Friday, December 7, 2018

I Wanted It All To Be True...



As a child, and I recall my childhood experiences with the Memorial Orthodox Presbyterian Church, I wanted it all to be true.  As one of the Three Wise Men in the Christmas Play, I so wanted this story to be true.  Choirs of singing Angels out and about praising God in the Highest to a few lone shepherds seemed pretty amazing.  I did wonder why they didn't perform for the whole town but was told not to ask questions like that again.  I couldn't figure out how a virgin could give  birth and stay a virgin or how God could be the father with out...well you know. But later on learned that Mary was really with child by the Holy Spirit, so that must be God's power that did it. Then someone said the Holy Spirt was the Third Person in the Trinity of the One True God but three.  Huh?  That sounded ever much more kinky I stopped asking questions.  But it was all a grand mystery and who cared. I wanted it all to be true.

I wanted it all to be true when I came into the WCG circle at age 14.  No one ever talked about prophecy and it was the crazy 60's so not only did I want it to be true, but it actually seemed true. No one talked about any Jesus coming again "soon" or that "time was short" and "behold I come quickly" in the Presbyterian Church.   I wanted that to be true for lots of reasons.  Remember, it was the 60's.  But that was not true either.  It's still not true and I suspect never will be. (I know John...Time will tell)

I would like to believe that I would see my parents again, or my sister recently killed in an auto accident or my boys mom when that time comes, but I have my doubts.  I would prefer not to have to share Heaven or the Kingdom with many of the ministers I worked hard to avoid in life.

God can heal you?  Now THAT's something I really wanted to be true for my brother who had spent my entire youth and his entire life up to that point  living in a New York State Hospital .  I had seen way too much as a kid going every Sunday after church, from age 5 to 18, to pick him up from the Hospital and take him out to the park for picnics or ice cream at Margos in Newark, NY.  I recall kids with handicaps of all descriptions trying to get me take them home with me or just give them a hug. Overload on a small kid but I think it programed me for saving the world when I had the first chance.

When I leaned about James 5:14 , a scripture which never came up as a Presbyterian (I think they learned the folly of it 1500 years earlier than I did), I knew my brother just had to wait until someone could anoint him and the prayer of faith would heal him.  I was ordained a Local Elder at age 23 and the first thing I did when I got home from the Feast was to anoint my brother so he could see, hear and speak again.  Alas...he gave me the "what the hell are you doing" look, I chuckled and he's still blind, deaf and unable to speak 45 years later. I had about the same results with life threatening diseases among members in my ministry. I wanted it to be true. I do say that those with colds and flu were healed after I anointed them.  Usually within seven to ten days.

I wanted everything WCG taught to be true. I wanted there to be a Kingdom and 3 resurrections so everyone had a fair chance.  The Second Resurrection was THE answer to the question I always asked in Catechism Class and for which the Westminster Confession of Faith, which I had to memorize, had no answer.  "What happens to those who never hear about Jesus."  The Presbyterian minister told me that they all go to heaven so not to worry of it.  Huh?  I asked then why bother trying to convert them?  Leave them alone and they make it anyway!  I was asked to leave the class on several occasions. Mom never knew because I dawdled on the way home so as not to get home early and be asked why did I get home early?  He couldn't tell me where dinosaurs fit in the scheme of things either.

I didn't want the requirement to tithe to be true but I wanted the "Prove me now hear with" and the "windows of heaven " thing to be true.  Buzzzzzz...thanks for playing.  Not true either. But I wanted it to be true.

I realized along the way that in order for everything to be true, I had to have a faith based view of things.  But I don't anymore.  I have an evidence based view of things and so all the many things I was taught, first as member, and then taught myself as minister, over time simply slipped into the not actually true category.  I have probably heard 15,000 sermons in my life and given 5000 or so myself.  I wanted it to be true in the hearing and the giving.

