Bumped this back up because new comment below
Just when I think I have heard it all along comes this story that was in my "in box" a few minutes ago. It is appalling beyond belief! How sick can the Living Church of God get?
Rod McNair recently ordered one of his members to quit their job at a nursing home where they worked helping sickly senior citizens. His reason? Demons. It is his belief that demons often inhabit the elderly. LCG recommends that its members stay away from people with mental illness and now they have added to that, the elderly. Ironic since the average age of an LCG member is about 75 and its leader, Rod Meredith, is 85. According to sources, this member obediently quit their job immediately after being told to. Most professionals understand the importance of giving a notice of resignation out of respect for the employer and to maintain ones reputation in the industry. But not McNair. This member was subsequently accused of being disobedient to God's ministry by not quitting quickly enough once McNair learned that the member worked a two week notice to wrap up their obligations to the company. The member has now been disfellowshipped.
This raises several questions. What kind of church tells a member to quit a job that entails helping the needy on a daily basis? The elderly are often forgotten or neglected in our society. Is that what Jesus would do? What kind of member obeys this insane request, likely to their own financial detriment? Is it Christian to avoid the sick? The mentally ill? Is it fair to treat the mentally ill as demon possessed? Even if this person was told to quit and didn't, would that really be grounds for disfellowshipment? Are LCG members outraged by this or are they onboard with this type of behavior?
Every time I hear another one of these stories coming out of Charlotte I am left wondering... what will it take to make people realize that this isn't what being led by Christ looks like. By their fruits they will be known... wake up sheeple.
70 comments:
Demons often inhabit the ministers of the Living Church of God, so all LCG members should leave immediately.
I guess no one in LCG has disabilities, or children with disabilities? Or maybe they're just a necessary evil in McNair's eyes, in order to keep that sweet sweet tithe money rolling in? Who knows.
Well, the idiots must not believe that their church members have God's protection! Which actually concurs with what is true in the case of a fake religious cult! So, in their specific case, maybe McNair is correct in his advice. LCG is as fake as a three dollar bill, anyway!
What is this guy afraid of? That someone compassionately assisting the elderly will be bitten by the homosexual demon? What a crock of superstition these heretics have manufactured!
BB
Not only is Rod Meredith elderly, but he's also mentally ill! Got a a demon for sure!!! Why not just leave him at the mall?
Oh, the medieval barbarity. Jezus! Newsflash: the dark ages are over, Rod McNair!
What's wrong with these guys?
I would wear being disfellowshiped from LCG as a badge of honor.
Roddie Mack has a bigger hole in his butt than A-hola, and A-holibah! The people with the demons in LCG are the younger couples that are mercilessly beatiing the hell out of their children as they scream to them about the Germans! Unfortunately, those are the people whom they ordain as deacons and local elders! The seniors are the ones who would be calling for mercy.
~Miguel de la Rodente
Is that true? Are they still beating the kids? Figured they would have switched to the Chinese like PCG.
Devils advocate here: damned if you do, damned if you don't
Admittedly, I do not know McNair's personal opinion in any familiarity, but this sounds a little suspicious to me. Just being around old folks because you might catch "the demons" sounds a tad farfetched for the COGs line of thought. But maybe he is that crazed.
Maybe they wanted this individual to quit working at the nursing home because they plan to put RCM there and it would have just made it too complicated to have a church member wiping his butt and feeding him pureed chicken
I also find it funny that they think that elderly dementia patients are demon possessed when that is exactly what Meredith is!
Hypocrisy abounds over at LCG.
I was at an LCG service shortly before the feast of Tabernacles and an elder announced that we are not allowed to give money to anyone directly for the purpose of helping with their costs of going to the feast. He said that we have to send it to hq so they could decide who gets the festival assistance and that there may be reasons we're not aware of not to help specific individuals such as sin and unfaithfulness. The announcement was deemed necessary after the ministry discovered there was a lot of this going on.
apparently many "COGs" are populated by people following a man, hence the unquestioning obedience.
seems like I've read somewhere that we should obey God rather than men........
no one would have to disfellowship me for not quitting my job because I'd have left them first.
There were a number of decisions, as an Armstrong slave, that I made that made my family say (or maybe scream) "What the hell?!?!?"
The topper, the one that ruined my life, was when I was told I needed to quit my job because it was, in a way, related to the military . . . or that was the reason given. The REAL reason, as I see it in hindsight, was that Mr. "Minister" needed to make me obey something he said -- he needed to assert his "authority" and make me "exercise faith." No doubt some of that ego-driven demonstration of "authority" is at work here. Any excuse will do, but these cretins we called "ministers" (and called "Mr." undeservingly) just sometimes needed, or need to, make us do something to show they can. To service THEIR need to "prove" they're SOMEBODY (and we are nobody).
