Bravo to the state case worker that recognized the abuse happening in the Philadelphia Church of God home. Mental abuse is just as damaging as they physical abuse.
From Exit and Support:
August 21, 2015
I want to give as little information as possible to shield identities, but I thought readers of this site might be interested in knowing that the teenage daughter of a PCG family that has faithfully followed the "no contact" rule for more than eight years has been taken from them by her state and placed in a foster home. Her caseworker has initiated paperwork to have her placed with my family, from which she has been cut off for about a decade. The PCG said for years she could have no contact with us. Now the state says she can have no contact with them. I would appreciate prayers on our behalf by the readers of this site. --[name withheld]
18 comments:
Awesome! I am so glad that our civilization has evolved to the point where the state is there for these kids! The horrors of growing up in an ACOG never really go away. Counselling and therapy help lessen problems and assist towards normalcy, but it would be better to elliminate exposure as soon as the problem is identified.
BB
yeah, the foster care system really has a stellar record...
The person in question seems to have a relative waiting to take care of her, so she won't be staying with an unrelated foster family. I hate the idea of a government entity taking someone's child under almost any circumstances but it may be the better course of action in this case.
Remarkable. Somebody stepped up. Let's hope this gives more people the courage to report the "no contact" abuse to state agencies. Flurry deserves to be called out for this one, big time.
it is not merely an issue of the government taking custody: there is a lot of child abuse in the foster care system, and her being a teenaged girl puts her at great risk;: also she will become an adult soon and will be abandoned by that system, and estranged from an real family...
Glad someone intervened even if not ideal.
Keep in mind...no matter how the fools of theology and religion go about running their empires, protecting their turf and keeping their narcissistic supply, all speaking the same thing and financial streams flowing, it is the Bible itself that gives excuse for these ignorant perspectives.
Also, the root of the problem of being "called", "chosen", "a peculiar people", "a people of his own", "the true church", "called out" and all other categories of specialness and exclusivity in being the apple of a god's eye, is the Bible that orders these actions against the unchosen, not special, untrue, not called and not of me folk.
It is not men misunderstanding, misinterpreting or mispeaking the Bible. It is the words of the Bible that lead to all these whacky behaviors, practices and circumstances.
I got a note this week from a man who told me with righteous words how he had to "Mark" his own family... nice....
Also, groups trying to keep pure by putting out the sinners will end up putting themselves out of business if they are honest
Luke 14:26
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate (IT DOESN'T MEAN "LOVE LESS BY COMPARISON) his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he CANNOT be my disciple.
Romans 16:17
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; AVOID THEM.
1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing to you NOT TO ASSOCIATE with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—NOT EVEN TO EAT WITH SUCH A ONE.
2 John 1:10 ESV
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, DO NOT RECEIVE him into your house or give him any greeting,
Titus 3:9-11 ESV
..... As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, HAVE NOTHING MORE TO DO WITH HIM, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
2 John 1:11
For whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
1 Corinthians 5:1-13 (CHURCH COUNSELING AND ENCOURAGEMENT AT ITS BEST)
...... Let him who has done this be removed from among you. For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. ...
2 Thessalonians 3:14
If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have NOTHING to do with him, that he may be ashamed.
Matthew 10:12-15
As you enter the house, greet it. And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is NOT WORTHY, let your peace return to you. And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.
2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you KEEP AWAY FROM any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.
Psalm 139:21
Do I not hate those who hate you, O Lord? And do I not loathe those who rise up against you?
Matthew 10:37
Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
I'd like to thank those who have rightly pointed out that children who are taken from their families, if they are placed into the foster care system, may suffer some things that somehow seem even worse than what is suffered as part of everyday life being raised in an Armstrongite family.
Let's face it, folks. The people in ACOGs are there because they have demonstrated that they react in abnormally heightened ways to an external and irrational source of fear. Unless somehow, some possible consequence causes them greater fear than the level of arbitrary fear from their church, they will not amend their behavior. Sadly, because they learn "selfish salvation" in their church, probably a high percentage of the members would choose the wrong side of the ultimatum. After all, these are the people who have embraced the deep Pavlovian conditioning that warps them to believe that they should leave certain of their children at the mall rather than have them disrupt "God's" church.
As cruel as it seems, there need to be severe, punitive consequences for the most whacked out and deviant practices which are taught by these charlatans. It needs to go way beyond a little inconvenience, because fear is the only thing they really understand and interpret as a motivator. It is the sole basis of their faith.
BB
Thank you Dennis for that rundown of what the Bible says on this topic. It sure is a complicated book full of contradictions, how can anyone expect to base their lives on it if they take it literally. I remember there is another scripture which says something like I am come to turn the hearts of the children to the father, and the father to the children. I do prefer that one.
