Sunday, November 13, 2011

COGWA: Kubik Needs To Apologize For His "Ugly, Filthy Lie..."



The UCG/COGWA battle is gearing up again.  Charges of slander against Kubik are being leveled.  Once more we get to see the finest of the "true" church engaging in what seems to come naturally to so many in the hierarchy of the COG.  Thanks for showing the world once again what TRUE Christian love is all about (at least in Armstrongism.)


Open letter from Tine Banda 

The question of how much time one should invest in countering slander is of course a personal one, a question that I have been wrestling with for months. The return on such an investment is usually low, and if one values their autonomy, the residual risks can be high. But in light of the fact that both my family and I are now inundated with genuine queries (interestingly from some in UCG), and also in view of the fact that on multiple occasions I have been solicited and encouraged to give my personal comment on the matter (more vigorously so when I travelled out of jurisdiction to attend the Feast of Tabernacles), I did make the decision a couple of weeks ago to address a few core issues. Even then, it did take me a while to finally put pen to paper, because quite frankly, I do not labor under a sense of urgency when it comes to countering propaganda.

While I realize that for the most part this effort may well turn out to an academic exercise with little practical benefit (whether for myself, or for my readers), to the extent that what I am about to say will help some people (however few) better understand the issues, I am convinced that the benefits outweigh the hassle, perhaps only marginally.

My statement is a tribute to all of you (regardless of affiliation), that have displayed exceptional maturity in seeking first to understand the full scope of the issues at play, before presiding as a self-appointed judge, jury and executor in a matter that you do not, and cannot, fully understand. The world, both the present and the next, needs you.

But on to the issue at hand: On October 7th 2011 a dramatic prayer request was widely disseminated, and those who have come to know both myself and my family over the years immediately knew that something was amiss. The gist of the request was essentially that brethren worldwide were to “pray for Zambian brethren in need of protection from cattle rustlers” [paraphrased]. While many were, and still are, stunned by the severity of the allegations that were dispatched far afield in such dramatic fashion, I personally was not.

The same allegation made its debut as early as May 24th 2011, this time on Oath, in an Affidavit that formed the core pleading of the law suit (for church assets) mounted against Mr. Banda by Victor Kubik. So for my family and I (and the rest of the brethren in Zambia), it was simply a matter of here we go again. That aspect of the court case was of course found to be lacking in merit. But as I have noted to several individuals over the past few months, the court of public opinion, similar to a kangaroo court, does not follow the procedural rules of evidence. And as such, a case can be built, tried, and won entirely on hearsay evidence.

But I digress. To get back to the prayer request in question, if at all anything surprised me about that request, it was the issue of timing, not of content. Court pleadings in Zambia are a matter of public record and as such, this accusation has been in the public domain for a term of months. That being the case, the question ripe for posture is this: If cattle rustling had been occurring as early as May, why did the situation only become of sufficient urgency to warrant an “urgent” Prayer Request in October?

In his open letter of October 7, Mr. Banda lamented the fact that these accusations had been spread abroad before the persons besmirched could be approached in private as per the biblical mandate. In response to the open letter, Mr. Kubik then went ahead and published a letter he had written to Mr. Banda on September 30, and also published Mr. Banda’s subsequent response on even date, presumably to demonstrate that contrary to Mr. Banda’s assertions, he (Mr. Kubik) had so approached Mr. Banda.

Let’s be clear, these allegations had been in the public domain for months. The prayer request of October 05 was merely the latest installment of slander. Indeed, prior to Mr. Kubik’s letter of September 30, an elder from the United States had already alerted Mr. Banda via email and phone of the allegations Mr. Kubik was making. It is therefore preposterous to claim that the letter of September 30 qualified as a private confrontation when the defamatory allegations had already gone far afield. Moreover, Mr. Banda had already made substantive responses to those allegations both in and out of court. It would be superfluous and redundant for him to replicate a defense to Mr. Kubik, the very person who had dragged him to court just a few months earlier. Further, the tone of the September 30 letter (with official signature) was hardly conciliatory or fact-finding. It very much carried a “do what I ask/or else” tone. It did not merit a response, and I was surprised that Mr. Banda even offered one.

The “or else” part of the letter of course had no bite. It would take much more than that to intimidate a man who had just recently emerged from a grueling court battle. And having so emerged, Mr. Banda was in no mood to entertain threats.

