Sunday, August 7, 2016

UPDATED Exclusive: Elizabeth Scarborough Letter: Update on court case


I appreciate Mrs. Scarborough deciding to release this information here. This site has now become the "go to" source for updates and information on the various issues that are hurting LCG members lives. This site also allows LCG members to comment freely and anonymously.

NOTE: James Malm has copied information from below and added it to his blog, as if it was sent directly to him, where he has added his own commentary that is misinformed and wildly inaccurate.   His accusations against Dennis are completely false.  Dennis has had no contact or correspondence with the Scarborough's at anytime.  Malm also is spreading misinformation about the Scarborough's and in effect lying about them.  He has added his own interpretation as to the reasons for the lawsuit and for its dismissal, all totally inaccurate. Malm's wild accusation further discredits him in the eyes of the few he pretends to reach.





You have my permission to post this.

I know that many people, both in ACOGs and out, now look to your site for the information that LCG tries to keep under wraps.  I would prefer to have the truth out there over speculation.

Thank you,
Elizabeth


As you and your readers know, we had a court date last Monday wherein the Living Church of God pled for a dismissal on Ecclesiastical Abstention grounds. We left the proceedings feeling rather confident that the judge would rule in our favor. The high-priced, fancy lawyers for LCG weren’t very impressive in their presentation to the judge (in fact they appeared to actually annoy the judge) and we felt our lawyer did a good job with his arguments. Our lawyer explained to the judge that we were in no way disputing the churches right to mark us for whatever reasons, real or completely made-up, but rather that we were suing them for slandering us on multiple occasions with statements that we can easily prove were false AND of a vindictive nature.

Ecclesiastical abstention basically gives the church permission to treat members as horribly as they want because the members join of their own free will and in so doing give permission to those in power do whatever they want to them. It stems from the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution and makes the claim that courts don’t have the “jurisdiction” to attempt to resolve disputes that are inherently religious in nature. It specifically states that the court should refrain from issues that are based on religious doctrine or church governance, or having to do with decisions handed down by the church leadership.

Our complaint was not “religious in nature”. We were slandered. No matter who you are, it’s against the law to say untrue,defamatory things about people. It’s even worse when those statements are lies spoken with the intent to harm someone’s reputation and good name. THAT is what our case was based on. Not doctrine.

Late Friday night our lawyer informed us that the judge granted LCG the dismissal. Needless to say, we were shocked. At this point our claim is completely dead unless we decide to appeal. We have 30 days to make that decision.

All we ever wanted was for them to admit that they made a wrong decision, based on wrong information, and to meet with us to make peace even if that meant we never walked through LCG’s doors again. We just wanted peace but they refused to talk to us time and time again. A month before we filed the lawsuit, we hired a lawyer to write LCG a letter. That letter expressed our fervent desire to meet to work on peaceful resolution and it stated that we didn’t want to file the lawsuit but said that if they didn’t reply to the letter, we would file the suit. The deadline to reply came and went with no response from LCG. They could have gotten out of this without spending a dime, but they chose to continue to ignore our plea for peace.

Patrick and I counted 44 emails and letters that we wrote LCG literally begging them for peaceWhile they refused to work on peace, they had no problem having Dexter Wakefield draft “Release” letter they wanted us to sign which absolved them of any wrong doing from the beginning of time. Sadly, we were so desperate to have the marking removed at that time that we probably would have signed it if they would have agreed that signing it meant we could start counseling toward resolution, but they still refused, so we didn’t sign it. If you read the Release, you would be utterly shocked at its content. It was extremely inflammatory. Their behavior toward us has been nothing less than completely unbelievable.

The silver lining in all this is that after over 20 hours of depositions, we now know why Rod McNair and Rod Meredith decided to mark us, which is something we have struggled to understand for nearly 2 years now. Rod McNair testified, under oath, that we were marked for the following reasons: 1. we had a Greek-themed party in 2009 (after returning from a trip to Greece) that looked like a “toga party” 2. In 2011 I sang the Andrew’s Sisters 1945 hit “Rum & Coca-Cola” at Spokesman Club ladies night and McNair believes the song promotes prostitution (they asked me to sing that night and pre-approved the song but I still got in trouble for it) 3. In 2014 I invited two couples, close friends (or so I thought at the time but apparently I was wrong) to my home for a bbq to show them unconditional love because they had been suspended from church and were feeling discouraged. They had been suspended for reading the Book of Enoch and having private Bible studies which we were NEVER a part of but we loved them and wanted to support them because they were very discouraged and upset. We ALL expressed concern over the behavior of HQ’s ministry that night but these couples were Rod McNair’s friends so they got off unscathed while “speaking negatively of ministry” and “causing church division” was added to McNair’s file against me when he found out about our conversations. And then lastly, 4. They blamed Patrick for being the source of information posted on cogwriter.com about Mr. Apartian. Bob Thiel emailed LCG, called LCG and posted on his blog that we were NOT his source (we subsequently found out WHO the source actually was) but LCG continued to pin this accusation on Patrick because they literally had NOTHING else to justify marking him. One LCG minister even testified under oath that the information posted on cogwriter was TRUE and that Mr. Apartian had actually made those statements to a handful of people in his last year of life. So they marked Patrick for TRUE information that he didn’t give Thiel!

