Friday, May 27, 2011

Facebook: WCG Survivors

 

There have been some interesting stories popping up on the Facebook page WCG Survivors.

I just found out about this site & I think it's wonderful! I've been reading alot about horrible experiences each of you endured and want to speak up a little about some of the horrors visited upon members. Not long before we came into the Church, if it was discovered that the Minister was coming to you home, members would show up at your house with cleaning products & would clean you house! Also, they would go into your cabinets & throw away any food items not acceptable by the church, white suger, white bread, white flour & of course anything possibily related to pork. When we came into the church in the early 70's they no longer did this type of intrusion. However, I was told I would not be allowed to go into the medical field, and a very good friend of ours who was a RN, was told she had to give up her career, which she did. During the time of the Minister from Hell, people turned on one another, spreading rumors if they couldn't find any truth to take to the Minister. Teenagers were told to "turn in" any other teens who weren't doing what the Minister said. My little family got to the point you didn't trust anyone. Some good friends of ours took in a lady who was literally homeless. What happended, yep, she would run to the Minister or his wife with "stuff" that was going on in the home. The same home she was welcomed into. This is just a sample of some of the things that went on. My regret???? We allowed our daughter to be looked down upon, treated like dirt & made fun of, because we didn't have a lot of money & lived in a mobile home. Which is all we could afford, since so much went to the Church. She also had to endure the same type of crap at school, because she couldn't partake of a lot of school stuff due to the Church

The ever compassionate, church hopping Larry Salyer is exposed as the hypocrite he is.  Of course this was typical of many COG ministers who felt they had the right to tell people what kind of jobs they could work in.  I find it pretty sad that these ministurds were telling people they could no longer be doctors when the Pasadena are was filled with Church doctors and Herb surrounded himself with them.
My dad was a policeman, had four stai-rstepped kids, and we were poor as church mice. Minister of the day (Larry Salyer) told my dad he was sinning by carrying a gun and was told to quit his job. My dad said 'And then how am I supposed to feed my kids?' The answer: (I'll bet you already know).....trust God. Well, my dad apparently didn't have that type of trust, never quit his job, and went on to retire from the police force 30 years later. He was never made a deacon or elder or given any sort of responsibilities because of his "attitude". Although a (pretty) faithful member for many years. In fact, still hasn't come "out", even though he did switch horses many years before the WCG transformation......and all of the splinters he had followed have splintered and he doesn't attend much any more. My dad is a tough one to figure out.....he's 70 and still pretty much does his own thing.
 --------------------------------

I've always had a natural bent towards science. It doesn't require much faith if you can prove the outcome with repeated experiments, so that's more comforting to me than wondering if some big deity in the sky will or will not talk to me.

I lost my faith when I was 16. I reached out to god and he turned away. I remember the day that I felt that abandonment. Over the next few years I looked at other religions and realized that all the Christian ones I looked at had the exact same formulas for services, scriptures, ostracism, and etc. That's not what I was looking for, so I started to look at pagan religions. Wicca was just the same thing with another god(dess). Oddly, most of the non-wicca pagans I have met seem to know the Bible better than I learned it. I never thought to ask why there are two creation stories, for example.

I used to hate any and all religions. Over the years I have relaxed my approach. Because all cultures have some form of deity, I realize that it is an essential thing for humans to try to make sense of the world and also create social customs for living with lots of humans in small spaces (as opposed to hunter-gatherer tribes) so that we can ensure our survival. Ultimately I am agnostic. Somethings can't be fully explained yet, so the question is still out there for me, but I am not looking to find anything either. If there is a god or goddess and they need me for something, they will have to find me

Thursday, May 26, 2011

More Dramatic Joplin Pictures

More amazing photo's of the death and destruction in Joplin.

click on picture to enlarge





More dramtic pcitures here:




Crystal Cathedral For Sale?



Robert Schuller used to be Herbert Armstrong's competition back in the early 1980's.  Later, WCG had to sell it's Bricket Wood, England, Big Sandy, Texas and Pasadena,CA properties in order to survive.  Now it looks like the Crystal Cathedral will be doing the same thing.  Perhaps Spanky or Six Pack might want to expand their empire?





