Monday, March 12, 2018

Living Church of God's Tithe Thug Says 'This Passover Season Examine Why You Don't Save Enough Second Tithe"

Passover, at least in the Church of God, a time of self-reflection over past sins and actions that separate members from one another. It was a time of recommitment to never do it again, but almost everyone did the next day after Passover, hard-heartedness reigned supreme when the law is used as your saviour.

Living Church of God's Rod McNair is taking Passover reflection a step further.  Examine why you don't save enough money to go to the Feast.  LCG is getting sick and tired of helping members.

Saving—and Spending—the Festival Tithe: Passover time is self-examination time. It is time to evaluate our lives. And time to adjust and correct areas where we may be falling short. We can ask ourselves, “Am I being faithful in setting aside the Festival tithe?” Over the years, some brethren have fallen into the trap of thinking that saving Festival tithe—also known as second tithe—is optional. In other words, if they cannot afford it, they don’t need to save it. But Scripture shows just the opposite. Saving the Festival tithe is a command that teaches us to have an appropriate fear of God, keeping our focus on Him providing for our needs (Deuteronomy 14:22–23). In “Self-Examination: A Vital Key to Growth,” (LCN, March/April 2009), Mr. Richard Ames explains that we can even “ask God for the ability to give,” and that tithing shows God we “trust and honor Him.” Reviewing that article might be helpful during this season.
Then Rod McNair has to treat LCG members as the idiots he thinks they are because they are too stupid to know how to spend their money at the Feast.  Even though he and the rest of the Meredith clan used the second tithe to live the high life at Feast sites.  Who can forget Lil'Jimmy Meredith bragging about water skiing, snorkelling and jet ski riding at the Feasts in Hawaii? One standard for the LCG elite and another for the lowly members.
Another question we can ask ourselves is, “Am I spending my Festival tithe correctly?” Deuteronomy 14:24–26 shows that the Festival tithe is for going to or using at the Feast. Certainly, that includes the Spring Feasts. If you know you will have enough Festival tithe for the coming Feast of Tabernacles, it is certainly appropriate to use a small portion of it during the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread season. Many brethren use a small part of their Festival tithe for the Night To Be Observed meal. On the other hand, some have, over the years, fallen into the trap of thinking that the Festival tithe can be used for household items or other things throughout the year, or as emergency funds, which have no relation to God’s Festivals. Let’s be careful not to stretch the application of the Festival tithe command beyond its intent.
Why talk about the Festival tithe in March, when the Feast of Tabernacles is over five months away? Because now is the time to examine our Festival tithe saving—and spending—habits.
Passover is only three weeks away!
Have a wonderful Sabbath,
Rod McNair

Church of God News is asking if this is Rod McNair's start of no longer assisting LCG members.
Do Rod McNair's comments, in the March 8th update, mark the end of festival assistance? If you are so poor that you are unable to save the festival (second) tithe, he instructs you to do it anyway, and “ask God for the ability to give.” 

The church has always expected members to tithe, even when they cant afford it.  It was far more important for the church to get their cut of the money than it was for the members to live lives according to what they can afford. That is why it is important to enforce the tithing doctrine, even though there is no spiritual proof that the New Covenant calls for it.  How else can the LCG elite live their lives of luxury?


Byker Bob said...

This money thing is certainly a frequent refrain for all of the ACOGs, isn’t it? Kind of reminds me of Judas Iscariot’s comments about Mary Magdalene annointing Jesus with expensive perfumes.


Anonymous said...

That's the strangest Pre Passover letter to members I've ever read. It raises more questions than answers.

Anonymous said...

LCG is setting itself up for failure. Instead of pleading "We're the Levites and can make administrative decisions," Rod McNair has made the false claim that the Bible supports his teaching of second tithe. The problem is that, when people press him on it, he has to point to historical, not Biblical, sources to justify the doctrine... and those same historical sources would have LCG members:

• Send only their males to the Annual Holy Days
• Keep the Passover one evening later, as the Jews do.
• Observe a Sivan 6 Pentecost
• Observe Hanukkah
• Keep the Feast of Tabernacles not in fancy hotels, but in palm-covered booths.

