Bob Thiel's new church is off to a
rollicking start! One of his minister/representatives has been sentenced to
life in prison for a shoot-out with police and for fraud.
Bob was such a good evaluator of character that he brought on George Obunga Otieno as his representative in the African region. Bob did not do due diligence in vetting the guy. Otieno scammed another COG prior to joining up with Thiel.
I guess that "double dose" of the holy spirit did not do much to open Thiel's eyes.
James Malm is reporting the following saga of the Thiel/Otieno situation
Bob was such a good evaluator of character that he brought on George Obunga Otieno as his representative in the African region. Bob did not do due diligence in vetting the guy. Otieno scammed another COG prior to joining up with Thiel.
I guess that "double dose" of the holy spirit did not do much to open Thiel's eyes.
James Malm is reporting the following saga of the Thiel/Otieno situation
About a year ago I wrote to Bob Thiel warning him about fraud in east Africa particularly in Kenya. He responded thanking me and saying that he was being very careful, then he took on George Obunga Otieno as his rep in the region.
George was later found to be a scammer and Bob was invited to hold his Feast with Richard Trevor and Bill Goff’s group; because of the lateness of the time, and for economic reasons due to the G. Otieno situation.
Richard Trevor informs me that:
We knew it first, [Actually I knew it first and warned Bob] and with much persuasion, convinced Bob that he wasn’t trustable. The man (George Obunga Otieno) is now in jail with a life sentence for engaging in a shootout with the police when they came to arrest him for other fraudulent activities. He was sentenced within weeks. The US could take a lesson. AND, the fellow’s cousin, Polycap Ogalo, is (was?) [employed] with the Police there, but has been conspicuous by his absence since we discovered his [He also tried to defraud these groups] fraud with us. He might’ve been fired, but all who know of the situation are mum.
The man (George Obunga Otieno) scammed James Russell before Bob, taking a large amount to fund a feast for him (CoG in Truth). Though he used a different name (that’s common in Africa) we suspected he was one-and-the-same fellow by his mailing address and by using another person to enquire about the FoT in Homa Bay, we realized it was a ruse. It never happened. That was to be Bob’s site, and we had been working on one nearby, but thought it better to merge the two [allowing Bob to join the other folks site after his letdown with George].
Bob Thiel recently made a trip to Kenya partially funded by Richard Trevor and Bill Goff to hold a COG convention.
Malm then points out Thiel's claim that he has 20 some congregations in East Africa is not true. This is something that many of us have suspected all along.That was our interest, to have some credentialed person meet and evaluate the situation. That’s why we helped with the funding of this [Bob's] trip. Earlier, we intended that the Kenyans host their own elders’ convention, so that they could meet and assess the genuinety of each other, but when Bob indicated he was intending to go there, that proved the better option, and less costly. Quite a large number of elders did attend.
I am informed that these groups will continue with the same foreign sponsors as before, and that the purpose of this meet was a “get to know your neighbor event”, to fight any possible future scams. There are several independent groups involved in the meetings and Thiel’s claim that CCOG currently has over 20 congregations in East Africa, with more expected soon.” is purely in his own imagination; unless he is attempting a takeover of these other groups.
In fact Thiel may have attempted to entice these various groups to join CCOG [hence the 20 congregations claim]; which is why Bill Goff and other COG leaders have now rushed to Kenya to asses the situation. The meetings were meant as cooperation against fraud: Did Thiel use their money to go to Kenya to try and poach their congregations?
It was Bob who convinced them to partially fund and send him. “we intended that the Kenyans host their own elders’ convention, so that they could meet and assess the genuinety of each other, but when Bob indicated he was intending to go there, that proved the better option, and less costly.” Now that Bill Goff had to rush to Kenya anyway, it does not appear much cheaper than him going in the first place.
31 comments:
"I guess that "double dose" of the holy spirit did not do much to open Thiel's eyes.
Basically, Bob Thiel can have as many doses of the holy liquor as he wants and everything is going to be exactly the same as before he had any doses of it. That's the problem with the holy spirit. It doesn't do anything. A double-shot of a regular spirit will at least do something.
Second, the idea that Bob Thiel "has" these congregations in the first place is ignoring the realities and economies of the situation:
1) What can Bob possibly do for them that they can't do for themselves already? If these "congregations" are already organized and functioning, why would they need a Bob Thiel? Why would they let Bob waltz in, take them over, and then start calling the shots? Tinkering with their doctrines? Each of these congregations already has it's own belief structures and hierarchies of bigshots. Bigshots don't go out looking for bigger-shots to submit to unless there's something in it for them, like subsidies and/or a chance to extend their influence by building a bigger empire in their own backyard. I would be very surprised if Bob could do anything else for the church bigshots in Africa. He certainly can do nothing for the average member of these congregations.
