heart is incurably sick—and only God really recognizes that! Only God’s Spirit can expose human nature. You have to pray to see yourself as God sees you—not as your human heart wants to see itself. 

We should never trust our own minds, but so often we do. And what happens? We become cursed (verse 5). Trusting sick human minds is what has made our whole world such a sick place! 

Don’t trust yourself! Don’t try to run your life your own way. Don’t trust your incredibly deceitful mind that is terminally ill—or you will be cursed!

Contrast that to what those who follow Jesus are referred to:

Colossians 3:12-17     

12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. 15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. 

Since the Philadelphia Church of God follows Moses, Habakkuk, Jeremiah, David, and all the other "heroes' of the Old Testament, they are at a total loss when it comes to Jesus.  Here are some other qualities that believers have that PCG members do not have:

1. Loving

You love your enemies, your neighbors, your family, and your friends. You aren’t afraid to love when others are withholding it. (1 John 4:8)

2. Forgiving

Grace is an inevitable quality of any Christ follower. While the rest of the world may show resentment and hold grudges, a legit Christian will always show grace and forgiveness. (Ephesians 4:32)

3. Selfless

You don’t think of yourself before others. In fact, you do the complete opposite. Your spirit is wired to put others before your own needs, wants and desires. Why? Because Jesus himself did the same thing. (Philippians 2:4)

4. Servanthood

You give and serve out of the abundance of your heart. Not only is your heart passionate about serving others, but its sole purpose is to serve others as Christ came to serve us. (Psalm 37:21)

5. Humility

Pride comes before the fall. If you don’t remember, pride itself is what sent satan to his lonely exile. Humility showcases a posture that is open to being molded, directed, and empowered by the Spirit of God. There is no such thing as a prideful example of Jesus. Why? Because pride isn’t an attribute that Jesus practices. (Matthew 23:12)

6. Driven

You don’t sit at home and bask in your own mess. Instead, your are a driven and goal-minded individual who seeks after the will of God. Your driven heart keeps you focused on God’s promises, his will, and his grace. (Proverbs 10:4)

7. Passion

You are passionate about Jesus, sharing the promises of God, and showcasing the living and breathing image of love. Settling for mediocrity is not something you’re willing to do. Your passion and zeal for the Lord takes you deeper into the character of God himself. (Colossians 3:23)

8. Compassion

Compassion is like a second language to any legit Christian. You bear the burdens of others, feel their pain, and do whatever you can to comfort those going through a tough time. (Galatians 6:2)

9. Patience

Patience is a true virtue of any true Christ follower. It’s easy to make quick decisions, but those who are truly grounded in the Word of God are prone to slowing down, seeking Godly wisdom, and pursuing the guidance of Christ. (Philippians 4:6)

10. Control

Self-control brings security and maturity to anyone’s life. And while some may see control as a flaw, Jesus views control and organization as a beautiful thing to practice when in a relationship with him. (Proverbs 25:28)

11. Kindness. 

If you don’t have anything nice to say, then don’t say anything at all. Kindness is a beautiful attribute of any legit Christian. Not only does kindness showcase a vibrant reflection of Christ, but it also allows you to personally reflect an image of his being. (Proverbs 11:17)

12. Joy

Life is too short to be spent in sorrow. As Christians, we are called to rejoice in all things. No matter what you are going through in life, choosing joy will always be the way of a legit Christian. (Philippians 4:4)

13. Peace

Don’t look to stir up controversy, dissension, or even strife. Seek to be a peacemaker in all things. While the rest of the world looks to make their point, seek to bring peace through the love and grace of Christ. (Romans 12:18) 

-Jarrid Wilson   13 Qualities of a Legit Christian

The church has always held members to the standard of being worthless worms, devoid of any redeeming qualities whatsoever.  Church members have never been considered good enough for a loving God to love unconditionally.  The more members are beat down, the more submissive they will be.  Just take a look at almost every single letter HWA wrote to the membership.  Church members were constantly at fault for something. Don't ever dare use your mind to actually think, to do so lets Satan gain control.

Because PCG chooses not to follow Jesus and instead places their allegiance upon OT hero's, it stands to reason that they need to tell their members that they have incurably sick human minds.  Just look at their leaders!