Here's a lesson for the Biblically illiterate Rod McNair. Unless this too has changed (it's hard to keep up with LCG's changes and what they have forgotten of HWA's teachings), LCG still believes that when the Second Temple fell, the old Temple-related rituals became obsolete, as Christians with the Holy Spirit were the new Temple of God. As a result, the Old Testament regulations about pilgrimage to the Temple were no longer observable.

In the Old Testament, God was with, not within, the Israelites. They were told to visit the Temple to encounter God's presence. After Pentecost, Christians no longer needed to visit the Temple to experience the presence of God.

That doesn't mean LCG can't keep annual Holy Day festivals. All it means is that a pilgrimage "to the Temple" has become redundant, thanks to the Holy Spirit. LCG can still have annual church gatherings, but those are administrative decisions, not Biblical imperatives. The fact that Rod McNair does not seem to know this, but instead clams as "Biblical" a doctrine that is literally Apocryphal and Josephus-al, tells me that the quality of Biblical teaching in LCG must be very low, and the quality of schoolyard bullying must be very high.

Anonymous said...

LCG continued WCG's old practice of not asking their employed ministers to save second tithe. Every year before the Feast of Tabernacles, ministers on the church payroll received second tithe checks commensurate with their salaries. Has this changed, or is it still one of the areas in which men like McNair tell the brethren, "Do as I say, not as I do"?

Anonymous said...

As long as McNair is busy ruling on how members can and cannot spend their second tithe, I have a question for him.

Is it OK to spend some of my second tithe on earplugs, so I don't have to listen to horrible "special" music from the ministers' pets, and so I don't have to hear the same Feast sermon I have heard again and again for the last 30 years? It is always a pleasant surprise when a minister has prepared a brand-new sermon for the Feast of Tabernacles, as over the years I have seen and heard just how lazy many of those men are, giving nearly the same sermon year after year.

Anonymous said...

"Tithe Thug"? Whatever. You know, it does take money to attend an 8-day-plus excursion no matter how you cut it. So, if you don't want to attend the event, then don't save your money (i.e. that 2nd tithe). Unless you have extra cash just laying around that will cover your expenses for the 8-day event, then this tithing thingy is not an issue. But then that isn't following the Biblical command, and faithfully obeying our Creator as He clearly instructs us to. Haters are gonna hate. So whatever.

DennisCDiehl said...

"Jesus Died For Your Money"

Connie Schmidt said...

Well, just as soon as the Brethren can have a say on how the ORG money is spent (or wasted) , then perhaps they can even begin to say how you can spend your own money!

Anonymous said...

I always felt very uncomfortable around the Holy Days. You have the ministers who very clearly are "living it up" (particularly at the Feast). Then you have the members, of different incomes obviously, who are actually watching what they're spending. It just seemed so wrong to me that so many people struggle to tithe all year long and then there's this group of people whose only income is coming from this struggling group without a care in the world. They (ministers) are only able to be in that position because someone else's struggle. Not that all members struggle but a good portion do.

Byker Bob said...

Our troll is a metaphor for or microcosm of the ACOGs. There are always going to be those who try to persuade us to be intellectually open to lower concepts, to dumb down. And, of course that was already part of the experience as basic training for our indoctrination into Armstrongism. (sigh)


Anonymous said...

I think we can all recognize that Anon 6:08 AM has his Feast of Tabernacles paid for by church member tithes. He wrote:

Unless you have extra cash just laying around that will cover your expenses for the 8-day event, then this tithing thingy is not an issue. But then that isn't following the Biblical command, and faithfully obeying our Creator as He clearly instructs us to.

First of all, that's a meaningless statement. If you "have extra cash just laying around" to keep the Feast, you have in fact faithfully set aside your second tithe. That's the kind of statement that would come from an insensitive and prosperous minister who has his Feast expenses paid by other people.

There is no credible Bible justification to make the Feast of Tabernacles a mandatory eight-day pilgrimage but not to also make the Days of Unleavened Bread a mandatory seven-day pilgrimage. Maybe Jim is too young to remember this, but through the mid-1960s the Radio Church of God treated the Days of Unleavened Bread in much the same way as it did the Feast of Tabernacles, except that DULB events were regional and much closer to many members' homes and workplaces. Even back then, however, attendance at these festivals was not mandated. These pilgrimage festivals were suggested by the Bible pattern, and members delighted in attending them, but the ministry didn't try to twist the Bible to say that these gatherings are required of New Testament Christians.