I also wish to earnestly lay to rest the false allegation that Mr. Banda rebuffed peaceful reconciliation. Let us be absolutely clear, Mr. Banda resigned from the ministry of UCG-aia in January, and that very month, received a threatening letter from a lawyer acting on the instructions of Mr. Kubik. Legal instructions and threats had already been issued as far back as January without a single attempt at “peaceful resolution”, and in a letter to Mr. Banda in February, Mr. Kubik’s lawyer informed Mr. Banda that he had instructions from Victor Kubik to issue court process against him.

It was only in April that Mrs. Kubik emailed both Mr. Banda and me, expressing a desire to talk. Mr. Banda immediately responded to Mrs. Kubik expressing a desire to speak to Mr. Kubik directly AND requesting that Mr. Kubik do the biblical thing and drop the legal charges he had initiated against him as a brother. Mr. Kubik then contacted Mr. Banda expressing his willingness to talk, but he curiously did not address the issue of the law suit he was initiating.

Mr. Banda then sent Mr. Kubik the email I copy below, reminding him to address the issue of the law suit. Could Mr. Banda’s email even remotely be classified a rebuff? Or does this sound like a man genuinely interested in reconciliation premised on an adherence to scripture?
From: Kambani Banda
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:35 PM
To: ‘victor kubik.
Cc: ‘bev kubik
Subject: RE: I will be glad to meet with you

Good evening sir
Thank you very much for letter. I really was looking forward to hearing from you for a long time.

I deeply appreciate your willingness to meet with me but I want to quote from the letter I sent to Mrs. Kubik.

If Mr. Kubik genuinely wants us to reconcile, then I request that he does what God’s Word instructs and refrain from legal action and talk with me.

Paul’s instructions in 1 Corinthians 6:1-7 make it clear that Christians should strive to sit down and talk through differences and discuss matters and make judgments based on His Word, before ever considering going to the law or courts of this world.

In order for this to happen, he would need to:

1) Instruct his lawyer Mr. Nyirenda and copy the instruction to me. The instructions should read that Mr. Nyirenda write a letter to my lawyers informing them that, his client, Mr. Kubik has dropped all legal claims against me.

2) When my Lawyers write a letter to me confirming the facts in 1 above, then, we can make a plan to talk

I checked your letter thoroughly and there in, you make no reference to my above request.

Was this an error of omission? Or God forbid and I even tremble as ask the next question, could it be that you are not willing to do what God instructs in his word? I certainly hope that this was an error of omission.

We met in 2000 and began a relationship, which I still deeply value, based on the understanding that we both feared God. Our proposed meeting will only bear good fruit if this premise still holds true.

When I receive a comment on both of my requests then:

a) I will be in a position to comment on the rest of your letter

b) I will also be in a position to decide whether to meet you next week or to meet you in court; should you choose to travel the later route.

Yours sincerely
Kambani Banda

After Mr. Kubik failed to state whether he was willing to abide by scripture, Mr. Banda for the third and final time in a subsequent email dated April 21st, repeated his request to Mr. Kubik and never heard back from him. The next “communication” Mr. Banda received from Mr. Kubik was formal court process.
 In light of the above, how can it seriously be maintained that a “peaceful resolution” was pursued, and that for months! Aside from the April communications I have alluded to above, Mr. Banda and Mr. Kubik did not communicate until September 30. Sadly, it is Mr. Kubik who rebuffed peaceful reconciliation by his unwillingness to drop the lawsuit as an overture to resolution.

And so began a very sad chapter in church history, where brother went to law against brother, and that before unbelievers. It seems to me that the question that needs to be asked is this: why was a lawsuit (for church assets) initiated in crude defiance of the clear instructions in 1st Corinthians 6?

