Thursday, January 19, 2017

Breaking: Victor Kubik Heading To Minneapolis For Damage Control?

Comment today:

Silenced said...
Allwine's most recent sermons were from October on the subjects of "Don't just show up to church" and "The sin of allowing sin" -- both are absent from UCG's website, along with all other info about him.

This was someone who was intending to just melt back into his COG life after murdering his wife, and raising his child as if nothing ever happened while accepting everyone's condolences and sympathies.

A common refrain from COG members who knew the Allwines today, which I have heard from a handful of different people: who else among us is a murderer?

This shatters trust and the bubble has been breached. There's a lot of healing that needs to take place, for both the Allwine family and their church brethren who are in crisis this morning.

I'm eager to see how Victor Kubik, who has landed in Minneapolis, is going to handle this. They've wasted no time jumping on the grenade as news spreads.

I would hope that UCG jumping the gun on this so fast is help the family and church members in the area.  But given how Rod Meredith, Ames and others descended on Milwaukee after the LCG murders and what they did and said, we may be hard pressed to see any real truth and accountablity come out of this.  This is a high priority now for UCG as the news is spreading like wildfire.


Silenced said...

To be clear, Kubik isn't in Minneapolis right now. From what I've been told, my source in the COG was wrong about that one. But it's likely he's on his way though. He has historic ties to the area and used to pastor there. It's likely only a matter of time before he visits, like he did when news of Amy's death for emerged. I'll keep the ear to the ground.

Someone in the Home Office tells me though this is priority #1 in Cinci.

The Painful Truth said...

Vic needs to hop back on the plane and go home. The cat is out of the bag and he ain't going to be able to hide this nasty little scandal from the public eye.

Unknown said...

In all fairness to UCG, they are kind of in a "Catch 22" and a no win situation here.

If they left the sermons up, then the scuttlebutt would be that they are leaving a murderer's sermons up for all to see and hear, or how incompetent and uncaring they are in leaving them up. Take them down, and it is then a "coverup".

If Kubik goes to Minnesota, then it is "damage control". If he does not go, then its "unsympathetic" or non-caring.

There has been damage, and it is terrible. The people there and throughout the region are probably in deep shock and the whole organization from top to bottom across the world are stunned as well. Apparently, the whole family was known very well by the COGWA folks too.

My sincere hope and desire that all of those who have been touched by this event, whether it be Vic Kubik or all of the people throughout the UCG, process the disillusionment and betrayal of this event, and that they find some comfort and consolation at this very tragic time. I cannot imagine how difficult it must be to be in a leadership position such that Kubik is in and having to face such a complicated, hideous and painful set of circumstances. I hope he can find the maturity and leadership to speak wisdom , comfort and hope with such chaotic and tumultuous developments extant there.

Anonymous said...

As an LCG member, I can affirm that there is a lot of play-acting going on among ministers and members alike. People understand the face they need to put on to be accepted in church, but in private many are just as worldly, sometimes far more worldly, than the typical non-member. I would not be surprised if LCG has its "death in suspicious circumstances" before too long.

Terry Ratzmann had issues that burst out into murder. So, apparently, did Stephen Allwine. Yet we ought to remember what the Bible tells us in 1 John 3:15, "Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." By that standard, LCG HQ has several murderers on staff, including at least a couple of serial killers.

We know that when tragedies like this happen in a community, there is an increased risk of "copycat" crimes. We should all rise above our doctrinal disagreements and join together to pray that no other families in UCG, COGWA, LCG, PCG or any other ACOG will be torn apart by a murderous elder who for whatever reason has snapped. Moreover, we should recognize that tolerance of murder will only beget more murder. As long as LCG is torn by hatred, from the top down, it will be at risk of another Ratzmann/Allwine event. Let us pray together that LCG purge from itself those individuals who spread hatred and division in order to gain and hold power over converted Christians.

Byker Bob said...

First of all, to clarify my position, I believe that in order to be of best service to God and man, all of the ACOG splinters should disband, and all persons involved in them should repent of their Armstrongism.

However, in his current position, Victor Kubik does not have the right to remain silent, or to hide from this. Proper protocol and accepted decorum demand that he make some sort of statement, since this tragedy involves an official in his organization, and therefore the organization itself. Whatever he says, there will be criticism. His best hope is to not shoot himself in the foot as he becomes the voice for his Armstrong franchise.

Honestly? How much pastoral crime is actually successfully concealed? Death is generally resistant to concealment. Sex crimes, lies, and fiduciary improprieties are relatively easy to conceal. If you are in an ACOG splinter, your minister could be giving some of the most inspiring sermons you have ever heard, while living a dual lifestyle that you have no clue exists.

Caveat Emptor

Retired Prof said...

This seems quite unlike the Ratzman case, in which (apparently) Terry Ratzman was motivated by rage and/or despair over doctrinal matters he believed impacted him.

Here, if allegations are correct, it appears that Stephen Carl Allwine hatched his conspiracy out of his own personal failings. Nothing indicates they have anything to do with his role in the church or its influence on his behavior. I don't believe the event is a black mark against UCG, only against the individual who gave in to temptation and sank into depravity.

Anonymous said...

These slivers, just like Herbie reject the trunk of the moral tree. That being that everyone has a right to life. This is rejected, since members are expected to be slaves to the losers (called the 'give way') in the church. Another example of this is Rod railing against people going to the gym. How dare people go to the gym rather than serving the irresponsible hand and foot.
Rejecting the trunk of the moral tree means that murder is more likely in the church. After all, members are already being robbed of their lives with the 'give way.'

Anonymous said...

Retired Prof, wouldn't you say the ACOG doctrine against divorce was a motivator in Allwine's actions?

Anonymous said...

PS About a year ago, I read in one of UCGs monthly publications, that the trunk of the tree are the doctrines of the church. This is theologically incorrect. Morality is not a end in itself, but rather a means to an end. The end being life itself. This issue arose when Christ was criticized for healing on the Sabbath. As Christ pointed out, the purpose of the Sabbath (and morality in general) was the preservation of life and achievement of success ('save life and do good').
Having fundamentals wrong for 'Gods true church' is surreal.

Retired Prof said...

Anon Jan. 19, 6:51 PM asks if "the ACOG doctrine against divorce was a motivator."

Could be. I hadn't thought about that, maybe because spousal murders come along sporadically, and news reports seldom or never include information about whether or not the couple practice a religion that forbids them to dissolve the marriage. It would be interesting to compare domestic homicide statistics between groups where divorce is permitted and those where it is not.

Not interesting enough for me to embark on the needed research. Good thought-provoking question, though.

R.L. said...

He'd already planned a trip to Oklahoma City this weekend - invited to speak at a "Spokesman Club Ladies Night."

I've been wondering for weeks what might be the real reason behind that trip. Surely it's nothing along the lines of what broke this week.