Once one learns the actual origins, authorship, politic and history of scripture, you really can't go back.

Wanting something to be true, for me, was more comforting even if I suspected it not to actually be true, or at best unprovable.  But that only lasted so long. Now, being evidence based and a lover of geology, cosmology, paleontology and human origins, I find it all wanting bigly. That's not a fault. I don't mind lacking faith because I can't go with faith being the substance of what we hope is true based on no actual evidence that it is true.  (Heb 11:1)

If you can't show it, you don't know it.  That just rings true.

The bottom line is that I wanted the Bible to be true from my youth until about my mid 40's. But careful study, asking good questions that had accumulated over the years of soaking in the Bible and theology and realizing that what I had hoped was true was not actually true  had demanded my attention. I remember when the switch finally flipped in my mind.

I did not take a genius to see that HWA and company viewed their opinions as truth. But they had tendencies to change their truths along the way and in some cases change back. What kind of truth is that?  Then along come the Tkaches who got all starry eyed over the very theology I had grown up with and found to be wanting by age 14.  I told Joe Jr that he was reinventing the wheel and when Ron Kelly tried to tell me that there was no retirement because they had no money due to the great miracle Christ had worked in the church (he may have said Jesus) , I figured that WCG and now this new Jesus  was a trickster and was finished with it all. At least the Jesus of my youth didn't trick us like that!  I figured if the Tkaches can flip the entire church on it's back and call it truth, then I can go seek out the answers to my own questions without anymore help from the "experts", which neither HWA nor the Tkaches were or are. There are real experts out there. They actually do the hard work of being experts. They don't sit in their easy chairs and think shit up like the WCG Split, Splinter and Sliver gurus do.  Dave Pack is the poster child for thinking up theological shit.  Flurry is very good at it too as is Thiel, Malm, Weinland and ALL the rest.

If it helps, I do get teary at a good Presbyterian Hymn or Christmas sentiment though I know no Jesus was actually born at Christmas and you all should know that too. I can't say I get teary over old WCG hymns. "Death shall them seize and to the tomb ALIVE they shall go down" just doesn't and never did do it for me. "Praise ye the Lordo" was ok but none of them stayed in my head emotionally. The old Presbyterian hymns are a different story.  "How Great Thou Art" comes to mind as does "The Holy City"  Go figure....

I wanted it all to be true...


25 comments:

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Allen Dexter said...

We all wanted it to be true. Then, came the day of the realization that none of it was true. It took a bit of time for that to sink in. Quite a trip it was.

DennisCDiehl said...

I agree! Merry Solstice when the Sun is born and begins its journey to the Spring Equinox (Easter) taking away the darkness of the world, or at least the northern hemisphere winter. :)

TLA said...

While I am not ready to celebrate Christmas because it is not in the Bible, there are several people who debunk the COG theory of when Jesus was born.

http://jesus-reasonforseason.com/myth_pagan_holiday/christmas_based_upon_pagan_holidays.php
http://jesus-reasonforseason.com/pc_myths/average_december_temperature_in_Bethlehem.php
http://spofga.org/ten_commandments/2012/another_false_myth_about_Christmas.php
http://www.bibleserralta.com/JesusbornDecember.html


What is the temperature in Jerusalem in December?

Guide to Jerusalem weather in December. The average maximum daytime temperature in Jerusalem in December is a comfortable 15°C (59°F). The average night-time temperature is usually a cold 6°C (43°F).

Plus:
The Jewish calendar has only 51 weeks in a year. Each of the 24 courses therefore served twice a year, plus 3 weeks they all served, for a total of 5 weeks during the year. Every 2 or 3 years, there is a leap year which adds a leap month. It was not certain how the priests served these extra days.

The courses were one week long not two - though some will dispute that.
With one week courses, Jesus birth would calculate to be either around June or December.

The Bible did not record the actual time period.
Plus today Christmas is primarily a secular holiday.

Anonymous said...