That’s it. They took all our friends, our church and our entire social life, our support system, and ruined our reputations because I didn’t handle their accusations of impropriety in 2009 and 2011 very well (as evidenced by my refusing to take the pictures off of my personal Facebook page at McNair’s request), the completely false accusation about cogwriter and one night of openly expressed opinions on brutish behavior we had observed first-hand by LCG ministry.

I’m sure you all think we are better off but that doesn’t negate the devastating pain and loss we suffered and the utter heartache we endured by being shunned by people that we truly loved and thought were our friends. I still can’t understand how people who were our friends for over a decade can just turn their backs on us because Rod Meredith and Rod McNair told them to.

And for that they have opted to spend tens of thousands of dollars defending themselves instead of just sitting down with us like grown-ups (let alone Christians) and working through our problems.

I’m sure the hours and hours of deposition transcripts would make salacious and eye-opening reading for many. At one point, Rod Meredith said that if it were up to him we would NEVER be allowed to attend ANY church of God again. It gave me goosebumps! And he thinks that’s a converted attitude?! Praise God that decision is not his. Meredith also said that “causing church division is worse than murder or child molestation”. Ironic since he’s formed two churches through division himself and we never caused or urged a single person to leave LCG. He used this as his defense as to why McNair called the pastor of our new church and attempted to get us kicked out of that church too. Apparently, it wasn’t enough for them to kick us out of LCG. They’d prefer that we not be able to attend ANY church EVER. So very Christian of them.

Anyway, we just wanted to let you and your readers know because we know that many of them have been supporting us in our effort to seek justice. I have gotten so many private messages from people that have suffered at the hands of these men. Each story I read made me feel even more strongly that we needed to press on. Not to exact revenge but rather, in the hope that if they got their hands smacked for abusing members, they might change their ways or at least think twice before ruining another person’s life. As it stands, they probably think God is on their side and feel empowered to continue to behave as unjust bullies.

I have total faith that in the end, they will be made accountable. 

79 comments:

Opinionated said...

Appeal this. The judge could have been paid off IMHO.

Anonymous said...

there is an old saying down here..."dance with the devil and you'll get burned"

just be happy that you are away from him now.

remember, the world takes care of it's own.

God will repay....

RSK said...

"I still can’t understand how people who were our friends for over a decade can just turn their backs on us because Rod Meredith and Rod McNair told them to."

Because in a cult, they are not your friends. They are fellow self-made servants to the leader's personality. Friendship is proven, not a convenient label.

Anonymous said...

Why don't the Scarboroughs approach LCG with a proposition? Either the Scarboroughs receive a written apology, or they release the depositions in which Meredith says such outlandish things and other LCG leaders contradict Meredith?

Connie Schmidt said...

Is the September 6th hearing now off the docket?

Anonymous said...

Mrs. Scarborough said,"Late Friday night our lawyer informed us that the judge granted LCG the dismissal. Needless to say, we were shocked. At this point our claim is completely dead unless we decide to appeal. We have 30 days to make that decision."

I'm confused. So does this mean that LCG won the case? What about the court date scheduled for September 6th? Is this a result of an appeal?

I was excommunicated by LCG in 2015 over doctrine and can verify that their clergy use un-Christian like behavior to justify their actions. Ultimately, if the human court systems side with LCG, they still have to stand before Jesus Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment. I pray that the LORD will give you the victory Scarborough family.

Steve D said...

What was the reason for the Judge's decision?

Anonymous said...

As it stands, they probably think God is on their side and feel empowered to continue to behave as unjust bullies.

Meredith may think he is keeping the church pure by going along with McNair's purges, when in fact McNair is protecting some of his own friends who are big liars and are instigating much of the talk against Meredith. By the standards that were used to purge the Scarboroughs and some of their friends, McNair himself ought to be disfellowshipped and marked.

Sweetblood777 said...

I truly believe that the LCG and its leadership are evil and treat the flock with contempt, however, I see nothing in your letter that justifies a law suit. Your letter speaks of emotional damage and not being able to speak with your church friends, but it does not mention anything that would make one jump up at the horror of their behavior.

Many if not most of us, have experienced what you and your family went through, though I must admit, that yours seems to be felt at a much deeper level.

I hope that at least financially that you all were not put out too much.

Anonymous said...

This is what can happens to anyone who puts all their eggs in one basket. As they say in investing, diversity. It's wise to have interests and friends outside of the church as well. But hide from this from the church Gestapo.

Anonymous said...

I think Leona McNairs court experience was dismissed at one point but she won in the end. Did it take three times?

All this talk about standing before Jesus, and God etc., I doubt if God is interested it this ridiculous little church. Humans abuse each other, and it is up to the abused ones not to submit without a fight, otherwise the abuser gets stronger. God never had anything to do with Armstrongs churches except maybe feeling sad that his name was used this way. I am pretty sure of that.

Connie Schmidt said...

It appears that in the "legal sense" of the word, that the LCG can define what is , or what is not good behavior. By any normal point of view, singing Rum & Coca Cola , or having a "Toga Party" or reading the Book of Enoch are not immoral or scandalous behaviors, but in the "world view" of the LCG these are damnable sins.

The court apparently upholds the right of the LCG to be stupid idiots, and the right to hold ridiculous membership standards and to be arrogant jack asses. The LCG does have the legal right to restrict membership in its religious club to whatever whimsical standards they want.