The "blessing" for my obedience was having to work in fast food (because I couldn't find anything else), live off withdrawn pension money until it was gone, move back in with family (and live in a household with a virulently hostile family member, angry toward the stupid one who would just up and do what some church told him to).
I recovered from the situation I put myself in, but have yet to work in any profession I might have chosen. I took the jobs I could find and advanced on the basis of my hard work. I have NEVER done what I wanted to do, never done anything my talents really pointed to my doing. This is what I gave up because I thought that old man on TV had "truth" no one else had.
I know that others out there who obeyed this bogus "authority" ended up worse, much worse. I will pray for the gentleman spoken of here, as I have for others. I hope he has training and background such that he can find something else in health care.
I hope my feelings toward that false minister are placid now -- even that I have forgiven him. God knows I've imagined, many times, encountering that lout, running up and cold-cocking him and then kicking him after he was down. Better if I never see him again.
I believe that I can say this: no matter what else I decide to do in this life, I will NEVER make as bad a mistake as obeying that time I did.
Thank you for posting my words.
Someone should give the name of this disfellowshipped person so we can contact them and get their side of the story. I'm sure LCG would give their side if we asked. Then we could blast the story across the web for others to see.
Back in 1983, my best friend somehow became ensnared by a Pentecostal group. The similarities which I immediately noticed to my own past really turned me off. They were spending most of their disposable time on the church, and the wife stopped using cosmetics. They had also begun perceiving me not as a best friend, but as a non-believing danger to their faith.
My friend had always aspired to a career in law enforcement. During the course of his membership in the Pentecostal cult, he had been praying for some sort of open door in the police sciences. One of his many applications was accepted, and when he shared with his pastor the "good" news, and that he and his wife would be moving away from the area, the pastor immediately told him that this was of Satan, because Christians were not supposed to work in law enforcement. He instructed them to kneel in prayer, repenting, and asking God for new direction. My friend immediately left that group, and went on to enjoy a long career as a cop. He saw things differently than his former pastor, and on occasion would describe himself as being "under cover" for God, using his influence to impact his surroundings in many positive ways. His transition from fanaticism to a more moderate and realistic belief system was beneficial to his and his wife and child's life in many ways, and made it possible to continue our long term friendship as well.
If Rod McNair were instructing a call girl to seek another profession, who amongst us would take umbrage, and for basic health and safety reasons, not just religious ones. But, Armstrongism is an intrusive or invasive system, one which always goes too far in regulating peoples lives. Somebody needs to take care of the geriatric set with love and compassion. You would think that a church would be proud of a member's potentially profound impact on that culture, and would encourage and applaud their patience and stamina. But, alas, they don't see a Christian's role as infusing good influences into undesirable situations, impacting them for the better, they see Christians as being very weak, and always needing to be on guard against being corrupted by outsiders, or evil-doers, with the minister hovering over, as a perpetual protector or enforcer. Hopelessness, and a perpetual childlike state of mind are the natural consequences of such thinking.
Looking at it from a different standpoint, though, perhaps in reality, ultimate good was accomplished by Rod's totalitarianism. Armstrongism is not a normal religion. It warps peoples' natural goodness, and often redefines normal Christian fruits as being against God's purpose. The last profession in which you would want to see an intolerant fanatic working would be as a caregiver. So in a sense, this tendency of the ACOGs to "self-quarantine" for various reasons is perhaps not altogether bad. At least, not in this specific case.
BB
The Karma Fairy is taking names....
SSSssshhhh! The ACOGs believe that the Karma Fairy is a member of the LGBT community!
~Miguel de la Rodente
I've read this post 3 or 4 times now trying to understand it. The LCG through Rod McNair is now telling people that they can't help the elderly????
This can't be right! And someone got disfellowshipped over it? Dis-fellowship = Lake of Fire eternal damnation in Armstrongism.
First, in this economy, just having a job can be a blessing. It provides this member tithe slave an income to tithe to the church from. What was this member suppose to live off and support himself from?
Second, it's real easy for this Rod McNair to tell someone to give up their job - Rod's got a job albeit a pretend job living off the dumb sheep tithe slaves. He is probably never had a real job. Mr. McNair probably couldn't help the elderly or do the job.
