Wednesday, May 22, 2013

Why Are There No Happy People In The COG That Do Good????

A reader on Gavin's blog made the following comment:

"I have come to realise that nothing is better for people than to be happy and to do good while they live. (Eccl. 3:12)"

Yet I challenge anyone to name a happy person or one that does good.
Apparently there are NO happy people anywhere in the world  and certainly not one single human on the entire planet that does good.  Everyone is just miserable human filth that is destined to the worm pile to be eaten by maggots.  Such a lovely outlook on life from a typical right wing Armstrongite.


Anonymous said...

I tend to agree. I found the COGs such a sad lot I would find better comfort at a funeral. At least the JWs, which is a much worse cult in many respects, appear to be a happy lot.

Joe Moeller said...

I guess by the blog standard here, that would make me a "Leftwing Armstrongite" ;-)

Joe Moeller

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Tom Mahon said on Otagosh, ""I have come to realise that nothing is better for people than to be happy and to do good while they live. (Eccl. 3:12)"

Yet I challenge anyone to name a happy person or one that does good.

MY COMMENT - I find it fascinating that such a comment would come from Tom Mahon of all people. Tom, the ultimate defender of God's Apostle HWA use to speak derogatory comments about me, Dennis Diehl, Douglas Becker, Corky and others at his "Against The Hireling" website which no one but Tom ever reads.

He once made a negative comment about Dennis Diehl's haircut in a picture on the old Ambassador Watch website which lead to a bunch of us challenging Tom to show us a picture of himself. Well, sure enough, Tom eventually did publish his picture. The power of the internet!

Mahon use to end each of his posts on Ambassador Watch with some sort of bizarre phrase that I can't remember right now.


Lake of Fire Church of God said...

I just went to Tom Mahon's Against the Hirelings website, and the bizarre phrase I referred to in my previous post was found on Tom's website:

"I shall remain at Mizpah until desolation overspreads the land".


Anonymous said...


you are so much not your typical Armstrongite that I even wonder sometimes if you really are a "True Armstrongite". You seem to be a free thinking person who just happens to have a few personal opinion that are more Sabbatarian and "armstrongish" I think. I could definately do lunch with someone like you without worries about conversation, and I think it would go well actually.

Take that as a compliment, as that is what is intended. :)

Byker Bob said...

Happiness is an emotion. It is very rarely a permanent condition.
It pops up with varying frequencies, and often provides contrast. In a sense, it is irrational to want to be happy 100% of the time.

Having said that, back any number of years ago when I first became aware of the internet, and the ongoing analyses of the Armstrong problem or experience, it is something I dissected and reassembled through my writings and articles.

The basic problem is that in creating a need for his cult, Herbert W. Armstrong deliberately tarnished and removed all of the things one would normally look to to put the joy in life, and caused his followers to focus soley on his miserable (quite literally) church. You couldn't have a future, because the Germans would be rolling through soon, your family meant nothing because they were unconverted and not to be looked to, everything around you was infected with ancient Babylonian paganism, and planet Earth was winding down and just about finished. Buying material things, or spending money on fun activities couldn't even be an antidote, because anyone spending money on self was programmed to feel incredible guilt that they had not sent the money to Herb. You didn't plan your life, career, and education, or retirement, because there would be none.

I've had quite a number of Jewish friends, and to a person, they've been totally unable to equate the gloom, doom, and misery of classic WCG to their Torah-based customs and rituals, because these have brought much joy and happiness into the lives of Jews around the world for millennia. Some of these folks sensed kinship with me at first, but sensed a total breakdown of cause and effect with their customs to the misery we all suffered in WCG. So this goes way beyond being OC observant. It's a whole extra layer of baggage somewhat unique to the Herbert W. Armstrong "spiritual" experience, although dissertations on their so-called 18 restored truths do not attempt to explain or treat it. In Armstrong parlance, it would be present due to your own bad attitude, or the influence of Satan, most definitely not caused by their theology.