GARDEN GROVE Crystal Cathedral Ministries will sell its gleaming glass sanctuary and tower that have been an Orange County landmark for decades as a way to emerge from bankruptcy, pay its creditors and erase its $36 million mortgage, officials said Thursday.
The church plans to sell the campus to a real estate investment group with a guaranteed 15-year leaseback and an exclusive four-year, fixed purchase buyback option on the core church campus, which includes the iconic glass sanctuary and Tower of Hope, according to a news release posted on the church's website.
Article Tab : crystal-cathedral-bankrup
Crystal Cathedral Ministries announced that it will sell the Crystal Cathedral and tower that have been an Orange County landmark for years as a way to emerge from bankruptcy, pay its creditors and erase its $36 million mortgage. The mega-church founded by television evangelist Robert H. Schuller, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2010.
LEONARD ORTIZ, THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER
Marc Winthrop, the attorney representing the cathedral in bankruptcy court, said the plan will ensure that the church can continue its ministry and other programs unhindered.
"The purpose of this plan is to generate funds to repay creditors without affecting the ability of the ministry to operate," he said.

No details have been released about the purchase price or the identity of the investor. But Winthrop confirmed that "there is a buyer and a seller." The church owes about $7.5 million to unsecured creditors including many longtime vendors who provided services for its annual Christmas and Easter pageants.

Church administrators say the cathedral will continue its local worship services, community outreach programs and its weekly "Hour of Power" broadcasts. Also, the plan will immediately eliminate both the church's mortgage and the majority of its vendor debt, they say. Any remaining vendor debt will be repaid over the next 42 months, officials say.

Senior Pastor Sheila Schuller Coleman, who took over leadership of the megachurch from her father and founder, Robert H. Schuller, said this plan was picked over other proposals because it repays the vendors quickly without interrupting the ministry's work.

"We are pleased that we are able to honor the debt that we have incurred and to honor the creditors who are due their payment," she said in a statement. "To pay them back 100 percent has always been a top priority and we are grateful to God for providing the resources to be able to do just that."

Kristina Oliver, who is owed $57,000 for supplying livestock for the "Glories," said she is optimistic that the church will pay her. Oliver's home went into foreclosure after the church refused to pay her what was due.

"I would just be relieved to put all this behind me and move on with my life," she said.
Anne Waltz, who joined the church 57 years ago as a member of its first choir at the Orange drive-in, said both she and her husband, Ken, were shocked to hear their church was being sold.

"This church needs a dynamic preacher to survive at this point," she said.

Ken Waltz said he is saddened to see the fall of a church that was built from the ground up by the older Schuller, who wowed Orange County's faithful with his powerful message of possibility thinking.

"The church has done so much good for the world," he said. "We hate to see it all muddied up like this in the end."

Ken Waltz also questioned the viability of the church's plan to emerge from bankruptcy.
"If they don't have the money now, how will they have the money to buy back the church four years from now," he said. "There are a lot of questions here."

He added that a church needs three elements to be successful – a powerful message in the form of a dynamic preacher, fellowship and divine music.

"The fellowship's still there at the cathedral," he said. "But they've lost their preacher and the music. They need to get that back in order to be successful."

Anne Waltz said she misses the music led by artists such as pianist Roger Williams and choir director Don Neuen. Both Williams and Neuen left over differences of opinion with Schuller's daughters who are in charge of the cathedral's programs.

"The music we had was starting to rival the Mormon Tabernacle Choir," she said. "Now we've lost that and we've lost our Glories that brought tens of thousands of people through our doors."
The Crystal Cathedral, over the last three years, has been torn by a family feud that saw the exit of the founder's son Robert A. Schuller. In the year leading up to its bankruptcy filing Oct. 18, the church sold many of its assets, cut about 150 of its staff members and slashed air time by 50 percent. Its congregation has shrunk to less than 5,000. According to bankruptcy filings, donations fell by 24 percent in 2009.

The church, at this point, owes money to about 550 creditors. Among the unsecured creditors are vendors who provided their services to the megachurch's popular "Glory of Christmas" and "Glory of Easter" pageants – both of which have been suspended as a result of church's financial troubles. The Cathedral lost $16.8 million over three years on total revenues of $70.8 million.
The mortgage includes the cost of two more buildings on campus – the Family Life Center and Welcoming Center – which were added in 1990 and 2003 respectively. The mortgage also covers the cost of other refurbishments on campus and parking lot expansion as well as funds to acquire neighboring properties.

Contact the writer: 714-796-7909 or dbharath@ocregister.com

UCG Ethics Committee



Ethic's and UCG in the same sentence is the ultimate in paradox.  UCG has a long history of being unethical.

It's very formation was one of unethical behavior.  Most of the men in charge at UCG now, and also those that split off to form the new COGWA, are the same men who sat for months and months in the 380 and 390 apartments on the Pasadena campus planning and plotting their new church all the while still raking in their paychecks and standing up in church each week supporting the changes.  Some were even firing men left and right who disagreed with the changes coming down, while they were plotting their new church.