Okay, I don't know if this fits, but it was very emotional for me today. Went to Walmart to pick up my computer glasses a couple of hours before sunset, and visited Wendy's to get a quick bite. A homeless vet came in that had a problem with his left leg and a cart with all of his stuff (Vietnam his signs said). He looked cold, and in Ohio it IS cold. I was almost finished with lunch and a father with a toddler went over and contributed something to him. I got all the money out of my wallet (which wasn't much - 6.00) and gave it to him and thanked him for his service and wished him good luck. I was almost crying and this affected me to the core of my heart. Not sure if this has anything to do with the posts here, but just thought I would share. Hope you all have a beautiful night.

Anonymous said...

I bet dollars to donuts that Christmas is more holy than the Jewish festivals.

Anonymous said...

Do the Seventh Day Baptists & Church Of God (Seventh Day) celebrate x-mas?

What About The Truth said...

Mr. Diehl, I recall reading similar veined articles about this topic from you before. With the frailty of life at the forefront of your recent days, it is understandable.

As a young man with an athletic background and no religious upbringing I entered the WCG and the concept of living by faith not only baffled me, but it seemed as if it was an unreachable state of existence. For my whole life, the achievement of a successful outcome was predicated solely upon hand and eye and legs coordination.

It wasn't long in my start of religion when I needed to call the local Elder for anointing. My health problem not only wasn't healed, it got worse ... and worse .... and worse. It had to be my lack of faith.

As the church years rolled on, living faith never grew within me. There was no 10 nation European juggernaut ready to take the whole world. Mr. Armstrong said the war in heaven had happened and prophetic events on earth would soon escalate. Nothing happened.

As the busyness of church continued on, I witnessed as a rider in a Spokesman Club carpool a car cross the center line of the road and just as it was about to hit us broadside it disappeared and then reappeared on the other side of us. I couldn't make any sense of what happened in my mind. The next year I sundered up to the end of line of a Potluck Saturday and immediately noticed there wasn't enough food to feed all the people. I looked at the Local Elder in front of me and he was silently praying. As we got closer to the buffet table the food just wasn't disappearing. When I sat down to eat and watched as some were now up for seconds or thirds there was still plenty of food. What I and the Elder witnessed defied reason. A few years later I became seriously ill. The doctor said I needed a major operation for an incurable disease that if successful I would still have a lifetime of complications. I eschewed the operation and went home and shortly thereafter had a massive internal hemorrhage. I lost so much blood that I was too weak to make a voice into the telephone to call anyone and really too weak to care. I woke up the next morning hungry and made myself breakfast. A few years later, financially strapped in my "Third Tithe" year, I had to sell something. I picked two twin items that I had and priced them to sell. The best offer that I got was half of my already reasonable asking price. I then received a call from someone in another state 3 hours away. He came and asked me if I would take what was TWICE my asking price? That was hard to accept let alone comprehend. Lastly and most importantly - though I can't give all the details for it will expose my identity, I and a neighbor witnessed the creation of life - a living breathing "entity" out of nowhere that to this day my shocked stammering neighbor says couldn't and didn't but did happen.

I didn't ask for any of these unexplained events to happen in my life but they happened nonetheless. Hebrews 11:1 is faith of hoped for FUTURE events by all those biblical figures named in the chapter who already had interacted with God, the Lord or an Angel. They had already experienced a power not confined to the physical laws of this earth. Their faith, my faith and many others have not some silly blind unsubstantial faith in nothing, it is an EASY assurance that God is able to fulfill all the promises including Luke 21:32 when "that generation" having been resurrected will not pass till all will be fulfilled.

Mr. Diehl, get out and take another one of your long dwaddling walks and take note that you control every step of that walk. What you, I or anyone else doesn't control in this fragile life is what happens in the end whatever that may be.




Anonymous said...

Dennis, would you be willing to engage in a formal debate with a Christian?

