Thursday, November 19, 2015

Rod Meredith: Why Is He Incapable Of Loving Servant Leadership?



For well over 70 years now Rod Meredith has been bellowing about government, control and authority from the top down.  It has always been more important him to use power to lord it over people than to be a serving servant to the people.  On top of that he is not even a true shepherd of the flock.  He doesn't care about even the least of his members.

Every few years I hear from some of our men on the West Coast, and elsewhere it's happening – some back in the Midwest – but every few years Satan comes around stirring up people to try to argue about counting Pentecost, or counting the Passover, or they talk about the sacred names or something like that. They manage to get upset about something and it seems like it goes in cycles; a few year will go by then the same thing will pop up that we discussed with Mr. Armstrong, and sometimes even back then the whole Council of Elders, and thought it was all settled. But people get mixed up on these things and we do need to have strong leadership in God's Church, and a strong understanding of these things to keep our balance. Because Satan is going to come at us with all kinds of things to think about and get upset about, believe me.
Satan always seems to be on the warpath against Meredith for some reason.  Of all the hundreds and hundreds of Churches of God out there to wage war against, Satan always has to pick on Meredith and crew.

In his sermon he rambles on with a lot of incoherent babble till he gets to this. Apparently some in the LCG are getting sucked back into the mythology of the sacred names and new moons legalism. This is another one of his reason to enforce authority upon his members and rule with an iron hand.  He validates his authority by claiming the scriptures were translated wrong and inserts his interpretation so as to give credence to LCG overlords deciding what is right or wrong.

The weekly Sabbath, coming every seventh day, is a type of the Millennium. The 7,000-year period, a time to rest from sin, it's definitely a type of that. And of course the annual Holy Days picture, step by step, various aspects of the plan of God, and so they "are a shadow of things to come, but the body…" or, "the substance," it says, "is of Christ." And the Greek word here, brethren, in this verse 17 – look it up yourself – is soma, s-o-m as in Mary, s-o-m-a. Now that same word exactly is used back in this same book, here in verse 18 of chapter 1; it talks about Christ being the head of the Church, "He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he may have the preeminence." The Greek word is "body." it means the basic physical structure. So it talks about that being, of course, applied to God's Church; we are the physical structure that God is using today. When Christ was on Earth he had his own physical body; he does not have a physical body today, he works through us, we are his body. So don't let any substance or something like that judge you, but the body of Christ. And when you understand it makes sense; the Bible is not translated correctly here, it's talking about the body of Christ. Who judges you? The body of Christ. Who leads the body of Christ? The ministry, as we'll see as we go through this chapter and this whole subject. The ministry leads the body, and so the Church makes decisions as to how we keep – we don't change the Holy Days – but we make decisions about when they're held and where they're held, and we make decisions about what we can eat or not eat, or if we're going to have snacks or not have snacks, or all kinds of things to do with the body and with the Church of God and how we observe these Holy Days. So don't let any man judge you, but the body, the structure, the body of Christ which is the Church of God. And so that's an important thing to understand in this passage: the body of Christ does have that authority and they are given that authority by God. 

So there you have it folks!  No man can judge you, but the church certainly can!  The church has the right to tell you everything you will be doing.  There are no exceptions to the rule.

He then continues whining about those that don't bring their doctrinal questions to the church and instead run to others that will actually listen to them. LCG members should never be running to theses people because God has set aside the MEN in the one and only true church to make all the decisions.  MEN are to make the judgments in the Living Church of God.  That's why Rod McNair, Meredith and others have turned into such tyrannical beasts of prey.  They have been set into position of power where they assume they have all the answers and that the lowly members are nothing more than pond scum.

Now let's go to something we often refer to, but I want to talk about this aspect a lot today, turn back to 1 Corinthians chapter 6, 1 Corinthians (sipping tea) 1 Corinthians chapter 6 in your New Testament here, and you'll notice in verse 1 the apostle Paul tells the Christians, "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints?" You're to go before the Church of God when you have a disagreement about how to count the Passover, how to observe the Sabbath, how to keep the Holy Days, all kinds of things, but even if you have personal disputes we're to come there also. "Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" Aren't you able to be judges? You're training to be judges forever in God's Kingdom. Know God's Church is to learn that today; all of you in this room are to learn that. "Do you not know that we shall judge angels?" We're going to judge the angelic hosts through all eternity if we're in God's family. "How much more, the things that pertain to this life? If then you have judgments concerning thing pertain to this life, do you appoint…" or some translations have it as applied, "WHY do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church…" Why do you go to outsiders who don't even know the truth; why would you have them try to be your judges? "I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?" So we are to learn to be wise judges – God has intended that men know that – and that men are able to make judgments in the Church of God

Meredith and crew have the capability to make ALL the decisions in the LCG as to how church members are to believe.  None dare question that mode of thinking  because to do so is to question god himself.

 ...we have to make binding decisions as to how to observe the Holy Days, what days they are to be observed upon, and all this kind of thing; whether we should eat or not eat, or how much and so on. So, "Whatever you bind on earth shall be loosed, whatever you loose on earth shall be bound."
Then to further intimidate LCG members, Meredith claims that everything he and his ministers do is bound in heaven.  He also has the capability of stripping away LCG members salvation and standing with god, just because he says so, his god will do it in heaven.  In other words, LCG members are eternally screwed!

"Moreover if your brother sins against you…" now this is not just a judgment about Holy Days, this is a judgment about some personal offense; people are causing trouble – John starts flirting and carrying on with Joe's wife, and Joe's upset, what does he do? He could go punch John in the nose, but the right Christian thing to do is to go face to face with him [and] say, "You're gettin' too friendly BACK OFF, that's my wife," and if he won't back off you take one or two leading brethren with you – preferably two, "so in the mouth of two or three witnesses (it) will be established," whatever the offense is. So he says you're to do that and to have two or three witnesses. "And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church." Do you go announce it, do you ask Mr. McNair, "Can I make the announcement that Joe was bothering me?" No you don't do that, you tell it to the leadership of the church, and all the way through the Bible that's in fact what they did do. "Tell it to the church…" they are to make the judgment, "But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector." You don't have regular fellowship with him, he's not in the church anymore, he's deliberately left the church in his actions. "Assuredly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth…" Jesus Christ said, talking to his ministry, his leaders, "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. And I say to you…" verse 19, "that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in My name…" you see, to make some judgment, to be used by God. It doesn't mean whenever two or three brethren get together at a movie, or a skating rink, that he's with them in some special way – he's with us all the time – but he's especially those leaders who would be together in judgment. So he says, "I will be with them, whenever two or three are gathered together in My name…" in Christ's authority to make these judgments, "I am there in the midst of them." So Christ guides this as we shall see, and as God did all the way through the Bible, and we do need to clearly understand that. 
In the above quote Meredith also claims to profess that members have the right to go to the church to have their voice heard.  Sadly that has never been an avenues most LCG members could take without repercussions.  The slamming down of hammer has been swift and severe against those that the church labels as trouble makers.  LCG members have never had any recourse when McNair and others go on their purge campaigns.  No recourse whatsoever!