Mario Seiglie is the new head of the UCG Ethics Committee.  Seiglie is also the one that UCG sent to South America to 'straighten out' the issue with the family that was operating a day care center on the so called 'sabbath.'  What was unethical about that?  These 'sabbath breakers' were extended members of Seiglie's own relatives!  We now all know the result of that 'family intervention.'  The break up of UCG and the defection of a huge number of it's ministers.

UCG ethic's involves church members who embezzled hundreds of thousands of dollars from a bank and built UCG a church meeting hall in West Virginia.

And, we cannot forget some of the current UCG ministers who are committing adultery and others who are raging alcoholics.  Yep, ethic's is a real concern for UCG right now.

Wednesday, May 25, 2011

Can You Picture A Minister in ANY of the COG's Ever Doing This?



Have you ever had a minister in your church area that was honest and vulnerable and told you how life really was for him at that moment?  Has you minister ever told you how human they are and the mistakes they've made?

Very few do, they know the consequences, and if they do you can be guaranteed that some self righteous church member would immediately squeal to HQ and demand that they be removed.

Here is a church pastor that has made a public admission and talks about the results of what that public admission did to him in his ministry and what it now does for him in his steps of healing himself.




Hi, my name is Chad, and I’m a ____


UCG: Income Down, Godly Housewives and UCG's 'Essence'



Some UCG Conference highlights:

UCG is in the process of budgeting a 40% decrease in income.  Partly because of the tremendous loss of money from the UCG and COGaWA debacle and a failed economy.

UCG is still trying to decide to what to do with it's women.  10 years ago they produced a document that pertained to the 'needs' of women in UCG in order for them "... to be effective wives, mothers and homemakers."

God forbid if any woman in UCG might have the ability to teach or lead something!

They also decided that they need some kind of communication between elder's wives.

Um, hello.....it's 2011 and your kids have better communication with their friends than your women do?

This is such an important matter that they had to draft a proposal:



After some discussion on the matter, Mr. John Elliott proposed and Mr. Scott Ashley seconded the following proposal:
Whereas, the Council of Elders desires to establish a means for elders' wives to communicate among themselves,
Now therefore, it is hereby resolved that, Ministerial and Member Services is to develop a means for online networking and communication for elders' wives of UCGIA.
The Council approved unanimously this proposal.

Do they not realize how incredibly stupid this makes them look? 10 years after a proposal nothing has happened, and close to 20 years after breaking away to form the most perfect COG on earth, they still have not done anything!  It should be quite obvious to the women of UCG that you are a low priority.  Men rule, you are only there to submissive wives and crafty Martha Stewart homemakers.

They have also decided that they need to determine what the ministers/UCG's essential 'essence' is.  They've decided that they have 'godly relationships'.  As much as I want to I will not go there..............

Critical Essence:
The Council concluded a very informative and spirited discussion regarding our critical essence based on the research provided by the Northlich company. Based on a desire to be crystal clear with how the Council sees the essence of our personality, our way of life and of what our message is about, the Council felt that it would be more precise to add the distinguishing and clarifying word "godly" to the statement of our critical essence.

Mr. McNeely proposed, Mr. Seiglie seconded, and the Council adopted "godly relationships" as our critical essence.

UCG will no longer 'match' 403B contributions by ministers and elders.  They do not have the income to do that any longer.

Council Secretary Gerald Seelig took the floor to submit to the Council the appropriate documentation to empower the President and the Administration to withdraw the 403B thrift matching plan,



Tuesday, May 24, 2011

Joplin Devastation

Pictures of Joplin Missouri tornado.  Absolutely amazing to see.  Sadly we will soon be subjected to a rash of COG ministers claiming this is a sign of the end times or God spanking these people because they are not Sabbath keeping LCG members.

Check out this article for a lot of other pictures: Daily Mail: Joplin Tornado

Click on pictures to enlarge for a realization to the magnitude of the damage done.



The Entire Earth Will Now Be Destroyed on October 21st, 2011

Failed prophet Harold Camping now says that the earth will be totally destroyed on October 21st, 2011.  What really happened on May 21st was an 'invisible spiritual judgement day'.

His new theory is that God decided to spare humanity horrible pain and death through five months of tribulation and now will instead, just kill everyone in one swift move on October 21st.  One minute you will be here, the next you will be fried to a crisp.  Of course, he and 3% of the world's population will be in heaven playing harps on a fluffy white cloud.

This entire episode with Camping should be a reminder to Armstrongites of the same lies that came down from Herbert Armstrong and Rod Meredith in the late 1960's when they predicted that the end times would start in the 1972 and the millennium would start in 1975.  It should also remind Armstrongites that they are all a product of the failed prophecies of William Miller who told the same lie in the 1844.