This case is a curious one, as the Scarboroughs appear to not be asking for monetary damages, nor restoration, but rather , trying to force RCM and company to say "they are sorry". The court, thus for obvious reasons, decided not to hear this case.

The Leona McNair case back in the WCG years had a different element. In that case RCM publicly declared her as "demon possessed" , an obvious slander that could be disproved in a court, and monetary damages for pain and suffering were being sought. The Scarborough case was much less severe in nature and remedy, (although I truly do sympathize with the emotional trauma that they have felt from this all).

However, the Scarboroughs did achieve a powerful objective. That was to expose the ridiculous nature of the LCG and its practices. To bring public shame upon the LCG for its abuse of power, and to be a powerful witness to the idea that it is noble to stand up for oneself. Im sure everyone in any COG benefitted somewhat, as the fear of future lawsuits hangs over all of their heads and may act , act least to some small degree, as a restraint on their behaviors.

Anonymous said...

@ Connie

Apparently. But, yeah, I'm with you on the docket issue date. Dismissal is always up for consideration in these cases, but why move it to a trial date so quickly on paper and then publish it without even a footnote below the text? Who/what moved?
I guess they really do move slowly in N.C. Someone pointed out that the courts are already at war with the Feds on the restroom gender issue down there, so going after a local church would not be in their best political interests. Maybe, but I doubt it.
When I googled the law firm representing LCG I couldn't help but chuckle; reminded me of the famous Hallmark Card motto.
A close friend with a great sense of humor remarked: "The only ones missing from the photographs are Diane Lockhart, Eli Gold, Elisha Florrick and David Lee... " :-)

Martha said...

Elizabeth (just in case you are checking),

You absolutely are better off with those who marked you excised from your life. God works in mysterious ways, and sometimes those ways involve pain because there is no other way to remove a cancer. That excision is necessary but painful.

I am so, so sorry for the resulting devastation this chapter has wrought in your life. It is unconscionable to have everything and everyone you have known and loved torn from you in this way.

When we left the COGs, we did so voluntarily, but with the knowledge that we were walking away from virtually everything and everyone. I count it all as loss for cause of grace and truth in Jesus Christ, but that doesn't mean it didn't hurt. The pain over the lost decades and broken relationships does not go away over night. But in Him all things are possible.

I pray that God gives you peace that surpasses all understanding. There are more people praying for you than you know.

Martha

marthacog@gmail.com
http://asbereansdid.blogspot.com/

ashley froud said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

This is an example of the importance of a trading relationship within the church. If a person had been living the "give way" in the church (giving out much more than receiving from others), being suspended amounts to theft by the church. With trade, the loss is minimized.

Cheers TradingGuy

Anonymous said...

Shepherd's chapel: another cult. don't get sucked into another one.

Anonymous said...

Here's a quick Bible study for LCG members and ministers.

"Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king." -- 1 Peter 2:17

"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." -- 2 Timothy 1:7

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." -- 1 John 4:18

Do these three verses describe your experience in LCG? If so, I'm happy for you, but what I see are a lot of frightened members who have invested themselves so deeply in the group that they feel trapped, while Meredith's lies about "the Work" keep their heads spinning so they don't think for themselves and leave.

Byker Bob said...

When my son used to come to me with an insumountable problem from time to time, somewhere in the process, we would have the following exchange:

Dad: "How do you move a mountain, Bobby?"

Bobby: "One shovel full at a time!"

And, then we would attack the problem with renewed vigor, on multiple fronts. Even when we couldn't totally elliminate the problem, we often made it less bad so that it was at least manageable.

The systemic problem within Armstrongism is caused by several of the doctrines, and the overall approach. All of the ACOGs are infected, as we witness here pretty much on a daily basis. If one wishes to remain in an Armstrong-based social setting, at best, one can only search for a less toxic group with a better and more ethical sense of social justice. So long as they emphasize their absolute, unaccountable, and non-negotiable authority over grace, the lack of social justice is going to continue to be a problem. Probably, the tenets of Armstrongism can be kept on a private and individual basis in one's own home, but the very instant that this expands into a group thing, the evils and toxicity manifest themselves. This toxicity, depending on the extremeness of the individual's beliefs can even be present in the private setting, causing spousal and child abuse, unnecessary deaths due to one's attitude towards the medical profession, and racism caused by the race-based Armstrong hierarchy of value of the different racial groups. But at least the abuse of authority and slander can be elliminated by going independent.

It has been encouraging, knowing that somebody stood up and attempted to make these "ministers" accountable, not only to the higher standards of our civilization, but also to the principles which they choose to ignore in the Bible that Doug Winnail has to constantly point out to them. Unfortunately, PCG and RCG do not have their own versions of a Doug. I honestly expected the lawsuit to be successful, and am disappointed that it was dismissed. However, perhaps more will now be encouraged to stand up to the life-ruining abuses of spiritual tyrants. One can only hope for more Clint Eastwoods and William Tells. This thing is by no means over as of yet.

BB

Anonymous said...

LCG didn't win. Someone can only win if it goes to trial. The case was dismissed so they only people who won were the attorneys.

Anonymous said...

The Scarborough's should create a website for the deposition transcripts. Many of us would love to read them!

I hope that we get the chance. I'm sure they would further expose LCG's hateful arrogance and corruption.