Finally, unless Rod McNair is his Creator, Anon 6:08 is not obeying his Creator by attending the Feast of Tabernacles. He is obeying his church's ministry, which is fine, but he shouldn't claim Bible authority for what is in fact a legitimate ministerial decision. However, regarding that ministerial decision, the deciders had better be sure that they aren't laying burdens on the members beyond what the Bible actually prescribes, because if they do so the Bible says they will be very severely punished.

If Rod McNair wrote, "Brethren, when you buy a blue Buick you are obeying the Biblical command!" people would understandably think he was over-reaching. Yet, in terms of what the Bible actually says, today's ministry has the same authority to command the purchase of blue Buicks as to command attendance at a particular Festival or site. If LCG wanted to, it would be Biblically legitimate to restrict membership to those who would obey the ministerial command to buy blue Buicks. That would, however, be a case of ministerial binding and loosing, not a case of doing something the Bible commands, other than that the Bible commands that members obey the legitimate commands of the ministry.

The problem is simple, and it is shocking. Rod McNair has confused his own authority with the Bible's authority.

Near_Earth_Object said...

This seems like just another fund raising effort but beneath the financial exterior is a theology that is very destructive. Armstrongists believe that tithing is a requirement for salvation. In other words, for Armstrongists Jesus' sacrifice is a requirement for salvation as Christian churches believe, but his sacrifice is not sufficient on its own contrary to what Christian churches believe.

Armstrongists believe, apparently, that if we had to rely on Christ alone for salvation, salvation would not happen. Salvation requires that people do stuff in addition - like tithe and other OT practices. Jesus left us with a shortfall in the equation leading to salvation and we must ourselves fill the gap.

This is why Armstrongism is known as a Jesus Plus Cult.

By loading down salvation with all kinds of additional requirements, Armstrongists can then use salvation as leverage to make the fearful do those requirements. With regard to tithing, it is a nice scam and results in direct economic benefit to the scammers who gleefully use these funds for their own indulgence.

Speaking of indulgences, the Armstrongist form of tithing for salvation is worse than the medieval Roman Catholic practice of purchased indulgences for the mitigation of punishment in purgatory. Armstrongists ramped up the heat by making tithing a requirement for salvation itself.

Armstrongists have always been taught that tithing is an investment. Theoretically, you pay and God repays more - not really a personal sacrifice. But most of them do not realize that their theology also makes tithing a means of purchasing salvation.
Every time they send in the blue business envelope, they convict themselves of this heresy.

Anonymous said...

Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but you all are mistaken about the ministry. The LCG ministry does not have a paid "vacation" to the Feast or to any other Church-related activity. They actually save their own 2nd tithe during the year like everyone else, and pay their own way to it (transportation, lodging, food, leisure activities, etc). If they are a traveling speaker (one who goes to 2 or more sites during the Feast), then the church pays only for their airfare/transportation. However, even they still pay for their own lodging and food, etc. Most of the ministry - the fulltime guys or the unpaid ones (local elders) - pay for their own food, lodging, transportation, etc. to, during and from the Feast.

Anonymous said...

@ 12:27 PM, when did this change? I have personal firsthand knowledge (saw a check for a paid minister) that at least for a while LCG was giving their ministers a pre-Feast check, from which they paid their Feast expenses, so they did not need to save their second tithe from week to week. Perhaps our troll can step in here and tell us when LCG changed this practice. If you deny this, you are a liar. if you are an insider, you should be able to tell us when this practice changed. Thanks in advance!

Still Learning said...

Riiiight, Rod.
Because when Paul says "Examine yourselves...", he was referring to tithing?
I don't think so.

Anonymous said...

6.08 AM
"Faithfully obeying our Creator as He clearly instructs us to."

How about also faithfully obeying our Creator when He says in Matthew, Mark and Luke to not lord it over members like the gentiles. He also clearly instructs this.

Oh, I just remembered, like all tyrants, secular and religious, they ignore laws they don't like, while demanding blind submission to their oppressive laws.

One standard for me, another for thee. The Creator clearly doesn't instruct this.

Ariel Ben Noach said...

The first tithe is given to the Levites, not the Kohanim (Num 18:21-24). Not all Levites are Kohanim. Only the sons of Aaron are Kohanim or priests. The term Levitical priesthood is not accurate. It should be Aaronic priesthood.

