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Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
When is it Proper to Call A 23 Yearl "Mr" in the COG?
9 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I don't expect any of you spiritual deviates here to remember this from the Bible but we are REQUIRED to honor those over us who teach and admonish us. It doesn't matter if they are 19, 23, or 43.
"And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you"
Funny some think you should honor some 23 year old snot nose brat who was bouncing ball to ball in his old man when you were out busting your ass to make a living before he was born. The poster 'August 10, 2015 at 12:42 PM' has a slave mentality.
Especially for those of us who went to AC and knew what those 23 year olds were like, and how much experience of life they had.
My dad was middle aged and a WWII veteran who had seen the Nazi death camps and being in the evacuation of Dunkirk. He told me during that period the only good thing was all of women he met, who were lonely because their own men were dead or fighting somewhere else. Then he came back home and married and started a family and built a house right away. I was just a child but I cringed when I heard him calling someone only a few years old than me "Mr" . But anonymous 2:28 you are right, they are old Misters now.
@12:42 Nowhere in this post say anything about said 23 year old being over anyone or teaching anyone, simply that it is a 23 year old in a suit. Personally I don't see an issue with it but I also was raised to have respect for EVERYONE.
Here it is the idiocy in a nutshell as heard in a sermon: "Brethren we are going to talk about Mr. Armstrong, Mr. Paul...opps, hahaha, I mean Paul and James and Jesus..."
When I was an Embarrassing College student, we believed the Germans were coming about two years after our class would graduate. So, there was a sense of urgency about many things. Most of the students who entered AC during that era deliberately attempted to shed youth trends, and to artificially age themselves so that they could be credible voices to carry the Armstrong message, vision, and pattern of authority into the field, if chosen. Most serious students deliberately cultivated the infamous "U.A.P." (Universal Ambassador Personality).
If we examine another authoritarian culture, that of peace officers, we become acquainted with the behavioral patterns of rookie cops. Most of them are still wet behind the ears, and must be reigned in by veteran officers until they learn the ropes. They are often heavy -handed, and some use excessive force. They are fresh out of the academy, and have yet to accumulate the experience which will eventually make most of them effective cops. Some of the young 23 year old AC grads who went into the field actually eventually grew into the bogus authority and enforcement responsibilities they were given. The activities of many others have been written up on the Hall of Shame page over at the Painful Truth web site. The difference between these dudes and police officers is that the culture of Armstrongism was geared to always erring on the side of authority. The words "negotiation" and "compromise" are not part of the Armstrong lexicon.
Because we now know that there was no spiritual enlightenment inherent in Armstrongism, only compliance to approved behavioral patterns and attitudes, in retrospect, reverence for 22-23 year olds, and calling them "Mr." now seems silly. But, I can tell you that back in the day, even AC students who had somewhat crappy reputations on campus were fawned over and their opinions eagerly sought when attending or visiting churches in "the field". There was a completely different atmosphere prior to the Disappointment of 1975, and the exposure of GTA's moral failure.
Anonymous 8/10 @ 12:42, perhaps you would be advised to revisit your own Bible. Christ said that anyone who desired to be a leader among his followers should do so in the capacity of a servant - not lording it over others (Matthew 20:20-28 and Mark 10:35-45). Although Timothy was apparently a young man, Paul instructed him that a bishop should be: someone who is in a stable marriage, a father who has demonstrated his ability to manage his own children well, someone who is not a recent convert to the faith and a person who has established a good reputation within the community at large (I Timothy 3:1-7). He went on to tell Timothy "Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a father, and the younger men as brethren; the elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters" (I Timothy 5:1-2). The Greek word "presbyteros" implies age. By the way, I can't find a single instance in the New Testament where anyone was instructed to establish a school to train ministers, young or old. Instead, I find all kinds of evidence that ministers were chosen based on their character and record of service to the church.
Honor and respect goes both ways. The Bible says we should honor one another. Exactly how we do this depends on the culture that we live in. It is silly to call a young person "Mr" or "Sir" when you are much older. There are many ways to show respect.