2) What can the Africans do for Bob? The African bigshots aren't the only ones trying to build bigger empires for themselves. Bob wants to show up LCG by building a bigger empire than Uncle Rod. It's unlikely he'll succeed, but he's gonna give it the old college try. Since it's unlikely he's going to convince these far-flung pre-existing congregations to see things his way doctrinally or prophetically, or allow Bob to re-brand them as CCOG, the only thing these groups are going to allow Bob to do is send them his money. What does Bob get in return for his money? The right to boast of a bigger empire? From a desperate point of view, perhaps. In a perfect world, his money would buy a better safety net for the members of these congregations living on the edge. In reality, we don't live in that world, do we?
3) Does Bob have enough money to afford to be scammed by 20 congregations at once? If anybody is being "had" it's Bob, not the street-smart Africans whose cultures often support very different ideas about "right" and "wrong" that are foreign and unexpected to the simple uninitiated American like Bob. Often their take on Christianity is also foreign with the same words meaning very different things. But I guess I could say similar things about narcissist and sociopathic Christian leaders here in the US. The successful ones tend to be just as street-smart, the less successful ones, like Bob, tend to be naïve blobs of neediness and egotism. Who's zoomin' who? Take another look and tell me, Bobby.
4) Bob is trying to play church Monopoly. Bob cannot acquire and "have" new congregations at the drop of a hat like hotels on Baltic Avenue. Congregations that Bob did not build through his own influence are congregations he can never "have" regardless of what price he pays to buy them. They'll never follow him or believe him, though they might take his money. But Bob's US following is too small to afford to buy many other properties or put houses or hotels on them. We all know this intuitively and discount Bob's boasting, don't we?
Funny story.
Now who the hheck are Bill Guff and Trevor Whoever?
Seems like it is really important to the far away, (and irrelevant to their situation), COGLETS to get all of these far flung African congregations onto their "PLANTATION" in order to brag about numbers and their own "viability".
It really is rather sick, and insane. Aren't there enough people in San Luis Obispo county for Thiel to evangelize? There is not one COG group of any type within 150 miles of him and an available population of over 1 million people for him to "outreach to" right in his own backyard.
Learn how to crawl before you learn how to run. Everything in its order. Heck, even Armstrong started just in Oregon and Washington for many years before branching out, and some 19 years before even trying to outreach to Europe.
Matthew 23:15
New International Version
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are."
Sorry...couldn't resist the parallel...and no I don't beliee they will go to hell as I don't believe it to be anything real. (I know..'you'll change your mind when you in it.") But all the effort these folk go to to get a following is breathtaking. Wonder if Bob's next door neighbors are impressed with his truth?
Evidently in the COG's if you want a following you build it from as far away from the actual you as possible and work your way towards the center which never really happens.
Auditoriums and "like me, like me" events and give a ways are more the norm for COG types. The don't evangelize the locals in their immediate location. No one would care.
They also don't seem to get it that poor folk in far off lands will take what they can give from any religious group and promise them whatever they want to hear to keep the money and support flowing. Tis a dangerous game for a church even a fake one like those that Bob and others head up if even in their imaginations
Ahhhh, kiddie kiddies, I smell a conspiracy theory coming on! Bob Thiel has the "shooting" spirit! The Terry Ratzmann incident happened because of Bob's involvement in LCG. Now that he is on his own, it has left the LCG, and these types of shooting incidents will be plaguing his own ministry!
I find it odd that the Africans would see the good doctor as being "credentialed", since his is one more example of self-exaltation in that he credentialed himself.
Hint to prospective followers of Thiel: Be sure to wear police quality Kevlar vests as part of your sabbath or feast attire. If you can't afford these with your normal living money, it's ok to purchase them with second tithe!
One more snicker: James Malm's self-posturing as the great corrector!
BB
Honorable Mr. Thiel,
I have a small congregation in Africa desperately in need of help. We keep all the same beliefs you do faithfully, having discovered them in the Bible and found you teach the very same things we believe.
We want you to support us in your Christian fellowship.
We have collected much money and if you could just confirm your honorable intentions with your bank account number, social security number and passwords so we can transfer $15 million into your account, we will be able to have you as our spiritual leader and guide.
Respectfully,
George Obungle Scamartist
bcc: UCG, COGWA, LCG, COGIT, PKG, RCG, ICG, GCI, CCG, COGIPAT, PCG, COGSR....
