Doug Winnial has been a quiet fixture in the Living Church of God for many years. He provided a balance to the wild rhetoric of Rod Meredith. He has been a weekly fixture of weekly updates of the LCG that tended to be a little more grace-filled than the words of various other LCG ministers and leaders.
The last LCG members officially saw anything of him in print was October 19, 2017. This is about the same time Gerald Weston brought in his new Gestapo Chief, Rod McNair. Many LCG members do not look favourably on McNair and find him abusive and confrontational.
Ever since Weston's golden boy was elevated to more power in Charlotte, Winnail has not been heard from. With Weston's recent command to shut down its boondoggle Living University, Winnail was shoved to the wayside.
LCG wants to give the impression that it is ascending into the glory days of the church as a final witness to the world. LCG members know that this is NOT the case and are beginning to leave the church. They see a future filled with more rules and demands placed upon on them by leaders who are graceless and operate without mercy.
35 comments:
Thiel had this to write about Winnail a few years ago...
"Doug Winnail was a close friend of Jim Franks during their years together in Baltimore, and if there should be enough time for this situation to mature, it is possible that these two might once again establish a good working relationship with a joint cooperative effort."
Winnail to COGWA??? or is he hiding in Argentina like other SS did after WWII?
There’s an old saying in corporate Americana: “No good deed goes unpunished.”
The goings on in most of the splinters will never take the Armstrong movement to the next level of maturity. Whenever there is a clue that something is emerging which would make that happen, there are just too many people who instinctively yank everything right back down to its normal low level. Reformers die off or disappear before they can get any traction. It’s sad to watch, because life really does not need to be the way it is for the long-suffering and abused church members.
BB
This article is rubbish.
The last LCG members officially saw anything of him in print was October 19, 2017.
False. Winnail's little Weekly Update articles have continued to appear at the end of almost every Weekly Update since then, including last week. All that has changed is that Weston now writes the opening paragraphs, where Winnail used to do so.
This is about the same time Gerald Weston brought in his new Gestapo Chief, Rod McNair.
False. McNair was around several years ago as Gestapo Chief when he handled the Book of Enoch and Scarborough purgings.
Ever since Weston's golden boy was elevated to more power in Charlotte, Winnail has not been heard from.
This article is wrong about Winnail's absence in print, but what is a little interesting is that Doug Winnail hasn't had a sermon released since July 21, 2017, while Rod McNair has had three of his sermons released since then. Even Scott Winnail has had two sermons released, while his father has had none. Don't worry, though, Gerald is still in charge, with ten sermons released since Doug Winnail's last sermon.
Winnail would have a hard time moving to COGWA, as COGWA has rejected Winnail's modified "Falling Away" doctrine, and has even released a couple of sermons refuting it. He will probably go the way of Germano, kept quiet by a generous retirement package.
Banned has a pretty good track record regarding "insider" ACOG news, but blew it badly with this one.
All the splinters collude with each other. The things they keep saying over and over, and they things that they hide are near identical. For instance, they all believe that government is an end to itself rather than a means to a end. They deny it, but their actions say otherwise.
Another example, the LCG and UCG told their members to not read James Malms blog on the same weekend. Collusion. They are still very good friends.
They must have a gentleman's agreement to discourage members bunny hopping from one XCOG to another. After all, bunny hopping diminishes their power.
There should be competition offing a better church experience, rather than collusion. It's like the mafia families, with each having their own territory.
All the splinters collude with each other. The things they keep saying over and over, and they things that they hide are near identical. For instance, they all believe that government is an end to itself rather than a means to a end. They deny it, but their actions say otherwise.
Another example, the LCG and UCG told their members to not read James Malms blog on the same weekend. Collusion. They are still very good friends.
They must have a gentleman's agreement to discourage members bunny hopping from one XCOG to another. After all, bunny hopping diminishes their power.
There should be competition offing a better church experience, rather than collusion. It's like the mafia families, with each having their own territory.
Doug left for Africa last Friday and will be there for the next 5 weeks.
That's not to say that his position at LCG headquarters is all peaches and cream.
It is well known that Doug favors mercy, kindness, patience and love (attributes not highly respected in LCG) while Gerald Weston favors harshness, favoritism, and Dave Pack type control over members.