UCG: Are the fields no longer white for harvest?

UPDATED:  Video is back online:

Several United Church of God members sent me links to the sermon preached at their Christmas Winter Family Weekend.  The title of the sermon was "The fields are ripe for harvest."  The church has always taken this as the reason to preach the "gospel" because people were desperate to hear the "truth" that the church imagined they were proclaiming. In addition to witnessing the world the "true" message, they were also gaining new tithe-paying members.  The more members, the more money available to do the "final push" in getting our the message of the kingdom.

UCG imagines itself as that purveyor of truth to a lost and desperately searching world.  One of the reasons for the yearly Christmas Family Weekend is that it is a witness to the heathen Christmas observing pagans who worship Nimrod in the highly decorated hotel that holds their party weekend in.

When the various UCG members sent the link, it was available to the world to see as a witness to the "truth."  One would think that the sermons of God's true ministers would be worthy for the world to hear, but no. UCG has restricted the access to the sermon.

The UCG members who have sent this link have all mentioned how the sermon was further proof that UCG was changing many of its current teachings to become more "palatable" to the general public.  That was one of the big complaints when COGWA split off to start their own group.  They felt the UCG big boys were systematically changing doctrines in order to become more mainstream, much like their previous organization had done.

Thought you might find this interesting! Here is absolute proof the UCG is going mainstream evangelical in order to attract new members. Bible Study given at their Winter Family Weekend. COGWA said this would happen and used it as a reason for their split.

https://www.ucg.org/sermons/the-fields-are-white-for-harvest

Apparently, the fields are no longer ripe, or they just don't care.  Or, the cat got let out of the bag and they are struggling to get it back in.  Time will tell what actually UCG is up to.  Just as many of them lied when they worked for WCG while denying that changes were coming, they are doing the same thing now.  Can they really be trusted to tell the truth any more?


SaveSave

Reasons vs. Excuses

The Bear (The Big Dipper)

Recently I posted a bit more on, w my perspectives on the Astro-theological nature of many of the stories and prophecies in the Bible. Astro-theology is based on the concept of "as above, so below" where over time humans have seen the story they need to see and tell in the movement of the constellations thru the signs of the zodiac and along the ecliptic from season to season. I mostly do this to give a different perspective to all our background in the Bible as understood by the Churches of God and most others.   Most cultures have done this over thousands of years and the writers of the Old Testament and New, in particular the Book of Revelation were no exceptions. 

As I have said before, the night sky was the Netflix of the times.  It's where you got your stories and brought them down to earth to explain life and "all that up there" to yourself.  Job was challenged that if he was so smart could he do or know the following

Job 38:31-33

"Can you direct the movement of the stars--binding the cluster of the Pleiades or loosening the cords of Orion?

(we know today what binds this and Orion is not held by cords.)

Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear (The Big Dipper)  with its cubs?

(We know they bring forth themselves because the earth rotates which gives the impression of movement in the heavens when it is we who are moving)

Do you know the laws of the heavens? Can you set up God's dominion over the earth?

(We're getting there nicely)

We also know where snow , hail and rain come from and how they form. Contrary to Bob Thiel's archaic view that weather is still "God's way of trying to get our attention."  To which I have always said, "God has to try?"

Job 9:9

Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

Orion with Shield and Flaming Sword held high

(There are no chambers in the South. Only locations.  Arcturus, also called Alpha Boötis, one of the five brightest stars in the night sky, and the brightest star in the northern constellation Boötes, with an apparent visual magnitude of −0.05. It is an orange-coloured giant star 36.7 light-years from Earth. The Pleiades is visible star cluster and Orion is a Constellation of the Winter sky. Orion is probably also the Angel placed in the East with a flaming sword to keep Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden but I spare you. It never occurred to them evidently to sneak back from the North, South or West. Orion rises in the East.

The fact is that today all the challenges of the Book of Job, by God to Job are pretty well understood.  Today we'd have to challenge Job that if he was so smart, did he understand quarks, muons , the Cosmic Background Radiation and the double split experiment.  And aside from the average person who could care less, we do understand these things as well.