Anonymous said...

In what version of reality is a toga party, a 1940's song and questioning authority grounds for being severed from the Body of Christ???

If you are into the ACOG thing, being marked means you are no longer in the Body and therefore no longer Christ's bride which means you will not go to the place of safety and will likely suffer horrible torture in the tribulation. Marking someone means there is really no hope for them.

One would think Meredith and McNair would be scared to mark someone on the off chance that they were wrong. What's the penalty for them if their harsh actions cause these people to stumble when they otherwise would have made it?

I'd like to say that I'm shocked that those men take salvation so lightly or think they have the authority to judge the hearts of men but I'm not. This type of behavior personifies who they are and who they have always been. And yet, people continue to follow them. That's what's truly shocking!

Anonymous said...

Shame on all those fake friends in LCG. I hope they read this and feel some amount of guilt. Is walking away from your friends in a time of need Christian behavior people? I'm guessing that if any number of them had shown the Scarborough's true Christian love and compassion, the lawsuit would have never happened.

Anonymous said...

And Doug Winnail has the balls to write about being peacemakers...

Anonymous said...

They wrote LCG 44 times but LCG still refused to work toward peace?!

Anonymous said...

Rod McNair is a piece of shit and Rod Meredith's mind is failing. I blame McNair. He hated the Scarborough's and used his position to sway Meredith's opinion. In time all will be revealed and the evil Rod's will get exaction what they deserve.

Anonymous said...

I hope Elizabeth will let us know if they decide to appeal. I hope they do.

Anonymous said...

We can all see now that The Scarborough had it coming. Nobody wore togas in ancient times, they clearly wore three piece suits. Singing an Andrews Sisters song is clearly worse than murder. I would also like to announce that the biblical author Jude will be disfellowshipped and banned from any role in the Kingdom of Rod. He quoted from the book of Enoch. He must have read it without permission. Can Mr. Rod make a life schedule for members. What time to get up in the morning, when to go to bed, what books to read, what TV shows to watch, when to go the bathroom and for how long (who knows what happens when you linger), what color your house should be (pink is out), the exact length of your hair (not a millimeter off)... It would really help us in our daily living.

Anonymous said...

what color your house should be (pink is out)

Are you sure? Two of Meredith's sons wear pink shirts regularly.

Byker Bob said...

Jeez! Those "offenses" are almost subliminal. Now, if it had been a clothing optional hot tub party, and if the song had been "Star Star" by the Rolling Stones or Clarence Carter's "Strokin'" and if people were reading the Nechronomicon, I can see why those things would be considered to be disfellowship offenses. Next thing you know, people will be disfellowshipped because their breath doesn't smell bad enough on the day of atonement!

Anyone with half a brain can see that these
"offenses" were used as a pretense. It's about like someone ratting on Daniel for praying! In no way do they constitute spiritual grounds for marking and shunning, even amongst the most prudish on the planet.

BB

Anonymous said...

3.00PM not really. If you consider what Doug said, and didn't say, the picture he paints of a peacemaker, is that of a doormat. That's what ministers expect of all their victims.

Anonymous said...

So from I understand, if you join a church from your own free will. That church can treat you any way they want.
Does that mean if you have joined the Catlick church, do they have the right to sexually assault you.
This could open up a can of worms. Just thinking.
charly s

Anonymous said...

I wonder how Rod would react to the book I'm presently reading: "The wise lesbian guide to getting free from crazy making relationships and getting on with your life" by Amber Ault. I recommend the book. It has many applications, including being a member of a abusive church.

Anonymous said...

I just read Maims blog on this. He accuses Dennis Diehl of being 'seemingly bitter.' Why are church critics always bitter but not angry, hostile, resentful or envious etc. A cheap put down since bitterness is looked down upon in the churches. Strictly speaking, it's not a sin to be bitter, no more so than being angry.

Anonymous said...

I can hear the bragging remarks now from the LCG hierarchy, that the July 30th enforced fast was heard and supported by God, to stop this vicious and unprovoked attack by Satan or dissidents who are now attacking God's one and only true church, that still has the now number one (since HWA and GTA are dead) in charge, leading, pugilistic evangelist, fighting the good fight. A letter should soon follow asking for more money for the final, final, final push to do the great commission.

NO2HWA said...

The best line on the Chief Pharisee's comment is this: "and the inveterate liars over at an anti God website."

Such a sad little man. Bitterness and anger are all that drives him. That is what comes out in his law crap he promotes as truth. He is bitter that no one from any of the COG's are joining him and giving him and prophet Constance any money. It's all too funny at how serious some of these people are.

Byker Bob said...

"Inveterate liars" So now we know who the anonymous anal canal was who would self-righteously post "You people are such liars!" here, and then wouldn't go into specifics or indulge in any further discussion. What a jerk!

"Anti-God website" Whaaaat? Then who is it that I've been praying to? Anti-Armstrong is not anti-God. Apparently, Malm still somewhat links the teachings of HWA to God. One has nothing to do with the other, or we would have fled in 1975.

Malm is nothing, and nobody. We mock him regularly for his idiocy, and that has not become the suicidal act that his girlfriend promised it to be. All of them are nobodies, or we'd all be dead by now.

BB

Anonymous said...

