Monday, September 5, 2016

Who Is Really Being Persecuted? Church Leaders or Well Meaning Members?

For the 30 some years I worked in Pasadena I saw hundreds and hundreds of kooks show up at HQ claiming they were Elijah's, Elisha's, Joshua's, the Two Witnesses, prophets, people filled with prophetic knowledge, people who dreamed dreams that God had appointed them to reform the church, people who claimed they were Satan, that the mantle of Herbert Armstrong had been passed on to them, and many, many more whack jobs.  Every single one of them were lairs.

Then the church ruptured into countless heretical splinter personality cults that were far more corrupt than anything WCG had ever been.  We have seen the Flurry, Pack and Meredith all claim that God had personally spoken to them to restore the faith once delivered.  No one was more qualified to do that job than they were.  Each one had some creature they called god telling them that they were especial and called out.  They were not.  We all have seen the corrupt fruit that these "so called" ministers have produced over the last two decades while their new churches were under their control.  Before that we saw the worthless fruit of the labors for decades earlier.

Even those that have ungodly nightmares now seem to think they are set apart.

False prophet and legalistic spiritual abuser, Bob Thiel still claims that because he had a nightmare/dream/hallucination, that his god now has now placed his mantle upon him to do some kind of amazing work.

He bitterly writes:
Consider that furthermore more in his latest rant against me, Gary Leonard falsely asserted that I and a woman from New Zealand (who I did not know) had nightmares. No, we had dreams
The self-appointed  false prophet. who was never ordained as a minister in the Living Church of God. then goes on to quote scripture to support his hallucinations.  Church of God ministers somehow think that buy posting countless scriptures that they intern justify their  beliefs.  It never has and they never  will.
Apparently Gary Leonard does not believe that God uses dreams, even though the Bible says God does (Genesis 20:3-7, 28:10-17, 31:10-13, 31:24, 37:5-10, 40:5-18, 41:1-32; Numbers 12:6; Judges 7:13-15; 1 Kings 3:5-15; Daniel 2:3-45, 4:4-27, 7:1-28; Matthew 1:20-25, 2:12, 2:13, 2:19, 2:22; Acts 16:9; see also Dreams, the Bible, the Radio Church of God, and the Continuing Church of God).
I can state for a fact that God never inspired any dream telling Thiel to start his own personality cult.  His own mind told him that he deserved to be a leader.   Even Rod Meredith knew Thiel was unfit to be a minister.

The self-appointed false prophet is also very unhappy at being referred to as "Almost Arrested."
Furthermore, he continues to refer to refer to me with statements like “Almost Arrested” to imply I am some type of criminal, without bothering to explain that I was almost arrested because I told government authorities that I would observe the biblical Day of Atonement  (details of this are in my post, ‘Banned by HWA’ continues to make false assertions–Matthew 13:19-21?, that Gary Leonard responded to, though he did not bother to mention the truth about this).

If he had bothered to check he would have seen the reason that so many call him "almost arrested."  had occurred many, many posts ago.   Even though he claims above that he almost was.

The tactics of Thiel, Flurry, Malm, Pack and most other COG leaders is to combine error with fact, truth with imaginative thinking,  proof-texting instead of well reasoned scriptural understanding.  They are sneaky an beguiling, just like Satan in the Garden.

He then continues on that those that have blogs, web sites, have written books, that speak out publicly at the abuse in the Church of God are guilty of stealing people's crowns and their chance to make it into the kingdom.
Sadly, various ones have let the anti-COG people “take their crown”–did not “endure to the end” as they should have. They allowed people once considered to be brothers to betray them spiritually. 
For decades the spiritual lives of church members have been raped and pillaged by unsound ministers  who betrayed them spiritually.  They have every right to walk away from Armstrongism and learn sound scriptural reasoning.  Tens of thousands of former church members have done just that!  They have been healed from the abuse.  They live truly fruitful lives and understand God better than they ever have.  Sure many have also left faith behind, but that no more makes them evil or unworthy.  After the crap that the church has pulled on them, they have every right to do such a thing!