With all the Hullabaloo that went abroad concerning the “unconscionable” thievery of cattle, it may interest you to learn that Armstrong Maninga, the individual who filed the bogus police complaint against Winter (and then subsequently against the four trustees of the church including Mr. Banda), this past week visited the home of Jerry Schachoongo (one of our elders that resides in the Mumbwa area) to APOLOGIZE for the lies that he has told, the lies that have thrown the whole community into disarray, and in particular, the ugly and filthy lie that our brethren STOLE cattle belonging to him and two other members of similar affiliation. This apology was made in the presence of witnesses including senior members of the village community and Armstrong cannot distance himself from it. What is interesting is that local members of the community (not affiliated with any church group) are acquainted with the revolving fund of oxen and have strongly castigated Armstrong for his fabrication. Please understand that these falsities have not only impacted those in the church, they have also impacted the small rural community where these people live. And while we cannot withhold forgiveness, the havoc that these lies have wreaked in the lives of innocent people is horrendous, not to mention the many precious hours that have been dithered away resolving this issue.

All the Oxen in the revolving pool are in the custody of the Trustees where they belong. Despite Armstrong’s public apology and the various assurances the police have given to drop the matter, I would not be surprised if these allegations resurface again. If criminal charges are pursued, my professional opinion is that the allegations will be relatively easy to dislodge given that the revolving cattle fund is of such notoriety in the community: almost every last person in a particular radius (from the weaned toddler to the senior citizen) is aware that the charges leveled against a son of that community (Winter) were malicious and bogus.

As I conclude now, I wish to make this abundantly clear: if you do not hear an immediate response to allegations disseminated on the internet or elsewhere, understand that we are otherwise occupied. We are not paid to sit and answer allegations; we have to make our bread and butter elsewhere; we too, have to eat.

Do not however, mistake our silence for acquiescence. You will observe that even when an internet article misrepresenting the outcome of judicial proceedings was published, we let the fabrication go unchallenged (never mind the fact that the outcome reported in the article was actually the exact opposite of the outcome that subsisted in reality).

The months that we spent fighting the court case were incredibly involving and stressful: countering misinformation was not a top priority then. Moreover, when policemen come to your home to arrest a family member on trumped up charges (as they tried to do last week, albeit with little success) the last thing on your mind is the latest spin or innuendo gracing the internet. I just thank God that I returned home from my nomadic wonderings in time to support my parents deal with this drama…which has now become a torment of unmitigated proportions.

To those of you inclined to question the authenticity of this basic piece of writing, please do your homework, and stick to an issue based discussion. Yes, I wrote this, and no, nobody “polished” it up for me. I graduated at the top of my Cornell Law School class, so I am sure I can string together a sentence or two…and pay appropriate heed to American grammar and syntax.

The author of this article can be contacted at:    tinebanda@yahoo.co.uk

21 comments:

Jace said...

For fucks sake, you are without a doubt, the most annoying, immature, obnoxious, useless, ignorant comment-troll I have ever encountered. Please, grow up for ten minutes and rethink your obviously wasted life!

Jace said...

And leave Zeus out of this!

Anonymous said...

Does the UCG have one shred of credibility after this?

Jace said...

Did they ever?

Anonymous said...

want to talk about ucg lacking credibility

Well, sure. Where shall we begin?

Stalking? Fondling? Lies about church history? British Israelism? The issue of stolen cattle? Searching for what doctrines it should hold? Losing half its ministers and one third of its congregation over church governance and ethics? 40 lost congregations in less than 10 years? The lies that congregations could have local boards? That mentally ill people will be just fine if they only think happy thoughts? That a year of "Good News" with the Columbine shootings is spreading the gospel? That programmers are ungodly by not accommodating the Year 2000 dates in the 1970s? That the "Good News" is the best magazine in the world today?

There are so many credibility reducers from which to choose.

Speaking of which, does anyone think Anonymous may have Tourettes Syndrome?

Nah, me neither. Just a foul mouthed Armstrongist apologist, managing to reduce his credibility into the negative imaginary numbers divided by zero: Undefined intelligence.

When you can't render a sensible answer, resort to meaningless foul language. That always does the job.

Twit.

Oops! The offending post to which I am responding has been removed! Thanks, Moderator!

NO2HWA said...

I hate to do it because I know some COG members need to comment anonymously, but the bottom feeder needs to be circumcised. My next classification would require registering and using Open ID and or Google account. What do you all think? Do it or let the sexual deviate do what he wants and I delete him each time?

Jace said...

I'm a big fan of Open ID/google.

Deleting comments is fun and all but next thing you know, this clown will be crying about censorship.

My $.02

Anonymous said...

Wow, this all over cattle. I realize it may be important for the locals involved, but come on. I wouldn't trust those organizations to work out anything.

Anonymous said...