In my opinion, it was a waste of time and resources to try to sue over this. It did accomplish one thing, though, by bringing the true nature of all these cults into sharp focus for a lot of people. When I was shafted, I just walked away and that was the beginning of a return to sanity on my part. Today, just the mention of any religion fills me with disgust and revulsion. It's time for the human race to grow up and get away from all this infantile nonsense before it succeeds in wiping us out.

Allen C. Dexter

Anonymous said...

I got a good laugh out of Malm's comment that Dennis Diehl was actually the one behind the entire Scarborough lawsuit! What kind of crazy imagination comes up with stuff like that? What a crackpot!

Malm must really think Dennis is a powerful force if he can somehow influence people he has very likely never met on the other side of the United States.

Anonymous said...

Please appeal. Please, please, please appeal. And have your lawyer take a look at the Leona McNair case, if he hasn't already.

Anonymous said...

Also you should check into getting a restraining order against McNair. If he's calling your new pastor and trying to cause trouble there, it would seem a restraining order could (and should) be obtained. He is so arrogant that he would no doubt violate it at some point, and presto, he gets to spend the night in jail when he does.

DennisCDiehl said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
I got a good laugh out of Malm's comment that Dennis Diehl was actually the one behind the entire Scarborough lawsuit! What kind of crazy imagination comes up with stuff like that? What a crackpot!

Malm must really think Dennis is a powerful force if he can somehow influence people he has very likely never met on the other side of the United States.

August 7, 2016 at 8:31 PM

I never heard of the Scarborough's until I read about the case here on Banned when everyone else did. However, if my information is correct, I spent the past two days at a seminar within a couple miles of Malm and live not very far from him either. Maybe I can visit him and straighten this out?

DennisCDiehl said...

My comment on The Shining Light Blog to James Malm I doubt he will post. So I post it here.

James: I strongly suggest you remove my name from your comments on the Scarborough lawsuit and what you imagine my part in it. I don't know the folk and never heard of the case until I read it on BannedHWA. Also, I am not bitter. I am educated and endeavoring to help those so disposed to avoid the pitfalls of the one man religious show and ideas based on mere Bible reading and not a genuine theological background or training. Remove the insinuation please. It is bogus.

Anonymous said...

The court did the wise thing in staying away from a religious matter. It's a repetition of Acts 18.

Act 18:14 And Paul being about to open his mouth, Gallio said to the Jews, If indeed then, it was anything wrong or wicked criminality, O Jews, according to reason I would endure you.
Act 18:15 But if it is a question of a word and names, and of your law, you look to it. For I do not wish to be a judge of such things.
Act 18:16 And he drove them from the judgment seat.

Anonymous said...

Hopefully, no one here is in any way associated with the racist "Shepherd's Chapel"!!!

Anonymous said...

After reviewing all aspects of this case, I have put both malm's and the lcg's words in a blender and poured it out in my yard.
It's in a special area... FOR ME TO POOP ON!
Love and Poops,
Triumph the Insult Comic Dog

Byker Bob said...

Thanks for the report on Malm's blog site. I hate to visit sites like that, because then the internet companies profile me and make that one of my favorites. I watched the Aron Ra-Dennis Diehl thing, and next thing I know, every time I Googled YouTube for archival music videos, the list would come up, and I'd see the faces of Jerry Garcia, Steve Marriott, Marty Robbins, BB King, and Aron Ra! But, fortunately, all is back to normal now!

BB

Anonymous said...

Elizabeth commented writing that the deposition transcripts revealed: "...At one point, Rod Meredith said that if it were up to him we would NEVER be allowed to attend ANY church of God again. It gave me goosebumps! And he thinks that’s a converted attitude?! Praise God that decision is not his. Meredith also said that “causing church division is worse than murder or child molestation”. Ironic since he’s formed two churches through division himself and we never caused or urged a single person to leave LCG..."

Non-minister, former hireling "little helper" to HWA, and hypocrite (see above paragraph) Rod Meredith, who left his ministerial credentials behind in Pasadena to go off and form his own man-made organizations, has had absolutely nothing to do EVER with who is and who isn't dragged into God's Church, which is still Headed by Jesus Christ someplace on this earth as it has been for about 2,000 years and still isn’t completed. Yes, praise God for all of that: that's His business, if you will.

But is there any Biblical back-up for Rod Meredith saying such stupidity as: "...causing church division is worse than murder or child molestation..."?

Where does Rod, a Rod, any Rod get that? Incidentally, Elizabeth and Patrick now know what it's like to get the "double-Rod!" We've heard of A-Rod, but we have here the double-Rod. As if, a beating from one Rod weren't enough!

Even in the Old Testament when God established, by numerous miracles, the physical nation of Israel, those Israelites could be forgiven for all sorts of sins and a sacrificial system showed that forgiveness was received for everything except for one sin? What as that sin? Any kind of division? Church division? Child molestation? What was the worse sin that God provided no sacrifice for?

Here we see Rod Meredith again lies via his father (John 8:44), the father of lies and murders...and he can't help himself anymore than that generation of evil spirit beings (Matthew 23:29-36) could that Jesus Christ addressed through the Pharisees.

Anyway, the one sin God would not forgive was murder. It is a lie to say: "...causing church division is worse than murder or child molestation."

To be continued…

John

Anonymous said...