 




52 comments:

Martha said...

Ugh. There is absolutely, positively no way that Colossians 2:17 means that the body of Christ, i.e. the church, can judge you. Neither logic nor proper grammar supports it. Try to make that argument from other passages if you must, but definitely not that one.

http://asbereansdid.blogspot.com/2014/09/word-games.html

Otis campbell said...

What an eye opener. Now where have I heard that before, catholic doctrine.
I was told by a priest as a kid, that translating the bible should be done by the people in Rome. Same as rod, only no bible study unless a minister is present
Dictatorial government from top down same as Rome. contrary to Math 20:25,26.
Rod will Math 7:22,23 apply to you and your so called disciples?

Enough is enough, roddy my boy.

Anonymous said...

Everything that Meredith said in that last passage is a bald face lie. Yes, it's written in the Bible that way but LCG in NO WAY adheres to that admonition in Matthew 18.

LCG ministry have openly stated that "Mathew 18 doesn't apply to the ministry".

And can someone show me where we can infer from scripture that the "wherever 2 or 3 meet in My name" verse ONLY applies to LCG ministry?

We all know that LCG has put people out on the allegation that they were having "private Bible studies" and that LCG's official rule is that a minister must be present for all Bible discussions (to prevent wrong understanding, of course).

Once again, according to Spanky, it's always Satan attacking the church when things don't go RCM's way. I have seldom seen ANYONE OR ANY GROUP less capable of accepting personal responsibility. Have they not read the scripture, "you will reap what you sow"?.

Meredith has sown years of mean, vindictive, abusive use of power. When you do bad things to dozens (if not hundreds) of people, karma can be a real bitch. It's not Satan Roddy.

Anonymous said...

I was an LCG member who was kicked out and accused of causing division. The Bible says that the accused should be afforded the opportunity to face one's accusers. Although I made several requests to meet with my accuser(s) with the ministry present, all requests were refused. Leaving me to believe that McNair either completely made up the allegations so there were no actual accusers to meet with. Or, that LCG gets to pick and choose who has to follow the rules Christ left us with in His word.

DennisCDiehl said...

As noted: "Sadly that has never been an avenues most LCG members could take without repercussions."

Old Testament equivalent: "Well Korah...thank you for your input and with ideas like that, really big things will be opening up for you..."

Anonymous said...

Has RCM ever had to face their accusers or defend their position? I don't think so. They remain in their little bubble where no one can touch them. What former members marched on public property in front of their HQ with signs showing RCM with a Hitler mustache accusing him and his team of hypocrisy etc. Perhaps the local news media will show up and get some footage for their evening news. They need to be held accountable.

Black Ops Mikey said...

It's a cult that has nothing to do with God, so what do you expect?

Connie Schmidt said...

FOR OUR SPANISH BRETHREN...

El Rod-O es el stupido!

Anonymous said...

Translation: "We decide about any and all upgrades like the wedding supper and falling away. We decide if God thinks it's awesome if we worship him from a Pagan Temple. We decide if your brothers and sisters should be cast to Satan or deserve another chance"

Lay members aren't high and mighty enough to even discuss such issues. To do so would show a lack of loyalty and faith in "God's ministers". Watch yourselves LCG members or you will be stamped with the "causing division label". A crime worthy of disfellowshipment in Meredith land.

Anonymous said...

Why would Rod Meredith bring up Mr. Armstrong's name?

Rod said: "...a few year will go by then the same thing will pop up that we discussed with Mr. Armstrong, and sometimes even back then the whole Council of Elders, and thought it was all settled. But people get mixed up on these things and we do need to have strong leadership in God's Church, and a strong understanding of these things to keep our balance..."

Rod left the WCG in 1993 to form Global, which subsequently imploded/exploded and does not exist today to my knowledge. Rod left his credentials behind when he left WCG and was no longer a "little helper," or hireling supporting Joe Tkach Senior. What happened? Did Rod not like the strong leadership of Joe Tkach Sn in 1993? But he wants strong leadership now that he is in charge!????????

Jesus Christ did not speak very highly of hirelings. In fact, comment was made that Rod Meredith "...doesn't care about even the least of his members..."

And what did Jesus Christ say?

"The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep." John 10:13

So, Rod Meredith, who isn't even a hireling (having left his credentials back with WCG) wants to tell us how his ministry should lord it over a flock of sheep.

The hirelings should be guiding God's sheep.......not ruling over them like some lord.

Again, what did Jesus Christ say about the sheep, His Father's sheep - not some sheep that hirelings think they somehow own?

:12 "But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep."

That verse along shows that the sheep do not belong to the hirelings. Well, Rod was a hireling. And yes, he fled WCG.

Oh, and there is that "wolf" amongst the sheep! Maybe Rod has a point regarding Satan bothering sheep. Well, Rod was a sheep....and he fled.......and it appears Rod enjoys spreading his form of Fear Religion in his man-made organization.

For Rod and his latest man-made organization, Jesus has these words:

"...Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." Matthew 15:13

Time is "speeding up," so Rod says..........and time will tell!

John

Anonymous said...

Did Meredith really say:

When Christ was on Earth he had his own physical body; he does not have a physical body today

Apparently, Rod's God is just a formless hypostasis, not a Person. On the other hand, if what he's saying is that you need a physical human body, not a spirit body, to teach and discipline physical human beings, how will the God-beings in the Kingdom of God do their teaching and disciplining?

Either Rod just disproved WCG's old teaching about the Kingdom of God, or he is a heretic who no longer worships the same God HWA taught him to worship.

How do LCG members tolerate such confusion?

Byker Bob said...

Some of the problems are that the scam never seems to get around to verifying itself, by actually kicking in. Back in the '60s, I understand that there was something called "creeper weed" that supposedly had a delayed reaction, but would eventually kick in and hit a toker like a ton of bricks! But, it's been forty years now since 1975, so Armstrongism isn't even "creeper".

Then, it was all preached by some really bad people, with horrible fruits! The dad continually nailed his daughter during the time period when the restored doctrines were supposedly being "revealed", was frequently drunk, had legendary and very public anger management issues, and in later life, kept a log of his masturbatory episodes. (This is the man in whose valence uncle Roddy chooses to operate?). And, apparently the son screwed everything that moved, even while allegedly giving some of the most inspired sermons in the history of the church.