True spiritual knowledge and a grounded spiritual life cannot be found in the Continuing Church of God no matter how much Thiel pontificates or  how special he thinks he is.  Salvation will never be found in the Continuing Church of God.  Redemptive life lies outside its doors, if they would only dare to look,  as they chuck Thiel's booklets and magazines in the bin.

He imagines himself to be equals to Jesus and the apostles and that he is being persecuted as they were.  Talk about a steaming pile of bullshit!
Some do not seem to understand that Jesus and the apostles faced intense criticism and false assertions–and that those who really want to follow Him will be subject to it as well (John 15:18-25).
There is NOTHING about Thiel that even compares to ANYTHING the Apostles or Jesus ever said or did.  According to scripture they were persecuted for speaking truth.  Thiel does not.  He and his personality cult are not facing persecution form this blog or the government.  Delusional COG "leaders" love to thrown that out to divert attention away from their inept actions.

Anyone thinking God dwells in the Continuing Church of God is in for a rude awakening.  God does not.


RSK said...

Even Armstrong wrote about "a few ne'er-do-wells who have come to me, announcing 'Mr. Armstrong, I am here to tell you that I am Elijah who was prophesied to come' or 'Mr. Armstrong, God has shown me in a dream that I am to be your right-hand man and soon to take your place.'..."

Every movie star or blockbuster film director has at least one wingnut trying to send them screenplays they think the object of their attention will use.
Every popular musician has some nutjob trying to send them pitiful little recordings of songs they want the object of their attention to play.
Every former-WCG worker in the correspondence-received department can probably list off a ton of crazy "new truths" people were writing in to tell the Armstrongs about, including UFOs, the significance of Inuit poop contents, the number of streetlamps in Timbuktu being equivalent to the number of David's mighty men, and so on.
And every COG leader has had a Bob Thiel "bugging" them with "revealed knowledge" of the crackpot variety in hopes of gaining rank and power.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad this blog keeps the heat on Malm! I had a family member interested in his stuff. With this blog and other blogs we were finally able to lead them away from his lies. I hope the government does arrest him, and soon!

Anonymous said...

What I think is so cool is that all of Dennis' Thiel-like and Malm-like stuff is now gone, so that Banned no longer appears to be some sort of crack-pot mirror image or opposite to their obsessions. Original is good!

Anonymous said...

Dennis is in no way Thiel-like or Malm-like. Nor is the material he presented considered "crackpot" by trained theologians and scholars. It's only considered that way by people who have lived in a sheltered environment their entire lives so as not to be exposed to anything except what their cult preaches is "teh trooth."

RSK said...

Before the anti-intellect crowd jumps in to decry "worldly" theologians and scholars as mentioned by 7:07, I should point out that many points of "bible" scholardom are based on issues raised by simple laymen who read their bibles carefully. Some of those questions are just simple details (camels and coins in Genesis), some are theological queries to which little short of a direct interview with the divine can answer, and everywhere in between. If it bothers you to have the occasional (potentially irrelevant) Bible question asked, you shouldnt go around touting the "prove all things" mantra.

Anonymous said...

Let's see what he does next, 7:07. I'm betting that like every WCG finky gorp with an unorthodox "baby", he's not going to just drop it and silently go away. That's not what obsessed people do. He's going to come back, again, and again, and again, harder. This vote means nothing. He was just checking to see which way the wind blows.

Anonymous said...

"Let's see what he does next, 7:07. I'm betting that like every WCG finky gorp with an unorthodox "baby", he's not going to just drop it and silently go away. That's not what obsessed people do. He's going to come back, again, and again, and again, harder. This vote means nothing. He was just checking to see which way the wind blows."

What's with the character assassination? Jesus christ. He's not obsessed. His ideas are not unorthodox. Armstrongism is unorthodox.

Dennis has been posting here as a moderator for a long time. If he does come back, which I hope he does, it isn't because he fits any horrible description of him you can come up with. It will be because he has built some equity here.