Continuing…

King David, NOT always a man after God's own heart, sinned a lot, and what was the worse thing that David did? Murder: premeditated murder at that too! What did God have to say about that, and it is nice that God's thoughts/ways are far higher than Rod's are, far higher than the "double-Rods" of this world's man-made Fear Religions and their Pagan Christianity:

"Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, SAVE ONLY IN the matter of Uriah the Hittite." 1 Kings 15:5

God is not some dummy that so many may like to make Him out to be. All of His works are known to Him (Acts 15:5; Hebrews 4:3) even if we don't comprehend them.

God isn't done with David. David, like all of the rest of us, had to learn to hate evil(s), and God intends to awake him, flesh blood and bone, out of the dust of the earth:

"And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for EVER." Ezekiel 37:25

For those who don't believe in that future event, fine. For those who do, be thankful, because God's love and mercy will be upon you ... and those who do not believed as well, because God just does it.

And unlike Donald Trump, or Hillary Clinton, David then, well-trained, will hold that office for life and he will not be voted into that office. Thank God for that.

Yes, it's a good thing a Rod, or a double-Rod, has no say in who is dragged into an organism called God's Church, and life goes on. Rod, double-Rod, are also having their noses rubbed in lots of evil, which they will also come to one day hate. If they are too blind to see it now, fine, but eventually they too will "get the point." A day when the Rod, the double-Rods, will no longer lie to us. Before all is said and done, all will eventually be taught of God.

Time will tell...

John

Anonymous said...

BB, I do some basic maintenance by running CCleaner and logging in an and out regularly. No big deal to do it.
Additionally, the problem you described may also be related to the settings in the browser you use. As a fellow 'somewhat' techy guy, I know you can get it figured out. I'm sure you're beyond you're old mindset of when you advised people to not allow updates for Windows XP- "for security reasons", lol!

Connie Schmidt said...

I thnk Dennis Diehl should SUE James Malm for SLANDER!

Anonymous said...


Notice that Betty admits that she was hanging out with two trouble-making couples who had been suspended from the LCG for reading the Book of Enoch and having private so-called “Bible studies.” Betty said she wanted to “support” these kooky rebels who were temporarily discouraged and upset after being suspended from the LCG for their divisive behavior. Notice that the kooky troublemakers that Betty tried to show her “unconditional love” to seem to have turned on her now and betrayed her by reporting her own unflattering comments to headquarters. Kooky rebels who read weird stuff and want to have private so-called “Bible studies” will do that sort of thing. Maybe Betty can learn a lesson from all of this.

What always gets called a private “Bible study” typically has nothing to do with studying the Bible. It is usually all about yet another kook with yet another kooky idea that he made up himself or got from reading some weird stuff and that he wants to spread around in some church behind the backs of the ministers. The kook just pretends to have found it in the Bible. While the ministers in the LCG certainly are not perfect, these kooks can be even worse with their endless nutty ideas. It is bad enough already that the old geezers in the LCG have to listen to Rod's so-called “doctrinal upgrades” without other kooks jumping in too with their own private B.S.

RSK said...

Its been 2 or 3 days and I still haven't seen this fire Malm was supposed to call down. "Connie" must have overhyped him.

Mickey said...

Meredith also said that “causing church division is worse than murder or child molestation”.

The amount of hypocrisy and irony is mind blowing.

Anonymous said...

Dennis sue Malm? Malm is broke!
XP updates include snooping software, so I keep mine off.
7.41AM, good post, I agree with you. Bettys unconditional love, is only for babies. The unconditional love belief is typical of people who have heard thousands and thousands of Herbie type sermons, ie complete moral ignorance and confusion. In the real world, love has to be earned. Reference? In proverbs, people court the rich, but shun the poor.

Anonymous said...

She signed her name "Elizabeth". Why "Betty"?

RSK said...

"Dennis sue Malm? Malm is broke!"

Probably true on multiple levels ;)

Anonymous said...

The best thing about John's comments are that you can usually recognize who they're from after reading one two sentences.
At that point I scroll down and see it was him.
Then, I move on.
I am simply tired of his old armstrongist bullshit.
His contributions are oh-so-wordy.
But due to their "Armstrong Factor", they're "oh-so-turdy"

I advise that all reasonable people scroll past John's crap.

Anonymous said...

There must not have been too much on either side of the case. If I recall correctly, it was claimed to have scheduled over 200 depositions. The update from Scarboroughs indicates over 20 hours of depositions. Over-simplistic math averages that to 6 minutes per deposition.

I think it is sad that there are people out there egging-on the Scarboroughs to spend more of their OWN money on something that has very little chance (at this point) to bringing them any restitution. And there is no observation of any one of these encouragers to offer up financial support. I suggest leaving the Scarboroughs alone and go find your own expensive hobby.

I think it is telling that their lawyer logged countless hours chasing the rabbit down the money hole (of their pockets) probably all the while knowing better of the conclusion.

I think it is interesting how many generalizations are made and built on with and aura of absolute authority on the Scarborough's behalf regarding the case (ie: were there REALLY over 200 depositions scheduled?) Many of these statements (SOLD AS TRUTH) would be dissolved should the full legal documentation be published (everything from the original legal complaint, to the depositions and even the Judge’s documented findings (over and above his/her ruling). I assume such a publicizing would be humbling to both sides as much as it could be empowering to both sides. But the point is, false statements meant to be on their behalf serve not only to discredit the commenter, but also cast stones of discredit at the Scarboroughs. Not exactly helpful!