I was very sincerely sent a long paper on how the heavens DO explain the entire plan of God through the movement of the Sun and constellations through the Zodiac (Ecliptic) tell the story of our salvation and it was God who put it there for us to understand.  In my view, it was man who evinced the story of his salvation and theology by imagining what he thought he saw in the constellations , seasons and journey of the sun through the year with the light and dark cycles as well as times to plant and reap.

I know it is hard to accept, and can be argued until proverbial cows come home,  but the SUN is the original God Most High (Noon) in human history. It is the SUN that is born on Christmas day.  It is the Sun that takes away the darkness (sins) of the world at "Easter", when it comes up due East and the days are now longer than the nights at the Equinox (equal days/nights). Even the Pass-over over is when the SUN passes over this line in the seasons. 

I only include this final exchange to illustrate the conclusion of this exchange.

There are vast differences between REASONS and EXCUSES

In religion apologetics are the excuses of theology. It is when you simply can't admit to being mistaken about something Biblical and must keep it so to keep one's beliefs, which are not the same as truths, intact. IMHO

2000 years ago reasons given outside of Biblical perspectives were considered excuses to rebel against God as understood in that day.  With increased knowledge of how things actually are, excuses must yield to reasons to think outside the boxes of the past.  Just as 2000 years ago, those who asked "where is the promise of his coming" were called scoffers who would get theirs in time, so today we'd simply see they were noticing the obvious.  No one who notices Jesus has not returned "soon" after 2000 years cannot be called a scoffer. They are simply noticing what is evidently and obviously so. 

So it is with where many of our theological concepts and stories come from in reality.

On 12/23/2017 12:19 PM, denniscdiehl@aol.com wrote:

I am a great believer in the astro theological nature of many bible tales. I just don't believe the origin is God putting his plan in the constellations.

--------------------------------------- 

Dennis,

"If that is your belief, then please tell me what was God's intention for creating the heavens and universe? There MUST be a reason, for God does nothing without a purpose in mind."

-------------------------------

On 01/03/2018 12:07 PM, denniscdiehl@aol.com wrote:

"Actually we humans come up with the concept of "there must be a reason" etc. The fact is the universe and our evolution from ape ancestors to conscious of our mortality does not care and we are not special in it any more than earth is special will billions of them out there just being discovered. 

I don't believe in the existence of the bible God. That is a literary and human construct to help us cope . I don't believe it took a god to bring the universe, which may also be just one of billions to pass. It's a huge topic but I go with science on this stuff"

                                                                           

---

                                              Dennis,

"I'm sorry, but I didn't realize you were an atheist. Based on your website, I always thought you were part of the COG. With that in mind, I won't bother you any more. I have no desire or time to converse with anyone who doesn't believe in a Creator God.

Romans 1:19-2019 What can be known about God is clear to them because he has made it clear to them.
20 From the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly observed in what he made. As a result, people have no excuse. (GWN)
Dennis, you have NO excuse."

Exactly!  they are reasons......

COG False Prophet Claims "Perilous Times" Are Here As He Once Again Suffers Intense Persecution From So-called Anti-COG Blogs and Websites

Out favorite self-appointed false prophet is having another hissy-fit over the Painful Truth website calling him out for his lies and sophistry.

Of course, this is just a sure sign that Satan is on the march and is using all of us to persecuted God's one and only end time man.  No other COG minister is doing a bigger work that this guy.  No other man has held onto proper church governance and doctrines than this guy.  No other COG is being persecuted like Not-arrested, but almost arrested, Elisha, Elijah, Amos, Joshua, Habbakuk, Mayan guru, and closet-Catholic Bob Thiel.

The persecution of Not-arrested, but almost-arrest Thiel is so intense that it was foretold in Scriptures:

But those who hate what we stand for do not care. 

Jesus said:

10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you (Matthew 5:10-12)
12 Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 13 And you will be hated by all men for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved…” (Mark 13:12-13).
3 And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. 4 But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them. And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you (John 16:3-4).

Notice also the following prophecy:

1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

Bob Thiel is a liar.  He is not being persecuted for righteousness sake, he is being mocked because he is a self-appointed liar.  That is a fact that everyone knows, from Rod Meredith to Gaylon Bonjour, to the rest of the Churches of God.  The man is a fool.