I have some people in my family who are Jehovah Witnesses and they follow similar policies. If you have never been in their church they can still talk to you with the hopes of converting you, but they really are not very close. But if you were in the church and left, then you are off-limits. I think their beliefs are in many ways worse than WCG, but they (Jehovahs) show no sign of collapsing. I am wondering what their secrets are? Perhaps their leaders are not such hypocrites.
DennisCDiehl said...
It is not men misunderstanding, misinterpreting or mispeaking the Bible. It is the words of the Bible that lead to all these whacky behaviors, practices and circumstances. [In the PCG, it IS people misunderstanding, misinterpreting or misspeaking the Bible that leads to all these whacky behaviors, practices and circumstances.]
Romans 16:17
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; AVOID THEM. [Unfortunately, PCG members went along with all of Gerald Flurry's “new revelation” divisions and obstacles contrary to what HWA had taught instead of avoiding him.]
1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing to you NOT TO ASSOCIATE with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—NOT EVEN TO EAT WITH SUCH A ONE. [In the PCG, any such people can and do simply complain to the local leaders and have them quickly kick out and get rid of anyone who does not go out with them and along with their perverse and immoral agendas. The PCG does the exact, diametric opposite of what the Bible says to do.]
Titus 3:9-11 ESV
..... As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, HAVE NOTHING MORE TO DO WITH HIM, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned. [This is so true. Gerald Flurry really is warped and sinful and cannot be fixed by any amount of talk anyway. People really should have nothing more to do with him.]
1 Corinthians 5:1-13 (CHURCH COUNSELING AND ENCOURAGEMENT AT ITS BEST)
...... Let him who has done this be removed from among you. For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. ... [This was written concerning some real motherfucker in the church at Corinth. For church counselling and discouragement at its worst, check out the PCG. Too bad that they do not do this to the old sex maniacs, sex perverts, and predators in the PCG instead of actually supporting their lifelong bad habits by trying to supply them with younger people for their own selfish pleasure.]
The foster care system really has a better record than the COG parents do!!!
I agree with Dennis. Not only is the bible used to justify child abuse it is used to abuse everyone who belong to any religion in general. The words of the hymn amazing grace says it well. Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saves a WRETCH like me. How can anyone have a positive self image if they think of themselves as a WRETCH. Yet this is what Christianity teaches that we are WRETCHES that need to be saved from our negative state of just being human even apart from our actions.
5:37, "wretch" fits HWA's good old "worthless hunk of burned-out junk unworthy to throw on the junk pile" language. Of course, if that's what HWA was, imagine what all the rank-and-file members were.
Worthless. Junk. Unworthy. Barnabas, he wasn't.
Ed said...
“I agree with Dennis. Not only is the bible used to justify child abuse it is used to abuse everyone who belong to any religion in general. The words of the hymn amazing grace says it well. Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saves a WRETCH like me. How can anyone have a positive self image if they think of themselves as a WRETCH. Yet this is what Christianity teaches that we are WRETCHES that need to be saved from our negative state of just being human even apart from our actions.”
Yes, the Bible does get MISused to justify child abuse and all sorts of other bad behavior. However, the problem is not so much with the Bible itself as with the MISusing of it by a seemingly endless supply of ignorant and wicked people. Just look at how the Catholic church and its Protestant daughter churches have always hated, rejected, and twisted what the Bible says. Their entire history has been one of rejecting the commandments of God in order to keep their own traditions of ignorant and wicked men and women.
The Sunday-keeping Protestants who sing that Amazing Grace song like to think that they are saved IN their ignorance and sin, rather than saved FROM their ignorance and sin. They definitely do want to be saved IN their ignorance and sin, and certainly do not want to be saved FROM their ignorance and sin.
Herbert W. Armstrong tried to get away from what he considered to be the uninspired and unscriptural words of Protestant hymns, and got his youngest brother Dwight Armstrong to try to put into English and to music the songs from the book of Psalms in the Bible to form the Worldwide Church of God's songbook called The Bible Hymnal.
As for Gerald Flurry and his PCG impostor cult, they are just doing what Satan sent them to do: To twist and pervert everything HWA ever taught, and (even more importantly) to twist and pervert everything God ever said. The diabolical plan was to make it look like all the really perverse, depraved, cruel, and unjust behavior in the PCG came from HWA, and from the Bible, and ultimately from God, to try to disguise the fact that the true source of all the evil in the PCG was Satan and his servant Gerald Flurry. Whenever Gerald Flurry comes up with some more perverse “new revelation” that totally changes what HWA had taught in the WCG, little Gerald tries to gain the sympathy of his followers by telling them that he is going to be viciously “attacked” just for teaching this wonderful “new truth.” This is intended to prevent anyone from ever pointing out that Gerald Flurry's “new revelation” is totally different from what HWA had taught in the WCG. Simply pointing out the fact that Gerald Flurry is a false prophet who is viciously attacking the church people with his “new revelation” that he said has “flooded” the PCG gets painted as an “attack.” Satan and Gerald are really sneaky and deceitful.