Third, there is some irony here. The member is fired for having a job that is basically being a servant to the elderly. The minister Rod McNair is suppose to be a servant, but is doing no one a service.
All your questions in your post are point on. I have an additional question: Is this Rod McNair any relation to that baffoon Raymond F. McNair?
Nothing surprises me anymore from the Dying Church of God
Richard
“It is his belief that demons often inhabit the elderly.”
There could be something to this idea. It certainly did seem like demons inhabited the elderly members of Gerald Flurry's PCG, especially the ones who passed themselves off as leaders in the local group. On the other hand, looking at a sample of people from a satanic cult like the PCG might have skewed the results.
And people wonder how it is that elderly persons are neglected. Well this story just showed us how it happens.
What a disgusting thing to say, that the elderly are prone to demon possession. What madness that is.
Those morons in Charlotte have used an image of a bunch of innocent victims about to be murdered by some affiliates of the (so-called) "Islamic State" terrorists for their latest Tomorrow's World issue (May-June 2015).
I think it is disgusting and reprehensible for LCG to use such an image on the front cover of their recruitment magazine.
Those terrorists want us to see that. The terrorists use that image to intimidate people over there into thinking that they cannot be stopped. And LCG's "leaders" thoughtlessly play along and publish this image that the terrorists want us to see.
It is understandable that a news organization would show an image like that. But Tomorrow's World magazine is not a news organization. So this makes their publication of this image reprehensible.
Has an image like this, an image of the last moments of some innocent victims' lives, been shown on a COG recruitment magazine before?
Also what about the children of Tomorrow's World subscribers? They will easily see this terrible image. Why on Earth would LCG's leaders want to print out this magazine so that anyone, including children, will see this?
So often LCG's leaders tell us not to watch violent movies. Then they stick an image of real fatal violence on their recruitment magazine.
LCG's leaders are losing their grip on reality. This is only the latest sign that this is the case.
I believe (but am not 100% sure) that Rod McNair is the son of the late Carl McNair who was Raymond McNair's youngest brother.
I may be wrong unless there are two Rod McNairs.
Raymond is Rod's uncle and they are cut from the same cloth. Huge ego, inability to ever admit wrong doing, quick to judge, grudge-holding, step on others to exalt yourself tyrants without a drop of Christian character. Which, in LCG, puts you on the fast track to the top.
Bob League was elderly and most definitely possessed by a demon... but to assume that elderly are MORE likely than any other age group to be demon possessed is ageist and hateful.
I know this person. They were in a good position at this nursing home for years. I went to this facility to visit 3 different church members who were each there for a short time after being in the hospital for different things. One of them was a minister.
Each time I left the nursing home I remember thinking that you would have to be a saint to work there. I can't imagine helping people like that with everything from getting food in their mouths to going to the toilet (or worse, cleaning a diaper).
I have heard this rumor going through LCG ever since the Winter Weekend but I haven't talked to the person because we have been told not to. It makes me feel sad that something like this could happen and I don't understand it.
Serving those who are rarely served (the elderly) seems honorable.
It seems like it would have been easy enough for Mr. McNair to prove that this person had quit their job simply by calling the nursing home and asking if so-and-so still worked there.
Even still, I can't imagine asking them to quit in the 1st place :(
"Are LCG members outraged?"
No. They aren't. They believe that LCG is the Church of God under the direction of Jesus Christ led by Christ's chosen leader, Rod Meredith.
We believe that God is in charge of the Church and that it is not for us to understand why God's ministry do these kind of things. It is our job to trust and obey them. In doing this it shows that we are able to be lead and therefore we will be established as pillars in God's Kingdom.
If we question the ministry but say we believe they are being lead by Christ, then we are in essence questioning Christ.
If this person was told to flee to the place of safety, would they wait 2 weeks to do it? Maybe this was a test to see if they really trusted LCG ministry, and they failed. They should have had the faith to not worry about their reputation in the field, or money or anything else. If you follow without questioning you show your loyalty. LCG ministry has an extra measure of God's Spirit and is better able to discern these things. Most LCG members acknowledge this. To quote Mr. Meredith, "those who don't know where the door is".
@ Anon 6:00am - We left LCG 15 years ago because we saw the writing on the wall, that loyalty, above all else was key to the ministry keeping control. You seem the exact type that would have gone willingly to Jonestown, believed everything was being done for the betterment of all involved and taken a "extra portion" of Kool-aid to prove your heart was with the esteemed leader. Nowhere in scripture does it tell us to follow men blindly, as so many in the splinters are doing. I really wonder how well Christ would even be welcome among these groups, if he didn't also show blind allegiance to THE man or THE church.