Additionally I find it interesting that now it is asserted to be a "case" completely yielding to the church's religious reasons and practices, thereby acknowledging that the church was within its rights and once upon a time the Scarboroughs were a voluntary member of such beliefs (although now "being hurt/offended by it personally), they knew and understood that they took actions that they knew could trigger a potential "Marking". There-in boiling the whole case down to one topic, SLANDER.

However, in the update letter provided above, there is VERY little about the “slander” case itself. Rather, it dwells on the court of (bias) public opinion about the "MARKING" and not the "slander". If the letter is dissected for focus on the "case" of "slander", the only small reference is, "...but rather that we were suing them for slandering us on multiple occasions with statements that we can easily prove were false AND of a vindictive nature"...

So what is left? Are those (provable) statements, recordings, documentations to be published in context of the audiences that witnessed them (thus proving the slander)?

As real and probable as the offences are, I think Scarborough's have not been well served by this blog or those of us commenting here.

I know here recently we (commenters) have preached about the power of saying we're sorry... we're wrong.

Patrick & Elizabeth I can't apologize for anyone else.... but I can say I am sorry. Maybe social media has struck again creating more problems than it fixed. But it only took what I too freely decided to give it.

I am sorry. Please be well.

Byker Bob said...

I had read that about that snooping software in a reputable source, 9:56. I now have Windows 10 on my main computer, and keep it air gapped because I can't afford mishaps with my business accounting, or the software used to host and test various customer machines. People suggest antiviris software, but at some point, that takes over your computer if you don't renew it. My internet activity is now exclusively on my Apple and Android devices. So far, so good. No online banking.

BB

Byker Bob said...

I had read that about that snooping software in a reputable source, 9:56. I now have Windows 10 on my main computer, and keep it air gapped because I can't afford mishaps with my business accounting, or the software used to host and test various customer machines. People suggest antiviris software, but at some point, that takes over your computer if you don't renew it. My internet activity is now exclusively on my Apple and Android devices. So far, so good. No online banking.

BB

whatmeworry said...

To the Scarborough's: If you can, keep the case open. You are discouraged, but if God be with us, who can be against us? You may be able to bankrupt the church itself if you can wear them down, and maybe go a little more public with your story. The press LOVE this kind of stuff and it will only bring negativity to the church, not you. The general public hates cults, compare them to Scientology and Warren Jeffs polygamist sects. It will at least taint the possibility of any new converts. Maybe open a Go Fund Me account and tap into the public bias over cults. Seriously, skip your local press and go right to the NY Times. I am positive you will get results!

RSK said...

One word that won't be applied to John is "succinct".

Anonymous said...

Anon at 10:42 Agreed! That is the same thing most of us do when we see the word "trade." We stop reading and go to the next comment.

Anonymous said...

BB I've read that windows 10 has auto updates that can't be turned off. Some people have complained of losing dozens of installed programs with a Windows update. Definitely keep it air gaped as you say.

Anonymous said...

Number 1 happened in 2009 and number 2 happened in 2011. If we ignore the fact that that they are both utterly ridiculous reasons for LCG to punish one of its members, can we focus on the fact that these "offenses" should have been forgiven well before 2014?

Isn't that what Passover is all about?

I know LCG has had some strange doctrinal "upgrades" but did they change Passover too?

The wonderful thing is that Rod McNair and Rod Meredith will be given mercy precisely to the degree they have afforded mercy to others. The end will not be good for either of them.

They mock the sacrifice of Jesus Christ's death for the remission of their sins when they take the Passover while continuing to keep a little black book with members sins in it from year to year!

What hypocrites.

Anonymous said...

The men at LCG HQs are clearly the modern day Pharisees. They care about toga parties and Andrew's Sisters songs, private Bible studies and the Book of Enoch but they completely neglect the weightier issues of the law like love, peace, mercy, kindness and forgiveness.

It's far easier to be a legalist who keeps the Sabbath on the right day and refrains from shellfish and pork than it is to actually walk the walk.

I wonder if LCG members reading this letter think Elizabeth's offenses are worthy of marking. I curious as to what the mindset of the average cult member is in this situation.

Anonymous said...

Anon said "when we see the eord 'trade'..."
LOL
yep

Anonymous said...

Well, what you people really can't handle is TradeRalphbloodJohn, the new hybrid of all your favorite windbags. :)

Anonymous said...

Number 1 happened in 2009 and number 2 happened in 2011. If we ignore the fact that that they are both utterly ridiculous reasons for LCG to punish one of its members, can we focus on the fact that these "offenses" should have been forgiven well before 2014?

The Scarboroughs aren't the only mystery floating around LCG HQ. Robinson and Bowmer would have committed their offenses after Passover 2016. Do we really know what happened with them? Robinson used to be Managing Editor, but Wallace Smith now has that job. Bowmer used to be Executive Editor, yet it seems nobody has that job now. Robinson and his family have moved back to Texas, and Bowmer has told people in Charlotte that he did not "retire," but simply resigned. Robinson was stripped of his elder credentials, while Bowmer was never even ordained (strange for such a prominent position).

