Dave Pack: Brethren, It is my job to let you know I know stuff, but I dont need to tell you what I know because that's not my job

 

Prophecy Excuses

 

David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God can squeeze a lot into 78 minutes. Just not the truth.

 

During “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 437)” on April 24, 2023, the audience was blown away when Judas returned to being the Man of Sin. The most substantial evidence supporting that God was working with Herbert W. Armstrong in the 1930s was dissolved. David C. Pack's job is to let the brethren know he knows stuff, but he will not tell the brethren the stuff he knows because that is not his job.

 

He is 99.9% sure about that.

 

Heads and horns and kings and beasts of Daniel 7 and Revelation 17 were the bulk of Part 437, but they were not all of it. After teasing the brethren with elements of the Man of Sin, the Seventh and Eighth Head, and flying Chaldeans, the launch pad spring was wound and ready to go.

 

While in the book of Habakkuk, David C. Pack felt compelled to get into the meat of his Bible study by making a tortured excuse for all the prophetic hiccups.

Part 437 – April 24, 2023

@ 05:45 Now, if that setup didn't intrigue you, then I guess I failed. But again, it’s the last thing that I am told to explain. So, I guess we’d have to stop and say, no matter how many times I or you or all of us thought and hoped that I had reached the end of the line until I explained somebody or a group led by an individual who precedes the first of three kingdoms of God, there was never any way that I had fulfilled that.

 

Boohoo. I could not fulfill prophecy until XYZ was explained. The concept of the messenger understanding what the message was and when he delivered it is out the window.

The "Ah shucks, I'm in this right beside you, brethren" attitude does not hold water. Dave digs into the Bible to find what he needs and exploits it to kick the can down the road. Seven years running.

 

During the Days of Unleavened Bread, He went out of his way to assign homework seven days in a row SO THAT prophecy could not-really be fulfilled. Thinking he was fulfilling a prophecy when he was not is an honest mistake. Maybe if it was the first time.

 

@ 06:15 I could read it and think about it. And even think and know that I had to do it and think that I had done it, but until I explained something that came before all three iterations of the Kingdom, which means I had to go back to and learn about and solidify one year. I could never fulfill that verse.

 

The idea the verse is not about him does not cross his mind, nor is that something he could read and think about. Human steam pushes forward to fulfill a Bible verse. Which is why he fails.

 

Prophecy occurs when and how God decides. We are the surfboards on the wave. Dave thinks he is the ocean.

 

@ 06:33 Now, that's one of the most startling and inspiring things for me to realize. The days of my voice would not be ended. I would not have prepared the way, and Christ and the Father come quickly with their temper. With their Temple.

 

Another personally important revelation. Only those close to him would know if it was as inspiring as being the only person on earth to be correctly waiting for the 1335 of Daniel 12:12 to begin in February.

 

This is so startling to him because it shows he has not been “wrong” this whole time. If you reach a Level-12 understanding of Between the Lines, you can interpret what he really meant.

 

Until God was ready to bestow this information upon poor try-hard Dave, he would be held in a perpetual circling pattern until the prophetic runway was cleared for a landing.

 

David C. Pack could not fulfill prophecy until God gave him the thumbs up. After a seven-year stumble, that has finally happened with Part 437.

 

Do any of his excuses sound familiar? They should.

 

Flashback Part 429 – March 15, 2023

@ 1:24:24 It’s over. And it’s the greatest mystery (and in all honesty, brethren, and I’ve said this before), but this might be the greatest mystery of all. We were never gonna be done with this process until Mr. Pack got this straight.

 

Flashback Part 418 – February 9, 2023

@ 15:00 One of the greatest mysteries that the Bible contains, I'm gonna explain to you now, and you've never heard one word about it. And it’s its own statement (yet again) of how the Series could hardly be over until this was explained.

 

Flashback Part 388 – August 23, 2022

@ 04:57 If we’re waiting for Christ to bring the Kingdom of God, we should know it. And this Series wouldn't be over until that was suddenly figured out after, lo, these many years.

 

Flashback Part 226 – December 28, 2019

@ 1:17:12 We could almost say the Series would never be over until you heard at least this sermon.