And then there is the arrogance and lack of patience with the brethren. What would be wrong with patiently explaining doctrinal matters which are being questioned? Well, the answer to that is that just about the time someone has their minister backed into a corner, and he knows it, the authority just happens to kick in! As in, "Why, you are out of God's church!"

If the Armstrong prophecy mold ever gets around to kicking in, most people will probably be saying, "Oh, shit!!! This is all the stuff that those absolutely horrible people were saying would happen!"

BB

Anonymous said...

Rod's in for a rude awakening.

Scared by LCG said...

Spanky’s gub’ment sucks!

He demands all our cake and gives no cheese.

Spanky likes to lord it all over us so, there’s no room for Lord Jesus.
For those who are in Christ, there’s no condemnation! Not even from Spanky’s flying butt monkey ministry!

Spanky’s wise judgments have decimated countless families yet, he still thinks people should kiss his ass all the way to complete obedience to his stupidity.

He re-writes the Holy Scriptures just to take the power hit that fuels his furious rape of the brethren’s souls.

Spanky spanks with a hammer!

Anonymous said...

Mr Meredith is a wonderful kind hearted and very thoughtful man. He has the biggest heart and has dedicated nearly all his life teaching biblical truth and a very high proportion of all the cog's and their members respect him very much including what he has to say.

He heads the largest cog church, started from virtually nothing and which has grown to a worldwide work with ministers serving members all around the globe and that says a lot about how much people really do love and respect him.

The Living University is another fine example of how serious the church is in teaching excellence in moral conduct and biblical truth. Open your eyes and try and tell me that this work isnt being blessed.

So what have the finger pointers that always whine and complain on this scrappy unfactual blog ever achieved? I'll tell you what besides their complaining, nothing, and so in their jealousy they congure up lies, just like a bunch of school yard bullies that need a good beating.

Now the regular dissidents who troll this poor quality blog that by the way never really produces any facts on what it posts will naturally disagree because they just cant accept the success of this very caring man and the great work being done.

They find it hard to sleep at night, tossing and turning thinking about the next negative comment they might be able to post. One that might have a real impact and upset somebody.

The truth is,some church members do come here, yes they do mainly to see what satan is using this site for and secondly so that they can pray for those who are decieved.

Lcg grows stronger every week and the message is getting preached. Check the facts as they are available to everyone, including how the churches finances are spent. It's all in the open.

Your blog needs to stop decieving people and exagerating and blowing all facts out of proportion. In all your whinging you and your dissidents can and never will stop this great work being done under the leadership of Jesus Christ. It only continues to get stronger and I know that upsets you. You really do need to get over it and find real happiness in your lives so you're not all so negative about everything.

Scared by LCG said...

The evil Spanky has never apologized for his deadly Divorce & Remarriage policy.

That is not kindhearted – that is arrogance, like that of Satan.

Spanky never apologized for his pleas to send in the money because certain things would happen in the next five to seven years – and citing God as his authority and assurance these things would happen as he said they would.

That is not kindhearted – that is a pattern of lying, like Satan, Spanky’s father of lies.

Those are FACTS!

Scared by LCG said...

For the past few years, LCG has been teaching that the end will not come until LCG is well known all over the world!

LCG is miniscule and not even the largest COG. If Spanky had big numbers, he’d be boasting about them.

The reason LCG does not publish the numbers of members at each FOT and local congregation is because the numbers are dwindling. Spanky can say the church is growing but, he’d be exposed if he printed exact numbers at locations – because the locals would see the lies.

Death due, to old age, and life, due to people coming to their senses are proving God is not working to build LCG. LCG’s end will come soon but, it won’t be the one they’re hoping for.

Byker Bob said...

"Your blog needs to stop decieving (sic) people and exagerating (sic) and blowing all facts out of proportion. In all your whinging (sic)......."

Obviously , 2:16, you have learned well from the Living University text book "How to Rede and Spel Gud". Unfortunately, you have just illustrated what some assume to be the level of intellect typical of a fairly high percentage of the ACOG members. You may have sought to defend your church and beliefs, but you really didn't do Uncle Roddy any favors.

In terms of logic, how does one blow "facts" out of proportion?

Now we know how the ACOGs continue to get away with all that they do.

BB

Anonymous said...

Scared, I don't know why you're so scared, you must be a very timid person, man up will you and stop your BS.

Firstly it was never Mr Meredith's policy in the first place, and he has said the church made a mistake and that he was sorry many times. You're just too timid to admit it and anyway how would you know since you don't go to church. He has said sorry time and again in his sermons which you never listen to.

Oh you did used to go to church, probably for many years, and we can see the animosity you hold by the name calling. You're just a quitter and probably never really understood the truth in the first place. First you believe then you don't...a double minded scared little man.

In case you didn't know Mr Meredith is a man himself, yeah really I'm not kidding, not a god, and yes he has made many mistakes like we all have (except for you obviously) so why treat him like a divine being?

He has acknowledged many times that yes he has made many mistakes and has apologized for it, you just dont want to know that part.

You're accusations are completely false. People like you bend the truth and will never admit errors. You're like what I said earlier a little bully that needs a good spanky!



Floyd 1944 said...

Some in LCG have their head so buried in the sand. No need to repeat what HWA did, lying, incest, changing doctrine when it benefited him, Rod still holds him up as if he has always been beyond reproach. Rod pounds his chest and boasts about how he has been faithfully following HWA for 63 plus years. Faithfully preaching the soon coming Kingdom, never ever realizing the damage crying wolf over and over does. He had never has never had to go out and get a real job. When have you ever known Rod to have the brethren over to his house to bbq hamburgers and get to know them. When was the last time he helped paint or clean a widows home. When did he buy clothes for a needy family by that I mean out of his own pocket. When did Rod ever spend the night at one of the homes of the brethren I know he is old now but he never did it when he was young and able. I don't care if LCG is growing or not LCG is self centered judgemental and self righteous. The trolls can come on here and say how wonderful loving giving and kind hearted Rod is but the fruits paint a different picture

Anonymous said...

He never apologized for discouraging others from receive basic medical care but then had his detached retina surgically repaired. If I recall at the time HWA justified it because it was "repair surgery." "Repair" surgery, as compared to what, "recreational surgery"? "Say Bob, do you want to play golf this weekend. No thanks, I'm going in for some recreational surgery." Hypocrisy, arrogance wrapped up in ignorance. Not a very flattering combination.

Anonymous said...

I'm with Anon2:16am

and I know some of the offended parties that have been venting here lately. I consider them friends. But that being said... and I realize this is not one-sided... sadly, this has become an outlet to vent only some of the story. and some of that story has evolved and not in a positive way.

I'm not saying they are not legitimately offended... or that any of you haven't been legitimately hurt over the years - or outright wronged. But it becomes the obsession, even in my friends... maybe it's the human condition. I confess i have done it before, and probably will do it again. But i digress...