It's not a relationship that seems like it will work for too long. Obviously Doug was able to co-exist with RCM but RCM was far less attentive than Gerald is.
Dr. Winnail wrote some comments in last week's weekly update for the church, and he was on the Tomorrow's World Live presentation last week.
Dr. Winnail also gave a sermon in South Carolina about 3 weeks ago which was streamed to several congregations in North and South Carolina
Among most Christians there is a recognition that the Body of Christ is different from the denomination. The denomination should provide organized functions that support some part of the Body of Christ such as church services, ceremonies, missions and care of the sick and poor.
Cults always believe that the Body of Christ and the denomination are the same thing. Hence, every wretched thing that happens in the denomination is a sacred feature of the Body of Christ instead of people simply behaving badly.
Denominations in the Christian sphere have mostly come to be viewed as organizations of men. And Evangelical Christian denominations, especially the more autocratic denominations, have some of the same problems that the Armstrongist fragment churches have - after all, people are people everywhere.
Another related problem with Armstrongist fragment churches is that they believe that all the features of their organizations are credentialed by Christ. In this model, they believe that the literature they publish is inspired by the Holy Spirit. They believe their minister's decisions are inspired by the Holy Spirit. They believe their FOT sites are chosen by God. Sermons are inspired by the Holy Spirit. All things are Holy.
The persistence of this Armstrongist Model of Holiness is why Reformed Barthian theology cannot be reasonably engrafted on Grace Communion International's ex-Armstrongist congregations. Presbyterians will look on Barth's theology as the particular viewpoint of a thoughtful man that can aid their own understanding. But to those shaped by the Armstrongist Model of Holiness, Barth's writing is inspired by the Holy Spirit. I have heard words to this effect in GCI. Barth's theology has the same holy status as the Bible just like Herbert's little pamphlets had the same holy status as the Bible - all the word of God.
And the Armstrongist Model of Holiness nicely supports autocratic Phariseeism.
Talking of autocratic Phariseeism, I just read a book review that stated that during Americas first 150 years, self esteem, self reliance and pull yourself up by your bootstraps were all highly esteemed. Herb attacked and rejected all three in his writings. He wasn't ignorant that they were virtues, but since they undercut the ministers autocratic power, they had to go. This is murder. This is crippling members minds for the sake of power lust. Yet many expect to see Herb in the kingdom.
These lies are still told by the splinters.
Nicely summarized NEO
FYI. This post was from an LCG member.
NO2HWA wrote:
FYI. This post was from an LCG member.
If so, then you now know not to trust this source quite so confidently. Unless Rod McNair has received some unannounced promotion (Has he replaced Winnail as CAD Director but we haven't been told yet? If so, that would be scandalous and devastating!), this report is just plain wrong, and says more about the way gossip spreads inaccurately than about anything happening in LCG. Consider that Winnail's comments have been in nearly every Weekly Update since the date on which this "member" says they ceased. Was this member not paying attention at services for that long? Most LCG congregations either read the comments during announcements or at least post the Update where brethren can read it on their own.
You vultures here on this forum have absolutely no clue about anything that is actually happening in LCG. You think you do, but in reality you don't. The "insiders" who give you "information" have no clue either. Believe you me, I know many of the "top" people in the organization - and they routinely snicker about what they hear about on trash gossip blogs like this one. But keep it up folks. The entertainment is appreciated! lol
To an ACOG, the church looking good has always been more important than telling the truth. This is rather strange, considering the fact that Armstrongism has always presented itself as being the only available earthly source for truth. That should tell someone something. Honesty is a consistent character trait, a Godly one, and it is not something that is simply turned on and off to deal with various conditions. It’s either there 100%, or you cannot rely upon it.
BB
For those wondering how LCG will shatter, here's something to consider...
LCG's first two CAD Directors, Carl McNair and Charles Bryce, mostly ordained actual "elders" as elders, along with the usual crop of ministers' kids. McNair and Bryce knew that the congregations were strengthened by these men who had gained real-world experience, not just a college degree and some book knowledge.,
Doug Winnail changed all of that. He started to ordain mostly younger men, and chose those not who were experienced in the real world, but instead those who were "intellectuals" or who at least made a show of working their way through the Living University curriculum, as lightweight and ridiculous as it was.