 

Flashback Part 179 – June 12, 2019

@ 1:41:00 …are what God said to say to this man. And you know what? We weren't ready until this man said all those things, and he's doing it tonight.

 

That is enough. It is painful to watch Dave punch this other, more stupid guy wearing the glasses. No need to be a bully, dude. We get it. This is recycled content for the short-term memory crowd.

 

 

While traversing through Daniel and Revelation, Dave had to walk back a recent walk-back. This is another undoing from Part 437.

 

Part 437 – April 24, 2023

@ 1:04:49 “…and you shall have tribulation ten days.” There is no place in history that I can find (and I have dug); there is no place where there were any such ten days or ten years. Either one where that already happened. 

 

Dave reverted the ten days of Tribulation in Revelation 2 to prophetic future and NOT the past.

 

For those who gullibly trusted David C. Pack to correctly interpret the word of truth during Part 432 were again disappointed. The All-Believing Zealots accepted when he said those ten days were part of history. And they got hoodwinked. I wonder how many of them are keeping score.

 

Part 432 – April 1, 2023

@ 02:55 So, we faced a false choice, and I wanna explain that. The ten days are ten historic years, or ten prophetic days? Ten historic years, which is what the Church taught, and I believed for about 55 years or ten prophetic days? The answer is neither. It’s ten historic days.

 

How did he come to his conclusion when he April Fooled the brethren?

 

He made it up. He just decided to fabricate reality. This is the pitfall of “because I said so” theology.

 

David C. Pack presented this as a conclusively researched fact despite the research being inconclusive, revealing it was not fact. And yet, he taught it anyway.

 

This is the result when Dave does not disclose his sources. Because there are no sources. When you listen with your Between the Lines filter activated, he cites a source when he has one. He blows past it when he does not.

 

The lesson here: If you let David C. Pack talk long enough, he exposes himself as a liar.

 

 

There have been several jaw-dropping moments throughout "The Greatest Unending Story!" Series. They usually involve brutal attacks on the brethren or the people around him, but sometimes words fall from David C. Pack’s lips that prove a stunning blindness.

 

How he can read Deuteronomy 18:20-22 aloud without blushing, winking, or with uncomfortable hesitation is beyond me. Part 437 had one of those instances.

 

Extreme Irony Alert

Headquarters Edition

@ 45:48 “…I lay down My life for the sheep.” So, some shepherds have to be willing to die for others in this period. A lotta shepherds have not been what they should, and a lot of them are gonna be put to a test. A greater judgment, if you will, during this difficult period. And they may have to give their life for the sheep. I learned back thirty years ago there were men who gave safe sermons who would not die for the sheep. They would hold their job first until they were forced out, and there was enough money and tithes in groups they could go to, and they'd be fine. They gave safe sermons. Always safe sermons. Never stood up, and then they got axed. I'm an expert at getting axed. Twice.

 

“The third time is the charm,” as the saying goes.

 

This moment perfectly described the hirelings at Headquarters in Wadsworth, Ohio. The Restored Church of God is experiencing a difficult period RIGHT NOW.

 

A lot of shepherds have not been what they should be. Safe sermons. Never stood up. Greater judgment. Wow. David C. Pack is still capable of speaking the truth at times. Though, it is mostly unintentional.

 

Meet the men unwilling to lay down their lives for the sheep by giving safe sermons during this current test inside The Restored Church of God which will result in a greater judgment.

 

Bradford Schleifer • Edward Winkfield • Ryan Denee • Carl Houk

Jaco Viljoen • Kenneth Orel • Timothy Ranney • James Habboush

Andrew Holcombe • Salasi Jezhi • Frank Lydick • Raymond Garb

 

The clock is ticking. At some point, it will be "pencils down" for these guys. I would not trade places with any of them. The brethren need to get out while they still can.

 

 

Flashback Part 434 – April 10, 2023

@ 00:02 Well, much (maybe most) of everything we’ve learned and heard has been correct.

 

Two weeks later, Dave is already light-years past this understanding. Does that make the statement a lie or a mistake?

 

David C. Pack has been fraudulently claiming he has fulfilled prophecy and, during his own excuse, admits that was false. 

 

The enablers at Headquarters follow him along, holding pillows and vials of oil to keep their human idol calm and cozy. They have no idea what a disservice they commit against God’s people in God’s name.