I agree with anon2:16am. You may consider me another of those LCG trolls... But truth is I have been coming to this and various sites for YEARS. I've even commented on this one various times (to no avail). But, yes there are a few, who represent themselves as the many. There are a few who pretend they are righteous in their actions and their stories they make up to paint an ugly picture of how horrible things are at the church they hypocritically attend. Making the blogs moderators and their few regulars puff up. But it hasn't changed why I'm here... it hasn't changed the truth of the congregation i attend.... it hasn't changed Dr Meredith's message or the Church's.... and although I'm certain that the antiCOG community including this site does get a small mention here and there, it is not having the effect that is claimed here. I typically leave this site shaking my head. It's sad.

But since i again senselessly am inclined to post here, for some desire to shed balanced light on the out of control wreck of false perception on something i genuinely love, I think i'll add one thing... internal LCG'rs who are stirred up about LCG and the leadership, if this isn't the Church, go FIND it! If there is a God, and he cares about what you do, Go do HIS work! I guarantee if you are right about half of what you are doing here, You sure aren't gaining any spiritual brownie points for it or your hypocrisy.

If these Sheeple (if I) are so stupidly blindly are following the wolvarian madmen, you and your few cohorts here are sadly making no dent in this work. You should find a better purpose in your life.

Soap box just broke under me. LOL, what a waste.

That being said, it was the Tree of Good and Evil that we as a created being took of. So yes there is some truth found here. There are MANY (relatively speaking) that have been and are being hurt by others under the label of the church (or "A" Church). And many of those churches are doing things under the name of HWA or a form of HWA. I'm no one and this is a bunch of 0's and 1's to be lost in nowhere land, but I'm sorry (for what it's worth). I hate it, I've seen it. I'm anxious for the day that 'this part' can be over.

Oh well, I rambled enough in-coherency and wasted enough time. But for balance sake, i agree with Anon2:16am. You few LCG (and xLCG) sources (some of you I consider friends ... yes it's not that hard to piece together, (even for a sheeple) will you be there tomorrow? :-) ), I do hope you have a wonderful Sabbath.

Connie Schmidt said...

To The Two Annons above who are Pro Meredith:

The reason that a blog like this exists, flaws and attitude and all, is that there is no free market discussion in the COGs. True problems, torts, issues, and innovation are squelched, buried and dismissed.

There is no recourse for the church consumer and the typical member end user, is not the beneficiary of the organization, but rather a slave to it. It is a very upside down concept of a service organization. Thus BANNED exists as a sort of "Underground Railway" or "black market" for communication. Perhaps even a form of YELP for the COG.

Should the COGs ever get real, they would embrace problems, seek to solve them, apologize for them, and disown HWA and his legacy as a grand failure to learn from. Members would be allowed to vote for their leaders, have a say over how the money is spent, and have third party arbitration for problem resolutions. Yep, accountability is what would happen, and a whole new paradigm of doing things would create a progressive organization.

Anonymous said...

Well Connie that's just typical of you isn't it...let's just do it Connies way because thats how our government system, controled and manipulated by Satan himself, a system you have known all your life, functions. Lets all have a vote so our church ends up as bad as the freeworlds economies. In case you didn't know God does things differently to what they taught you in uni. You really should read your bible.

I know you'd like to think you have all the answers but you don't sorry to say. You point out that the two annons are pro Meredith, why? Is everyone here that stupid that they cant figure that one out or that maybe they need your help as you seem to have all the answers and solutions to every cog issue. You're just another squeaky wheel that needs some oil and your comments say a lot about how unfair you really are on anything cog.

There is no free market discussion on this blog as it's anti cog and anyone who posts pro cog is singled out as pro Meredith an outsider or whatever especially by the likes of you who has never had anything positive to say about any of the cog's so how fair and balanced are you really on the subject and why should anyone believe a single word you have to say. You are completely discredited.

Banned and this blog is an underground railway and black market of deceit and to compare it to Yelp just goes to show the narrow minded vision you hold. This blog will never compare to Yelp as it's too insignificant and never backed up by real facts just hearsay. It will eventually die out.

These blogs exist so people can vent their anger and so all you get is a one sided story that everyone is just meant to believe? Most people know you need both sides of a story to get to the facts, but that is something these blogs always lack because all you get is an exagerated one sided angle and apparently that's enough to feed to your readers so long as the goal of discrediting the cog is achieved.

This shows your hidden agenda. Only a fool would take anything serious on these blogs.

You clump all cog's in the same basket when they are so different in many ways, but you cant see that. The church does embrace problems, solves them and apologizes for them unlike you who never embraces the factual problems and plain out lies that exist on this blog, or flaws as you mention, solves or even apologizes for them. Why do you expect others to uphold what you refuse to. Hypocritical if you ask me.

You have your own vision of what the church should do and be in order for it to progress, you're completely wrong because you think too highly of yourself and your way of doing things is exactly the way this sick world goes about its business. Have you had a good look at the world lately and where it's headed? Why don't you come up with something original instead of copying Satan system of doing things that's proven to fail.









Scared by LCG said...

Anonymous,

Scared is a better adjective to use in this case, instead of timid. Timid denotes an unprovoked rationale and is not as severe as scared.

I’ve been threatened by an LCG minister. I can personally handle that. The problem is how the threats and the threatener impact my family members who are experiencing differing shades of existence inside LCG.

You seem very knowledgeable on, and loyal to, Spanky. I’d be appreciative of any link you can provide to any apology the great Spanky has ever made for the carnage he’s afflicted on the brethren. Facts are very important to you so, I’m sure you’d be delighted to provide them, in the form of links to the very words of the highly venerated Spanky.

Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Biker Bob, hows your bike riding going? Have you been getting out into the fresh air a little bit more...because it doesn't seem like it.

Are you still complaining about how people spell. I know you think you're the greatest authority on anything cog and see youreslf as the world's greatest speller who as nevr speld any word rong in his life before but seriously is that really important. Does that bother you?

Did you have to point that out. I might spell using British english where you like American english but does that really matter so long as you get what Im trying to convey.

It shows how your mind works, thinking I'm here to do someone like Rod a favour (British before you point it out) which Im not. I wonder what made you come up with that one? I stick up for what I believe and don't need to do anyone any favours, but your mind seems to come up with all these ideas about why Im doing what Im doing and when your light bulb moment seems to be the most logical in your own eyes, you'll believe it. This says a lot about you.

You don't like what I say so you try to attack my intelect when it's you who doesn't understand the different types of english spelling.

I mean you don't even know how you can blow facts out of proportion. You can blow anything out of proportion including facts, you just need to use your God given brain and think about it a little more, then it will click.

Then you say: Now we know how the ACOGs continue to get away with all that they do.

