Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Although the notion that Great Britian and the United States are descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh has been thoroughly discredited by biblical and historical scholars, CGI’s Bill Watson continues to insist that the teaching gives those who accept it a prophetic leg up on everyone else. In The Prophetic Advantage - The Israel Paradigm (Part 8), Watson reiterated his belief that viewing biblical prophecies through the lens of this understanding gives him (and everyone who shares his belief) a correct perspective on the meaning of prophecy. Of course, the many prophetic failures of Herbert Armstrong and his “evangelists” over the last eighty-plus years is completely ignored and NEVER mentioned in his remarks.
For Bill, however, this “understanding” gives legitimacy to his ministry. Anglo-Israelism justifies his messaging. It supports his emphasis on headline theology, and his forays into partisan politics. For Mr. Watson, his conviction that the English-speaking peoples are the descendants of the ancient Israelites is what motivates his embrace of “America First” and “Make America Great Again” policies and politics. It also accounts for his strong anti-immigrant and anti-socialist messaging. For Bill, the political left is destroying America/Manasseh and bringing about the punishments which were prophesied so long ago for the children of Israel. Finally, this also fits nicely with the Armstrongist preoccupation with Torah (which encompasses the tenets of God’s covenant with the Israelites).
In short, for Bill (and all of the ACOG folks who share his view) Israel is the focus of Scripture and is the theme that unites everything. For most Christians, however, Jesus of Nazareth is the focus of Scripture – the theme that unites everything! Bill and his allies see Israel as the object of prophecy. Even so, most Christians see Jesus as the fulfillment of prophecy. Indeed, the vast majority of Christians view the Hebrew Scriptures (Torah and the prophets in particular) as shadows of the reality found in Christ. Unfortunately, this view of the Bible is completely foreign/alien to Bill and his followers. Nevertheless, this Israel-centric approach to Scripture distorts Bill’s theological and prophetic understanding and perfectly explains why this is the eighth part of a series of sermons dealing with the same subject.
Anglo-Israelism also distorts Bill’s view of history. It perverts the way that he sees the accomplishments of Wycliffe and Tyndale, and the importance of events like the Spanish Armada, the founding of Jamestown, the landing at Plymouth, the American Revolution, and Waterloo. For Bill and his allies, Almighty God was actively orchestrating the events of the history of the English-speaking peoples of the earth. For him, EVERYTHING in that history was a consequence of God fulfilling his promises to the patriarchs. In other words, Bill’s view of history justifies a whole lot of immoral behavior on the part of a whole lot of people. He reasons that God was behind it all, and that makes it right! Thus, things like colonialism, exploitation, greed, genocide, slavery, capitalism, and theft take on a Holy glow for Bill and his followers.
Why is he so wrong? Because the English-speaking peoples of the earth are NOT Israelites. Because the Gentile peoples of those nations are NOT part of God’s covenant with Israel, and they are NOT responsible for observing the tenets of Torah. Those nations do NOT represent the fulfillment of God’s promises to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and David. Their sins are not excused or justified by God’s purposes. The prophecies which were directed at Judah and Israel and their leaders do NOT apply to the British and American people and their leaders. Likewise, other nations which were associated with ancient Israel are NOT represented in modern times by current European nations. In other words, the notion that God is going to use German, Russian, or Chinese armies to punish Britain and the United States is absurd! In short, Bill and his allies are promulgating a false message. They are predicting things that will NEVER happen, and they are diverting attention away from the One who should be the focus of their messaging, Jesus Christ.
There was a great blog that ran for several years called Church of God Perspective that was run by John D. Early on, John saw though the lies and deception of Bob Thiel and called him out on it, just as we have. John never minced words about Bob which pushed Bob's delicate buttons even more than we do.
We have to laugh at how the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu wrote letters to complain to Gavin Rumney and John D about how they criticized him but he has never had the man cajones to write to us and complain. Not that are terribly disappointed. He complains on his blog because he knows that no one can respond to him. Cowardly.
COGWriter Bob Thiel is a seriously delusional character.
COGWriter Bob Thiel emailed me the following. I am following it up with my response for reasons contained within that response:
Dear John: I just ran across a post you made about me calling me a liar and claiming that I do not correct errors. For the two decades I have posted on the internet, I have always corrected factual errors when brought to my attention. If you feel that there is something I have not corrected, please give me proper details, as opposed to your opinions. You could have contacted me directly about this. You are bearing false witness by referring to me as a liar, etc. The fact that you disagree with some of my opinions does not justify what you did. Please remove that post. And, yes, I have a Ph.D. and Th.D. among other degrees. The Th.D. is in Christian Apologetics, with a speciality of Early Church History. Regards, Bob Thiel
No, I will not remove that post. It is ironic that you claim you do not know the specifics of where you are wrong when one of the complaints in that post are that you don’t even bother to carefully read things to ensure an accurate understanding. I specifically point out one area where you are wrong, but your narcissism will not allow you to see it.