9 comments:
I don't expect any of you spiritual deviates here to remember this from the Bible but we are REQUIRED to honor those over us who teach and admonish us. It doesn't matter if they are 19, 23, or 43.
"And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you"
It's a completely silly pretension, but given the demographic trends of Armstrongism it'll be a moot point it's not already. What 23 year olds?
Funny some think you should honor some 23 year old snot nose brat who was bouncing ball to ball in his old man when you were out busting your ass to make a living before he was born. The poster 'August 10, 2015 at 12:42 PM' has a slave mentality.
Especially for those of us who went to AC and knew what those 23 year olds were like, and how much experience of life they had.
My dad was middle aged and a WWII veteran who had seen the Nazi death camps and being in the evacuation of Dunkirk. He told me during that period the only good thing was all of women he met, who were lonely because their own men were dead or fighting somewhere else. Then he came back home and married and started a family and built a house right away. I was just a child but I cringed when I heard him calling someone only a few years old than me "Mr" .
But anonymous 2:28 you are right, they are old Misters now.
@12:42 Nowhere in this post say anything about said 23 year old being over anyone or teaching anyone, simply that it is a 23 year old in a suit. Personally I don't see an issue with it but I also was raised to have respect for EVERYONE.
Here it is the idiocy in a nutshell as heard in a sermon:
"Brethren we are going to talk about Mr. Armstrong, Mr. Paul...opps, hahaha, I mean Paul and James and Jesus..."
When I was an Embarrassing College student, we believed the Germans were coming about two years after our class would graduate. So, there was a sense of urgency about many things. Most of the students who entered AC during that era deliberately attempted to shed youth trends, and to artificially age themselves so that they could be credible voices to carry the Armstrong message, vision, and pattern of authority into the field, if chosen. Most serious students deliberately cultivated the infamous "U.A.P." (Universal Ambassador Personality).
If we examine another authoritarian culture, that of peace officers, we become acquainted with the behavioral patterns of rookie cops. Most of them are still wet behind the ears, and must be reigned in by veteran officers until they learn the ropes. They are often heavy -handed, and some use excessive force. They are fresh out of the academy, and have yet to accumulate the experience which will eventually make most of them effective cops. Some of the young 23 year old AC grads who went into the field actually eventually grew into the bogus authority and enforcement responsibilities they were given. The activities of many others have been written up on the Hall of Shame page over at the Painful Truth web site. The difference between these dudes and police officers is that the culture of Armstrongism was geared to always erring on the side of authority. The words "negotiation" and "compromise" are not part of the Armstrong lexicon.
Because we now know that there was no spiritual enlightenment inherent in Armstrongism, only compliance to approved behavioral patterns and attitudes, in retrospect, reverence for 22-23 year olds, and calling them "Mr." now seems silly. But, I can tell you that back in the day, even AC students who had somewhat crappy reputations on campus were fawned over and their opinions eagerly sought when attending or visiting churches in "the field". There was a completely different atmosphere prior to the Disappointment of 1975, and the exposure of GTA's moral failure.
BB
Anonymous 8/10 @ 12:42, perhaps you would be advised to revisit your own Bible. Christ said that anyone who desired to be a leader among his followers should do so in the capacity of a servant - not lording it over others (Matthew 20:20-28 and Mark 10:35-45). Although Timothy was apparently a young man, Paul instructed him that a bishop should be: someone who is in a stable marriage, a father who has demonstrated his ability to manage his own children well, someone who is not a recent convert to the faith and a person who has established a good reputation within the community at large (I Timothy 3:1-7). He went on to tell Timothy "Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a father, and the younger men as brethren; the elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters" (I Timothy 5:1-2). The Greek word "presbyteros" implies age. By the way, I can't find a single instance in the New Testament where anyone was instructed to establish a school to train ministers, young or old. Instead, I find all kinds of evidence that ministers were chosen based on their character and record of service to the church.
Honor and respect goes both ways. The Bible says we should honor one another. Exactly how we do this depends on the culture that we live in. It is silly to call a young person "Mr" or "Sir" when you are much older. There are many ways to show respect.
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