Friday, November 4, 2016

Which COG False Prophet Is The Biggest Liar? Pack, Thiel, Malm, Meredith, Flurry, Wienland, Cox?

Dave Pack released his timeline on how he thinks his god is going to bring about the end times.  His god still has not killed three COG leaders.

Gerald Flurry's his timeline includes capturing the Stone of Scone and digging up the Ark of the Covenant buried in Ireland so he can give it to his "jesus" when it comes back to sit on the coronation chair in Westminster Abbey.

James Malm has declared that his god is going to start whipping some zeal into the Laodicean sinners  butts in the next couple of years.

Almost Arrested Elisha Elijah Amos Joshua Bob Thiel has his god coming back anytime from 2020 and on.

Every prophecy that Rod Meredith has ever uttered has been an abject failure.

Felon Ron Weinland, his dingy second witless witness wife Laura and his money laundering children who are now prophets.  Everyone of his lies has failed since 2008.

Not to be left out of this scatological mix is false prophet Wade Cox.  His prophetic time lines are just as stupid as Dave Pack's. He writes:

"It thus becomes obvious that the Witnesses and Christ have to be here, at the very latest, from 2019 and perhaps even the year earlier in 2018 due to the treble harvest requirements in 2025.

"We know for a fact that the Bible tells us that the two Witnesses will stand in Jerusalem for 1260 days and then be killed and lie in the streets for three days and then be resurrected. We also expect the conversion of Judah and the remnant of Levi prior to Messiah’s subjugation of the planet. 

"We know that the Wars of the End have already started from the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, as we foretold in the paper. In the audio, it is clearly stated that the wars would start in 2001. The Times of the Gentiles ended in 1996. The Last Thirty Years began in 1997. This sequence was marked by eclipses. There was a total eclipse of the moon at Passover and Tabernacles in the anniversary year of 1996. Then in 1997 there was a partial eclipse of the moon at Passover and a total eclipse at Tabernacles. In 1997, there was also a total eclipse of the sun on 1 Abib or Nisan and a partial eclipse of the sun on 1 Tishri. These sequential eclipses are not coincidences. They also work to the Temple Calendar according to the conjunction and not the Hillel Calendar from the Babylonians. There is a complete time-cycle between 1997 and 2015. The cycles in this period are marked by these eclipses. This time-cycle and the following period will be the most dramatic in the history of the world. The next period is the twelve years to the Jubilee return of the nations. This is the completion of the Second Exodus of Isaiah chapter 66.

"The demons themselves, and their sun system, have placed 2012 as the last year of their system and authority, and the New Cycle commences from this date. We know that their system has to end because the coming of the Witnesses, with the senior witness Elijah, sees him Restore all Things which means, among other things, he has to restore the nexus of the Law which Satan had broken at the close of Eden at the beginning of the First Jubilee 120 Jubilees ago, in 3974 BCE.

"2012 is the Sabbath Year of this fifth cycle. In that year the Law of God had to be read again for the third time prior to execution of judgment on this system. 

"War has already started and the Beast system has to grow stronger and take over the World’s systems of Government under what they call the New World Order. This system continues now under Satan and his followers on the Earth from 2012 when the Law of God is read and explained and implemented for the Third time. The False Prophet and the Antichrist will continue to develop from now until the coming of the Messiah."

Everyone of these liars have had to reset dates time after time when their god fails to do what they claim it is going to.  The turn all of these around into "spiritual" fulfillment's, which means you can't see the things happening, but his god can.

It is written that God does nothing unless He warns the people through His servants the prophets beforehand.

We have told the sequence of the prophets for many years and we will continue to do so.

The wise virgins continue to be prepared and the Church of God warns the Nations that Christ is coming and besiegers (watchers come from a distant land (Jer. 4:15)).

The Table of the eclipses is listed below. Following that is the Ancient Temple Calendar as published by CCG and then the Hillel Calendar, which shows the problems involved and why they only have half the story. 

The Signs in the Heavens will entail more than this sequence of the eclipses and we will examine the others aspects in further detail.
The sequence of prophecy that Cox believes is just as worthless as Dave Pack's. It is guaranteed to never come to pass.  Of course it should always be brought out that God has never spoken to these boys.  All they do is look back in time to find things that fit their timeline and then claim it came to pass just as they said.  Liars all.