So just clump them all in one basket ay Bobby boy. "Now we know" so now you're speaking on behalf of everyone else as well are you?

The fact is Bob me ol' mate, you're too quick to condemn and by doing that it makes you look real bad, so lighten up and don't take life so seriously because we all make mistakes.




Anonymous said...

In all the years I've read cultie crap (and heard charges leveled by the culties) against those "no longer in the fold", I must say that I've heard one today that's beyond stupid...yet twistedly brilliant: Yea, it's even up to 'herbalistic sleazy salesman' standard!

It's anon's "You're just a quitter" charge.

Sounds like what would be told to a multi-level-marketing victim who complains that the slimy sales shtick given by the MLM's 'upline' was less than honest.

Yep, blame the victim.

Anonymous said...

I was glad to see those posts from insiders of LCOG. It substantiates what I suspected. I am reasonably sure that most of the people in LCOG have personal basic beliefs that are shared. Conflict arises when these beliefs are threatened.
As I mentioned in a comment connected with an earlier post the major problem is the strong effort to destroy Christianity entirely. This should be evident by what is going on in the world today. Like it or not these conflicts in COG groups are contributing to the major problem.
Some comments here reveal a different view of Christianity than I believe the Biblical Scriptures are telling us. I believe following the basic Christian principles has contributed to experiencing a life that accepts reality without attempting judge what is bad and what is good in other people. I try not to judge other people no matter what the facts may be.
The book of Daniel gives some insight regarding the human life of today. The name Daniel means “God is judge”.
Whether a person believes the Scriptures are inspired by God or just the work of man does not make those basic principles any less valuable.
AB

Assistant Coffee Maker said...

One sided?? The original post, and the prior, contains verbatim, unedited sections of Meredith's sermon. That's one side. The blog owner includes his own critical comments. That's a second side. Other replies are critical of Meredith. That's a third side. All pro-Meredith comments are allowed by the moderator, that's a forth side. Current and ex-LCG members expose the behavior of LCG ministers... a fifth side. So how's this one-sided?

Anonymous Coward said...

It is the spirit of antichrist to say Christ has no body.
He was born flesh, died flesh and was raised flesh and bone as he told Thomas and he was not misrepresenting himself or lying to Thomas.
He will return in the flesh.
I am a member of the CoG but the false teaching is piling up quite a bit lately.
It may be time to head for the door.

NO2HWA said...

The one thing that unique about this blog is that I allow comments by present members of various COG's. Most of the COG related boards do no permit open discussions.

It is a sad indictment towards Meredith and others that his members and other COG members have to turn to blogs like this to find out what is going on their organizations because of abusive overlords.

Granted my snarky comments and those of others push a lot of buttons at times, but it also serves a purpose of waking people up to the fact that things are not kosher in the Church of God.

For a church that claims to be the restoration of first century Chrustianity it has morphed into a horrendous abusive system of legalistic tyranny that continues to rip lives apart. It's leaders self righteously and smugly feel they are accountable to no one. By elevating themselves to positions below Christ they set themselves up as overlords that can do anything they want without accountability. That is why LCG members have no recourse when they are treated like dirt by Rod Meredith and NcNair.

It doesn't bother me at all to be called a liar by some. I use their own words against them.

Black Ops Mikey said...

A better question would be, "Is he capable of morality?"

Byker Bob said...

Look, 1:44, I know all about British spelling, and it doesn't begin to explain all of your spelling errors. Our lime-eating cousins do not spell intellect "intelect".

To be very honest, nothing that the cult zombie element present in Armstrongism has to say affects me in the least. Britisher Elvis Costello said it best in the lyrics to one of his songs. "You know, I used to get disgusted, but now I'm just amused....." Armstrongism is its own punishment, and surely all of the Roddomites and Charlottans are beginning to experience and realize that. Who knew back in 2002 that some of the people who posted on the dissident sites that we were deceived, pawns of Satan, and headed for the Lake of Fire would be beginning to look to us for news, and actually find us more credible than their supposed spiritual guides? I have great respect for the courage exhibited by the people who are emerging from Armstrongism, and beginning to realize that their so-called leaders are really not looking out for their spiritual well-being. Narcissists, after all, are only capable of looking out for their own self-interests, and preserving their power.

By the way, it doesn't bother me to be called Bobby. Half my family and most of the ladies in my life call me that. In fact, even Velvet used to apply that appellation occasionally. Come to think of it, you remind me of her. I imagine she is off somewhere, still trying to get back at the Shadows crew, but they've already left the building.

The ACOGs ARE all in the same basket. The original WCG was theological garbage and heresy, and since the groups it has spawned have not corrected this garbage and heresy, so are they. Trying to find the "true one" is like comparison shopping for diarrhea.

Smile, Jesus loves you!

BB

Anonymous said...

LCG's 2009 Feast film was classic. It opened: "Our Mission is to preach the gospel to the world so that Jesus can return". Unbelievable audacity. Jesus is constrained by LCG! No wonder some claim it is the most important work on the face of the earth! However, before the film was posted publicly, that intro was edited out. LCG's leaders knew how boastful, arrogant, outrageous, and untrue that was, even though it was exactly what they had been preaching. So, the inexperienced editor of the film had let the cat out of the bag, and the leaders had to scramble to put it back in. "This is only for internal manipulation -- er -- consumption."

Anonymous said...

8:45

I love that comment 8:45. In our church area Tkach junior was edited out the Feast films for about 3 years. Suddenly he was director of church administration, to the surprise of many.

12:58
Conny, how dumb of you to compare the church to a viable western economy business model.
The 6 billion dollar raised in 50 years was to be used for preaching the gospel, not converting people. Therefore the 6000 or so more souls in the true church are just fine. That is a total return of 1 person for a million dollars. God does things differently than a market economy, so you know.

And yes there's a lot of heresay. No one confirmed my findings yet, it is easyier to read a booklet with spoonfed verses out of context that having to admit the sponsoring of popular racist bigotted supremacist theories of the anglo saxon culture, so you know.

nck

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:45 PM wrote:
"...LCG's 2009 Feast film was classic. It opened: "Our Mission is to preach the gospel to the world so that Jesus can return". Unbelievable audacity. Jesus is constrained by LCG! No wonder some claim it is the most important work on the face of the earth! However, before the film was posted publicly, that intro was edited out..."

The Living ("Dead") leaders display their Biblical ignorance when they say things like: "...Our Mission is to preach the gospel to the world so that Jesus can return..."

How are they ignorant Biblically-speaking? How can we say that?

How many times does it have to be recorded, said using different words, in the Bible that Jesus Christ will be at His Father's right hand until all enemies are subdued and NOT returning to earth for some Mickey Mouse Millennium (MMM)? Death is the last enemy. Satan, also an enemy (Duh!), exits the pit after that MMM to once again deceive the entire earth's inhabitants...and Christ was nowhere around. Just look at the mess made in Jerusalem (Zech 14:1-2!) Yes, that Day of the LORD occurs after Satan is loosed from the pit too.