This means, though, that many LCG elders ordained in the last decade are basically loyal to Doug Winnail in a way that they aren't loyal to Gerald Weston. What about the McNair and Bryce elders? They aren't fans of Winnail, and are the likeliest to stay loyal to Weston, but even they may find themselves with conflicting loyalties, especially those who by age consider Weston more of their peer than their leader.
Anon 12:37 PM wrote:
I know many of the "top" people in the organization - and they routinely snicker about what they hear about on trash gossip blogs like this one.
Rod Meredith wasn't snickering when he lashed out in his sermons against this site. Bob League wasn't snickering when he had his spies try to figure out who at HQ was posting here.
Why would anyone "snicker" about this site? If you are an LCG true believer, your heart should ache over what this site does to draw people away from LCG. Only if you are one of the tares at HQ would you "snicker" over what is either a devastating pattern of "leaks" or a tragic parade of lies. Whichever it is, no true shepherd would "snicker" about what is posted on this site. Thank you for admitting that many of your top LCG leaders are heartless tares.
i like winnail cuz he made (or i perceived that he made) a tacit response to my pleas that lcg should place more emphasis on the preaching of loving ones fellow man in their efforts to publish the Gospel...
it stands to reason that a person willing to acknowledge, and make some effort to emphasize the importance of the Loving Way of Christ would be marginalized by the forces of the devil...
c f ben yochanan
Back on January 21st, I joked "Well, get ready for anonymous posters to show up telling us about how their uncle's cousin's nephew's father has a friend who has an acquaintance who once stood in the same line at the PO with someone from LCG HQ and how "this blog" is sooooooo mistaken."
I prophesied your otherwise rather uninteresting coming, 12:37.
NOW GIVE ME THE KEYS TO LCG AS A PROPHET IS A HIGHER RANK THAN AN EVANGELIST (Bob Thiel... except I'm a better prophet than him).
You vultures here on this forum have absolutely no clue about anything that is actually happening in LCG. ... Believe you me, I know many of the "top" people in the organization..."
Anybody could have wrote that. Why should we believe you? What's your name?
The human race is a lost cause. The leaders are all crooked as in Washington and Pasadena. Anyone who tries to establish order is hated Pharisee and everyone wants to do their own thing which will never work. There is nothing left to do but watch them all nuke themselves.
Off-topic but highly interesting. About Churchill, whom some COGs still admire. It says here he was quite the opposite of what people think.
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/multimedia/poetry-spoken-word/110-heathcote-williams-winston-churchill-great-britain-s-greatest-beast
Winnail does not have a logical bone in his body.
I am an LCG member and I have to admit that 90-95% of what is posted here is accurate. LCG rmployyees and members know just how sick it all really is and how much abuse there is. You can call us all liars as you want, but LCG has a leadership issue!
Anon 5:49 PM, Scripture tells us that Christ's sheep hear His voice. If you follow corrupt leaders instead of Christ, what do you expect will happen to you?
I have known Doug since college and thru the years as we brushed church areas. Doug is a very easy going guy with a genuine doctorate in biology I believe. I never found him to be "apt to teach" and his sermons lack any academic background that would seemingly go along with his disciplined scientific approach. Frankly I never could figure out how he ended up in WCG with his background. He always seemed to dismiss his real knowledge of science for "God did it". That always surpised me about his approach. He certainly has forgotten the scientific method when it comes to religion and just takes it all on faith, as we all did at one time.
He's not a particularly good speaker in my view but that's just me. He and Weston are polar opposites and I suspect GW will "win" because Doug does not seem like he'd ever be interested in being in charge or have the need to be.
He emailed me when he got back to Charlotte to get together for lunch in Charlotte. Great. I did ask him in the email if he understood I was no longer in the faith etc and that RCM might not want him to have lunch with me. He never got back to me again.
Dennis,
This may seem extreme, and I'm sure the snickerers will just snickel more, but a psychiatrist friend of mine expressed to me his theory about what he sees in some of the WCG splinter groups. He falls back on the psychological term "alienation." His thought is that many long-time WCG/splinter members grow so proficient at projecting a "WCG/splinter 'self'" to others that they become depersonalized, with some losing their moral center and becoming what amount to sociopaths, and with others retaining a "private self" that they view as being "above the fray" and not invested in the lies and posturings that go with presenting oneself as a good WCG/splinter member.