Byker Bob said...

This is a very strange situation in that everyone is able to recognize these things that are said as lies except their own members! Something very "special" had to happen to these people to produce that condition. You know it is very bad and very serious when over and over again, you watch these prognostications fail, and then the members turn right around and enthusiastically embrace the next round of lies as if nothing had ever happened! What's obvious is that they are invested in a powerful desire that the lies would be true.

Warning, sarcasm ahead: "How did you come to know the truth?"

I don't believe there is measurable way of determining which false prophet lies the most. It is rather a matter of whose lies do the most damage to the greatest number of people, ie who suffers and dies the most. They're all pretty rotten by whatever standards could be applied.


Anonymous said...

What do you mean by "liar"?

Each of the men you mention has made false statements about prophecy. But are those statements lies, or are they just crazy?

By most reports, Thiel is a personally honorable man. Even Flurry at the person-to-person level is not known as someone who breaks promises that he makes. Furthermore, it scares the poop out of some of Flurry's top men that from time to time when a member gets access to the Pastor General, Flurry may take the member's side and dress down the errant minister. That's something Meredith or Pack would NEVER do. They will support a minister's lies over a member's truth 100% of the time. By that measure, Little Stevie Flurry is more like Meredith and Pack than he is like his father.

Meredith, Pack and Weinland, on the other hand, are known for lying about even the most trivial matters, and for breaking promises whenever doing so is convenient.

Anonymous said...

There's nothing special about eclipses. They happen on full moons when the earth gets in the way of the sun's light. It's a totally mechanical thing competent astronomers can predict to the second. It has nothing to do with the actions of any fictitious god.

People still react superstitiously just like our ignorant ancestors did. It's high time that the human race wised up and viewed this universe for the mechanical but still often chaotic marvel that it is. There is no god sitting outside that fictional firmament running everything and dictating the future in advance. Earth will do just fine and go on placidly as long as no wandering comet or rogue orphaned planet comes careening our way. I'll put my faith in NASA if something like that comes along. We could deflect a comet if we saw it coming in time. A planet? Forget it and just live it up as long as possible. Same with a super nova anywhere nearby.

Anonymous said...

9.36 PM communism has been discredited by half of Europe, including half of Germany being given to the commies after WW2. This division required a string of miracles, including protecting Hitlers life (which he correctly discerned) in order to slow down the American-British advance. God very much dictates human history.
Gods fingerprints are all over human history.

Hoss said...

Thanks Anon 7:34 regarding the breakdown of honesty into big liars and little liars

“Lie upon lie, here a little, there a little...”

It has been a problem for me, concerned about who lies, who just exaggerates, got bad data, etc. There are obviously ministers who follow the Goebbels line, If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

But not every COGleader falls into that category. Fortunately, nothing is new, and I can often be placated with a line from Shakespeare, Seinfeld, or The Simpsons. In this case, George Costanza: It's not a lie, if you believe it.

But you could be believing (and repeating) someone else's lie, as I did for many years...

Black Ops Mikey said...

Wade Cox is 70 years old. His tenure as Coordinator General should have been terminated a year ago by the ccg charter. He should be 'retired' what ever that means.

Why is Wade Cox still making these statements?

By the very rules he set up, he should be silenced by now.

Liar? Promise breaker?

It makes no real difference for the fewer than 30 people he has world wide.

Everybody else left him in 2005 and formed the Assembly of Eloah.

Connie Schmidt said...

Thiel, Meredith, Malm, Cox, Flurry , Pack et al. -- Which one is the biggest liar?

Very hard to choose just one. Sort of like trying to pick which dictator was worse... Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Saddam . You could go by "volume" or by "quality" or a mix of both. All in all, a tough choice in both regards.

Miguel de la Rodente said...

The credibility of the original group and the current splinters is completely shot in many ways, and the field of prophecy is perhaps the most obvious example. The leaders are similar to Donald Trump in that they are incapable of restraining what comes out of their mouths, and that works to their detriment.

There is no gradual step by step build up towards credibility. I believe that in the greater Church of God movement, some people are waiting for one splinter to emerge, and to prove through something tangible that they are either blessed far and away above the others, or that their prophecies are inspired, accurate, and able to be trusted. Some leaders even dramatically claim that this is true of themselves and their group, but further analysis proves that they are both clueless and faking the appearance of the expected emergent or "true" group. A movement that has placed great importance upon one true group in fact has none, and never did.