Butt-hurt Bob continues with this:

The Painful Truth site is falsely convicting me of sin that I am not guilty of. They will not accept the truth, but instead spew out lies.

Do not believe them or others who put forth hate and falsehoods.

Butt-hurt Bob was incensed over this posting:

The Year Ahead. Bob Thiel and the ACOG’s.

One of the PT editors recently made this statement to me: “Bob Thiel is guilty of a shocking display of dishonesty and sophistry.” I confess to a similar sentiment, but as it is, Thiel, who is a peddler of Herbert Armstrong’s fictional and failed prophecies, is generally considered by the ACOG community as  a huckster and poses little threat if he is constantly challenged and kept in check. He certainly does not display the honesty or character of Ian Boyne, who allowed people to challenge his thoughts and his writings.

Just for the record, the Painful Truth does not attack those who hold a religious belief. Rather, we wish to expose those who we consider to be false teachers who live at the expense of others. Keep in mind always, that evil prevails when good people do nothing.

With this short article, we want to share with you our view about Bob Thiel’s malignant beliefs and what damage we can expect in the coming year. We would not have to do so if Thiel allowed comments at his website where we could challenge him and refute his writings. 

I am quite sure Butt-hurt's Bob's followers in Africa are very sincere people who want to do what is right, at least most of them probably do.  The problem lies in the FACT that Bob Thiel is a liar. God no more doubly blessed him through the hands of Galyon Bonjour than the nightmares of two different people in different parts of the world legitimized his self-appointed "ministry." Thiel is no more preaching "first century Christianity" than Dave Pack or Gerald Flurry are.  They are all liars that are deceiving the brethren.

The question that the Painful Truth posed for Bob still remains:

Can he, will he acknowledge his own insularity and excesses, or will he continue down the path of smug self-congratulation and vanity, never passing up an opportunity to destroy, debauch, devalue, and dehumanize a wide assortment of innocent people?

The Saddest Thing About Betrayal Is That It Never Comes From Your Enemies

A comment from the "Is it possible to have a true friendship with another in the Church of God?"

I was in LCG for years and had so many friends. I threw baby showers, bridal showers, cocktail parties, bbq's and endless dinner parties for my "friends". We traveled the world together, shared condos for the Feast of Tabernacles, went through pregnancies/births together and spent all of our social lives with one another (it is frowned upon in LCG to have friends that aren't in the church).

For me, it was all gone in a spit second. These people, who I thought genuinely loved and cared about me, turned their backs on me as soon as I was no longer in LCG. I was de-friended by people with reckless abandon (it sounds trite but it was hurtful). I would reach out to people and they would refuse to reply to my messages. I was shunned repeatedly when I'd run into long-time LCG friends in public. Suddenly, all these supposed "Christians" who were my "brothers and sisters" regarded me with more disgust than their superior asses view the "people in the world".

To this day, I can not conceive of how they twist things in their infantile minds to think that what they did to me was in any way "Christ-like". I mean seriously, can you imagine our Savior advocating such disgusting behavior? No way!

If you are reading this and you are in LCG you are no exception. If you leave you will lose all of your friends. You see, the relationships are CONDITIONAL. People in these churches appear to be incapable of grasping the concept of unconditional love (let alone mercy or forgiveness). If you are telling yourself, "nah, that would never happen to ME" you are so deceived. It would happen to you as it happened to me and many, many others.

My favorites were the "friends" that replied, "I want to be a pillar in the Kingdom so I love you, but..." or "you will always be my brother and I love you, but..."

Guess what LCGers, love is a VERB. It requires action not just words.

I have never met a more fake, self-righteous group of idiots in my life. I am desperately ashamed that I wasted over ten years of my life with those people.

I fear for them because they will reap what they have sown and more importantly because they do not know the love of Christ.

LCG is the antithesis of the COG.

Bible Readers... The Danger of Being Piously Convicted and Marginally Informed

From my perspective, Isaac Asimov had it correct when he noted that the Bible is the best evidence against itself. Many Christians are excellent Bible READERS. Minister types in this area excellent Bible READERS. They can jump from one scripture to the next with finesse. For any scholar you could quote, they would quote one that confirmed their perspective. However, in some areas of the country you really just have to quote the Bible and skip the scholar part too.