12:06, while I am no defender of Six-Pack Flurry, you seem to be implying that getting away from what HWA taught in the WCG is a bad thing.
You silly, silly person. Are you not aware that we regular readers and commenters here are no admirers of HWA's incest? Of his dictatorial style of management? Of his poor scholarship? Of his enabling of his son's adultery for years, until it became to well-known to hide? Of his responsibility for the unnecessary deaths of countless followers his no-doctors/no-medicine teachings? Of his heartless destroying of countless marriages due to his insipid and cruel divorce-and-remarriage policy? Of his blatant tactics of squeezing money out of his followers through guilt and manipulation? And so on, and so on....
Little difference, mind you, between that and the Catholic totalitarians you belittle. Apples and oranges, that's all it is.
Anon said: "Yes, the Bible does get MISused to justify child abuse and all sorts of other bad behavior. However, the problem is not so much with the Bible itself as with the MISusing of it by a seemingly endless supply of ignorant and wicked people."
While I appreciate your sincerity and understand the apologetics used, the Bible is the problem in what it actually says. You can't misunderstand or lighten these teachings.
Proverbs 13:24, 19:18, 22:15, 23:13-14 & 29:15 God commands repeatedly that you beat your children. That "spare the rod and spoil the child" thing has messed up lots of church kids in many churches.
Frankly, it's first humans abuse to put beautiful trees, pleasant to look at etc, in the center of a garden and then dare them to take of the fruit and see what happens to them. But again, this is a tale with other purposes than the ones assigned by HWA and the COG. HWA knew NOTHING about why the Deity in the tale told Adam and Eve not to take from either tree. They were "godfood" trees and both knowing "good from evil" and having eternal life was NOT for humans. Thus the member of the Council of the gods" dismay over "we have to stop them lest they eat of the tree of life and live forever!!!" That's for US!
next...
Genesis 22:9 & 10 “And they came to the place which God had told him of and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.”
This whole tale is pure child abuse and would end one up in prison today along with a mentally PTSD'd child. I rather doubt Isaac wanted to ever again go camping with Dad. On the other hand, I doubt it really happened in the first place but it is a story most get swoozy over because of Abraham's obedience. He actually presents medically as a very sick man who heard voices in his head telling him to do horrible things for "God". Delusional schizophenia...common to "God haunted" types.
"Just Lot" as he his called in Hebrews 11 offered his virgin daughters to a crowd of men "to do with as you please" as long as they did not harm his guests whom they wanted to humiliate as a warning to them not to be spies for some other city . The Sodom story is a hospitality tale not a gay city story but the kids got offered to the wolves. That's plain and clear abuse of this "Hero of faith." pffft.....
While Jesus may "suffer the little children to come unto me" in the Gospels, Revelation Jesus is a killer of children and it's obvious neither author had heard of the other.
PS "Satan did it" doesn't wash. Also a construct by priestly writers.
And let's not forget this loving parent. When the "Spirit of the Lord" calls, you can end up quite sorry you listened. Lesson: If you speak rashly, man up and apologize, take the embarrassing hit and don't burn your daughter to death. "Now I have to do it" is delusional thinking and mental illness too. Any Deity, in such a story, could have said, "No no...I do the defeating. You just love and raise your beautiful daughter. I wonder what Mrs. Abraham, Lot and Jepthah said to their hubbies at dinner that evening???
Jephthah Burns His Daughter
"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)
All wicked Bible child abuse and all customary for the culture soaking in ignorance and pious conviction based on marginal information.
And, then there are the parables of the prodigal son, and the good shepherd who is unwilling to lose a single one of his sheep. An understanding of dispensations might do wonders for these seeming conflicts.
Jephthah, if he lived as our contemporary, would probably be the leader of an outlaw motorcycle club. He was somewhat of an outcast, living on the fringes of the Israelite civilization, a tough guy, (or warrior in the parlance of his own times) to whom people who thought themselves defenseless had turned in their time of need. He wasn't someone to whom fate and life had been kind. He probably saw himself as being good-hearted, but was deeply flawed, and the equations of life seem to have presented themselves to him in distorted ways. The sub plot of the major story was a personal tale of Jephthah's chance at redemption, and the conclusion, probably like the rest of his life, ends up being bittersweet. The daughter, and Dennis has provided the unpronounceable symbol for her name (kind of like Prince) behaves not as someone raised by Jephthah, but as if she had actually been raised by Abraham. Unfortunately, there was no last minute ram in the thicket in this story. There seems to be a marked difference between the karma in Abraham's life, and the karma in Jephthah's. Somewhere in there, there is a lesson, but it's not the one we had been taught.
BB
The "Lord" seems to also have had dispesational issues with himself
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