The tithe of the tithe is given BY the Levites TO Aaron (Num 18:25-28). It's not given by the other tribes.

Female levites can receive the first tithe even though they do not serve in the temple. The intent and purpose of tithing is lost in ACOG.

The last place where God put His name was Jerusalem. The ACOGs blaspheme the name of God by saying their FOT sites are where God put His name. Jeroboam did the same.

Byker Bob said...

Ya know, perspective is often interesting, and even humorous. I’m standing on a customer’s production floor observing some of our equipment right now, and what do I see? I see the cover of a booklet which is entitled “Fellow Workers in the Truth”. But this is not an ACOG publication! It is a Catholic booklet for Catechists. There is a portrait of two RCC priests under the title, one holding a Bible, and the other a Catechism. So, apparently, HWA and his heirs neglected to register “the truth” as a trade name! The original, the church which named itself the Universal, or Catholic Church of God also uses “the truth” to describe its understandings. Paul, Barnabas, and Timothy must have trained them well!


Anonymous said...

Sorry 12:27 ministers do get second tithe paid for them, and they do not pay third tithe. I know I was a minister for a short time. I have since left the church. I am sure that Dennis can expound on this, as this also occurred in WCG.

Ed said...

There is nowhere to be found a new covenant command to tithe. Many ministers, even in mainstream Christianity, quote a passage from Malici, "will a man rob God--even this whole nation--by withholding tithes and oferings",. This statement is taken totally out of context. This was God scolding Isreal exclusively. Isreal was the "only" nation required to tithe. The gentiles where not required to tithe. Well I could go on with many other reasons Christians are not required to tithe but that would take pages. By the way there are some well written books that expose the tithing scam for what it is. Just search the web.

Anonymous said...

2.05 Ariel Ben Noach - you are spot on with your assessment.

Anonymous said...

What I learned in life:

1. It's okay to follow Jesus on your own. You don't need a church.
2. It's okay to feed your children before paying for Flurry's Jet.
3. It's okay to put America first, we don't have to fight Israel's wars.
4. It's okay to be white (the media HATE it when people say that).

Anonymous said...

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

-- F. Nietzsche

Zev Bell-Ringer Of B3K said...

I give the Armstrong cults another decade and they will fade into oblivion.

Anonymous said...

Visiting orphans and widows, caring for the homeless, visiting the oppressed, the jailed, feeding the hungry, taking care of the sick, giving drinks to the parched - that's what it's about.

It has never been about your whole paycheck going to the lavish and ridiculously wealthy lifestyles of the affluent preachers and teachers who, by using tactics of fear and guilt, end up robbing their members of their churches - using it for whatever their hearts desire, and telling the members to shut up about it. Oh, and as a token - they'll use a bit of it for groceries and such for the members, so long as you can pass all the red tape you have to go through to use their "benevolence fund".

The entire concept of tithing in the OT has been abused for selfish, lavish lifestyles by those who make a mockery of Christianity and show their hypocrisy for what it is. The NT makes it clear: love your neighbors, and give abundantly to those who would benefit from your generosity: the poor, the sick, the needy, the hungry, the widowed, the oppressed, and the hurting. Making a difference for others, however, in COG theology, only was for those "in the church", and only was done by the pastor AFTER you gave the church your money. In the COG's, you did your part by giving them the money, and then your responsibility ended. In the NT, you yourself have responsibility to do more than just fork over your money to a pastor and be done with it. Jesus said in Matthew that whatsoever YOU do to others, YOU do it unto me - and whatsoever YOU do NOT do to others, you do NOT do to me. There really isn't that "Pay to the Pastor, you'll be fine" theology. It's a shame COG people have been led to believe that they don't have to do anything for people apart from their church because God isn't working with them "now". Lost opportunities to make a genuine difference for people.

I can remember HWA saying "God is not trying to save this world!" or "God's not working with them right now" so it isn't your responsibility - they will have their chance "later". Completely contrary to what Jesus said for His people to do. It is beyond sad to see some COG people (not all) so stuck up and snobby, thinking they're so much better because "they're saved now" and others aren't that they just don't give a crap about anyone outside of their little group.

