From an LCG source:
In his recent Living Church News Rod Meredith takes a swipe at Jim Franks and Vick Kubik in his editorial by stating, "We need to “see” His hand as He leads His Church—continuing to have at least one faithful group preaching the whole Truth, doing the Work and practicing the government of God, and so training its members in the exact kind of government we will be administering in tomorrow’s world!"
LCG may pretend to be diplomatic with COGWA and UCG by letting them tour LCG headquarters in Charlotte and by wining and dining them over a meal at Brio's (Meredith takes everyone to the same place) but it's all a farce. He and his ministers continue to preach that LCG is the ONE AND ONLY true church of God; that they are the only Philadelphian remnant; that membership in any other group makes you Laodicean and puts your eternal salvation at risk, etc, etc.
Usually Meredith tries to be more subtle about his swipes on other ACOGs, limiting them to sermons and private conversations, but this recent slip puts it all out there. I wonder how Franks and Kubik will feel having their noses squashed.
It's obvious what fruits LCG's "exact kind of government" have produced. Tyranny and abuse without checks and balances. LCG wants to pretend that their form of government is better than voting because it avoids politicking but that isn't true. LCG headquarters is the epitome of politics, favoritism, ass-kissing, back-stabbing.
LCG's superiority complex is disgusting. If I were Jim Franks or Victor Kubik I'd quit pretending that Rod Meredith is anything other than a lying, greedy, power-hungry, tyrant who uses fear to rule. Take the gloves off and give Mr. Golden Gloves what he deserves.
46 comments:
They all hype what supposedly makes them special and different, as if they believe that's going to attract splinter surfers. I have a mental picture of all of these ego-infested leaders just seething during their private moments over the fact that they just can't collect the whole pie, or even a major piece. That, and the fact that the tribulation never gets around to arriving must make their lives miserable.
And, they criticize dissidents who only want to hold them accountable.
BB
ONE AND ONLY
Didn't Rod earlier hold the position that LCG was only one of the remnants of the (Mythical) Truth Church? Maybe he realized that approach would invite the disgruntled to try one of the 300+ other flavors of Armstrongism.
Don't kid yourself. The splinter leaders know that this talk is all for show, for the dumb sheep. Just look on Facebook to see how chummy they are with each other when they think they are alone among friends. Vic Kubik wrote a nice note to Jim Meredith on Facebook on October 30, and Susan Meredith replied warmly. While Vic was in Maui for the Feast, I'm sure he missed seeing his old buddy Jim there, so he had been following Jim's posts about his South Africa trip. Jim is political enough to do what it takes to keep his gravy train rolling after daddy Rod takes his dirt nap, even if it means setting Weston and Kubik against each other to keep Jim happy.
All:
From a long time COG member, who's traversed a number of COG Groups...
LCOG has a real attitude, it isn't just in Charlotte but in local church areas as well, we've seen a condescending arrogance to those of "other" groups. We've been snubbed and pushed off as second-rate people. Its like we have to bow to them.
We're done with trying! Multiple times reaching out to former once long time friends who "wouldn't be caught dead" with us now.....
I'll let Jesus Christ judge us. NOT THEM
Show me where in the Bible that states that Yahweh's government is hierarchical. Why does the cogs use this form of government? It can be only for the means of controlling its members, even to the point that their spiritual growth only extends to that of the head honcho.
7 Billion people on the planet and all these guys have to do is to have a pissing contest over the few thousand former WCGrs that are around in other groups. Talk about myopic vision!
Its sort of like being in the Mafia. The various gangs pay great attention to one another, their little wars, turfs , status etc, while the rest of the real world goes on without paying them any attention at all.
Sad, very sad.
Its sort of like being in the Mafia
Or maybe, it's exactly like being in the Mafia.
"We are family" indeed. Bah. Humbug. (Too early?)
Anon 5:52 AM,
No doubt that LCOG, the United Ass., the COGW Ass., etc. are not God’s Church, although there may be some sealed Firstfruits amongst them that comprise God’s Church; time will tell!
You wrote: “...I'll let Jesus Christ judge us. NOT THEM...”