Here's a couple of them "right hand" verses for starters:

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, UNTIL I MAKE thine ENEMIEWS thy FOOTSTOOL?

1 Peter 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers BEING MADE SUBJECT UNTO him.

Oh, and it's in the Old Testament too:

Ps 110:1 « A Psalm of David. » The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool.

When will the "Living" leadership wake up from their sleepiness and ignorance?

Of course, if Christ's return were dependent upon Living group's leaders preaching "the gospel" to the world, well, then Jesus would never return, because scriptures would prove that not only does the Living leadership, because of another spirit (James 4:5; I John 4:6) preach another Jesus, but they also preach "another gospel" and their rejoicing in their own boastings are all evil.

"But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil." James 4:16

John

Anonymous said...

This same pattern of teaching is prevalent in a majority of the other splinter groups today. For 3 1/2 years, Christ himself ministered upon this earth. Within that time period, was his focus and pattern of teaching to those 1st century disciples the same? I think if we can all read the Bible in context, we know the answer.

Today, the ministry is doing nothing more than what the Pharisees did in the 1st century when Christ was present in their midst. What did Christ say? The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner. Even Peter and the other Apostles struggled with this continually while Christ was teaching them. Who was going to be the head? Who was going to make the decisions? Etc... If there is nothing new under the sun, can we hardly fault them? We certainly do not have to stick around and listen to them. In fact, we are commanded not to. It will take nothing short of a revelation from God to open their eyes.


Byker Bob said...

We've certainly witnessed our number of arrogant, agenda-driven posters with pet theories suddenly bursting on the scene on the "dissident" forums and blogs over the years. They tend to "salt" a blog, getting everyone to comment for a while, and then they disappear just as suddenly as they realize that nobody is buying into what they say, and nobody wants them to become their new guru. As a community, we treat them pretty much the same way as we treat E.W. King, James Malm, and Bob Thiel. Not too much difference between theories about space aliens, or demons coming out of a hole in the ocean and theories about the KKK and the CIA. Crooked pictures and flailing gestures, or supposedly deliberate eccentric flagrant misspellings of common words are also cut from the same cloth. Out of sync, or out of toilet? Those who have recovered are no longer susceptible, and don't buy it. We have immunized ourselves against such things.

Personally, I learned as a teenager at SEP of the lust by nearly everybody within Armstrongism to make something of themselves, to become "somebody" within the context of Armstrongism, as if that were the be all and end all, defining us. Kings and priests, you know. You just had to become even an assistant, assistant something or other. Some never outgrew the need for this, and now attempt to do it retroactively, imagining that certain knowledge, or a new set of conspiracy theories will now glorify them, decades after Armstrongism has faded on the national scene. When we fail to embrace, they begin to chide. When they realize they have been rejected, they may go away, but end up actually delving more deeply into their "crap", only to come back even more vociferously at a later date. Perpetuity in weirdness.

Still, to a balanced person, it is often just as effective to witness bad examples as it is good examples. The process illustrates the full panorama of the continued effects of even a mild dose of Armstrongist thinking upon one's life. It was indeed a powerful modifier, with long-lasting side effects.

BB

Anonymous said...

"decades after Armstrongism has faded on the national scene"

bb,
balanced bob.
Let's look at the evidence of the b igger b igture.

What used to be radical earthshaking armstrongist viewpoints that to you seem to have faced from the national scene looks very different to me.

Articles in my local small town newspaper, by minor journalists every year point out the origins of christmas, that christ was not born on the 25th, father christmas is a coca cola logo etc. It is mainstream man.

I see millions of born again christians celebrate a type of the "feast of tabernacles" nowadays hundreds of thousands of baptists flocking to Jerusalem for the feast. In your ac days a total abberation of mainstream thought.

I see the blending of Hoehian philosophy into daily life practiced by every housewife in America. Eat pray love. Many a hipster would not mind a what thai priest attend their funeral nowadays. It would even be a sign of their universality.

Every enligthened person in the world now believes we are stardust and will inherit the stars after (re)turning into energy again.

EU is a fact. The Unseen hand hits hard on those not complying since 2008.
And I could go on and on, from economic, legal, sociological perspective. Armstrongism seems mainstream to me. Or perhaps Armstrongism was something different, but that would be conspiracy.

nck






Anonymous said...

Since people here seem to like examples.

Step away four steps from conspiracy.

Start studying companies like Monsanto in Brazil, or Cargill operations in Arkansas.
Companies patenting the genetic structure of animals, of every food we eat.
"sounds like one cannot trade or live without their "mark".
The structure of these companies, how and where they operate are not unlike how some of us pictured agricultural life in the "world tomorrow" booklet. Large parcels set apart to feed everyone abundantly on this planet.

Now I asked you to step away from conspiracy or even all the "lefty" protest against genetical modification, banning disease from man and plant, feeding the world in plenty and abundance. Then re read "the wonderful world tomorrow". Then study the world as it is from the Monsanto. Cargill, Google, Africa Telecom perspective. As XiJinping said just the other day in San Francisco being moderated by dr Robert Kuhn on CNN. Billions are raised from poverty these days. But there is still more work ahead.

nck

Ed said...

The problem with the COG's is not government "OR" doctrine but government "AND" doctrine. The traditional government of the old WCG was a top-down dictatorship. This type of government is abusive but even if the COG's went to a democracy type of government but still embrace the same doctrines of armstrongism they would still be abusive because of the salvation by works nature of the doctrines of armstrongism. Changing the government of the COG's is just like putting lipstick on a pig if there isn't a change away from the abusive salvation by works doctrines as well.

Anonymous said...

I have a question for the two Meredith supporters.

I'm sure you are both reading this because once you post something on this blog, human curiosity dictates that you are interested in seeing how people reply to your post.

While I am sure you are reading this, I am guessing that you won't have to courage to answer my question. I ask this question sincerely and without a vindictive spirit. I ask so that you may have the opportunity to help me get both sides of the story. I'm not in Charlotte so I don't necessarily have access to all the "facts".

What story(s) on this blog aren't true? What lies can you expose?

Anonymous said...

The poster who thinks Meredith is a fair and loving man must be a family member.

Meredith is indeed fair and loving to family. He's also pretty decent to those who fluff the pillow on his pedestal. As long as you are kissing his butt, all is well.

It's only the people who don't see him as 3rd in all the universe that get the real Meredith.

Anonymous said...

Huh?

Retired Prof said...

BB, it is often MORE effective to witness bad examples than it is good examples. In fact, there is a guy on one gun-related forum I visit whose tag line is "You can learn more from one bad example than you can from twelve good ones."