God said to love, because God is love - and COG people have been conned for their wallets and paychecks to believe that the "world" is so evil they don't deserve the time of day. Again. Missed opportunities, missed rewards, and there truly really isn't an excuse. The tithing law has been abused for the benefit of the elite - and I'd hate to see how Jesus would react about that, based on how he reacted about the money changers at the Temple. Based on what he said, I'm certain that Jesus would not be pleased at the servants of the god of mammon, who have robbed their members of opportunity for personal gain.

Somehow I think Psalm 62:10 has escaped the COG ministry:

"Do not resort to oppression;
resist the temptation of ill-gotten gain.
If you achieve wealth, don’t let your heart get attached."
(The Voice)

Anonymous said...

@ 5:10 PM

It's a shame COG people have been led to believe that they don't have to do anything for people apart from their church because God isn't working with them "now". Lost opportunities to make a genuine difference for people.

On the other hand, when a disenchanted ACOG member encounters people trying to be "good Christians", this can serve as a powerful testimony of how bogus HWA's teachings actually were. Many who left an ACOG church have found that the typical ACOG member is much less Christ-like in conduct than the average "professing Christian." Practicing Christianity leads people to become more Christlike. Practicing Armstrongism leads people to become more Pharisaical.

Near_Earth_Object said...

Herbert Armstrong was, at the core, an advertsing man. He was about creating an illusion of substance when there was no substance. He was about, symbolically, leavened bread. Large impressive, bulky loaves of lightweight leavened bread.

He wanted the lay membership to believe that if they kept the myriad laws and regulations he espoused they would be blessed by God. They would be affluent. And, in each congregation, the example of being wealthy and affluent because of God's blessings was the paid ministry. If you wanted to see if Herbert's system really worked, you just had to look at the paid ministry for evidence. The house, the suits, the fleet car, the special accommodations at the Feast. The fact that the ministry lived in a world of affluence was a great advertisement of the efficacy of the religious philosophy now called Armstrongism.

The catch was that the affluence of the ministry was not from a blessing from God but from a compensation decision made by the Church Administration Department in Pasadena. It had nothing to do with "the way" that Herbert was advertising.

I don't know if the lay membership was able to understand this big fluffy piece of leavened bread for what it was. Some must have. I certainly heard nobody talk about. Everyone towed the line and let themselves be duped.

Anonymous said...

12:36, I'm not deny anything. Just throwing out the cold, hard, truth of the matter.

I have personal, first-hand knowledge of current practices in LCG. My brother in-law is a pastor. He not only pays a full first tithe, he also saves a full second tithe (as is the Biblical mandate). If he didn't do this, he nor his wife and children could afford to go to the Feast of Tabernacles. Even my own pastor does this - and he's technically retired. As is the policy, all full time ministers are required to do this. And they've been doing it this way in LCG for YEARS. The same standards apply for the unpaid local elders, regardless of their private sector employment status (i.e. retired or working).

You all don't want to hear this, but the truth of the matter is there are no free rides or vacations or any kind of extravagant lifestyle being offered to any LCG minister or employee off the backs of LCG members. Dr. Meredith didn't allow it, nor is Gerald Weston allowing it.

Yes, there are many salaried ministers and employees, but not one of them is getting an extra check from the church to attend the Feast. Some get extra assistance for a portion of their travelling expenses if they happen to be a travelling speaker going to multiple sites during the Feast. But even then, they ALL save their second tithe - just like everyone else. It's been that way for YEARS.

BUT on the other hand, if a member has fallen on hard financial times, or if they happen to be an retired elderly widow or elderly married couple who are barely surviving because they have to live on social security (like many other retirees these days here in the USA), then most likely they will need a little extra cash. Or, is as more often the case, they will need MUCH more extra cash in order to go to the Feast. And they usually receive this assistance - as they should. I see this happening EVERY year.

Anonymous said...

A pack of tithe thugs, glad to be out of it. A pox on all their houses.

Anonymous said...

2 LCG ministers have confirmed to me that tithes AUTOMATICALLY comes out of their checks. Those salaries are in fact paid for by other tithe paying members that don't inadvertantly pay for their own 2nd tithe thru their own 1st tithe- think about it. It's the exact same number, one goes to the church which pays their salary, and also their tithes, and the other goes to their Holy Days. Again, it is the EXACT same number that goes to LCG as what goes towards their Holy Days. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to add it up that the members are paying for the ministers. And they do get reimbursed for things like travel. Heck I know of multiple ministers that have their own vehicles paid for by LCG (or rather LCG tithe paying members).