Will Jesus Christ let you do that? Well, you can do and think whatever you want, but how would Jesus Christ judge us? Really?
When Jesus walked this earth comment was made regarding His judging, which stated: “Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.” John 8:15 That is what Jesus told the Pharisees.
The Apostle Paul admitted something about what God would accomplish:
“To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, NOT imputing their trespasses unto them...” 2 Corinthians 5:19
How is God doing that reconciling, such that trespasses of this world won’t be imputed to them? Ask Vic Kubik, Jim Franks and Rod Meredith...let them tell you/us!
So far they haven’t “xplained” that verse (2 Cor 5:19) to us, but again, how do you think Jesus Christ will judge us?
Is it possible, even remotely possible, that Jesus Christ may quote some of His earlier spoken words? Such as: “Verily I say unto you, All sins SHALL be forgiven unto the sons of men, AND blasphemies wherewith soever they SHALL blaspheme:” Mark 3:28
Whether you understand how Jesus Christ will judge us or not, fortunately, or unfortunately, the xcogs, like the Sadduccees and Pharisees, will continue to judge us just like they did to Jesus Christ. They really can’t help themSELVES (James 4:5, John 8:44, 1 John 3:8, Matthew 23)! By their fruits you know them...and their father!
And time will tell...
John
All authoritarian groups are like the Mafia. It's the original setup of the christian church that takes it's basic lines of authority directly from Imperial Rome.
Allen C. Dexter
6.24AM the more significant issue is the role of government. According to conservative blogs, the only role of government is the protection of peoples rights. Whenever God criticizes government, it's always for mistreating its subjects, and not protecting the vulnerable.
Is he going to smack down the two ministers and music director that brought in some members of United to introduce Christian Rock during services at LCG's feast site in PCB?
Sweetblood777 asked:
Show me where in the Bible that states that Yahweh's government is hierarchical.
The Babylonian records show very clearly that the Council of 70 Gods was hierarchical, headed by El, the Most High God, and that Yahweh was a relatively minor member of that council, a rather junior son of El, being the national god of one very small group of people for whom he was the only god they were to worship.
Here we go again. Another story lying about God's ministers. Shame on you!
to John 10:07
i should have been more clear, my statement was towards LCOG who deam us outside their as inferior, I meant not be judged by THEM. Not the blog writers here.
BTW, I think Christ's statements in Matth 25 do mention a judgement that He does at the end.
"We need to 'see' His hand as He leads His Church..."
I thought the christian texts repeatedly say that faith is required because the christian god deliberately keeps his followers in pitchblack darkness. In the Doubting Thomas pericope in John, he specifically says it is blessed to be blind in this fashion. And here's Meredith claiming that his dupes "need to 'see'" in this darkness? Meredith really doesn't know his bible, does he?
Gods government is hierarchical?? There are dozens of mentions of this in the bible.
For instance, two of the disciples wanted to be at the top of the heap in the kingdom. Christ didn't reply be saying that hierarchy doesn't exist. Let see, 'the first shall be last and the last first,' 'the servant is not greater than the master,' Christ said that the Father is greater than He, some rule one city and some ten, etc, etc. All human societies are hierarchical. Name one in human history that wasn't. The only one that came remotely close were the Spartans with their no money economy. But they had a quarter million local slaves (ie hierarchy), and their army still had hierarchy.
12.20 PM if these are 'Gods ministers,' why isn't God blessing these 'ministers' churches? We do not agree that these ministers are junior gods that are above moral assessment.
What he deserves?
When did God move off his throne and set you up as judge and jury?
Sorry, overboard article.
Whether churches should be hierarchical or not, is only a issue because the ministers are lording it over members faith, which the bible strongly condemns. For instance, in the OT God turned a Israeli king (after being warned) into a leper when he took on priestly duties. God enforced the separation of state and religion.
This example doesn't bother church leaders, who teach otherwise. They do this by using the common technique of strongly implying a wrong idea (ministers can lord it over members faith via the disguise of 'administering Gods government') together with using the 'magic' of repetition to break through members mental barriers.
I believe that many of today's ministers will not be in the kingdom.
