Saturday, November 5, 2016

Dave Pack: My Sermons Are So Astounding I Can Never Out Do Myself

Leave it to Dave Pack to set himself up for yet another failure.  Dave has started publishing the transcripts to his mind numbing series of sermons that he has given over the  last couple of years.

Dave has now started posting the many sermons transcripts that tell the story of how he sees the end times coming about.  This first sermon is the most astounding sermon that mere mortals will ever hear!
Now, that said, I am quite certain I have never given, maybe never will…but I have never given a sermon and a Bible study that is as important as this one. I would say even no chance of one more important. This will be a game-changer in many regards.
Pack wants everyone to know what a special mind he has, one that is so incredibly fabulous that it can come with sermons that will be delivered 20-30 years later. Dave's latest endless sermons series actually started decades ago as he was training at Herbert Armstrong's feet.

Thirty-three years ago, I got an idea for a sermon, and some of it was born from a discussion with Mr. Armstrong, but I can remember it was about 1982. I wrote down the title of a sermon I wanted to give, and I put it in my files. I think I actually wrote a couple different sermons at that point. We grabbed one. It never matured.
Now, most of you don’t know. I have a system different from all the other men I ever knew. It was just a system that worked for me. I wanted to have a tremendous amount of material ready to go whenever it was time to deliver a sermon, so I would often, and many, many times…most of my ministry, in fact… deliver sermons that I had conceived years before. I would wait until the sermon “ripened”…and sometimes, it could be as much as 20 or 30 years after the idea had come to me before I would give a sermon.
So I have files…actually, of hundreds of sermons…that Mr. Herzog keeps now of sermons I have never given, in various stages of development. As I would get more material, I would throw it into a folder. My folders, just…probably, “this big” [gestures with hands] of ideas I’ve never given, and “this big” of those I have, not counting the extraneous material that I carry up with me.
But I wanted the idea. I’ll often write down a sermon title. But…a sermon can be born on a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday, and then delivered on the Sabbath…or it can go back 30 years. I actually have ideas in my files that go back to when I was a student—almost 50 years. I’m 49 and a half years in God’s way, and I’d heard an idea mentioned, once upon a time…I didn’t want to be boring. I wanted my sermons to be interesting, and I learned quickly, when I worked on speeches longer, they were more interesting; less…not so much, and so that gave birth to a system……
 Is there no end to the narcissism the man is consumed with?

Dave is such an outstanding theologically educated man, who has now on his own, has summed up every single theme in the bible and boiled it all down " a few summary statements or topics."
The Bible can be reduced to a few summary statements or topics. It’s a book about government. This much I knew a third of a century ago, when I first began thinking about this subject…what I’m going to mention.
It’s about law. They are somewhat inseparable, but they are different.
Centuries of theological discussions in seminaries, colleges, councils, churches, and classrooms has been totally worthless because Dave has been able to do it all on his own.  Two thousands years of church history, endless discussions and debate are nothing compared to the outstanding mind of Dave Pack.

How can anyone sit there in his church and believe this bullshit?

From The Greatest Story Never Told


Anonymous said...

One reason members believe Dave and other ministers bull, is because of the nature of sermon presentations. This is more obvious if one watches a rock concert on YouTube. The band on the stage with thousands of adoring fans, gives them a junior God aura. It's hypnotic. Ministers use this same psychology to psych out their members during church services. They too are on stage, with the microphone volume deliberately set high, and all the members hanging on to every word.
Which is why outsiders can easily discern what's really happening in these slivers, but the attending members have to struggle to perceive the truth.

Anonymous said...

The only summary statement about the Bible Dave missed was the New Testament.

Sweetblood777 said...

I printed out his latest and have started going through it with a yellow highlighter. The first serious mistake I came across, is his statement that the Bible is a book about law. Well, if one thinks about it, it really isn't, its a book about love.

Love is how we relate to ourselves and others. To do this, there are standards of behavior. This behavior can best be shorten down to the Ten Commandments. For thousands of years, Israel was to live by these laws. When Yahshua came, He added a spiritual aspect to the commandments, in that our very thoughts should also reflect the spiritual behavior of these commandments.

So no, Dave, government is not what the Bible is based on. True government is putting into practice the standard of love. The type of government the cogs practice is not based on love, but rather self enrichment, for it directs others to those controlling it, while it should be the opposite.