It never ends. The reason it never ends is that for one the NEED to believe the inerrancy of the Bible is more than important. The NEED for the Bible to tell one consistent story and be totally true in its conclusions is WHO they are at this particular moment in time. One local minister when he saw I was reading a quantum physics book asked me what that had to do with the Bible. I said, "Nothing, it doesn't need to have anything to do with the Bible." He said, "Oh yes it does, the Bible is the greatest science book ever written." He needed to believe that and he was very wrong.

On the other hand, there are those who have passed through the literalism and inerrancy of scripture to see it for what it is. It usually takes a traumatic religious experience to provoke the change. My pastoring past supplied more than enough impetus for me to examine what I used to teach. It's not a matter of stacking your scholars against my scholars to see who wins the argument because personal growth is an inside job. Spirituality comes from within.

Religious belief comes from examining what a scripture SAYS and assigning it a meaning. People who assign scripture the same meaning for them as a group usually form a church or a denomination, but that may not translate into a real spirituality. I personally feel that most Churches sift out according to personality. Angry and fearful types tend toward the exclusive "we only" mentality, read the Bible like a newspaper and hold such beliefs as an everlasting form of punishment for deeds done in a very finite amount of time. Of course, it will be YOU that experiences the eternal punishment or punishing and not them. Other Churches are shame (I'm a bad person) and guilt (I do bad things) based, with most being a combo of both. We have social churches where the minister had better mind his own business and control churches where you know he is about to mind your business for you. It's always a "he". At the other end of the spectrum are churches of people burned by religion and desirous of spirituality only. They don't want to hear the phrase "God says", or "The Bible tells us..". Those phrases are burnout for them. These are perhaps the Unitarian types who don't argue doctrine and just be who they are for now. Leading Unitarians is a bit like herding cats. I myself consider myself Non-Condemnational. That's about all I can come up with at the moment.

Spirituality is not about scholars vs. scholars. It's personal and often painful. We can all find someone who backs our "position". I don't find Bible READERS very often the kind of people I feel comfortable around anymore. I don't spend time with them and rarely engage them in a discussion because the Meme (mind virus) of conditioning is firmly in place. There is no discussion. Only arguing and pushing back. One sees very quickly that most minds come preloaded with their own form of truth. Frankly, if we took religious caused conflict and mayhem out of the news, we'd only have ads from Wal-Mart to read.

Recently a fundamentalist tried every way she could to save me and to convince me that the bible was the BEST science book, the Best psychology book, the BEST history book, the BEST guide for morality. I asked her if so, why did Israelite soldiers get to save the virgins of other nations for themselves, i.e. for sex, and kill everyone else or why Moses, upon returning with the big ten got really angry and had over 3000 people killed for not waiting or getting really angry when people in the DESERT felt a need for a bit more water and food. ...she mumbled something about the justice and judgment of God and changed the topic. One could ask hundreds of questions like that about both Old and New Testaments. At any rate, she told the others around me that I was making up a God in my own image to suit me and said they should shake the dust from their shoes when around me. (I ain't kiddin!). I knew I had made progress when is simply was able to smile and go about my business.

Scholars, mine or yours have a place, it's how we learn and get to make those personal decisions about how it may actually be in the realm of spiritual truth and growth. I don't care if Elaine Pagels and I agree (which we do) near as much as I appreciate that she is so adept at explaining the EVOLUTION of God in the Bible from Canaanite storm and fertility gods to what we have today in three major religions.

If I had to pick a book that actually said what I had always wondered about it would be John Shelby Spong's book Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism. He simply and with great insight said what I was already noticing about the Bible. I understood I was not crazy for noticing stories and teachings that seemed at best ignorant and at worst contrived. For others, it simply made them angry and feel threatened to the point that a woman hit John Spong over the head with her umbrella from behind at his own wife's funeral and others to wish the next plane he took to crash. I consider the former types to be religious and John Spong to understand spirituality and reality at it's best. It's difficult to argue with a spiritual person. Religious people thrive on arguments. It drives them nuts when you don't feel the need to.

The "my scholar vs. your scholar" mode of spiritual awakening has never worked. Spirituality is always an inside job perhaps only understood best by the person experiencing it.

Dennis Diehl

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