Byker Bob said...

Good job, 6:14! You know what scripture says! You may have helped an angel. You were a good Samaritan, and did a very good thing.

Seriously, we don't know what some of the street peoples' lives have been like, or what their stories are. It takes a lot of bad events in sequence to reduce a person to homelessness. Once there, it is extremely difficult for them to dig their way out. Minor health problems can turn into terminal situations, there are fights, the police to worry about, and constant insults from passers by about laziness. Sometimes, just having a place to bathe, and a place for potential employers to reach them can make all the difference in the world. Some have lived in their cars up until the car is towed to impound for parking violations, where it builds up fees that a homeless person cannot possibly raise. There are families living in the streets. "God's" ministers used to forbid us to help, complaining that the homeless would use our money for booze, or worse. But, sometimes a bottle of wine helps combat the bitter cold.

I strongly believe in Karma. I believe that when we help people, we build up good will, so that whenever we ourselves need help, it's going to be there for us. There are street ministries in many communities, created to help the homeless, and to get them back on their feet. Here in the desert, where the temperatures in the summer are 110 and upward, there are organizations where volunteers ride around on bicycles giving homeless people clean drinking water. There is always hope so long as these folks can be kept alive long enough to transition back into mainstream. I learned a lot from my experiences with one of my sons whom I visited in jail and halfway houses during a difficult patch of his life, and during which time I met a variety of down and out people and became familiar with their lives and problems. Some of them had to relearn which way was up, and others never had a natural sense of this because they had delinquent parents

I have a problem with a church that would teach members to be calloused towards any fellow human beings, whether those human beings be outsiders to their groups, or members of other ethnic groups, or people who are down and out. When you teach people to be calloused towards one type of person, you are unwitttingly teaching them to be calloused towards all.

Thanks for sharing. I hope your example causes other readers to reexamine some of the unChristlike attitudes we were taught in Armstrongism.

BB

nck said...

Just continue to preach Christ and IF necessary, use words.

Nck

TLA said...

I do read time to time of miracles that happen to people who are not associated with COGs - it seems to me that God does intervene from time to time - and we are not required to be in a specific religious group.
One of the group Alabama's best loved songs is "Angels among us" which is about just this.
I have personally had some unexplainable non-accidents.

DennisCDiehl said...

Anonymous said...
Dennis, would you be willing to engage in a formal debate with a Christian?

More of a chat about it all works. Debates have their place and I have offered at least three times to "debate" but perhaps have more of a theological chat with Dave Pack. Of course he's not interested.

I did debate Art Mokarrow a few years back in Tyler in front of the Church. I had few in the audience that weren't for Art coming out ahead but it seems that he did not and they asked him to return a couple weeks later to answer the questions he did not answer well or at all.
Here is a link to the transcript.

http://www.thejournal.org/issues/issue139/former-wcg-pastors-debate-about-nature-of-the-bible.html

I have evolved a bit since then in the need to convince. I don't have that need anymore. I don't write and note what I do to convince but rather to assure the few that understand what I am saying that they are not alone.

Anonymous said...

I've witnessed a debate between a Pentecostal Christian pastor & two atheists. The atheists use a lot of profanity and the 2 atheists threatened bodily harm and it was completely unprovoked by the Pentecostal pastor. I was empressed by the calm demeanor of the pastor. I'm actually agnostic and only attended the debate because my sister teaches Sunday school at her church. But if the atheists were trying to convince anybody of anything it was that they were a couple of assholes.

DennisCDiehl said...

What About the Truth noted: "As the busyness of church continued on, I witnessed as a rider in a Spokesman Club carpool a car cross the center line of the road and just as it was about to hit us broadside it disappeared and then reappeared on the other side of us. I couldn't make any sense of what happened in my mind."