That motto has put Rod Meredith into context for me, and it mitigates my regret about sitting through his Church History class. Though I didn't actually learn twelve times as much from him as from my best teachers, he did inadvertently make major contributions to my education.

That is to say, your reason for paying attention to commenters bringing us fringe ideas is spot on.

Anonymous said...

I am completely with bb and the retired prof on the "full panorama".
On a blog dedicated to hwa, religious debate and "verse" slinging is only for those interested in the "eclesiastical" part of the denomination.

Although I realize this spot is not the right place for discussing other than religious subjects. One more example. When hwa chooses for his first article in his first edition of his first publication on the fist page to quote "the tanaka memorandum", (probably a chinese communist paper first translated in english by the communist party of america in 1931) , claimed by trotski to be a kgb document, and claimed by Peter Flemming (brother of 007) to have been edited in 1939 as part of the propaganda effort to change US views on Imperial Japan. ) This is of no significance to those that have faithfully tithed , paid with their pensions to distribute this publication.

Now I thank the retired prof for calling it fringe ideas. That is very polite of him. Because the word lies would not be accurate to describe what I am paying attention to.

I do however accept that people here are more interested in conversing about religious topics or how all the dying split offs are faring. Personally I am more interested in what hwa was actually saying and doing and what those dollars were spend on instead of crackpot religion. Connecting all the dots to me it seems far to easy to dismiss information like "quoting the tanaka memorandum" as just one more conspiracy theory to lure people into his crackpot religion. I think it was the main gist of his work and the religion thing was just the conspiracy to lure people into that.
Now, I will not bother you too much by inserting off topic comments. Religion is your forte and comfort zone. Continue at that if it helps any. I pray.

nck

Byker Bob said...

It is absolutely ludicrous to attribute what is "known" about Christmas soley to the influence of HWA. The Puritan colonists in the 1600s had banned celebrating Christmas in the new land because of its alleged pagan origins, and the Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses (much larger groups, and more influential than Armstrongism) have preached this same messaage for years. If anything, HWA was jumping on an existing band wagon.

The celebration of the fulfilled elements of the Old Covenant have been popularized by the Messianic Jews. You might want to read up on this group, which has its roots going back several hundred years to earlier Christians who were making attempts to evangelize the Jews. By the 1960s, the Southern Baptists had certain of these groups of Messianic Jews as an official evangelistic arm, not even considered to be separate groups, but actually an official arm of the Baptist church.

Who, but insiders even knew of Herman Hoeh, and the philosophy which he largely kept as one of his secrets up until his death, when suddenly one saw Thai Buddhist monks at his funeral? The Buddhists themselves are responsible for the behavior of the American housewives which you cited. You couldn't even go to the supermarket in California in the 1970s without encountering some young culties advising you to chant "Nam myoho renge kyo". My next door neighbors in the late '70s were chanting, and advising me to do likewise.

You really have to look at the character of HWA to properly discern his influence. What do we know about the man? First, we know that he was very pretentious. Secondly, we know that he claimed not to be a prophet, but to be one who analyzed the news in the context of Bible prophecy. He was guessing, but preaching his guesses dogmatically as fact. And, somehow, he was always wrong. Even the EU does not conform to HWA's prognostications. Obviously, he was guessing about that, as well. There has been testimony by people close to HWA that international photo opportunities for HWA with, in many cases, shaky, soon to be deposed "world leaders" were bought and paid for in various ways. Use of the jet on behalf of some of these people, though looking suspicious, was little more than additional gratuitous ass kissing (at tithe payers' expense), attempting for yet more influence. Lobbyists and sports recruiters have employed such techniques for decades.

Extrapolating Monsanto's genetic and chemical research into the "mark of the Beast" where buying and selling activities are forbidden unless you have the mark, is really reaching. If you ever read any of the spacey "gnostic gospels" you can see the types of trouble symbolism can get you in to. Besides, a great case can be made for the possibility that the Levitical clean meat laws were exclusively for ancient Israelites. Finally, genetic structures and chemical elements of "unclean" animals are broken down so far for Monsanto's reengineering projects, that you'd actually get more contamination from breathing the same air as your dog or cat whom you are petting as he sits on your lap while you watch TV.

There was no religious or secular greatness to HWA. He was simply a con man, who took us all for a ride, and got away with it. I find your wild leaps and speculative conclusions to be quite Hisloppian.

BB

Anonymous said...

"It is absolutely ludicrous to attribute what is "known" about Christmas soley to the influence of HWA."
Of course.
"If anything, HWA was jumping on an existing band wagon."
That's my point, it is mainstream now, the next kid on the block is telling me what was absolute anathema and unpopular in 1950 society, when HWA put it on the airwaves.
"The celebration of the fulfilled elements of the Old Covenant have been popularized by the Messianic Jews."
I was talking more about more recent initiatives like "international christian embassy in jerusalem" or "christian zionism". And in general mainstream tv evangelists spouting what in the past was considered armstrongism. Even the pope has "recognized the contribution of the jews to the roots of christianity" nowadays.
"Who, but insiders even knew of Herman Hoeh, and the philosophy which he largely kept as one of his secrets up until his death"
I talked about this earlier on the "masonry building" thread. Hoehs occultism and masonic influence is all over the compendium. (indjuns on viking ships, pyramids etc etc) hwa even speaks about 18 year old hoehs inclination in the original serialized autobiography, but those fragments were to be edited out later on.
"the American housewives which you cited. You couldn't even go to the supermarket in California in the 1970s without encountering some young culties advising you to chant "Nam myoho renge kyo". My next door neighbors in the late '70s were chanting, and advising me to do likewise."
I like how you put that.
I am referring to the universalist, globalist, "worldwide", interconnected, consciousness that is now commonplace. Perhaps where we differ here is both our interpretation of the bandwagon. Perhaps you view "the bandwagon" as normal human progression, driven by technological advancement. Indeed I tend to see a tad bit more engineering here. Hence the 1939 "the world of tomorrow" fair. Indeed by quoting Edward Bernays, the fair, social engineering I tend more towards strategic planning.
"You really have to look at the character of HWA to properly discern his influence. What do we know about the man? First, we know that he was very pretentious. Secondly, we know that he claimed not to be a prophet, but to be one who analyzed the news in the context of Bible prophecy. He was guessing, but preaching his guesses dogmatically as fact. And, somehow, he was always wrong."
What most of you overlook was that he was a born advertising man. As much as some find engineers hard to understand. To some it might be unclear how real talented advertising people think, how their thought processes work if they have not been immersed in that sub culture.

Anonymous said...

"Even the EU does not conform to HWA's prognostications. Obviously, he was guessing about that, as well."