Did McNair push these men out? Did he trump up false charges? Did he need to attack them to protect his friends? Now that Meredith has been vindicated in court, will he step up the purges against others he wants gone? If I worked at LCG HQ I would be very nervous now. Just what else are Meredith and McNair capable of?

Byker Bob said...

This record keeping is apparently another something that doesn't stop just because someone has left an ACOG. It boggles the mind that someone would remember me cautioning people about XP updates. That had to have been 7-9 years ago! I mean, Vista came out as the replacement for XP in early '07!

In the ACOGs, people speak of growth. By that, they mean growth towards better adherence to a standard which was frozen at the time HWA passed away. They somehow never mean spiritual evolution on a personal level, and to a more Godly state of consciousness. As has been noted, the Scarborough "marking" offenses took place multiple Passovers ago, and that assumes that they were wrong and required repentence and forgiveness in the first place!

There is mala in se, and mala prohibita. Mala in se acts are inherently evil illegal acts, recognized as such by all civilized societies (and some of the ten commandments) throughout history. Mala prohibita acts are illegal soley because an official, or a statute has deemed them so. The mala prohibita "offenses" used against the Scarboroughs were even treated through ex post facto enactments by the Rods to have been grounds for disfellowshipment. The one offense that was traditional and known throughout Armstrongism is violation of the shunning rule, yet Paul speaks of the rewards for bringing people back into the faith who had departed. The people from whom Christians were to separate themselves were those who were committing horrible, riotous sins that would tempt others to be drawn into. Orgies or drunkenness are examples. There is nothing wrong with encouraging someone who may have had moments of weakness or difficulty in understanding, but there would be plenty wrong with tying one on some Saturday night with disfellowshipped people at, say, a gentlemen's club. There is a big difference. Also, knowing church people, and in consideration of the toga party, I am sure that all who attended were modest with their togas, probably wore underwear and all.

BB

Anonymous said...

Who pays attention to the craziness coming from James Malm? He has proven himself to be an inveterate liar. He has to be the most joyless man the apostate church has ever given birth to. Like dogs returning to their vomit Malm has whored himself out to the law.

Anonymous said...

Anon1:47PM, we might be looking at some pre-purge bloodletting. The political power brokers (with the holy spirit) in Charlotte are probably already getting their political ducks in a row, massing their troops on the borders, and making strategic clandestine strikes in anticipation of the bloodbath that will occur when Meredith dies. The one (with the holy spirit) who waits until the battle starts to let the hostilities commence plans to lose. The last one (with the holy spirit) in is a rotten egg!

All these guys have the holy spirit, didn't you know? And this is how it works powerfully within them, didn't you know? That's what they have to say about themselves at least, and a person with the holy spirit would never lie, would he?

Anonymous said...

This blog and those who come here to obtain "news" ought to remember Proverbs 18:17 (NKJV) - "The first one to plead his cause seems right, until his neighbor comes and examines him." You all are only getting one side of the story on this court case. Like the old saying goes, "Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear.”

Anonymous said...

Did the Scarborough's get the un-edited version of services the day they were marked? They were clearly slandered that day. I was there.

Even after that day, they continued to be slandered by headquarters ministers over and over again.

I heard Rod McNair with my own ears spreading the lie that the Scarborough's were "starting their own church" which obviously isn't true and was designed to make them look bad.

Rod McNair is a liar. He is ruining LCG. I keep believing that his lies will be exposed but he just keeps getting away with bad behavior.

McNair is RCM's favorite pet and so he just rubber stamps whatever crazy recommendations McNair brings to him without a second thought.

McNair is running LCG no matter what anyone else says. And THAT is why LCG is on a fast downward spiral.

Anonymous said...

4.37 PM it's Rod and friends who give one side of the court case, or rather hide that a court case even exists. It's because the slivers only give their one side, that these 'dissident' sites exist. Note the diversity of opinions here. Where do you find such tolerance in any church.
Your comment assumes that people can think and decide for themselves. Yet this too, is not permitted in the sliver churches. Again, the fox moralising to the chickens.

Anonymous said...

4:37PM the proverbs you quoted might be true, however I asked a longstanding lcg member if he heard of an ongoing lawsuit involving his church and another party and he didn't have a clue what I was talking about, apparently I found out that not even his local elder knew about the lawsuit smh, so your point is irrelevant, most would never know of a lawsuit including myself if it wasn't for this blog, my poor friends in lcg don't know about the lawsuit because they are encouraged not to read negative material about the church, remember it is lcg that keeps it's members in ignorance, then they give the congregation only their side not allowing them to hear the other side of the story for themselves,only a few bold ones dare to be their own man or woman and check other sources of information no matter how negative it may sound, so who does the Proverb you quoted applies to, really just think, don't get twisted, there wouldn't be another side to the story if this blog and others like it didn't exist.

Anonymous said...

"Ecclesiastical abstenation grounds". Is that what the Catholic Church used to get their pedophile priests off the hook. I feel they can do anything to us and get away with it. Times have changed since the Leona McNair case. LCG who are now in cohoots with the evangelicals are applying their laws to God's people(to persecute). I am sure McNair will step up his efforts to make more purges, now he has got the Government of the USA ok (a government Hillary Clinton has been running using Obama as a puppet). Remember this happen in the New Testament church. History repeats itself.

dan said...

Can she post the "release" that was so inflammatory?