Byker Bob said...

HWA was into conspicuous consumption. That was part of his personal power equation. One of the problems within Armstrongism today is that virtually nobody in the splinters repents of HWA's sins. Rather, they consider those sins not to be sins at all, but to be permission, or approval.

I'm certain that there are some in the ministry who are modest in their spending habits. Certainly not everyone is guilty of the same identical abuses, but generally just because some exceptional people may live a frugal lifestyle, it doesn't mean that they aren't guilty of other toxic behavior patterns.


Anonymous said...

10.33 PM
Ministers having their tithe taken out of their checks, means that their 'tithing' is nothing more than a accounting trick. It's common sense that the spirit of the law demands that the ministers voluntarily pay the first tithe after they are paid by the church.

Anonymous said...

I am learning more about life from Jordan Peterson on youtube than I ever did in church.

Anonymous said...

"Kind of reminds me of Judas Iscariot ..."

Well, that's funny because you remind me of Judas too. As well as Stalin.

DennisCDiehl said...

Can you imagine being incinerated for all eternity, having spent your personal 0.00035% of time since genuine humans showed up on the planet for not having faithfully paid your Festival Tithe, only going to church on Saturday only, disagreeing with a minister, passing up on shrimp, lobster and jello, not sharing all things common, doubting characters like Pack, Thiel, Malm, Flurry and Weinland are really uniquely in touch with a God , noticing Jesus has not returned and doubting all this end of the age stuff going to happen in your particular lifetime?

Add to this, doubting perhaps that your 5000, depending, church cohorts, representing 0.0000008333% of all people on earth are the only chosen ones on one blue dot in a galaxy of a hundred billion stars most of which could have their own blue dots in a sea of 100 trillion galaxies each.... well you know.

I can't.

Ekklesia said...

Whatever the case of the when and wheres of ministerial pay, the ministry are supported better than most of the tithing members are paid. They believe they "have it together" and they only compare themselves to those members who they deem "have it all together"-- which in large part is determined by these members' income.
The Levites received a tithe because they "had no portion in the land." They did not have land on which to raise or grow food; the other tribes they gave them 1/10 or less of their produce.
This is obvious as ALL tithes were based on the production of FOOD from the land. No, Abraham did not tithe to Melchizedek.
The COGs know this. They know there is no support for tithing in the New Testament. They know Paul did not ask for tithes (but instead stated the principle of not muzzling the ox). They know Paul was an apostle who was continually traveling to begin churches and support for someone like that is very reasonable (they are not Paul!). And yet, Paul still supported himself.
There is no indication that local elders were paid. It is all such a justified lie. Doesn't a church need money after all? So, certainly a little deception on tithing is justified. The UCGs and COGWAs of the world count on members' muscle memory as they never address the support for tithing in a sermon anymore. They know the support is not there and they do not want the members to look into it.
So sad, so dishonest. So lacking in faith.

Byker Bob said...

The thing is, Dennis, as we were working towards 1975, and it appeared that the horizon event we’d all based our lives upon was going to turn into a giant sleeper, I couldn’t either! And then later, as I began to realize what PTSD was, and what they had done to all of us with that, I realized that the WCG had failed us not only on a prophecy level, but also as a religion, and what a religion is supposed to do and to bring into our lives. I then began to attempt to educate my way out of all of the negatives, and to turn as many of them as possible into positives.

It must be getting very difficult for the surviving WCG moms and pops who were Ward and June Cleaver’s contemporaries, and their kids who were the baby boomers as they still resolutely await the events which they had been told would unfold in 1972-75, having spent their entire lives being abused and controlled, believing that they were qualifying for something and imagining that God was confirming British Israelism in their prayers. Most of them will die in that mental condition. It might actually cause more damage at this point if they were to actually wake up.


Anonymous said...

Do LCG HQ employees pay 3rd tithe?

Byker Bob said...

Good, 3:13. Let’s keep it that way. I would hate to be liked by you. Guilt by association, you know. I prefer to have participants in the blog realize that we are opposites, and at enmity.


Dennis Diehl said...

I believe you're right BB. Waking up can lead to a long Dark Night of the Soul experience which may last longer than they do

Anonymous said...