Hoss said...

Which one is the biggest liar?

The one with the largest burn marks on his pants.

There was an old IT joke, What's the difference between a computer salesman and a used car dealer? The used car dealer knows he's a liar.

Is there a way to tell if a COGleader knows he's a liar?

Anonymous said...

10.30 AM My observation was that the truly converted members were persecuted by both the ministers and members in the old WWCG. Meaning, if a 'true' church in embryo was a appear, people would not flock to that group. This explains the absence of a true physical church.
This also means the sliver members have a love-hate relationship with their leaders.

Anonymous said...

Meredith just caught himself out in another lie. Do you remember, back when Meredith got fired from the Global Church of God, how he said it was so important that the church's TV program remain on WGN, and that the Global Board was showing a lack of faith and setting wrong priorities by suggesting that GCG get out of its financial problems by cutting the WGN airing of The World Ahead?

Move forward to 2016, and now that LCG is facing financial problems what has Meredith done? He has taken Tomorrow's World off WGN! He still has millions of dollars going to his sons' Internet projects and to the watered-down Living University.

Has Meredith become the very same compromised and watered-down person he accused the Global Board members of being? Gerald Flurry still has his Key of David program on WGN and many other TV stations. Why did Meredith take LCG off WGN instead of cutting so many other questionable expenses?

Fortunately, Meredith's hypocrisy and lack of faith will take care of itself. Where did LCG get most of its co-workers? From television, especially the big stations like WGN. As LCG cuts back on television because it doesn't have enough money, it will find that less money comes in and will need to cut back even more, and LCG will quickly go into a death-spiral.

Byker Bob said...

I remember years ago, being told the following anecdote by our American History teacher in high school.

Reporters had caught President Calvin Coolidge exiting church services one Sunday morning. "Mr. President, what was the sermon about this morning?"

Coolidge: "Sin!"

Reporter: "But, Mr. President, what did the pastor have to say about sin?"

Coolidge: "He said he was against it!"

If this anecdote illustrates the state of mainstream Christianity at that point in history, at least there was some honesty about it. Imagine if the presidents of times past had been believers in the false prophecies of the Armstrong movement! Bad, bad mistakes would have been made, with grave implications for our nation. It is fortunate that there are relatively few taken in by Armstrongism.


Steve D said...

Miguel de la Rodente said..."the appearance of the expected emergent or true" group," suggest that the church is the single correct organization. I think it is not an organization but an organism, the body of Christ. We shouldn't be looking for one single group that God is working through. The church is not a particular tax exempt organization incorporated here or there. It is made up of all believers wherever they may worship. HWA had it wrong (surprise). He also had the ranking of ministers wrong (in my opinion) with a vertical structure with Apostle on top. These titles weren't rankings, but roles they played. It is a horizontal structure with apostles going out first, then evangelists will follow to preach, then when there are believers, they send a pastor/teacher. No one "minister" is above another in rank, they just perform different functions. But, of course, without the vertical ranking, how could he "lord over" the other people?

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:52AM, remember that Global never actually went off of WGN until Meredith bankrupted the organization by leaving with half of its membership. That was just Meredith's paranoia, because he had told the other Global Board members that going off WGN would be taking a completely different approach to doing the Work"

Back then, in his emergency letter to GCG brethren, Meredith said that going off WGN would "destroy the Work of God as we have known it"

Was Meredith right when he wrote that? Or is he now admitting (will he openly admit?) that the Global Board was in the right all along?

Ten years ago, LCG had the best Church of God half-hour program by far. The program got hundreds of thousands of responses every year, bringing in new members and large donations. Something changed, though, sometime between the Brookfield murder-suicide and the start of Living University, sending the organization off into a new direction, as if LCG wanted to be the new Laodicea instead of the Philadelphia remnant. They started spending more and accomplishing less.

Now that LCG is cutting way back on TV, it's only a matter of time before COGWA takes on the mantle of the true Philadelphia remnant, for those who still think in those terms.

Anonymous said...