Stop being such a typical intolerant christian asshole. You just hurl these insults because you can't handle coming into contact with anything that challenges your abject ignorance and cherished falsehoods regarding the bible and the facts surrounding how it and the judeo-christian religion, as well as it's ideological ancestors came into existence.

Anonymous said...

Well 9:59 let's put it this way, either he goes or some others here will go.

Anonymous said...

Dennis is in no way Thiel-like or Malm-like. Nor is the material he presented considered "crackpot" by trained theologians and scholars.

Au contraire! Like HWA, he mixes some solid material with some utter crackpottery. As such, he remains more of an Armstrongite than he is capable of realizing.

RSK said...

But regardless, Bob's attestations make little sense anyway. He thinks RCM was going to ordain him a prophet? Aside from self-ordinations, when was prophet a rank in the COGs?

Anonymous said...

Is this nasty to admit, but I kinda like the fact that for years hundreds of kooky people turned up at Pasadena. Oh how that gives me a kick. Oh did HWA have to come down in his private elevator and deal with them.Did he think it was a prince or president come to chew the crystal with him and then have his expectations shattered. I wonder if God Himself had sent them, to make Him laugh at the response of the arrogant rulers of the day.

senior citizen said...

Sorry Thiel old boy. There are no prophets under the new covenant.
Hebrews 1:
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe"

All you need to know was revealed by Jesus Christ and all the rest now are false prophets.
Even HWA said there are no prophets in the end times only false ones.

RSK said...


Gerald Bronkar said...

Wondering if most of the anon posts could be from the same person. Is closed mindedness an addiction or a disease?? I've heard there is no cure.

Hoss said...

During the investigation into the downing of flight MH17 over the Ukraine, Russia responded with a barrage of conflicting information. The leads were all dead ends, but served as a smokescreen; an act of clever planning, or a mad panic?

When Banned stated that Bob’s dreams were no proof of his claim to an anointed position, one response was the claim it was a denial of God’s use of dreams – along with a swag of verses related to ‘dreams’. No, the claim wasn’t against God, it was a claim against a possible usurper of authority. It reminds me of the scene in Monty Python’s Holy Grail, where King Arthur’s authority is challenged by Dennis, the resident of an Anarcho-syndicalyst commune.

How do you prove you are the mythical true church?
- select your target audience
- outline a series of steps necessary to establish proof
- get your audience to agree that each step is a valid test
- show that you satisfy the requirement of each step
- claim that no one but you satisfy all the steps

The system gets shaky when you challenge the validity of a step in the test or if the person in question had satisfied the requirement.

The Pharisees were right to challenge Jesus as the possible Messiah. After all, how many during that time were viewed as likely candidates? The problem was, some Pharisees did overdo things, some were hypocrites, and a number became believers. With some 300+ COGs, I think COG-critique blogs are justified to legitimately challenge any who claim to lead the mythical true church. Personally, I look for cognitive dissonance as reflected in inconsistent, contradictory doctrines, sloppy scholarship,…

Anonymous said...

Gerald, 8.19 PM so everyone who disagrees with you is addicted, has a disease, is close minded etc. Everyone is crazy except Gerald. Ha ha ha.

Anonymous said...

Hello Bob Thiel,
Do you really believe you're so "spiritually special" with "double doses" of the Holy Spirit like you claim to have?

Everyone I know in the COGs simply thinks that you are a stupid and deluded person.


Gerald Bronkar said...

Anonymous 9:31
Glad you can see your flaws, and have a sense of humor. Good traits!!

Anonymous said...

1.48 AM could it be that there is no "true church," and that a Christian is simply one who personally follows Christ? Did not Christ say that His mother, brother and sister are those that do Gods will? No corporate church here.

Cheers TradingGuy

Hoss said...

Speaking of the "double dose" - as usual, a biblical phrase that gets a COG definition. It does mean the granting of super powers or ultimate authority.

There are several Jewish thoughts on this phrase. One is that as a "double portion", Elisha received the blessing of the first son, just as Jacob did in place of Esau. Another thought is that Moses gave Joshua a "double portion" when he blessed him using both hands rather than one hand.