The Acog's take their basic lines of authority directly from Imperial Rome by using the bible which is a Catholic book.
Anon 12:20 says, "Here we go again. Another story lying about God's ministers. Shame on you!"
Holy cow! How deceived you must be. There is no spin on this story. This story isn't opinion or gossip. IT'S ROD MEREDITH'S OWN WORDS AS PRINTED IN THE LATEST LYING CHURCH NEWS!!!
How can Banned be accused of "another lying story" when it's just exposing what Meredith wrote IN HIS OWN WORDS???
Take your blinders off. If you are a member of LCG as I was for WAY too many years, you have to admit that this superior mindset is extremely prevalent in LCG minister and membership. They all think they are in the only church and super extra special over and above all others. They think that the other ACOGs are all foolish and blinded Laodiceans and warn true followers to stay away or risk being deceived (it only takes a little poison to spoil something... how many times have I heard that?!).
God's "church" is a collection of people. IT HAS ZERO TO DO WITH MEMBERSHIP IN ANY ORGANIZATION. Some go to various churches. Some don't. It's your behavior that qualifies your membership. From my personal experience, 80% of LCG members and more like 90% of LCG ministers don't know the first thing about love, mercy, understanding and servant leadership. They are all too hopped up on power and ego counting themselves sealed to rule over others in the Kingdom. The God I worship and adore would never put people with that type of character in charge!
Rod Meredith has published a new article about God's control of the weather, such as His choice to smash LCG's Hilton Head feast site.
In this article about weather and God's power, how does Rod's fourth paragraph begin:
Thousands of you realize that I am the last one of the five original evangelists ordained by Herbert W. Armstrong back in December 1952.
What a self-absorbed, narcissistic ass! At least Rod recognizes that God is using the weather to punish him for his sinful leadership of LCG. Well, actually, he doesn't recognize that. He says that God is using weather disasters to punish other people, but Rod says nothing about what he or his LCG may be doing that warrants such punishment as was delivered on the Hilton Head feast site. Maybe he's saving that for the next issue?
Sweetblood777 said "Show me where in the Bible that states that Yahweh's government is hierarchical. Why does the cogs use this form of government?"
Power. They already have it now and they won't let go of it if they don't have to. Sadly, they so oftenly find themselves all tired out and sitting by the side of the road because they spend all their energy trying to trip each other up for the fear of someone else might be getting ahead.
While going nowhere, Fearald Slurry says "Hold the head higher!", like that helps.
DBP
Christian Rock?
More like lame mediocre rock that ain't selling, so put it in a category with no or very little competition. Maximize your profit!
YAY! Instant christain rock gods!
Why this unbeliever in UCG can not worked out that Mr. Herbert Armstrong finished work and this is time for preparation of the bride. There will be no more preaching, only two witnesses will finished last part of it.
I thought the exact same thing when I read this editorial in the LCN. The wording of this banned post is funny because I turned to my wife and said something to the effect of "I hope COGWA and UCG don't read this". It could certainly be bad for diplomatic relations with LCG although I suspect that Mr. Franks and Mr. Kubik are already aware that LCG preaches that the are the one and only so it might not be as much of a shock/insult as it appears to be at face value.
@ anon 3:20 RCM changes his mind every few years...
When UCG and COGWA split he preached that we were all parts of the "greater COG" and emphasized LCG's similarities as he was greedily hoping to see unhappy UCG members joining LCG.
Most of the time LCG is the one and only true COG.
On occasion, LCG is the "spear head" of the COG.
No matter how you slice it, according to RCM, he's more right about pretty much everything and everyone should bow to him or you are guilty of not obeying the government of God for which he is the self appointed human leader directly under and led by Christ Himself.
If Rod Meredith, Victor Kubik and Jim Franks got into a fight, who would win?
IIija, you are mistaken, because the 'preparation of the bride' is achieved by supporting the work. It is a tool of personal growth. We grow spiritually by praying for the work. They are not separate, but rather complimentary. This present generation needs to be witnessed to as well, because God loves every generation.
Opinionated; How is the Bible a catholic book?