A true pastor enriches the flock. He does not use and abuse them. You will learn that when the Master returns and tells you, 'I never knew you.'

Hoss said...

From what I read in this post, Dave's latest sermon is full of his favorite catchphrases. Maybe his IT guys have developed the iSermon app to generate random sermons. The transcript version is available but they still have a lot to do to get the voice synthesis right.

Steve D said...

Here is a good summary of Scripture: When a potential convert approached Hillel and asked to be taught the entire Torah while standing on one foot, Hillel summarized as follows, “That which is hateful to you do not do to others. All the rest is commentary. Now go and learn.” (Shabbos 31A)
Jesus said about the same, when asked what is the greatest commandment. Love God and love your neighbor. Of course, the term love was understood by the Jews not to be a noun, as feeling of affection. Rather, it was a verb, it was something that you did, rather than or in spite of your feelings. Treat him in a loving way. Perhaps in time your heart will catch up with your actions.

Minimalist said...

What deity worth his salt wouldn’t create a utopian theocracy?
All three Abrahamic religions have promised, but failed to deliver this:
Their attempts: Holy Roman Empire, ISIS... turn out more like Hell-on-Earth.
19th-century American fundamentalist Premillennialism has all but faded --
- the latest to capitulate being Armstrongism, throwing in the towel in 1995.

Byker Bob said...

About ten years ago, while browsing in a Christian bookstore, I noticed that there are actually books of a wide variety of sermons, intended to be read and used by pastors, as appropriate. There are also historic books of sermons given by some of the pastors considered to have been great and influential over the decades. We all know that none of Dave's sermons would appear in these reference books.

In so many cases in the old WCG, the sermons were boring, but members trying to maintain the "right attitude" would feign interest, nodding their heads and taking copious notes. There were some perennially inspiring speakers, like Al Portune, and David Antion, and even GTA in his prime, but in so many cases, the sermons given by others were unexceptional. From the 1970s on, any time HWA gave a sermon, you just knew in advance that it was going to be about the two trees (again!). Others had similar problems with sameness. The constant dirge was boring, something one paid attention to out of a sense of duty.

If you surveyed all of these ministers, I am certain that you'd find that most of them had probably put a great deal of effort into preparing their sermons, and would describe themselves as being interesting speakers. But, one is forced to look at their report cards. In a way, they are not all that different from musicians, or other performing artists. Their report card is how many people are attracted by what they do. How many followers have they amassed? If what Dave believes about himself were true, RCG would be the largest ACOG. You can apply that same standard to any of the splinter leaders operating today. It almost seems cruel to apply it to some of the more pathetic ones, but sometimes reality is painful.


James said...

" I have a system different from all the other men I ever knew. It was just a system that worked for me. I wanted to have a tremendous amount of material ready to go whenever it was time to deliver a sermon, so I would often, and many, many times…most of my ministry, in fact… deliver sermons that I had conceived years before. "


This is what fiction writers do. Collect ideas and develop them. If he had a solid 'truth' it wouldn't need to be developed, it would be evident and could be spoken of in a moments notice.

Anonymous said...

How many times did someone next to you, once the sermon was finished, say "That was a good sermon!" Anyone remember anyone saying, "That sermon sucked!"? They were probably disfellowshipped soon after for daring to have an opinion.

The "good sermon" line was one of many things that people said, as if there were a switch on them: flick it, this is what they say. The time had come to say it -- they said it.

In the dark fantasyland of WCG or groups it bred, It HAD to be good because a True Minister of God's Only Church gave it. But the ability to preach compellingly was 'way down the list of what qualified you to be a "minister" in that world. Probably wasn't on the list at all. You might get lucky and have a local pastor who spoke well -- and then receive the envy of those in adjacent church areas who had someone generic.

All that chatter of "not worshipping the MAN" when that was going on constantly, even at local level. But such an era is long since ended -- now they have, in so many words, to TELL you how great they are. Sheesh.

Anonymous said...