Regarding Connie's quote from Thiel, just to keep the facts straight. Thiel was quoting from Malm, to begin with... and Malm had the location incorrect. Neither Winnail nor Franks ever served in Baltimore, at least not the one in Maryland where I grew up in RCG/WCG.
That, 6:42, in addition to reciting their programming rather than being able to carry on real conversations with their own opinions, is what makes these folks “cultic zombies”.
Other groups groom their members in the same fashion. Armstrongism is by no means the only group with instantly identifiable zombies as the prevailing stereotype. You can usually spot a Jehovah’s Witness a mike away, too, as well as some of the extreme Evangelicals.
As kids growing up in WCG, I and my siblings mastered the art of the dual lifestyle, or dual personality. One was for relating to the church people and minimizing punishment during the hours spent at home, and the other was for relating to the rest of humanity. The fact that we had to do that for survival damaged us immeasurably. It took years for me to ditch the fragmented personality, and to relearn to be the same person to all people.
BB
maybe if ur science could have predicted and explained the advent of a man like donald trump, winnail would have put more faith in it...
c f ben yochanan
BB
Exactly. You get the same phenomenon when people are tortured. The victim tells the torturer whatever they want to hear. By contrast Christ always reasoned with people in order to change peoples minds. The sick thing is that churches are satisfied with the resulting wearing of 'pleasantville' masks.
So you get pretend churches, with pretend members and pretend doctrines. And some are shocked that these churches fall apart when their daddy leader dies.
Brian Drawbaugh (Feb 8, 6:53 PM), thanks for helping Connie (Feb 7, 8:32 PM) and the rest of us "keep the facts straight.
Connie wrote that Thiel said: "Doug Winnail was a close friend of Jim Franks during their years together in Baltimore, and if there should be enough time for this situation to mature, it is possible that these two might once again establish a good working relationship with a joint cooperative effort."
The false prophet Thiel was mis-informed. Doug and Jim were, and probably still are, close friends, who "once upon a time" served in New England in the Boston (not Baltimore) area (Doug later pastored Rhode Island). When both Doug and Jim left their ministerial credentials behind in Pasadena (when they departed from the WCG), they joined the newly formed man-made organization of United Ass.; however, Doug stayed with it for a very short time and left to become part of another man-made organization: the "Living" group.
There used to be talk of United and Living merging into a joint cooperative effort, but that seemed to die. Then the COGWAss., another man-made organization, came into existence and that is where Jim Franks is today. Just how "united" is the United Ass., and/or how "living" is the living group? And now hints of a joint cooperative effort between Cogwa and Living?
It is all just a bunch of confusion, which God is not the author of, but time will tell...
John
John
John
You seem to have problems with the 'man made.' My smart phone is man made, as is my computer, car etc. My barber and medical care is man made as well. Herbs church culture of abuse and tyranny is also man made.
You need a good lay down on ziggys couch. Oops, that's man made as well.
Anon 6:42 that is a good point. How can your light shine when you are dodging what you claim to be the thing that makes you a light? The COGs felt their light to be their beliefs with special knowledge that the rest of the world and "false christianity" did not have, but they divert attention from this special knowledge and try to keep it hidden until they feel they can set the hook. It does create double personalities. Most did not share the gospel because it would be too time consuming or awkward as everything depended on the special knowledge, in a sense they denied Christ.
Anonymous 12:37 PM wrote:
Believe you me, I know many of the "top" people in the organization - and they routinely snicker about what they hear about on trash gossip blogs like this one.
If they snicker, then what do you say about the "coincidence" that when this blog points out that Doug Winnail hasn't had a sermon posted since July 2017, within a couple of days LCG posts the first Doug Winnail sermon they have posted since July 2017?
I think they are watching and that they know they are in damage control mode. They want this blog to look bad, and they want to discredit it. Unfortunately, to follow on Byker Bob's point, there are increasing numbers of cult zombies who for economic or family reasons play "church face" with Weston and McNair but who use this blog to exercise their real non-cult personality.
Post a Comment