From your friend the "nasty little bitch".
7.38PM. Who would win? Three grandpa Simpsons fighting each other. Ha, ha ha. The one who falls asleep last, would win.
"God's "church" is a collection of people. IT HAS ZERO TO DO WITH MEMBERSHIP IN ANY ORGANIZATION. Some go to various churches. Some don't. It's your behavior that qualifies your membership. From my personal experience, 80% of LCG members and more like 90% of LCG ministers don't know the first thing about love, mercy, understanding and servant leadership." November 1, 2016 at 3:43 PM
Yes, and remember that all organizations are set up by men.
Sow,...maybe that's the reason why all they can see is competition. I'll add to the qualifications that it is the growing success in developing the skills in love, mercy, understanding and servant leadership, including their ability to teach others what they are most skilled in is what qualifies them in the eyes of a God.
Not man.
DBP
Who's who?
RCM changes his mind every few years
Could this have something to do with the arrival of Gerald Weston? Weston has long been known for telling people that LCG is the one true Church of God, just as Charles Bryce did for many years. After all, as others have noted, being in LCG is such a joyless and fear-filled experience that nobody would want to do it if there was any alternative. So, tell 'em they'll go to the Lake of Fire, or at the very least into the Tribulation, if they leave LCG, and they'll stay around for even more abuse!
exact kind of government
Rod is teaching his people that there will be adulterers put in positions of authority over the Kingdom?
Rod is teaching his people that God will put pathological liars in high positions in the Kingdom?
Rod is teaching his people that the Father will gossip to some spirit beings about the faults he sees in other spirit beings?
Rod is teaching his people that the Father believes that lying to other members of the God Family is sometimes justified?
If Rod is teaching that LCG is now practicing the exact kind of government there will be in the Kingdom of God, then the Kingdom of God will seem more like the Kingdom of Satan, and I, for one, want no part of it.
Many ministers seem to be afflicted with a serious bout of spiritual sickness. It is not something to gloat over but something to guard against and be aware of.
I once attended a LCG campaign seminar. It put me off joining LCG for life. I arrived with high hopes and left with deep concerns. The LCG ministry were about as approachable as Adolf Hitler. Stand over there, for we are much holler than thou.
I once attended a LCG campaign seminar. It put me off joining LCG for life. I arrived with high hopes and left with deep concerns. The LCG ministry were about as approachable as Adolf Hitler.
Same here. I don't think the LCG ministers believe in 1 Corinthians 1:24. "Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand."
The LCG ministers act as if they have dominion over the faith of the LCG members, and even in talking to a few LCG members at their campaign meeting I could see that their ministers gave them fear, not joy.
Anon 12:42 PM said: "...i should have been more clear, my statement was towards LCOG who deam us outside their as inferior, I meant not be judged by THEM. Not the blog writers here.
BTW, I think Christ's statements in Matth 25 do mention a judgement that He does at the end."
I understand it is not the blog writers. LCOG ministry are all right, pure, white, sinless in their own eyes when they compare themselves with any others whether they be organizations or this blog site.
Yes, Matthew 25 covers a judgment of Jesus Christ, which applies after the second resurrection. The sheep, those on Jesus' right hand, represent "the rest" of humanity (non-sealed Firstfruits that make up the Bride), and the judgment via God's Plan is:
:34 "...Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"
Jesus understood how Satan and his demons, represented by the goats on Jesus' left hand, infested and infected all humanity from the days of Adam and Eve when that vile, evil, thing, Satan, entered that Garden of Eden. That thing is perfectly evil and its judgment was also prepared, you may say "reserved" for it from the foundation of the world:
:41 "...Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"
Note that there is no mention of human beings there and it will occur sometime after the second resurrection happens...and what is the final state of those goats (Also recall the goat of Leviticus 16, the goat, not any Israelites, that got all of the sins put on its head on the Day of Atonement)?
:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
God will make the human beings righteous, and what Paul wrote will finally be reality for the world:
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, NOT imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." 2 Corinthians 5:19
But, God has to do that as part of His Plan for humanity and that one generation of evil spirit beings.