Now here we disagree on a fundamental level. To me the shaping of the EU has been American Foreign policy since WWII. Churchill spoke about it openly. It is key to understanding hwa's work if you do not understand american foreign policy since WWII. It is key in understanding why HWA got his medal by a war criminal for "his role" on Okinawa.

"There has been testimony by people close to HWA that international photo opportunities for HWA with, in many cases, shaky, soon to be deposed "world leaders" were bought and paid for in various ways. Use of the jet on behalf of some of these people, though looking suspicious, was little more than additional gratuitous ass kissing (at tithe payers' expense), attempting for yet more influence. Lobbyists and sports recruiters have employed such techniques for decades."
Yessir, you are using the word Lobbyist. I'm still not sure whether it was hwa himself or "those people close to him." On wikileaks there are some names and companies that are familiar to us all.

"Extrapolating Monsanto's genetic and chemical research into the "mark of the Beast" where buying and selling activities are forbidden unless you have the mark, is really reaching. If you ever read any of the spacey "gnostic gospels" you can see the types of trouble symbolism can get you in to. Besides, a great case can be made for the possibility that the Levitical clean meat laws were exclusively for ancient Israelites. Finally, genetic structures and chemical elements of "unclean" animals are broken down so far for Monsanto's reengineering projects, that you'd actually get more contamination from breathing the same air as your dog or cat whom you are petting as he sits on your lap while you watch TV."

I was not so much talking about the techical specs of the products. More of the worldview as put forward in "the wonderful world tomorrow" in a world and time full of hunger and squalor. While now most of the problems of hunger and poverty are nearly eridicated from this earth. I am talking percentage wise from the official UN reports. Of course I understand that there are still millions to go. But percentage wise, we are close to a world not unlike "the world tomorrow". I know all the cog's are pointing towards escalating wars and the end is nigh. But look at the United Nations official statistics and you'll see that wars are really decreasing rapidly.
"There was no religious or secular greatness to HWA. He was simply a con man, who took us all for a ride, and got away with it. I find your wild leaps and speculative conclusions to be quite Hisloppian."
A discussion on this topic is to big. Perhaps he really believed the stuff that entered his mind. Perhaps he really saw US and B in prophecy as a revelation by God, while in reality it was just one of three books in the portland library and the fact that a lot of people seemed to believe it was because oregon at the time was infested with kkk thought and even had its constitution shaped in such way.
Perhaps he was taken for a ride too.
Since you have a lot of clear cut answers. If you have spare ink left. Do you have a speculation on why since after 1980 "elements were purged" and "the church was back on the track", in the 90's some of Stanley Rader's kin decided to continue with the more traditional strain and not go with the mothership, stanley rader supposedly had not set foot in wcg for 20 years, suddenly in 2002 the leader of the mothership presides over Rader's funeral? Of course there must be some logical explanation to set me free finally. Perhaps they were just friends. Until then I stick with the more sinister explanation in accordance with my Hislopian nature.
Thank you,
nck

Byker Bob said...

Nice tapdancing! We can certainly see that in your responses, you managed to morph what your original words meant or implied in your posts above. That slipperiness really doesn't provide a firm basis for honest discussion.

In answer to your final question regarding Rader's family and funeral, since I never so much as shook Stan Rader's hand, and really knew nothing of his family, I can only speculate. I do know that there were a whole lot of WCG members who never came to trust Rader, in spite of his bathtub baptism, and ordination to Evangelist.

But, Stan Rader was an attorney. It is possible that in the corporate mentality, regardless of the doctrinal corrections, his family may have opted to defer to the corporation which Stan had guided most of his working life. Perhaps the WCG actually volunteered, while offering condolences, and his heirs graciously accepted. At the time that Rader passed away, the main activity of old school Armstrongism had shifted away from Pasadena, to other states back East.

Who would you suggest as an alternative to Tkach? There had been bad blood between Rader and Meredith for years. UCG would have been seen as destroyers and diminishers of the corporate empire. Besides, if you were present in WCG during the 1970s, Rader was offended if anyone less than HWA dared to introduce him for his occasional business reoprts. He once chastised Leonard Schreiber for doing exactly that in the Auditorium. Pack and Flurry, and other lesser figures were seen as nobodies, and who would have thought it would be a good idea to even approach GTA about this.

The best alternative, since he held dual church memberships, would have been the Rabbi at his Temple. But, that would have taken him out of the realm in which he enjoyed more fame, WCG.

The basic problem is that any time one uses HWA as the basis or standard for anything, that path leads straight into error. Religion, or international geopolitics, it makes no difference. His prowess in advertising was insufficient for the major corporations which he idolized, but just good enough to garner 150,000 supporters at peak. He was incapable of setting up the infrastructure to keep what he had built intact. In building his empire, he appealed to negative motivation. He scared his members into believing that to save their lives and that of their families, he and his product were the only game in town. All the supposed influence you are bringing up, even if it were based in fact, remained completely invisible, and therefore is of no consequence.

BB

Byker Bob said...

Know what? Trying to attach any sort of significance or impact in retrospect to Herbert W. Armstrong is just like what the false prophets do when their prophecies consistently fail. Remember their all-purpose words? "Oh, the fulfillment was a "spiritual" thing!" In other words, it's just another way of saying, "Oh, it's beyond the perception of you dumb sheep!"

HWA was a shrewd conman and a fraud, and he brought nothing but poison and pain into everyone's lives who ever found themselves in the middle of his daughter Dorothy's nightmare. No redeeming social value to the man in any way, shape, or form.

BB

Anonymous said...

DID ANYONE ELSE NOTICE THAT THE 2 MEREDITH DEFENDERS NEVER REPLIED TO THE QUESTION, "WHAT STORIES ON THIS BLOG ARE NOT TRUE?"

THE TROLLS LIKE TO COME ON HERE WHEN IT GETS HEATED UP SO THEY CAN SAY "IT'S ALL LIES, DON'T BELIEVE IT" BUT THEN WHEN THEY ARE PRESSED FOR WHAT STORIES OR PARTS OF STORIES BEING EXPOSED ON BANNED AREN'T TRUE, THEY ARE SILENT.

EVERY LCG STORY I'VE READ ON HERE IN THE LAST YEAR HAS BEEN TRUE.

I WISH NO2HWA OR WHOEVER MAKES THE NEW HEADLINES WOULD COPY THE WORDS OF ANNON NOV 20TH 9;16AM AND PRESS HIM/HER TO EXPOSE THE "LIES" (WHICH HE WON'T BE ABLE TO DO BECAUSE THERE ARE NO LIES).

IT ANNOYS THE CRAP OUT OF ME. BE SPECIFIC. WHAT LIES???

MY GUESS IS THAT THEY WILL CONTINUE TO STAY SILENT BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S ALL TRUE.