I was having trouble believing this story. So I did a little digging.
And to my horror it is true!
How can this happen?
How can someone be so unchristian?
My mind is boggled by this!
Wondering if the story is not made up. Would be quicker to believe story with sources rather than hearsay.
Anon 6:00 AM, you wrote: "...LCG ministry has an extra measure of God's Spirit and is better able to discern these things..."
There is no way any of the LCGroup ministers have an extra measure of God's Spirit. What competition that would be amongst the ministers as they fight and paw their way to the top.
Additionally, that would make God a respecter of persons by giving out more of His Spirit to some of His children and not the same to all of them.
Now, a measure/proportion of God's fruits of Galatians 5 is something else (e.g. God gives out faith, His godly faith, by measure/proportion-Romans 12:3, 6)
And Rod Meredith, when he was no longer associated with WCG, left his ministerial credentials behind in Pasadena. He really isn't even a minister. HWA and Joe Tkach senior applied those same rules to those who left WCG. Rod should know that. Rod has been exalted to a position he should not be in. In fact, it is almost like people idolizing a human being, which is not a nice thing to do...
John
My remarks below assume that we know the key facts. If the employee had been counseled to quit his job because Obamacare or a sudden policy change had required him to do something horribly sinful, and there was no other remedy, that would change everything. I say that in the interest of fairness, even though our own shared experiences would seem to make this yet another case of ministerial abuse.
One of the underlying problems affecting this case is the teaching of Herbert W. Armstrong regarding authority. Now, whether he had it right, whether this type of authority actually existed in the first century Christian church, (the Way) is something people may want to do a bit more Bible study on (throwing your mind into neutral to be properly guided rather than necessarily being forced to come to the "approved" conclusion).
Basically, if you want to be a member in good standing of an Armstrongite Church of God, then Herbert W. Armstong's words, repeated many times during my years there, apply, and do bind you. "Brethren, you are to take every word from God's ministers as if they had come directly from Jesus Christ." So, with this type of authority, you do not have the right to test the spirits, the right of discernment inherent in "by their fruits you shall know them". You've got to be a Biblical literalist, and you've got to conduct your life as if these men were speaking on behalf of Jesus Christ.
The problem is, what about 1975, the blatant lies that followed, and the ongoing guessing and revision of the prophetic dates ongoing even today? What about every ridiculous word spoken by Gerald Waterhouse? What do you do when your church teaches racism and rationalizes it as actually being God's way that "the world" is blinded to, and therefore can't understand? In fact, if we were to make a list, we could probably come up with hundreds of examples where wrong, ridiculous, and harmful thing were pronounced from the pulpit, or in private counselling sessions, things that in no way would have come directly from Jesus Christ. That would be a true testing of the spirits. This doctrine of theirs is an artificial construct used to support their totalitarian "Nicolaitane" type of authority. It does not build character, it actually builds robots and automatons. (dumb sheep, as HWA used to say!). You could make a very strong argument for the possibility that it even quenches the Holy Spirit.
Rod McNair clearly issued an order that was beyond the scope of his authority, or his understanding. It may even be based on the lingering belief that our secular medical profession is rooted in pagan sorcery, a doctrine (wink, wink) that these men are perfectly willing to "test" on their wives, but somehow never get around to applying to themselves.
My advice to the health care professional who was advised to quit his job would be, don't do it. Go back! Tell them you made a mistake. Something fell through. And, if you feel like you still need to keep the Old Covenant oracles, keep them at home by yourself, but do restudy everything we were taught from scratch and read widely!
BB
"... I haven't talked to the person because we have been told not to."
Hey, Anon 5:47, has it occurred to you to get your head out of your ass and talk to them?
Geez, the moronic things people let themselves think.
As for Anon 6:00, your head-ass thing seems permanent, so we won't even try using logic with you.
There are so many troubling things about this story. I heard it months ago and sort of knew that it would eventually end up being made public. Despite what anon 6:00 says, LCG members are troubled by the story.
It's troubling that they think nursing homes are demon-filled. It's troubling that the ministry think they have the authority to ask someone to quit a job helping people (including church people). It's troubling that this member was accused of "lying about quitting" because they worked a 2 week notice. It's troubling that this person was subsequently disfellowshipped for the so-called lie. Especially since anyone who knows the person knows that they really did quit the job when they said they quit their job which would have been pretty easy to prove in the first place. The whole situation is sad.
LCG is FUBAR.
~Miguel de la Rodente
Armstrongism is not Christianity but social Darwinism. Plain and simple.
