Now we know what is wrong with Dave's 16 ministers that are supposedly his advisors. Yes men, all, and converted as turnips!
I’ve struggled and struggled and struggled throughout my ministry, and it just bothered Mr. Armstrong to no end that he would ordain men who were not of God at all! “How could I…” He’d beat himself up. And I tried to learn from what he did, and I made many of the same mistakes! You look and you try to see who has the Holy Spirit. And it would just…he was befuddled—“I made men evangelists, who didn’t even have the Spirit of God!” Paul worked closely with two future popes!
I’ve ordained a lot of men, who were as converted as turnips, and it would bother me, because I would read the parable of the wheat and tares, and there were people who supposedly could tell the difference between the wheat and tares. And if you had the spirit of discernment, you can do a little better. But why was it I could never tell…You’re baptizing a person…You can’t tell…Did they receive the Spirit? You ordained a deacon…was he really converted? Or a deaconess, or an elder, or an evangelist. Do you see my point?
I’ve watched this for decades and the Church, in many ways, is in the “God ordained and appointed” mess that it’s in because of a whole lot of thieves and robbers, who climbed up, and nobody could see that they were! Why? And what does that have to do with the parable of the wheat and tares? And what does that have to do with being able to see the Kingdom? I’m going to explain it to you, and when I was talking to a lady, yesterday, she immediately got goose bumps. We were talking about this…so I think you will, too, but first, let’s read the parable of the wheat and tares.
13 comments:
Sadly, for all those who were ever part of the Armstrong scam, this admission of lack of discernment is just the tip of the iceberg. Reality is, the ministers didn't know the difference between their butts and a hole in the ground about anything else, either. Ordinations would rank very highly in terms of relative importance. If leaders are making mistakes in that area, I believe that every other decision or interpretation that they would make is also unreliable. Like, in Dave's case, oh I don't know, uh, "common"? If someone is admitting that he cannot trust his relationship with God to discern and produce converted ministers, can you really trust him to know which of his new truths God will send you to the Lake of Fire for failing to observe???
Think, RCG members! A public service announcement from yer bud,
BB
So if you agreed with Herb, you had the spirit of God, but if you disagreed on any matter, you didn't have the spirit. Another bully tactic.
Dave talking about wheat and tares. I'm speechless.
If there is anyone who does NOT have the spirit of Yahweh/God, it is Dave Pack.
Pack can't seem to go a day without praising himself. He is an empty barrel that makes a lot of noise every time it moves. If HWA said that he couldn't tell if a man was converted, then he didn't have the gift of discernment which is a basic gift. Many are seeing that HWA himself was NOT converted. One cannot be converted and do all the things that he did, especially over and over and over again.
No, what HWA and DP both reflect/reflected, was extreme covertness and greed, along with a perverse opinion of themselves. Both of them suffer from a lack of love for the flock. Both of them lived the life of constant getting for themselves at the expense of the flock, and both of them experienced their children leaving them. Finally, both of them consider success to be reflected in how many possessions they can accumulate/steal from others.
One day both of them will receive their reward. They will be casted into the lake of fire, after watching all those that they felt were not worthy of their greatness, receive what they themselves thought was coming their way.
The Turnips that Dave stresses over were simply men who ultimately did not cooperate or agree with Dave on any fantasy he could come up with. "Deeply converted" to Dave means "Incredibly compliant"
While David was looking around to see who had had God's spirit and who didn't have God's Spirit he apparently forgot to look into the mirror and take a long hard look at himself, because if he did he would have seen thi"Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?" James 4:
God has a reason for telling us to "try the spirits!"
Time will tell...
John
HWA had the same contempt as Pack currently does, against any and all COG 7th Day ministers. They were "out to get me" and HWA was complaining about it for decades afterwards against the "Sardis Church", which interestingly enough, has greatly surpassed the HWA COG descendant complex, by many multiples.
Dave Puck is the ultimate turnip. He is the Grand Poobah Turnip.
His cult is a horror.
I remember the women being afraid of him and his wife. Visibly afraid that the tables for a meal after services were not set up in exactly the right way.
When I was a stupid ignorant member of the church of god and in his group he was already fully out of whack personality wise and religiously.
He and his wife ran the church like a Gestapo organization using the membership to do servile work in a cowering way.
He gossiped nonstop about people and ran them down behind their backs if they didn't fawn over him. He would falsely accuse and make accusations about people and everyone had to agree or you'd be out.
I chose out.
None of that is Christian in any sense but, the congregation goes along with it because of brainwashing in the church of god Cults.
The lake o'fire and tribulation are what they use to get you.
People 'keep the law' out of fear of loss of salvation and it trumps love of Jesus Christ completely!
When I realized I was more afraid of not 'keeping' the day of atonement than I was of revering Christ, I knew I was very very wrong.
When I realized Christ had atoned once and for all I had to question why we kept going over atonement again and again!
So, I left for the truth..
Christ died once for all.Not a special few but for all. He doesn't die once a year or daily. It is finished.
And I realized finally that Christ meant it when it says, "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God has rainsed him from the dead you WILL be saved".
No ifs ands or buts
Rave on Dave.Rave on.
I've ordained lots of men who were as converted as turnips, well as one whose had to listen to many of these turnips preach who's to blame? Surely this statement reflects Dave packs discernment skills or lack of them.
Did Pack consult God through prayer beforehand. Has God been silent to these men ? Has God been silent for years but they carry on as if they are spirit led when their spirit dead ?
This is another perfect illustration of something I've been saying for years about the Armstrong ministry. Because of HWA having been contemporary (while Jesus is historic), these guys set up HWA as their gold standard. It's what HWA taught them to do, to take his every word as if it had come directly from Jesus Christ. Therefore, none of them will either recognize or repent of HWA's sins. You want to talk about replacing the sabbath with Sunday, these guys have replaced Jesus with ol' Herbie! In fact, in most cases, they reason that if a little (of HWA) was good, a lot is better. So, they base their lives and ministry on what amounts to a very poor paraphrase of Jesus, and they even amplify that and make it more extreme.
And, it's part of a more pervasive, general trend. Their "research", to the discriminating eye, has always been based largely on secondary sources, or sound bites from primary ones, which they use in their proof-texting. If anyone is brave enough to challenge them (most just recognize the futulity in this and walk away), they point to their broken clock examples of the times in which they have been right.
BB
David Pack is a turnip. Herbert Armstrong was a turnip. Garner Ted Armstrong was a turnip. Gerald Flurry is a turnip.
I’ve struggled and struggled and struggled...
Poor Dave. He should have titled his official biography My Struggle...
Hoss, you're a riot! That is a great title! Mein Kampf, indeed.
Dave Pack: “I've ordained a lot of men, who were as converted as turnips...”
I do not believe that at all. If they were truly as converted as the humble turnip, they would not behave as badly as they do. All of Dave Pack's brain-dead yes-vegetables need to look up to the humble turnip and learn many important lessons from it about true conversion.
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