Steve D even without vertical ranking, ministers would still lord it over members by means of verbal bashings, and verbally tearing members down.
Gods 'solution' has been one of letting the church splinter, creating competition between the splinters. It hasn't stopped abuse, but has alleviated it.

Anonymous said...

8.13. But isn't 'cutting back' what you would expect from a church where the average age is 74 and increasing?
The grandpa Simpson church is falling asleep, hardly surprising.

LCG Expositor said...

Far be it from me to defend Rod Meredith, but it is not Rod that has changed since 1998, it is the media world. Television is a much less cost-effective way to reach people now than it was in 1998, so LCG is adjusting their spending accordingly. UCG came to the same conclusion, and a couple years ago abandoned their plans to expand their TV studio.

Anonymous said...

Television is a much less cost-effective way to reach people now than it was in 1998, so LCG is adjusting their spending accordingly.

Is that why LCG's media responses and co-worker income have gone down? If they shifted their spending to meet new media trends, wouldn't you expect cost-effectiveness to increase and the number of donations and new contacts to increase?

The truth may be that they are selling a product that nobody wants to buy, and that they will fail whether they are on TV, the Internet, Readers Digest ads, and so on. However, there's something else at work as well. Just look at the Bob Thiel-level delivery of these new short programs LCG is using to recruit new members instead of the old half-hour program:

Suffering in 2016, the New Norm?

Can We Choose a Better History?

If this is LCG's idea of "adjusting their spending accordingly" to meet the realities of the new media world, it is no wonder they are failing.

Anonymous said...

6.02PM good point, but there are still many televangelists programs every Sunday morning. So my question is, to what degree is television 'less cost effective?' And wasn't that the reason given for Plain Truth magazine numbers plunging, after Joe T took over the church.

nck said...

Official doctrine was that tv was not and never was a means to recruit new members.
It was a tool to deliver a "witness."

It's effectiveness is measured in GRP.
Today's media can be measured in CPC.


Anonymous said...


Can you please explain GRP and CPC more, as they relate to the WCG?
I didn't understand how/what those applications to the WCG were. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Hmmmm so hard to pick the BIGGEST liar among them....

In my view Rod Meredith wins.

They others may have failed prophecies or lies of omission or ignorance but Rod Meredith lies intentionally and repeatedly to serve himself.

You can go back decades and see that he has always been a liar. There are dozens of recorded incidents.

Some times his lies are contrived. Some times he lies off the cuff. Some times he tells the lie enough that he actually starts to believe it's true.

Meredith gets the crown for biggest liar hands down. And yet LCGers push their heads further into the sand and deny it. Mind boggling.

Anonymous said...

Anon 4:28PM wrote regarding Rod Meredith:

You can go back decades and see that he has always been a liar. There are dozens of recorded incidents.

Christians aren't perfect, but they grow in Godly character and repent of their sins.

Rod Meredith, on the other hand, hasn't committed a major sin since baptism, by his own testimony. By others' testimony, people who knew him in the 1960s and still know him today all say: He hasn't changed. Dibar Apartian said this to his close friends shortly before he died.

Does it make sense that a Christian would have the Holy Spirit for 60 years and not become even just a little bit less of a liar? The most straightforward explanation is that Rod Meredith doesn't have the Holy Spirit.

Anonymous said...

12.34PM There have been many occasions when I couldn't understand ncks comment. It has to do with his style of writing, or perhaps something deeper. I've just given up?

Byker Bob said...

The problem with acronyms is that unless they are the common ones with which everyone is familiar, the entire meaning of someone's carefully crafted post can be lost.
We've literally had people ask, as an example, what an "ACOG" is. Without knowing that, one could miss the entire meaning for this blog! It's always good form when introducing new acronyms to at least spell out the long version the first time it is used.

As for GRP, is that "Go rape and pillage"? Gross revenue product? Gorpy, repulsive person? Gamma ray penetration? Gas replicating procedure? I mean, to the unfamiliar, although it could be insider jargon in some specific industry, it largely leaves one guessing. I'm sure we all have better intentions for our posts than to render them meaningless or frustrating.


Anonymous said...

He's the Donald Trump of the COG scene. Best at everything. Wiser than the wisest.

Allen C. Dexter

Anonymous said...

BB I suspect autism in the case of nck. A reminder that the Christian response to any such condition is compassion.