No, I will not contact you privately because you will quote me out of context and/or twist its meaning, so this way everyone will openly see the entire exchange in public. Your entire blog is just like James Malm’s, twisting what others have said to fit your agenda. The only difference is that sometimes you are more subtle about it.
You yourself stated that your PhD was not in Theology. If that has changed, then so be it. However, I know it will go above your head the fact that this makes you an even smaller man that even I could have imagined. Please, tell us, Dr Thiel, why do false teachers have such a love for strings of titles? After all, there are worldly religious figures I respect more than you, who themselves are doctors, but they do not obscure it with a long list of irrelevant and superfluous other degrees, studies and titles.
I will make sure that there is a link to this article from that article just to clear up the matter, however. After all, unlike you, I am a man of some character and do not go out of my way to twist words to make it appear that someone said something other than what they truly said.
If you really want that article taken down, then I suggest your repent of your narcissistic slander and admit:
You are not a real prophet of God. In fact, you aren’t even a prophet, but merely a purveyor of what others have churned out as “prophecies”.
That there is such a thing as dual prophecy, and HWA taught it. Therefore, an event can be fulfilled in the past and again in the future.
That just because someone says ten nations will come together in the future, that does not necessarily mean that it is ten nations as now exists. In fact, the COG has long taught that the ten toes could be ten nations or ten groups of nations, such as how in WWII Germany swallowed up Austria and other regions yet was considered one nation.
That you have intentionally twisted words from LCG’s and COGWA’s to make it appear that #2 and #3 are false.
That you have intentionally manipulated the words of a minister who anointed you because you were seeking a specific confirmation for what your heart lusted after.
Because, until you can do this, I will not even consider taking down that post. People must be warned about the false teacher that you are.
Make no mistake about it, God will judge between me and thee.
Here are some more articles that John D wrote about the greatest Church of God leader to ever exist in human history:
Pastor General David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God fancies himself as the prophesied ruler over God’s people in the End Times, so it is little surprise that he now uses a literal wooden ruler to measure the arrival of the Kingdom of God.
With the conclusion of “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 477)” on October 28, 2023, the Series is now over…again. This also happens to mean all the drills are over, too. So, that is enough practice, brethren. This will be the last date you will EVER need to scribble in your notebook to cross out later.
The Kingdom of God Arrives
Cheshvan 20 – November 4, 2023
Sunset…dawn…Jerusalem time?
This is a certainty because the all-wise, all-knowing ruler has spoken. No, not Dave. The new red line beside the old one makes it all true. If you get lost on which line is the right one, do not even worry about it.
Part 477 – October 28, 2023
@ 00:17 Helps to sit down. I love to stand up when I speak. I can be more animated and natural, but I’ve got so much paper, um [throat clear].
David C. Pack lies so much now that we could wonder if he is no longer allowed to speak the truth anymore. Not only does he not "love to stand up" when he preaches, but you can count three sheets of paper on the table. Three sheets of paper for the entire 114 minutes. Yeah, gotta sit down.
I call shenanigans. Dave just wants to press ham. End of story. But why did he feel the need to lie about it? It is not what he does any longer. It is who he is.
@ 10:25 This is Part 477 of what has never really been “The Prophetic Series.” I’ve called it “The Prophecy Series.” It should have always been called “The Plan of God Series or Maybe The Whole Plan of God Series.” From the arrival of the First Kingdom till the devil’s death. That probably woulda been the best name for it. Of course, "The Greatest, you know, um Untold Story uh Series" is not bad either.But it's not as good as "The Whole Plan of God Series."
It only took Dave 480+ messages spanning eight years to finally figure out what he was actually doing. The implication for this new truth is that when brethren leave, they are not complaining about prophecy. They are complaining about the "other doctrinal stuff."
I did not leave The Restored Church of God in March 2021 over prophecy. I left because Dave kept mucking with Jesus Christ and the Father. After Ed "Stepford Prime" Winkfield started parroting Dave and regurgitating his idol's ideas, I knew it was time to leave.
You see, if the Series is not about prophecy, then Dave cannot be a false prophet. Ahhhh….
@ 23:06 All right, now let’s return for a moment to the subject of One Month. I didn’t address the extra seven days in the last message because I was still examining it. For now, it turns out, it was nothing. So, set it aside. [chuckles] You’ll see where we’re going.