Only after that second resurrection occurs and we all see how God takes and destroys Satan and his angels will most people come to eventually believe those words of Paul.
When Jesus Christ apparently chewed out Pharisees, religion leaders, in Matthew 23, in reality He was blasting out that one generation of evil spirits that infested/infected them religious leaders like pawns:
Matthew 23:33 "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 ¶ Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation."
The religious leaders did not live during the days of Abel and/or Zacharias.
That principle may still be applied today. God has not changed and neither has Satan and his angels.
Time will tell...
John
When I started out in business, there were several business bestsellers, one being The Peter Principle. The Peter Principle states that in a hierarchy, one is promoted until they reach their level of incompetence.
In a hierarchical church structure, a competent tithe slave could be promoted to a moderately competent Elder, but then becomes an incompetent Deacon. The usual problem in business is that incompetent people are stuck in their positions, never being promoted, but not being demoted back to competency. HWA would move people all over the place.
In this age of massive defections you can go from competent tithe slave to incompetent COG leader in one move. And after that move, there's no one who can demote you.
Amen!
Hoss, what you describe applies to many ministers. They went to AC as teenagers, and were made ministers with no real life experience. As ministers, they were treated like royalty and with kids cloves. As a consequence, they live in ivory towers. In my dealings with them, I found that they were emotionally still in the school yard. They do not comprehend the adult world.
Anonymous said: Don't kid yourself. The splinter leaders know that this talk is all for show, for the dumb sheep. Just look on Facebook to see how chummy they are with each other when they think they are alone among friends. Vic Kubik wrote a nice note to Jim Meredith on Facebook on October 30, and Susan Meredith replied warmly.
I disagree. While Rod is consumed with bitterness that he isn't recognized as the one legitimate leader of the COG, Jim has none of that. While Rod teaches LCG to despise the other COGs, Jim rejects that idea. In fact, he actually coordinates feast events with other COGs. His dad is probably not pleased, but Jim doesn't care. He does the right thing. While theology is not his strength, and he retains some of his dad's misunderstandings on government and the work of God, he is an excellent leader, and I think he will be a bridge-builder. As to UCG, it is clear that they are into cooperation, not control. As evidence, witness the Church of God in Angola. UCG has entered into a cooperative effort with them to support one another, with no agenda of bringing them under the UCG umbrella. There is some hope!
LCG Expositor
From a long time COG member, who's traversed a number of COG Groups...
LCOG has a real attitude, it isn't just in Charlotte but in local church areas as well, we've seen a condescending arrogance to those of "other" groups. We've been snubbed and pushed off as second-rate people. Its like we have to bow to them.
Unfortunately, they have been victims of the unbiblical teachings of Rod Meredith, who does not trust Jesus Christ to deliver the saints as He sees fit. Instead, Rod has to engage in hate-filled propaganda to keep people from fleeing his organization. He truly believes he is the one God-ordained leader, and that he is truly doing the work of God better than anyone else, and is thus justified in spewing his hatred. Why doesn't he just keep his nose to the grindstone, do the right thing, and let God take care of the rest? Either he doesn't have faith that God will deliver the saints as God sees fit, or he does have faith that God will do just that, and everyone will leave Rod.
I have found most members in LCG treat other COG members with respect, despite what Rod tells them. so there is hope!
LCG Expositor
Anonymous said: Gods government is hierarchical?? There are dozens of mentions of this in the bible.
For instance, two of the disciples wanted to be at the top of the heap in the kingdom. Christ didn't reply be saying that hierarchy doesn't exist. Let see, 'the first shall be last and the last first,' 'the servant is not greater than the master,' Christ said that the Father is greater than He, some rule one city and some ten, etc, etc. All human societies are hierarchical.
What Jesus is really saying in Matthew 20:25-26 is: "The great exercise authority over, and you shall not exercise authority over." Yes, all human societies are hierarchical, but Jesus told His followers to be different from the rest of the world.
Yes, there will be hierarchy in the kingdom of God, when men are no longer the deeply flawed beings we are today.
LCG Expositor
Many also married their only in church option, which lays at the heart of many a church problem.
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