It would be interesting to see if the foul mouther could come up with something new.
btw foul mouther, many of us are aware that christianity is a lie. Could you post something new and more intelligent?

William Lyndberg II

Anonymous said...

Which ucg is accusing the other ucg of stealing the cattle? I'm confused as to which ucg is which.

William Lyndberg II

Homer said...

WOW - During the past several days there has been an onset of language that really belongs in the sewer. I realize that some immature, insecure, adolesent people feel the need to express themselves with such vulgar words. Afterall, it makes one feel so powerful with all those superior expressions of maturity and strength over those with whom we disagree.

I will admit I spouted my share when I was a young immature adolesent. I also heard my share of this when I was in the military.

I guess as one ages that desire to be so prolific in language and a master of debate, those expressions seem less important.

I'm not upset or offended by those expressions, I just think it is totally unnecessary for a mature adult.

Anonymous said...

I'd say anon is writing drunk on a Sunday afternoon

Homer said...

OOPS - I just read my post. The 3rd paragraph does not read as I intended. I will re-phrase it the way it was intended to read.

I guess as one ages, that desire to use such words in order to be so prolific in language and to be a master of debate, those expressions seem less important.

Anonymous said...

Anon said "I'd say anon is writing drunk on a Sunday afternoon"

Either that or I suspect that anonymous with the dirty mouth is a teenager who has nothing better to do with his time.

caseywollberg said...

"You need to look at the lies..."

Oh, yes, thanks, we'll get right on that. Good thing anonymous is here to set us on the path of enlightenment, else we'd never know to be critical of the delusion called Christianity. This meathead is so typical of the weak and the base. They project their own limitations onto everyone else, not realizing they are just plain inferior. It's great entertainment.

caseywollberg said...

"What do you all think? Do it or let the sexual deviate do what he wants and I delete him each time?"

For spammers like "shit-fucker" here I would suggest the following (assuming you have the time): Go in and edit every comment he posts, putting much more creative yet self-incriminating words in his mouth. For example,

"NO2HWA, fuck you. people know who you really are. fuck you and your lies you shit fucker,"

could be changed to:

"Hi, my name is shit-fucker and I like to play with my own feces. Don't bother waiting for me to contribute something relevant or useful to the discussion because--oh, paint chips! [nom]"

Okay, probably not a good use of your time, but it would be funny.

NO2HWA said...

William: The original accuser was Victor Kubik from United Church of God based in Cincinnati, OH. The accused are Church of God a Worldwide Association which was the group that to took close to 10,000 members away from UCG last January. I know it gets confusing since we are getting close to 700 splinter groups now from the original WCG.

NO2HWA said...

Anon is probably some 40 year old momma's boy still living at home in Mommy's basement, never had a real job, is lucky to have graduated from high school, has most likely never attend college, never had sex and is an alcoholic.

Either that or he is the son of a COG minister who has been discussed on here and does not like seeing Daddy-O made fun of.

So should we expect anything more of him?

Jace said...

"Either that or he is the son of a COG minister who has been discussed on here and does not like seeing Daddy-O made fun of.

So should we expect anything more of him?"


Well, as the son of a COG minister myself, I'd say yes we should!

I don't plan on making fun of my father specifically, but I'll mock his beliefs all day long.

I know its rare, but we PK's are capable of forming our own thought patterns independently of our "double-portion"-weilding-fathers :-p

Of course, I could be the exception to the rule. What the hell do I know.

NO2HWA said...

Here is an update on our "Anonymous" poster that has been spamming us.

With some detective work and with emails from several people I now know who one of the persons is! I have the full name, what this persons email address is, and the Facebook account. So this persons empty threats to me can translate into some serious problems for the person since I have saved all the comments. This persons internet provider and Facebook will appreciate Having the information.

It just goes to show how law keeping can warp the mind of some people.

Anonymous said...

"I hate to do it because I know some COG members need to comment anonymously, but the bottom feeder needs to be circumcised. My next classification would require registering and using Open ID and or Google account. What do you all think? Do it or let the sexual deviate do what he wants and I delete him each time?"


Just keep on deleting him/her/it.

This seems to happen to every blog that allows anonymous comments, and they all then usually stop allowing it. Some really interesting stuff then disappears.

Just reading the same old regular postors all the time can get boring.