 

When the Judgment Seat of Christ appears, what excuses will they make?

Marc Cebrian

See: Prophecy Excuses

LCG: Be humble like we the ministry are...

 

Doug Winnail lets the Living Church of God membership know that THEY need to start humbling themselves so they can become teachable - like the ministry already is. Cough, cough.

The Real Keys to Spiritual Success: Many believe the key to success is who you know. Yet, God’s instructions are very different. Jesus stressed the importance of humility and teachability when he said, “Blessed are the poor in spirit” and “Blessed are the meek” because they will inherit the Kingdom of God and reign on Earth with Jesus Christ (Mathew 5:3–5). God was able to use Moses because he was humble and teachable (Numbers 12:3). Jesus was exalted by God because He humbled Himself and followed God’s instructions (Philippians 2:8–11). Solomon understood that “before honor is humility (Proverbs 15:33). The Apostle James records, “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble” (James 4:6–10). Peter writes that God will exalt those who are humble and can submit to one another (1 Peter 5:5–6). Isaiah summarizes what God is looking for in those He will reward; “But on this one will I look: on him who is poor [humble] and of a contrite spirit [willing to change, and who trembles at My word [a person who is teachable by God]” (Isaiah 66:1–2). These scriptures provide us with the real keys to spiritual growth and ultimate success.

Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail

For decades the key to success in the Worldwide Church of God, Global Church of God, and Living Church of God was dependent upon who you knew. It's odd that Winnail completely overlooks that, but then this is a COG, after all.

There is a lot of emphasis upon humility and humbleness made by Winnail above, one thing that has been totally lacking in COG leadership for decades, regardless of which group it is.  Rod Meredith was well known for not having a humble bone in his body, so much so that Herbert Armstrong sent him to Hawaii for the year to learn humility. It didn't work.

Also, when has the leadership of ANY Church of God ever submitted to the membership? Do you see Bob Thiel, Dave Pack, or Gerald Flurry doing that? Bob Thiel will not even listen to his elders when they bring instances of corruption to him. Gerald Weston certainly does not!

As for the "willing to change" part, there is no minister leading a church of God today that has ever been able to do that. Look at Bob Thiel, one of the most bullheaded narcissists the church has ever seen. Pack and Flurry certainly were not willing to change resulting in the mess they are in today.

Paying lip services to humility and being humble is something most Church of God leaders/ministers are really good at. It sounds good but to really do it is another thing indeed.

 

Why Do They Stay?: -- The Bamboozle

 

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

Carl Sagan

UCG: Join Us As We Leave The World Behind…WAIT!!! Oh Wow! Life in the West is much different than life in other parts of the world

As the United Church of God steps away from the world and leaves it behind, Rick Shabi is learning that people in third-world impoverished countries exist and life is pretty tough for most of them. Who knew?

There are experiences in life that cause us to look at the world in a different way and to understand our absolute need for Christ and God’s Spirit. In 2 Corinthians 4:4, Paul tells us that Satan is the “god of this age.” The world is quickly becoming more and more like him. As God’s people, we are called to become more and more like God. We must make choices to leave the world and its ways and attitudes behind and choose to follow God, and to live the way of life to which He has called us. 

 

We see the evidence of a quickly changing system and set of values in Western culture that is headed in the direction of totalitarianism—attempting to dominate our lives in every aspect. God has graciously and kindly given us time now to be turning ever more closely to Him and away from the world, and to wake up to what is going on around us so that we are not caught “sleeping” when the “time” comes. 

 

Life in the West is much different than life in other parts of the world, I continue to learn. The pressures we feel in the United States are literally “nothing” compared to what our brethren around the world face every day.

Well, no shit Sherlock! The Church of God has always paid lip service to those in other nations, particularly third-world countries. 

Never forget how the pressure was so great upon the top leadership of the United Church of God when they chose to apostatize from the Worldwide Church of God and start a new church. They spent an entire year ensuring the money flow was intact before they all jumped off the fence they had been sitting upon for the previous year, never once concerned about those living a "different life" in other parts of the world. The church leadership has always had priorities and it was always the top down. Third-world countries and members were at the bottom of the pyramid.