I had an identical experience coming through Cumberland Gap in Kentucky with my family after a YOU Basketball night. Out of nowhere I was headlight to headlight with a car. So close I could see the pattern in the headlight glass. I now know my final words in a pinch.."Oh shit" lol. I had just enough time to think "It's finally happened after all these years of driving" Then....nothing. We were sitting in the car up against a rock wall with no damage and no other car in sight. All I got out of that was puzzled. I lost my wallet getting out of the car and a year later when driving near the Gap I happened to hear a radio announcer say "If anyone knows a Dennis Diehl we have his wallet" lol. What! I went and picked it up . All but the 30 bucks in it.

I interpreted it now in hindsight to be a save so I could go on to a nice therapeutic massage practice along the Willamette. :) God is good.

Anonymous said...

DD writes "Now, being evidence based and a lover of geology, cosmology, paleontology and human origins, I find it all wanting bigly."

I appreciate these same fields of science and I am a Christian. There is a subjective difference here.

Unknown said...

ANON at 7:47 asked "Do the Seventh Day Baptists & Church Of God (Seventh Day) celebrate x-mas?"

Seventh Day Baptists and most (but not all) SDA's celebrate Xmas.

COG 7th Day does not recognize Xmas, nor other Catholic or Pagan originated holidays.

Dennis said...

NEO
I also have issues with bible origins, authorship and content as well as the ever evolving Jesus and historicity

TLA said...

Dennis - my biggest origin question right now is DNA and the Bible account prior to Abraham. It looks to me right now that we have a creation story not the creation history.
There is a Jew and Arab DNA linkage of paternal ancestors for most of them, which gives me some confidence in Abraham being the ancestor as stated in the Bible.
Science is continually finding out more and sometimes debunking their old discoveries. It could take a while before everything is completely settled.
We may need to add a couple of more gap theories to the one the COGs commonly accept between original Earth creation and the creation of Adam.

Byker Bob said...

The manuscripts which compose the Old Testament were revised several times throughout early history, TLA. Clues regarding these revisions are still embedded in the Bible which we have today. Scholars have deduced such things as the Y (Yahweh) document and the E (Elohim) document, which were some of Moses’ original source materials. Ezra the scribe presided over some of the revisions during and shortly after the Babylonian captivity, and there were revisions during the time of the Hasmonean kings (intertestamental period). There are even books which were lost to antiquity that we know about because they are mentioned or quoted by persons in the Bible.

The Septuagint was the Bible used by Jesus and the disciples, and because so many today think in terms of the King James, some people have accused Jesus of misquoting the Old Testament, when in fact, He was quoting the Septuagint.

There are many things of which we were kept ignorant while we were Armstrongites, and I’m not even saying that that was always done in maliciousness. Our teachers simply were not grounded to the degree which they professed. Their ignorance, sadly, did not prevent them from speaking authoritatively on every subject discussed. They were always “cock-sure” about everything they said.

BB

TLA said...

Scholars debate their theories - in the COGs debating "established truth" is a sin - especially by the despised members.

nck said...

I regret to inform you that since 16.30 pm local time our brother Ephraim is just one step closer to suicide as women rule over him. Ephraim had been a COG member until the Synod of Whitby. I thought I'd let you know since as of late he has been afflicted with delusions of a glorious past and residing in splendid isolation. The markets respond in island reversals.

nck

Personal Account said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nck said...

7:31

I posted that at the moment PM May withdrew the vote for the Brexit deal. Ex COG WITH a sense of humor would have sensed that (and the ones with intelligence that I opined on british suicidal course)

Of course a trait of psycopaths is the absence of a sense of humor and a disability to reflect. Not pointing at anyone. LOL

Nck

nck said...

ALSO 7:31

Anyone with real sense for the scope of things would by my referral to the Synod of Whitby be engaged in a thorough study far beyond the offerings of Wikipedia about the similarities between the beliefs of the Celtic Church and COGism.

Your insulting ways show you to be nothing like the picture in your monniker. That person would have known.

nck