That's the kind of problem what happens with the sort of crooked little self-aggrandized man "God's lil' Duuble-Dosey Boobinator" is.
Of course and sparkeningly, he'll probably try to spin this as proof of his imagined grandeur.
Are all of these so-called leaders just trying to use one another? I teach in Tanzania each year and there the "pastors" are untrained and dirt poor. Some of these Africans want to reach out to tap into our assets and leaders here want to reach out to them and pretend their ministries are growing and larger than they really are. Everyone is trying to use everyone else.
Thiel, your truly a moron. You have been had by a professional con artist. You should join up with rotten Ronnie when he gets out of jail for tax evasion. Just maybe you could open up a church in the hood and defraud the poor and destitute here in America. It would be CHEAPER!
Fucking loser!!!
What a bunch of more crap. When will they ever have time to be "sinless" in this life...LOLLL
I remember Gerald Flurry telling the PCG "You Regional Director's need to be more careful who you make ministers. I was thinking...Gerald Flurry needs to be more careful in who he makes Regional Director's, namely >BRIAN DAVIS<.
Better yet...Gerald Flurry needs to step down and give up his >THAT PROPHET< position because no one authorized it anyway!
Now that's out of the way....Dennis, can we now vote on our most favoritist hellarious post yet?
Mine is the one of a PCG spokesman's club with Andrew Hessong(Uncle Andy)sitting center stage, and in the upper corner of the room behind him, a camera with a rag over it! ROTFLMAO still!!
I occasionally get email from some African reading my website. Like this one Dear Man of God.
I am very enriched after my encounter with you through internet, im philip ochieng in Africa(Kenya) i have read much about you and the ministry too. I read too from Ccog led by Bob thiel who too have a congregation and other projects back here in kenya, he says much about Cog PKG and only evils.
We were members of UCG we left it and joined LCG and now we no longer join hands with them for some of bad things others do in the ministry. I did attend a feast of turbanacles in Naivasha Fishermans Cump and there were so much evils. People did cump in tents, men separated from women. At day time there were used condoms that shawed there were sexuals among the brethren, this was so embarasing. I and my family packed off and this made us be ex-communicated from the church.
I have been leading a small group of about 60 and our group has been blessed due to fast growth. We have been thinking of getting a congregation to patner with us untill i got your contact and share the little that i got from the This is where the email ended.
Just so all of you know, Bob Thiel is also the laughing stock of the neighborhood here in Arroyo Grande. He is widely perceived to be a quack with all his "herbal" remedies he pawns off as "healthy."
For you entertainment, and to educate false prophet Bobby Thiel, I present a page of religious spam for some shits and giggles.
Yes, I did respond to these scammers for for my own sense of fun and gaming, for the purpose of waging a war back against those who would game me.
You should enjoy the one long scam that Kenya Joe tried to pull over on the religious ministry of James of the PAINFUL TRUTH!
http://www.hwarmstrong.com/junk-mail.htm
Well, now, thou foolish virgin, at least u have some sense of the relevance of the Word of God.
You gotta wonder if the Africans know the status which the ACOGs have planned for them in the Armstrongist Kingdom of God.
Actually, maybe they do. I mean, if you felt the need to scam someone, it makes sense to either target people who think you are inferior, or people who themselves are scammers.
BB
Wow. Following events among Armstrongites in Africa I, like many others, suspected this would not end well for Thiel. I never imagined things would fall apart in such a dramatic and monstrous end.
Just learned that PCG's no contact policy with "Laodiceans" does not seem to apply to Stephen Flurry.
It is stated in the Notes of his book, Raising the Ruins, that he had a telephone interview with Aaron Dean on November 22, 2005.
"Personal interview with Aaron Dean, November 22, 2005." (Footnotes, 5, 7, 14 and 28 for Chapter 3. Footnotes 1 and 23 for Chapter 4. Footnote 1 for Chapter 5.)
Clearly there is one rule for the sheep and another for the shepherds within PCG.
Probably the last thing on these scammers' minds is targeting people who think they are inferior.
These are results-oriented business people, who target those who are most likely to yield "results" for them.
Mainstream (and not so mainstream) "American Jesus casualties" are their bread and butter!
Perhaps Doctor Thiel is viewed as a WITCH DOCTOR amongst the Africans, or perhaps even Doctor Doolittle and can talk to the animals??