HID-TV Dawn Blue and Marc Cebrian Discuss Dave Pack's Recent Rampage of "GIVE ALL or Risk Their Salvation"

 

Join Host Dawn Blue & Former Member/Employee of Restored Church of God Marc Cebrian on WCTV. 

In this episode, we play videos of "Pastor General" David C. Pack in what can only be described as a rampage. That leads up to him telling his flock to GIVE ALL or risk their salvation. 

That life insurance policy, a second vehicle, a savings account, the inheritance you received, or equity in your home is what funds your afterlife.

This is episode 10 of the series.

HID-TV Dawn Blue and Mark Cebrian Discuss Dave Pack Recent Failures And Why Members Stay

 

Dawn Blue is back with her excellent series on David C Pack's Restored Church of God with interviews of ex-RCG employee Marc Cebrian.

In this episode, they discuss the failed dates of Jesus Christ's return since November, the tactics David C. Pack uses, and why the brethren stay.

This is episode 9 of the series.

The Wellspring of the Law: The Mistaken View of Law in Armstrongism

 

A fragment of the Holiness Code: Leviticus 17 – 26.  

The code was intended to guide and sustain life.

 

The Wellspring of the Law

The Mistaken View of Law in Armstrongism

By Krischan

 

The Armstrongist view of Law, with a capital “L” and found in both the Old and New Covenants, is very different from that of Christian orthodoxy.  And it is not just a contention over downstream application although that frequently emerges.   The division in understanding begins at the beginning, at the point of origin, at the source. 

Origin of the Law

The Law reflects the moral character of God.  In the Judeo-Christian tradition, Law is the socialized implementation of God’s requirements governing behavior and conduct for human beings.  When we speak of the eternal spiritual Law of God, this is nothing less than a codification of the nature and character of God himself.   God would not institute Laws that violate his personal character.  There are three major instantiations of the Law in the Bible for humankind:

1.     The Law that existed before Moses.

2.     The Law of Moses.

3.     The Law of Christ. 

The character of God existed before the creation of the Cosmos, of course.  God is what he is.  God is eternal and the Cosmos is a created artifact.  There was a time when there was no Cosmos, if I may be loose and free with the term “time.”  The three categories of Law listed above are categories of legislation based on the character of God.  They are contingent on God just as the Cosmos is contingent and humanity is contingent.  The Law of God for humanity on this planet coincides with the existence of humanity and does not have an eternal existence in its human relevant implementation details.  

Christian orthodox dogma has a view called Ex Lex.  This is Latin for “outside the Law.”  God is viewed as not being the object of his own law.  This does not mean that God can choose to be a transgressor.  It means that the Law does not exist as an external force to which God must comply.  The Law is a reflection of his inherent nature that he would naturally always be in compliance with it. But it is not an imposition.  It is not like someone gave him a list of required behaviors that he has in a drawer and he pulls out once in a while to see what he must do.  The statement “God cannot break his own laws” is a deficient and anthropomorphic concept.  It detaches God from his Law.  God is his law.  He is the giver of law not the object of law.  Prior to the existence of humanity, there must have already been a law for angels; also, a reflection of God’s nature.  God may have instituted other laws for other sentient beings.  God is the wellspring of Law.  All such bodies of legislation are compatible with God’s character (Romans 7:12). 

The Armstrongist Assertion of the Eternality of Torah

Armstrongist theology recognizes that the Law is eternal but they mistakenly believe that eternal, spiritual Law is the Torah.  Herman Hoeh, in his 1971 article “Which Old Testament Laws Should We Keep Today?”, states:  ”…God’s basic spiritual Laws existed from the beginning … This Law is summed up in the Ten Commandments … These Commandments existed from the very beginning – since creation.”  Hoeh connects the initiation of the Law with the creation of the Cosmos.  But what about the period prior to the creation?  Lesson 17 of the Bible Study published in 1984 by the Worldwide Church of God states, “God's eternal, spiritual Law existed long before Adam and Eve were created.”  Further reading of the surrounding text indicates that the term “Law” refers to the commandments, statues and judgments given at Sinai.  The Armstrongist authors of the Bible Study retroject (chronological terms fail us) the Torah into the divine and timeless realm of God – what would from our perspective might simplistically be called the “eternal past.”  So, God’s eternal, moral, and spiritual law is the Torah created for humankind.