Would someone explain to me how you can make the distinction between dementia and demon possession? Please provide me a list of the symptoms of each so I can tell the difference. Was any pastor from the LCG or the WCG ever in the presence of someone who was demon possessed? If so, why didn't they simply cast out the demon and make the nursing home "safe." I imagine that people have been hurt more by LCG/WCG pastors than by demons.
Casting out the supposed demons would A) take actual work on their behalf, and B) mean actually having to do something in the semi-public eye, which the COGs seem to have a real hangup about.
I am well aware of the story. This person quit their job when they said they did (I saw the fairwell party pics on FB) - true. The ministry said demons infest nursing homes and the elderly-true. Unfortunately, it was a gossipy mis-informed church member who told McNair that this individual was still working and in true LCG fashion, the minister believed this gossip whole-heartedly with our verification which obviously would have been easy to provide. So in fact it is the gossip that was guilty of starting and spreading this lie about a fellow church member. Because LCG ministry appear to be completely incapable of ever admitting error, they never corrected the situation. Sadly the lying gossip has suffered no overt consequences . Although I will say that there are a large number of us who see right through her lies, exaggerations and butt kissing and just chose to stay away from her and her husband. Their character is poor to say the least and no one trusts them because of it.
If elderly people are full of demons, it would make sense for the LCG to advocate the extermination of the elderly. Lose their physical life to save their soul.
Anon 2:28 said:
"..no one trusts them because of it."
No one, that is, except the ministry who claim to have an extra portion of God's Spirit which gives them the discernment (and right) to tell the lowly sheeple what to do.
Why do people still follow these serpents?
Wow! Your tragedy took me back in time to 1965 when my now-deceased father resigned a lucrative engineering job with a defense contractor because of the decision made by the honchos in Pasadena that all members should vacate any military-related positions in order to buttress the WCG case for CO status for its draft-age men. Our family barely survived through a horrible transition as my father was unemployed for nearly a year before landing a job that paid much less and required us to move to a new city. It wasn't long after that when Herbert was blaming his wife's illness & subsequent death on the members! As a teenage boy, I thought to myself, "what more does the church expect from us?".
I don't live in Charlotte and I have even heard about this. Not the "demon" part but the part about the member being told to quit and then accused of lying about having quit their job and subsequently getting disfellowshipped for it.
My first thought was how can a minister tell a member to quit a legit job for ANY reason???
I am shocked that anyone in one of the major LCG church areas has not heard about this. It was rampant at the Feast and rampant at the Charlotte Winter Weekend.
I guarantee everyone in Charlotte and Kansas City (the two largest congregations) is aware of this story. I'm only surprised that it took this long to make it into the light of the non LCG public.
I heard about it from a Charlotte church member(Dawn)who used to live in KC who is good friends with Rod McNair and Wyatt Ciceilka. The story I heard from her was nearly identical to the one posted here. The only difference was that she continued in the lie that this member had been dishonest and hadn't really quit the job in question even though, at this point, everyone knows the member in question wasn't guilty of the accusation. The whole thing reeks of injustice and leaves a nasty taste in ones mouth.
This time a year ago, I was just a happy ignorant church member. After all the do-do that has gone on in the last year and how unfairly the ministry has started treating members on the basis of what truly looks like flimsy reasons or even false accusation. The whole thing is heartbreaking.
Take a look at this. Here it seems as though Gerald Flurry is praising people refusing to take medicine and dying for it.
"This is REAL, ABUNDANT LIVING—EVEN IF WE ARE DYING PHYSICALLY! Over the years in my ministry, I have seen a few people physically rot right before my eyes and yet remain loyal to God every step of the way to the end! Though it must be one of the most grotesque sights to see, at the same time it is one of the MOST MAJESTICALLY NOBLE examples ever on Earth, from God’s point of view! If someone is being loyal in circumstances like that, he or she is BEARING WITNESS OF THE FATHER! What a precious, extraordinary beauty that is! I know I will see those people again, and they will live FOREVER AND EVER! When resurrected, they won’t remember that trial for very long. They will have ETERNAL LIFE!
"Are you prepared to trust God to heal you, now or in the resurrection? Well done, good and faithful servant, He will say if we trust Him to the end." (Gerald Flurry, The Last Hour, 2004, 2007, Chapter 5, p. 54.)
Words fail me.
Food for thought...What percent of LCG is elderly? If the elderly are demon possessed then why are the the elderly LCG members put up on such a high pedestal? Beyond that, what percentage of the LCG ministry is elderly? Mr Meredith is rumored to have the onset of dementia and quite frankly I believe it watching some of his sermons the past few years. What does that say about him?