And it wasn't Rod or Dick or Doug who did the anointing, but presumably a rank and file minister who said "double portion". So? Is that a guarantee? Remember, in the case of Elijah and Elisha, Elijah said "double portion" was a difficult thing, and conditions applied!

Can one prove that this claiming a "double portion" is any more authoritative than Arthur being handed Excalibur? I double dose dare ya!

Mish-Mash said...

I like your last comment, TradingGuy. I have been trying to sort out this whole "true church" thing for a long time. Obviously, its not any of the ACOG's. If God were to claim any of them as His "true church", it would make him look pretty ridiculous to have such pious frauds as his representatives. I agree, a person who simply follows Christ and lives by his principles is a Christian, and those people constitute the Body of Believers. Christ didn't use organizations filled with "leading men". If I hear that phrase one more time, I'm going to puke.

Hoss said...

Sorry, typo on my 6:46 comment, I meant "double portion' doesn't mean ... But I think that was obvious... But then, teachings and doctrines have been built on typos and misunderstandings. Even the man in question, while excelling in such specialties as non-biblical prophecies, has the occasional fumble with simple Biblical material.

Anonymous said...

Gerald Bronkar said..."Wondering if most of the anon posts could be from the same person."
For several months, there has been a sockpuppet brigade that either wastes time by argueing with it's self or patting it's self on the back.


nck said...

"1.48 AM could it be that there is no "true church," and that a Christian is simply one who personally follows Christ?"

That is an interesting philsophical question!

"Could one be an (the only) American in.... let's say.... South Africa?"
"Could one be an American in South Africa IF the USA would have ceased to be a country?"
"And if so how would new "Americans" be produced if that culture would have ceased but only the "declaration of independence survived amongst other peoples?"

Just being philosophical.


Anonymous said...

Yes, I'm the creator of the sock puppet brigade, and since Gerald is one of my most recent creations, thought it would enhance the basic credibility of the brigade to have him pose that question.

Anyone can indulge in this. Spiking the normal anonymous postings with posts from people pictured in old Envoys makes everything credible. I'm careful, too. The Bricket Wood students that I use must spell in the accepted English manner, and occasionally use some of the slang I learned from Paul McCartney and Mick Jagger. Only screwed up once, about five years ago. Didn't realize that one of the names I used was of someone who had died a long time ago. But, no harm, no foul. I just let everything cool down for a couple months, and renewed the effort. One of the funniest things I ever did was when there were racists on one blog, I created some sock puppets with ethnic names, threw in some ghetto slang, and when the racists attacked, and persisted in using ethnic slurs, they got kicked off the blog.

NOT!!! (But, I can understand how anonymous posters might foment paranoia. Sociopaths can and do violate presumed social contracts.

nck said...

No Gerald,

This blog is about "mise en abyme"

That is the formal technique in which an image contains a smaller copy of itself.

The "two mirror" experience. Seeing as a result an infinite reproduction of ones own image.

Or the dream within a dream (nightmare) effect. Once you awaken you find out you are still in the dream. (returning to hwa site in 2016 after 35 years of absence)

In here there is a reduplication of images or concepts referring to the textual whole. Mise-en-abîme is a play of signifiers within a text, of sub-texts mirroring each other. This mirroring can get to the point where meaning may be rendered unstable and, in this respect, may be seen as part of the process of deconstruction.


Anonymous said...

I remember Don. He has to be somewhere near my age, which means his days are numbered, but he looks pretty good for his age if that's a recent picture. Like we all were at the time, he was a true believer, but he's never shaken the syndrome. It makes me sad to see so many still caught up in the delusion and going even deeper.

Allen C. Dexter

Anonymous said...

"Anyone can indulge in this."

But not everyone can get away with it. Fanning the flames doesn't put the fire out, it just hastens the destruction.


Anonymous said...

one thing about the internet is that any loser that has the wherewithal to get a webpage can post what ever bs he wants to, right???