Armstrongism is currently filled with numerous liars and false prophets.  Rod Meredith, Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack, Ron Weinland, and numerous others.  When will people stop listening to these liars?





Apostle Malm: The Endtime Starts in 2015



Apostle Malm is mocking Harold Camping's current failed prophecy because it was not pronounced by a TRUE COG Apostle like himself.  Then, once the TRUE Apostle makes the truth known you will willingly follow him to Petra.  It will be another test to prove yourself worthy.  First was the Sabbath 'test'. Now it is the Petra 'test'.

Harold Camping says he made a mistake and the rapture will come in late Oct.  Herald is wrong again; there will be no rapture as he describes it.  Instead the faithful will make a personal decision to follow God’s two true prophets to the place that God has prepared.  This will be a conscious, informed decision and will not be forced on anyone.  It will be a test of obedience to God as Abraham was tested in Ur; as Lot was tested at Sodom; as Noah was tested to obey his God.

The great evil that Herald (sic) is doing is much more than temporarily deceiving a few gullible people; It has to do with falsely crying  “wolf” so many times that the real truth is ignored!  The tribulation will come ONLY when ALL the biblical signs are present.  ONLY after the final false prophet has been set up in Rome and revives the Holy Roman Empire [by whatever name].  Only when this abomination goes to the Holy Place will the tribulation begin!  Mat 24:15-21.

What disturbs Apostle Malm so much with Harold's failed prophecy is that people will  now be leery of Apostle Malm or other COG prophets when they pronounce the 'truth.'  People will ignore them too.

So how does Apostle Malm get around the Scripture that blatantly points out to all prophets, that "no man knows the hour?"  I bet you did not know that the people were too stupid in Jesus time to know 'when' but now in these latter days enlightened people like Apostle Malm have that knowledge.

The scripture does say that no man KNEW the day or hour at the time that Jesus Christ was speaking on the earth in the flesh; that does NOT mean or imply that no man will ever know the time.  For it is written that at the very end, the books shall be unsealed and [spiritual] knowledge shall be increased by the unsealing of the prophetic books.

We are then told that the wise SHALL understand!  Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Apostle Malm also knows the exact year that creation happened.  That is, until those wicked Catholics allowed Ussher to change the date and now the entire world is deceived. Except for Apostle Malm, of course.


As we approached the year 2,000 AD [believed by many to be the year 6,000]  many were concerned about that being a potential time of the end.  In fact a complete 6,000 years must elapse BEFORE the 7th thousand year begins; that means that at the END of the 6th thousandth year or at the beginning of the year 6,001; is when the seventh thousand year begins.

I bring it to your attention that until the Catholic Bishop Ussher decided that creation was in 4004 BC, it was generally recognized that creation was in 3987 BC.  That would make the year 6,001 begin in 2015.

The 2,300 Day Prophecy also falls out to completion with the sanctuary being cleansed in 2,015.

Then like all good Armstrongites he denies he is setting a date but then quickly goes to point out that the false prophet will be set up in Rome in late 2011:

I am presenting this information NOT to set a specific date, but to show the potential for serious end time events in the foreseeable future.  Counting back from the sixth day of Unleavends 2,015;  the 1,290 days of Dan 12, brings us to late 2011 for the setting up of the final false prophet in Rome and his call for a new order in Europe.
Regardless of whether this happens in 2011 or a year or two later; the children of light; the WISE: Shall NOT be taken by surprise!  They are close to their God and have chosen to follow the Lamb instead of following men and their corporations who use the name of Christ to peach a false Christ who would compromise with his Father’s law and tolerate sin out of a false “love” which allows men to rush to their own destruction instead of correcting them.

I guess I better keep my Petra pack by the front door all the time now.  One just never quite knows which prophet will be setting which date.  There seem to be sooooooooooooooooo many of them now.

Monday, May 23, 2011

COG Member Says: Buddhists and Atheists Inbreeding White America Into Extinction


You never know what silliness you will find an Armstrongite spouting next.  There is a guy on Yahoo who feels he is the COG's foremost authority on British Israelism and racial purity.

Here is what he had to say tonight on intermarriage:

There is a coalition of:
Fabians
One Worlders
Universalists
Atheists
Buddhists
Taoists
Globalists
Liberals
and 'Don't Care'
types that are trying to get the races to interbreed into on. They know full well that White Caucasians will be extinct within 100-150 years - unless there is a backlash in Europe ...

Is it any wonder that society looks upon Armstrongites and cultists with such derision! What fools!