And yes I am an LCG member and yes I do question and I do think about these things. And no I do not think any of this is okay.
It's a good thing the lake of fire will envelop the whole earth, otherwise there might not be room for these sorts of people.
"Bumped this back up because some LCG members are still in denial."
You're going to have to keep bumping this up for a loooong time to come!
It is good to see that some of the LCG members are open-minded, aware of the events, and considering the implications. That actually goes against so many of the past stereotypes, in fact some stereotypes in which I myself was a participant while I was with WCG. Things would happen that would normally raise red flags, and I'd just take the doctrines, and the teachings on authority, and shut any misgivings out before they could take root. And, I believe that many who post on the blogs and forums are familiar with that overall approach, which is why we become concerned for people whom we feel could be seriously victimized.
But, I'd say kudos to the open-minded, and keep up the good work! One of the elements of "proving all things" involves questioning authority and holding it accountable. That is something each of us must do for ourselves, and on a continuing basis. Nobody can do it for us.
BB
All the Armstrongist churches of God need to issue smart phones to all of their members with an app that tracks them 24 by 7 to insure the church knows exactly where they are at all times and kind of know what they are doing.
This will resolve this sort of problem -- the LCG would have known instantly where their "employee" was and whether he was in the nursing home or not.
We now have the technology to enforce slavery in a civilized sort of way.
Texted couple locals I knew but no go lol
I hope the LCG member mentioned by 6:03 isn't going to get in trouble now. It has been mentioned that LCG monitors this site. I could see her suffering at the hands of McNair for telling this story (which really paints him in an awful light). McNair friend or not it would have been better to have not named her.
I could see her suffering at the hands of McNair for telling this story (which really paints him in an awful light). McNair friend or not it would have been better to have not named her.
Don't worry about her. Her husband is a big tither. Meredith won't let McNair treat a major tither too harshly.
Annon 1:12 your concern for "dawn" would be warranted in normal circumstances but this is LCG so if she's friends with McNair then she will be just fine. Favoritism prevails. Different rules apply to different people. In my opinion, the fact that this person is "friends" with McNair and Ceceilka speaks volumes and not in a positive way.
No2HWA -
I just found this link (http://www.servantsnews.com/docs/merlet02.htm) next to some comments I was reading and I was practically freaking out as I read it!!! I had never been to your site before Mr. Meredith drew my attention to it and I most certainly had never seen this letter written to him from Mr. Armstrong. It speaks volumes! I have only been in LCG for 11 years so I don't "worship" Mr. Armstrong like I have seen so many of the older WCG members appear to do. I am less familiar with the history of all this stuff because I didn't go through the split or any of that other stuff.
Mr. Armstrong hit the nail right on the head in this letter to Mr. Meredith. EVERY word he wrote about him then is even more true today!
I read the Leona McNair lawsuit write up about Mr. Meredith and then this letter and it really paints a picture of what kind of man is leading my church! I am having a hard time digesting all of this. Obviously, it can't be denied because it is factually recorded in written documents. It is so much to process at once!
I have personally seen ALL the character traits shinning brightly in Mr. Meredith. I am, myself, far from perfect and a sinner so I am not judging him. However, I am not the one claiming to be the head of the "purest most unified church ever in the history of time". I, myself, am not "casting people to Satan" for not agreeing with me on every minor detail or for not tithing or whatever.
I know there are people like me who have never seen this letter from Mr. Armstrong. Maybe you should post it in the blog feed.
Thank you for helping me come out of a blinded fog. I feel like my brain has been off for an entire decade.
All I can say right now is WOW. What an eye-opener.
What is the current status on Mr Meredith's health ? Just received notice last month in LCG's news that Richard Ames is the next successor, but they notified "The Journal" in November last year, seem's they take their time to inform members.
Meredith's health is fair for an 85 year old who's already had a pretty serious stroke. He tires easily and needs help. He walks, or should I say, shuffles along, using a cane. One or two men help him up the steps to the stage where his desk sits to give sermons. He hasn't been able to drive for a few years now. One of his son's has moved in with h to help at home. It looks like he's one step away from a major fall or another stroke. But who knows, I thought his death was imminent years ago. Maybe being so full of piss n vinegar keeps him alive against the odds.
I wonder if McNair will tell people not to visit Meredith when they put him in a nursing home (which should be anytime now)?
If elderly dementia patients have demons we wouldn't want to expose LCG members unduly!