The Kingdom of God not arriving on schedule can be brushed off with a chuckle. Turns out, it was nothing.
This admission gives exrcg.org further validation because it has been noted several times that when Dave gives “hints” but does not explain, he is stalling. He will tell the brethren he knows something, but then you find out he did not, or he never mentions it again. He is not intentionally building dramatic suspense that will eventually benefit the brethren. He just does not know but wants so badly for people to think he does.
Dave tricks RCG members into thinking he knows something special because it makes him special in their eyes. He gets the glory without doing the work. Or being right.
One of his biggest teases as of late was the identity of the Three Shepherds of Zechariah 11:8. He has been bashing his own fingers with that prophetic hammer since 2012. If you were at Headquarters back then, you could put the pieces together to narrow down his top contenders even when he publicly denied it.
Gerald Flurry, Roderick Meredith, and Dennis Luker.
Two are dead, and the third needs to stay clear of wet bathtubs.
The current Three Shepherds topic is very telling of how The Restored Church of God operates as a religious organization. It does not just clue you into how David C. Pack thinks; it lets people know what Headquarters thinks. Those people support and enable a blaspheming liar and are at peace with it.
Part 475 – October 12, 2023
@ 13:19 There are Three Shepherds who die at the end of One Month. Tomorrow, I’m gonna tell you who I think the Bible actually says they are. And they die at the end of One Month. I don’t have time to get into that today. It's not my purpose.
Notice he said, “I don’t have time.” The implication was that he already knew about the One Month. But, sixteen days later, “…turns out, it was nothing.”
@ 1:27:47 So, my job is to be plain tomorrow.
David C. Pack did not do his job on October 13 as he kept repeating he would. Brethren were left to wonder about the Three Shepherds. Thankfully, a Prophecy Update spelled everything out.
Prophecy Update – October 13, 2023
Brethren, after considering the enormous weight and scope of the many subjects addressed yesterday, I and my team realized that there was just no real need to add more. Unlike previous messages, a group of about 12 ministers came up afterwards, stunned and amazed at the size of all that was covered. I ended with a pretty big hint about timing and cannot really improve on it, other than to carefully detail points we are mostly familiar with. If God wants this terrible war to continue, then there are things I could add later, after unfolding events in the middle east and world at large might further inform us. Anyone watching with our understanding knows that sooner or later this will tumble into a world war if God did not intervene. For now, add Ezekiel 28:19 (I neglected to include reading it) to the proof of yesterday’s last subject.
David C. Pack
No mention of the Three Shepherds who die in One Month.
Surely, Special Comments on the Sabbath of October 14 would finally shed the much-desired light on this eleven-year-old mystery. Nope.
This message was damage control because Dave knew in advance that the Kingdom of God would not arrive on October 16.
Special Comments – October 14, 2023
@ 01:33 But, apparently, God wanted the church to know tonight. In a certain sense (I wanna say this carefully), please relax. But we needed a smoking gun. It came.
@ 02:05 Tomorrow will pass quietly except for ever-worsening world hell and trouble.
@ 04:01 Soon after tomorrow, (I'll put it this way) it could feel day-to-day before events could scream we're hour-to-hour. We’re already, of course, seeing the day approaching.
There is plenty of opportunity for fear-mongering but no time for the Three Shepherds or the One Month.
After six days, was David C. Pack finally ready to address the identity of the men the Bible actually says they are?
Prophecy Update – October 18, 2023
Dear brethren,
Mr. Pack plans to wait until the Sabbath before speaking. The additional time will allow events to continue to mature, permitting more detailed analysis. Again, there is still time!
He has powerful additional elements to explain, similar to a week ago.
Warm regards,
Church Administration
Well, at least he will get to it on the Sabbath. It would be super nice to finally cross that off the Bucket List.
Part 476 – October 21, 2023
@ 55:25 Nobody ever understood any a this. This is some of the biggest knowledge there’s ever been to understand. And without it, I was never gonna be able to pin all these things down.
@ 1:22:55 Now, it’s not my purpose today to get into those Three Shepherds. We’re gonna address them (more than a little) in the middle of the week.
David C. Pack did not address them (at all) in the middle of the week because the middle of the week did not happen. The brethren had to wait another seven days to get the answers they were waiting for.
To summarize:
October 12 – The initial tease with a promise of “tomorrow.”
October 13 – Prophecy Update saying no updates are needed.
October 14 – Comments only Special to Dave facilitate damage control.
October 18 – Dave is not ready to speak because there is more time.
October 21 – Another tease with a promise of a mid-week “more than a little.”
October 28 – The worst payoff in the history of prophetic teasers.