Watching the televangelists, I can't help notice that their sermons and theology (eg., "healing is a right since 'by His strikes you are healed'") is near identical to WWCG sermons and theology. It seems that Herbie and friends copied the Protestants rather than looking hard at what the bible says.
PS healing can only be a right if God sits on a toilet seat rather than a great thrown (with the accompanying right to say NO).
I repeat, God sits on a great throne rather than a toilet seat.

Anonymous said...

"how can anyone sit there in his church and believe this.....?"

Several reasons:
1. People aren't reading their Bibles! The Same Bible that described the cooperation of the New Testament Church...[yes they a for while had things in "common"] also mention in Psalm 128 and Ecc 3 that its right and good to enjoy the fruits of your honest work!
Dave here, along with "Six-Pack" Flurry and "I'm the 3rd in the Universe"
Meredith don't agree with that
2. People aren't comparing the fruits of their so-called ministers to the real teachings of Jesus Christ.....nobody seems to notice how much Dave(and the other so-called ministers) point you to THEM not Christ not God. "I Love myself" We were warned in II Timothy 3 about end-time "lovers of their own selves"
Have we learned nothing??
3. People are measuring Christianity(their group) by buildings, TV time, booklets, all physical. In fact, many are starting to build Idols. Instead of Stone and Wood, its now "we're doing the greatest work"...we're publishing the most this or that material...
As in its OK to criticize brothers and sisters because they don't support
your group...because you're printing more booklets. Oh Really?
How Christian is that?

Black Ops Mikey said...

Don't you all so feel so privileged to know someone who is greater than God?

Anonymous said...

32 I's. Not bad

Connie Schmidt said...

Davey Says--
" I have a system different from all the other men I ever knew. It was just a system that worked for me.... in fact… deliver sermons that I had conceived years before. ...I wait until the sermon “RIPENED” "… (emphasis mine)

>>YEP- about as "ripened" as FULL DIAPER in need of changing!

Steve D said...

"But the ability to preach compellingly was 'way down the list of what qualified you to be a "minister" in that world." Right you are. What qualified you for promotion was loyalty . . . . to HWA. Those who weren't absolutely loyal were banned to Bricket Wood for "rehabilitation." Those who were most loyal would move up to the fourth floor of the Hall of Ad. live in a lovely home on Waverly Drive, have a company car, expense account, title, etc. Who could give that all up if you had a degree from AC and little prospects outside the WCG?

Byker Bob said...

To get the full brunt of Dave's ego, we need to also recall past reports to the effect that nobody is allowed to leave in the middle of one of his sermons to use the restroom. Seriously? Most bowel movements are preceded by some pretty serious gas. Polite and civilized people generally interpret that as a signal to go to the restroom, a facility set up to isolate odors. So, one can only imagine the displeasure of, and embarrassment of members forced to suppress mother nature just for the sake of Dave's ego. I dare say the audience must be subject to occasional hellacious stenches, to say nothing of laugh-inducing noises! These are much more disturbing than it would be for someone to quietly leave the hall.

It has also been said that any small child that makes any sort of audible sound during the sermon is branded as being demon-possessed, or used by Satan to interrupt "Mr." Pack's sermon.

Humility is clearly only intended as a Christ-like virtue for the lowly members of RCG, not its vaulted leader.


Hoss said...

Steve D said: When a potential convert approached Hillel

Apparently the other great teacher of the time, Shammai, was also approached, and he hit the person with a stick and told them to get out.

What would a COGleader do?

Steve D said...

Hoss said, "Shammai, was also approaches, and he hit the person with a stick . ." What would a C of G leader do? Easy. Excommunicate . . . . MARK! Demonize . . . destroy his reputation . . . . Just as any good Christian would do.

Black Ops Mikey said...

God resists the proud?

That's just so wrong!

Retired Prof said...

Anonymous November 6, 2016 at 6:32 AM says, "I repeat, God sits on a great throne rather than a toilet seat."

I thought God was ubiquitous. If so, he sits on both simultaneously. Also, I am curious: Why does a hypothetical deity sitting on a toilet seat have no power to say "NO"? I have read that Lyndon Baines Johnson often made both positive and negative pronouncements while sitting on a toilet seat, speaking to someone on the other side of the partition. Was he more powerful than God, to be able to do that?

Anonymous said...

Retired Prof, Ha, ha, ha.

Anonymous said...

It's an old idea.The throne of man is a toilet, we can't stop shitting.