Comment was made that: "...It is his (Rod McNair's) belief that demons often inhabit the elderly. LCG recommends that its members stay away from people with mental illness and now they have added to that, the elderly..."
What about the spirit of lust and envy that is driving Rod McNair and the entire ministry of the Living Group to one degree or another? Has any of their ministry elaborated on James 4:5? It is speaking about them, amongst others, especially if they consider themselves to be a part Christians, any part of God's Church!
"Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth IN US lusteth to envy?" James 4:5
Why won't their ministry discuss James 4:5, which surely includes them?
The Apostle Paul warned about a wannabee, look-a-like, ministry of tares:
2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Those verses aren't speaking just about popes, and religious leaders of this present evil world. It is speaking about the counterfeit ministries of Christ, but they are exposing themselves........by their works........as the original post shows and as commented on by others.
Jesus Christ said we were to love our enemies. He loved the scribes and Pharisees of His day! Hard to believe, isn't it? But Jesus Christ did NOT love was inside of them, what was driving them to produce evil works. Here is one proof of that, because He would have no problem saying the following to the Living Group and xcogs:
Matthew 23:13 "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides..."
You could add the ministry of the Living Group right alongside those scribes and Pharisees, but who was Jesus Christ actually addressing?
John
P.S.
Sure, go ahead and add the ministry of the Living Group to them scribes and Pharisees, but who was Jesus Christ actually addressing? Read on:
Matthew 23:33 "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation."
It is obvious that the scribes and Pharisees and the ministry of the Living Group were not alive when Abel's blood was shed or were alive to have anything to do with slaying Zacharias, but a generation of beings was alive then, alive during Jesus' day and still alive today. It is a generation of Satan and his evil angels (Matthew 25:41) that drive those in the ministry to do what they do, but a great last day is coming when they that generation will be taken (2 Peter 2:12) and destroyed (Matthew 25:46). Jesus was addressing them vile, evil, spirits.
Unless, and until, the Living Group ministry wakes us to these facts, and God grants them repentance, their fruits, their works, will continue to be that of blaming and judging others. Other fruits/works displayed by them are indicated in places like Romans 1:29-31, Galatians 5:15-21, Ephesians 2:2, etc.
Based upon scriptures what is going on with the Living Group ministries' relationship's to other human beings (including those within Living group as followers of Rod Meredith), especially regarding evils, should not be such a surprise to any of us......
John
"Annon 1:12 your concern for "dawn" would be warranted in normal circumstances but this is LCG so if she's friends with McNair then she will be just fine. Favoritism prevails. Different rules apply to different people. In my opinion, the fact that this person is "friends" with McNair and Ceceilka speaks volumes and not in a positive way.
May 14, 2015 at 6:58 PM"
I'm just seeingi this for the 1st time and I'm rotflol. Dawn Rothenbacher started this mess - McNair believed it - no correction was ever made once they found out this person really HAD quit their job and they perpetuated the rumor to help justify their harsh actions. If anything Dawn has climbed the social ladder just a bit more by throwing one of her friends under the bus to get a big step up. LCG lives a snitch even if the information isn't true! LCG has taught that the mentally ill are often demon possessed for years so I guess that's always included those with dementia.
Ignorance rules these people. Can we really be that surprised?
Anybody with a pair of eyes can see what's going on at LCG Charlotte.
Rod Meredith is running a family business. If you aren't family, you are nothing more than a pawn to be used and abused and thrown away. Look what happened to LCG minister Charles Ogwyn, son of John Ogwyn. Charles is a successful Internet marketing professional who was making good money as an Internet expert before LCG hired him. When Rod appointed David Meredith to direct LCG social media, Charles explained to Rod why this was a bad idea, and why many of David's ideas were misguided and unhelpful.
Did Rod trust the beloved minister and successful professional? Are you kidding? He fired Charles and gave David more power. Now Charles is back to making good money, and David is embarrassing his Daddy by staying in his LCG job despite personal conduct that would get any ordinary member thrown out of the church.
Because Rod is running a family business, ambitious brethren know that if they aren't wealthy the path to advancement is to kiss up to the Meredith family. It's the Church of God Mafia. You can't advance in LCG and remain Christian. In LCG, the time will come when you have to choose between the Church of God and the Church of Rod. LCG's HQ ministers have made their choice.
Charles Ogwyn did not get fired from LCG. He resigned. There is a difference. Yes, he resigned because he was sick of Mr. Meredith always taking the inexperienced and unknowledgeable word of Dave Meredith over his expert opinion but he was not fired. He quit because of his self respect and professionalism. How he remains in LCG after obtaining insight into how it works at headquarters remains a mystery.