Part 477 – October 28, 2023
@ 23:06 All right, now let’s return for a moment to the subject of One Month. I didn’t address the extra seven days in the last message because I was still examining it. For now, turns out, it was nothing. So, set it aside. [chuckles]
@ 26:52 So, there is no One Month clouding our ability to figure out (we're gonna talk about “the midst of the years” here in a minute). It's just not there.
@ 39:34 I told you I’d name the Three Shepherds. I already did. So, anyway, it's much more critical to know when they are killed than who they are.I don’t know two of them.I still had some questions. There may be people who die at the end of this affliction. We'll see how that is.
STOP!
Insert the classic record scratch sound effect here. Whoa, whoa, whoa. He did NOT name ANY of the Three Shepherds. Not one. I have been waiting to hear that right alongside the brethren.
At this point in the message, I stopped and went all the way back to the very beginning and listened to Part 477 a second time. (Some have wondered how I stomach listening to Dave. I often have him at 2.5x speed and increase his pitch to sound like a chipmunk. That way, he is not nearly so grating.)
Either Dave “accidentally” skipped that part in his massive paper pile consisting of 3-pages of notes, or he secretly mentioned the One-Of-Three Shepherds but chose to not clue in anyone he did it. Perhaps he whispered it in dog whistle frequency. This was a raw recording, so it was not cut out after the fact.
Up to this point in Part 477, he mentioned a few names. If David C. Pack spoke the truth (that is a huge IF these days), then One-Of-Three Shepherds must be:
Nikki Haley, Benjamin Netanyahu, Vladimir Putin, or maybe “evangelical ministers.”
Those are the only options, and none of them fit. The Prime Minister of Israel may have referenced Isaiah in the news article, but he is not a shepherd. So, the members of The Restored Church of God will be left to their own devices to figure out who Dave was talking about.
And maybe they should remember the next time he goads them into thinking he knows something, they should expect he is buying time because he does not.
@ 39:34 I told you I’d name the Three Shepherds. I already did…I don’t know two of them.
Three Shepherds is not a title. It is a number. You cannot already name all three if you do not know two of them. Is anyone in The Restored Church of God paying attention to the words that come out of this guy’s mouth?
David C. Pack tells people everything they need to hear to know if he is of God or not.
The Kingdom of God is all set to arrive on November 3-ish. You will need to calculate sunset, dawn, and Jerusalem time. This is not a drill. The timer is already rolling on the exrcg.org homepage. Wolf down as much Halloween candy as you can before then.
@ 39:20 Again, I’m gonna give you a lot more proofs that the Kingdom of God arrives in Cheshvan and years are measured off of Cheshvan.
@ 52:08 But, another six points that will help you understand Cheshvan 1 next year (or in any year that God would've done it) is the Day of the Lord. I just want you to be absolutely clear for other reasons, and it will help us begin to look at when this acceptable year starts.
I had to chuckle when Dave developed a new catchphrase to further pad his excuse packaging.
@ 1:13:59 Now, are we exactly right per “the midst of the years?” Now, are we exactly right?
It seems that Bible prophecy is now just like math, spelling, and measurements. Who’d have thunk “right” had an inherent range baked into it? You can be not exactly right, but in the neighborhood of right, which still makes you right. Just not exactly right.
This way, David C. Pack is always right even when he is not exactly right.
@ 1:14:11 Now, are we waiting for tomorrow morning?
Because he pushed off Part 477 until the Sabbath, he answered the question before he asked it.
@ 1:19:05 We know the Day of the Lord is Cheshvan 1, and it starts in this thing called "in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years." Okay, so let's talk about it. This becomes our question: Can we know?
@ 1:20:48 …that would put you at Monday, dawn. Sunday night. Tomorrow night. Now, that’s for starters. I wanna just say that. That’s what it would that’s what it would do. We gotta see if there’s any qualifiers.This is not a regular year, so God’s gonna qualify midst of the years. Then we gotta figure out how He does it.
@ 1:37:18 So, this year it wouldn’t be the 15th [Cheshvan], it would be the 20th. You can’t go to the 27th to the last Sabbath of the month, or you overshot the midst of the years.
Calculating the precise moment will rattle your brain. By the time you enjoy your coffee Saturday morning, David C. Pack will have failed again.
@ 1:54:11 So, that’s one more verse that says we’ve absolutely got this right. And we’ve got about (what would it be?) It would be next Friday night. We’ve got about six days to go and a few hours. So, enjoy your dinner.
The biblical drills in The Restored Church of God are over. David C. Pack set aside his Magic 8 Ball to conjure the spirits who guide his prophetic ruler to point in the direction of "the midst of the years."
Instead of "Cheshvan 20" it really said, “Ask again later.” The ruler of RCG has spoken.