Thiel sermon for Africa this week (from Alvin & The Chipmunks song, "Witch Doctor" 1958)
https://youtu.be/TSn7ekxLSRQ?t=13
I told the witch doctor, I was in love with you
Doh, doh, doh, doh
I told the witch doctor, I was in love with you
Doh, doh, doh, doh
And than the witch doctor, he told me what to do
He told me
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang
A little off topic, but I have a question for Bob Thiel.
Mr. Thiel, we know you read here but are a bit on the shy side about responding to our questions. So, it's fine if you just want to respond on Cogwriter if you prefer. Do you think it's OK to drink regular Budweiser? I know we shouldn't drink Bud Lite because they endorse and encourage sinful trans sexual activity. Also, this might be an off the beaten path question for you to answer because trans sexuals don't usually play football. I will pray that the vitamin companies don't seek out trans sexual spokespersons, because I can't imagine how that might affect funding for your work. Poor Mr. Obunga! He was probably shooting at Bud Lite cans, which is only a sin if you do it in the sabbath!
He is widely perceived to be a quack with all his "herbal" remedies he pawns off as "healthy."
What does that prove? Science by public opinion is "bandwagon science" carried out by non-scientists. It's dumb.
As far as I'm concerned, most ACOG ministers belong in the above prison. They give nice sounding sermons, then go and do the opposite with their 'the end justifies the means' school yard bully morality.
Well if what people are saying about the current African Leaders than I think we will see a few more serving time.
How can even a fake prophet be so blind to what is going on? Does he actually need these fake numbers so bad to pretend to be a legit player in the COG world?
I actually feel that Bob has the potential to be more dangerous than Pack and Flurry. He just can not be that blind or stupid.
To Anon @ 6:16 who wrote (Bob) he just can not be that blind or stupid.
Therein lies the rub. He is that blind and stupid, but the main issue with Bob is, was and will always be EGO. I have seen the egos involved in Armstrongism, heard it from their own lips, read it from their own pens. However, the lower the self worth of these men, the bigger the ego, arrogance and pride. On this score only, Bob comes out the winner, by miles. His self worth would have to be infinitesimal to negative territory for the level of hubris he shows.
I personally have never seen anything like Bob. Banned had a classic article written by Bob a few years back wherein, quite literally, Bob mentioned himself in the third person 106 x more than he mentioned Jesus. I did an actual count and it came out approximately 106 Bobs for every Jesus. That, believe it or not, has only gotten worse. He simply does not see it though. Utterly oblivious, paddling ever harder and faster to swim with the big fish, never realizing the futility of his man made efforts. The laughingstock we all see now is the inevitable result.
Bob Theil is not credentialed. His self ordination is as fraudulent as his useless degrees. I know Gaylen Bonjour quite well and regard him as a good friend. We've shared a few laughs about the anointing.
I knew the nerdy Bob in the Fresno WCG in the '80s. He had followed Les McColm like a lapdog when Les was transferred from SoCal.
Bob was making a living installing sprinklers.
I am amazed he has more than his wife in his group.
I am amazed he has more than his wife in his group.
I am amazed he has a wife.
Disclaimer:
"The ideas presented by Bob Thiel are to be taken as entertainment only. Under no circumstances should they be used as a pattern for one's life by the reader. Persons taking them seriously do so at their own peril, risking permanent damage and possibly even death!"
12:41 said: I know Gaylen Bonjour quite well and regard him as a good friend. We've shared a few laughs about the anointing.
Then why doesn't Gaylen Bonjour just speak up and publicly clear it up? Maybe he does believe that Doctor Thiel is doubly annointed in his heart but he doesn't want to say so.
Nobody has any authority to anoint anybody to a rank higher than themselves. Bob should submit himself to the Gaylen Bonjour dude rather than run his own work.
Bob has placed Gaylen Bonjour in a difficult position. By claiming to derive his authority as a prophet from a prayer offered up during the annointing, he has asserted that Mr. Bonjour set himself up to deliberately violate the beliefs and policies set by Armstrongism's founder, HWA, and perpetuated by third in command for all eternity, Roderick C. Meredith. If Thiel had thought this through, he would realize that even if true, this violation has automatically rendered his so-called annointing or ordination null and void. My ordination with the Universal Life Church is actually more valid and less problematic than Bob Thiel's, although I treat mine as the joke and conversation piece that it really is, and would never think of actually using it. Too bad Bob can't just laugh about his!!! I mean it is quite hilarious.
I feel very sorry for Gaylen Bonjour. Undoubtedly he must have been mocked mercilessly in his school years with word plays involving possible nicknames, and now someone goes and accuses him of being presumptuous with the entire authority structure of the Philadelphia era of "God's Church"! His name is forever associated with Bob Thiel's blasphemy! Some people just can't win.
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