I believe that there is a Holy Spirit, and I believe there are definite fruits of the Holy Spirit, some of which are peace and joy. What does it tell us about a group if these things are totally absent, or if the group is taught that they will not be experienced until Jesus Christ returns to establish Armstrongism as God's government from the top down for the Millennium and all eternity?

I come to realize that happiness in any of the branches is just as accidental as conversion. It is something that happens in spite of the teaching. Generally, people who feel redeemed, rescued, and empowered by God have an irresistable desire to do good by sharing God's blessings with others. Actually, that is not only done because one is happy, it actually produces additional happiness, knowing that God has used you to make a difference in the lives of some of His children.
People who are missing out on this aren't doing it because they know the truth and have the Holy Spirit, that would be a gross deception. It's more like they actually have the spirit of Franz Kafka.

It's also been my experience (and this is really counterintuitive!) that atheists as a group feel more joy, peace, and happiness than do Armstrongites. I think that's another reason why non-belief has become such a compelling solution to the Armstrong problem, way ahead of the curve as compared to the general population.


Anonymous said...

long, long ago in the 1960's I remember being happy at the various Holy Days. There was so much to eat, and I even got to drink wine, and then I got to see my friends there. Also I got to fall asleep in the long afternoon sermon amid fantasies of one day being a world ruler and flying around the universe. I was only a kid then and didn't have to pay tithes, after my coming of age, the happiness sort of faded -- something to do with not being able to date and having to wear funny clothes, and being forced to be weird.

Anonymous said...

there are a number of us that are not "Armstrongites", but truly worship God.

we are able to distinguish between God's instructions and man's....and yes, there is still too much "Armstrong" preached, but as those folks die out, so will the "Armstrongism".

I am thankful that the organization I am affilitated with is sorting out the truth from what HWA taught....Herbert got a lot right, but he got a lot wrong too.

I guess that the biggest error we've gotten rid of is 3rd tithe....oh we still help those in need, but we understand that an extra tithe every 3 years is not what the bible instructs.....the 7yr cycle is lost, so there is no way to keep the 3rd tithe (something Dr. Bob conviently overlooks).

"church eras"...."makeup"...."men
'ruling' their houses"...etc., we've tossed them all out, along with quite a few others.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous from 7:13, if you toss out enough things then what is the point of even being in a group descended from Armstrong, why not start all over again and join some totally new group? I see the basis of Armstrongism as being: the endtime prophecies, British Israelism, the Sabbath, all the tithes, control of everyones sexuality, mostly rightwing political beliefs..... well maybe you still have some of these beliefs. Either you believe Armstrong was from God or wasn't, he can't be half from God.
As for third tithe, there is no justification for any tithe that is not totally voluntary.

Anonymous said...

I know people who have peace and joy in their lives, as well as being very helpful to others, and they are gay Christians and live their lives as fine examples to others who have eyes to see.

Anonymous said...

we believe that HWA was a man, just like the rest of us....there was nothing special about him.

he wasn't a prophet, or apostle, or had any other special title.

there is a learning curve, and not eveyone moves at the same takes time, and we're working our way thru the maze.

all of us didn't come out of the Sunday tradition the same time...but at least we did, and we're moving forward into God's traditions.

Byker Bob said...

Thinking a bit more over night, it occurs to me that the degree to which you receive healing from all of the problems inherent with Armstrongism is the degree to which happiness can return to your life.

A bit more research, history, and science easily shows that the Germans cannot be Assyrian. Genetics, and history prove that the U.S. is not primarily Anglo Saxon in genetic origin, let alone modern day Israel by genetics. Now, it should be noted that to the degree that the US is a Christian nation, it is modern day Israel, but not in any way because of British Israelism.

You can also do deeper Bible study and come to a much deeper and spiritually rewarding concept of the reality of the New Covenant.