I'm pretty sure the Bible says not to pay/work your manservant, your maidservant or the man on the moon on God's Sabbath day. No matter what their excuse is, how is LCG getting around this?
RCM expects you to tithe on every dollar made and your tithe records are under the microscope but he's allowed to openly break one of the Commandments and everybody sits back and swallows it because he is their leader?!
Should people do what God says or what Rod says? In LCG I think the answer is obvious.
I would love to see a local TV journalist walk up to the church leadership, perhaps in the parking lot, and ask them if it is true that they believe that elderly people in assisted living/nursing homes are likely to be demon possessed. The leadership needs to be exposed on TV. They need to embarrass themselves. The bullies need to be confronted. Since members can't do it . . . others should.
People allow their cult leaders to be far too intrusive, often in the guise of "having the right attitude". Unless a member works in a whorehouse, has a career in the sale of street pharmaceuticals, or is a member of the Mafia, the ministry has no damned business butting in.
I wonder if the Meredith and McNair kids spent a couple years cleaning toilets or pulling weeds like freshman and sophomore Embarrassing College students always did.
BB
If Ogwyn was so successful in his web business why did he give it up and go into the ministry in LCG? Pressure to follow in dads footsteps? Guess it depends on what one calls "success" because he didn't seem to do anything with their web operations, except for the tomorrowsworld.org bumper stickers. Rumor was that he quit showing up at the office and would disappear for days or weeks at a time. Whatever he's up to now, I hope he's at peace.
How can you really validate if this is what Rod McNair has said and has actually done. I am a member, but I may be sending my tithes to other organizations that don't believe elderly people have demons. My mom had dementia, but she definitely didn't have a demon. I am hoping to see her in the resurrection, and pray that God gives me the courage and faith to stay close to Him so I can be there. Thank you for your candor.
My Mum suffered two strokes and is in an elderly nursing home, she cannot walk very far now or bathe herself. The people that dedicate themselves to this kind of work (nurses, care givers) should be very highly elevated and honoured, as I do not know how many families would cope without them. I visit Mum when I can, I live interstate, can't see her regularly, there are some dementia patients there, one attached Mum but the nurses came running quickly to help her. I am sure those of us over 50 will soon reach the time when we will need the services of these great individuals. I worked as an office worker for many years, and believe me there is much worse going on there, adultery, drunken Xmas parties, homosexuality, theft, jealousies, backstabbing, maybe we should all quit our jobs, I am sure the demon's were floating around.
John 15-17; I don not ask You to take them out of the world. but the keep them from the evil one. "Sanctify then in the truth"
BB, you wrote: “...People allow their cult leaders to be far too intrusive, often in the guise of "having the right attitude". Unless a member works in a whorehouse, has a career in the sale of street pharmaceuticals, or is a member of the Mafia, the ministry has no damned business butting in...”
Once upon a time, Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong agreed with what you just wrote there. When? How so?
Within the 1957 Good News magazine Article titled “Christ Did Put Authority and RULE in His Church!”, Herbert W. Armstrong on page 23 basically told his “little helpers,” hirelings supporting him, to keep their noses out of the private lives of the members of what he considered to be God’s Church.
{{...Does God's RULE in His Church give ministers authority to intervene even in affairs of the personal life of members? The answer is, YES, but of course rarely, and only in extreme cases where this is necessary. Paul said, "this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should they eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies." (II Thes. 3: I0-1 I ). That is a command that the Church is to command such to work, and if they do not, to take from them all aid given by the Church to help feed them.
God's ministers are required to use wisdom and judgment, and they are never going to interfere in private lives unless there is a BIBLE reason...}}
History has shown over and over again that many (most?) of the hirelings did their own things, preached their own thoughts and opinions, and theories and did the opposite of what Mr. Armstrong said. They so often stuck their noses where they didn’t belong and created one stench after another...for decades.
Anything new? That history continues today via the “little helpers” in the xcogs......
John
Annon7:42 this story has been confirmed by a multitude of people so it's validity isn't in question.
If I may suggest that you just ask Mr. McNair or whomever your local minister is, if he believes that a large number of people with mental illness (including dementia) are possessed by demons. I'm sure the answer will be yes because most ministers in LCG share McNair's sentiment. Although most would probably not have the cold-hearted arrogance to suggest that a member not work in nursing homes to avoid evil spirits.
Is there proof of all these allegations, if we can't accept these ministers words are we blindly going to accept yours
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