In other words, Armstrongists would have us believe that the Sabbath existed in eternity as a Law before God ever created a Cosmos with the earth circling the sun tracing out a seven-day weekly cycle.  They would have us believe that the concept of adultery existed before there were gendered human beings who enter into a marriage covenant.  They would have us believe that the idea of stealing was forbidden before the material realm and the concept of ownership known to us was created.  It is painfully obvious that the Torah was created for a certain people at a certain time and in a certain place.  It is derived from the eternal Law of God but it is not the eternal Law of God.      

Moral Content and Methodology

I believe that Armstrongists sense that there is something about the Torah that makes it required.  And there is something.  It is the moral content of the Law that is durable but not its implementation details or methodology. Circumcision is an excellent example.  The physical surgery is no longer required but the changed heart of conversion that it symbolized is on the critical path to salvation.  Circumcision lives on in its spiritual intent but not in his physical implementation.  The Circumcision Party, that opposed Paul so energetically, was characterized by not being able to understand how Jesus magnified the Law.  A sketch of three views of the Law follows:

Armstrongism retains the methodology, that is the physical implementation details, of the Law and this circumscribes and limits the scope of the Law.  Jesus magnified the Law (Isaiah 42:21) by releasing the moral spirit of the Law and letting it expand out of its physical implementation container.  He did this by revealing the unrestricted moral imperative behind the Law.  The result of the retention of the restricting container is that Armstrongists can believe they are keeping the Law exhaustively and, in the spirit of Phariseeism, never lift a hand to perform a single charitable act.  Fish food containing yeast may be righteously cast out during the Days of Unleavened Bread but an elderly neighbor who needs help can be ignored without the Armstrongist feeling uncomfortable about conformity with the Law.  While many Armstrongists are charitable people, it is not their commitment to the Torah that makes them so.  It is, rather, their exposure to the New Covenant with its emphasis on proactive love. 

The Christian ideal is that the Law should be freed from its container but it retains its moral imperative. This is because the moral content of the Law is derived from the nature of God.  And it is the moral content that is written on the heart.  That morality is defined by love.  God is love.  But it is not free-form, draw-your-own-conclusion love but love conditioned by the witness of the Old Covenant (Hebrews 12:1). 

A third view is a kind of Marcionism – a belief that the God of the Old Covenant is an ogre.  Marcion of Sinope believed that Yahweh was a demiurge and anything emanating from Yahweh was to be rejected.  Marcion assembled his own Gospel and accepted a few of the Epistles of Paul and nothing else in what became the later canon.   An extreme version of this view is that the Old Covenant has been proclaimed obsolete and that gives us now a blank slate on which we may write our personal proclivities as an auto-generated code of ethics.  Both the moral content and the physical implementation are now obsolete, have been vacated, and can be expediently and imaginatively replaced.  This is an antinomian heresy not because it lacks ethics wholly but because it rejects the Old Covenant based etiology of Christian ethics.   The rejected etiology logically excludes God as the unchallengeable source of the Law who gives rise to the durability and consistency of the moral content of the Law.  To assert that God abrogated both the methodology and the moral content of any given Old Covenant Law in the institution of the New Covenant is to declare God’s use of the concepts of good and evil to be arbitrary. 

Summary Conclusion

The Torah is not the eternal spiritual Law of God as Armstrongists claim.  The Torah is, rather, a specific instantiation of the eternal spiritual Law.  The Torah is decreed legislation for a certain people in a certain time and in a certain place.  Inherent in its very language are the humanistic and earthly details that support its tailored nature. But because the Torah reflects the nature of God, its moral content persists beyond any change in covenant.  While the moral content of the Law is nonvolatile, the implementation details or methodology of the Law may be modified or become obsolete.  The example of circumcision is canonical here for all Laws.  Requiring zealous conformance to the physical surgery militates against the action of Jesus to make the Law honorable (Isaiah 42:21) by freeing it from physical constraint in order to bring it to its full spiritual stature.  The entire Torah, in moral content, culminates in Jesus Christ (Romans 10:4).