But, probably the single most difficult area of recovery is family. People have long memories about watching horrible child abuse, being shunned, and having all of the traditional family get togethers abandoned or ruined. It is often possible to forgive, but one of the worst and most destructive things to healing and happiness is when some of your family remains fanatical and inflexible about their Armstrongism. In so many cases, in order for families to be really brought back together and healed, we're going to have to wait for Jesus to straighten all of the error out in the Kingdom. Until then, we've got to just accept the fact that Armstrongism is the gift that keeps on giving negative gifts.


Joe Moeller said...

In Response to Anon at 6:49 above:

Actually, although I am a Sabbatarian, Im really not an Armstrongite. I feel that HWA and GTA were leaders of the most failed COG in history. I am not fans of the Armstrongs in any way,. I am greatly against one man rule, and against anyone who claims to be a "Biblical Character", whereever this is found.

I would have been a great fit for the COG 7th Day, and find these folks to be a mellow and healthy bunch overall. However, my destiny was to end up in the WCG, back in the day, as fate would have it.

I like people, from all walks of life and enjoy them. There is something to learn from everyone. I also do not judge too hard, for I knew early on that if you "go light on others" , God goes light on you. I love righteousness, and have always lived a "squares" life, but again, what good does judging and condemning others do?

In fact, life and our purpose is not just about "us" bur rather about "them". God does not need me. He allows us to participate in the miracle. Love and kindness and empathy are the way to influence and persuade others. Works on me!

I have always been considered a rogue in the Church. Yet I have endured and have muscled for changes and enlightenments. It has not always been easy. I work from within, right in the trenches.

UCG is arguably the most enlightened of the Armstrong legacy churches. It is at least trying to "get it" , and learning to embrace grace, forgiveness and progressive thinking. There is a lot of baggage, there is no doubt about it. There is a lot of work to still be done, admittedly. However, there is progress being made, albeit, not fast enough for me, but I have hope for this group. Again, I am working from within, and have made good inputs.

I ask for forgiveness of torts, mismanagements, and errors. There is still some bad legacy. The ship is turning slowly, but I think the heading is getting closer to being right on.

We are survivors of an interesting journey together. Does this not make us fellow brothers and sisters in some strange way? Only those of us who have lived it can understand it.

To anyone here, Im sure we would have a good and interesting lunch together. We will just check our guns in at the door! LOL!

Your Friend,
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Joe Moeller said...

Byker Bob Above:

Seeing the United States as a "type" of Israel, makes a whole lot more sense than trying to say that the United States is "genetic" Israel.

We were a nation founded on much of the Biblical God. We put "In God We Trust" on our money. We swear in Presidents on Bibles. We say formal Christian prayers before Senate and House meetings to this day.

By these standards we are "grafted in" as Paul said. This goes for people of every race and color here in the United States. E Pluribus Unum, out of many , came one.

Joe Moeller
Cody, WY

Anonymous said...

Byker Bob said: "Happiness is an emotion. It is very rarely a permanent condition.
It pops up with varying frequencies, and often provides contrast. In a sense, it is irrational to want to be happy 100% of the time."

I agree with you on this, was it Thomas Jefferson who was responsible for the words of the founders that stated that we have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Happiness is something we seek, search for and work toward, joy is the spirit of being and according to the New Testament a fruit of the Spirit.

I don't think someone who writes like this speaks for all Armstrongites, but there are others who are rather miserable in the CoGs for sure. I see joy in people I meet all the time, tempered with a reality of having to work hard and long for what you want, with the occasional doing good for others, after you have taken care of your own.

I cannot imagine a more grateful and giving people than Americans when others are going through disasters, and they are happy to do so.

Anonymous said...

"Im really not an Armstrongite"

That's great!
Has your UCG church taken down the large portrait of HWA that hangs prominently at their HQ, yet?

If not, Joe, please keep us apprised of your efforts to have them remove that graven image.

Anonymous said...

This evil world sucks! But it will be better when I die and help JC rule with an iron rod. Then I'll show the sinners a thing or two. They will see then how perfect I am compared to them. Come on Jesus and appear in the clouds, soon, yes soon... just a few more years.