8:08, Yes, I'm sure most are paying the 3rd tithe twice in a 7 year period. The ministry isn't required to do so, but they give back in many other ways. And if folks aren't paying the 3rd tithe, then that's between them and God. Unlike some COGs, LCG doesn't kick folks out for not paying their tithes.

Anonymous said...

@ 8:08 AM, at one point Rod Meredith told his HQ employees that they did not need to pay third tithe, but he may have changed his mind later on. More important, now, is what Gerald Weston teaches about this.

Anonymous Coward said...

Every letter from HWA ended with "Send Money!".
Anonymous 4:32 as for passover one night later.Jews do it correctly.
There are 3 sacrifices daily in the temple.
Morning is shacharit, afternoon is mincha and evening is maariv.
Now for maariv the only thing done is burning of the fat from the days offerings.
the Avoda, which includes the sacrificing or work in the temple must be done in the day. You are forbidden to sacrifice at night as HWA insisted it be done.
Jesus Christ was not sacrificed at the wrong time of day as HWA seemed to think.
He was the mincha sacrifice which was the olah or complete sacrifice.
HWA was wrong on so many counts.
What the church did the night before is a memorial of C hrist's death, not passover.
Also the night ends at midnight not in the morning as HWA argued. Are there not 12 hours in a day and thus 12 in the night.. 12AM to 12 PM, 12 PM to 12 AM so the Israelites could go out just after midnight.
I could go on and on on the ignorance of HWA.

Anonymous said...

I once had a photographer who worked for the church, tell me he wasn’t required to pay 3T, since he was a part of the Levitical ????

When I attended AC in the 70’s, we were also told that we weren’t required to pay 3T while students, again because we were of the Levitical ???

I used ??? because I never truly understood how so many could be exempted, as employees or students or even as ministers.

It seemed to me the “loosening and binding” passage seem mighty handy when those in charge wanted them to, especially when they wanted to marry the Aaronic and Melchesidic priesthood’s into one neat package that ,surprise, surprise, totally gave them the lions share of all monies.

I chuckle at the rather self righteous retorts on here about how the ministry of XYZ COG are now following scripture, through some “new enlightenment”.

I guess reading the scriptures for what they actually state versus man’s interpretation of them, has finally become vogue, perhaps to try to placate so many other mishandled issues, that was so preached as gospel at the time.

I’ve said often, I would possibly give some credence to the first minister who didn’t take money, as Paul did, as someone God might actually accept as the real deal.

Sadly, in almost 50 years around the COG, all I’ve met are glorified moneychanger types, believing they are doing all of us a favor, when in fact, they are simpleton hirelings.

Ariel Ben Noach said...

The various ACOG use Mal 3:8-10 to (scare and) remind the members to send in their tithes and offerings. The heave offerings were given to Aaron and his sons (Num 18:8-20). The only tithe in the Torah given to the priests was the T of T which the Levites were required to give (Num 18:25-32). This T of T is also called a heave offering. One can argue that the 3rd tithe could have been given to the priests also, for disbursement to the poor, instead of within the gates/community.

Do ministers of ACOGs have the right to receive heave offerings? In Num 18:11, the heave offerings were given to the sons of Aaron forever. The missionaries have questioned the Hebrew 'olam' or 'forever' in the Jewish bible. Do the ACOGs insist this time that forever means forever? If yes, the verse states sons of Aaron which the ministers are not. In Num 18:8, Yehovah speaking to Aaron: "I have given them as a portion to you and your sons, as an ordinance forever". Please understand that I'm not discouraging anyone from supporting their priests or ministers. Just do not let them use Mal 3 and tithing verses to justify their demand for charity.

The 1st tithe was for the Levites to live on, not for preaching. The tithe of herd or flock is every tenth animal (Lev 27:32). Thus, an Israelite doesn't have to give if he has less than ten.

The 2nd or Festival tithe (Deu 14:23) mentions the tithe of the firstborn animal, not the tithe of herd or flock. Also, this is to be consumed in the place where God chooses to make His name abide. That place was Jerusalem, not in Kauai or any other place. Ezekiel 10:18 states that the glory of God departed from the Temple. At this present age, there is no place to go and eat the 2nd tithe. Do you even need to save that?

Some wonder if there are really 3 tithes. The Levites are given the 1st tithe. The 2nd tithe is shared with them. They are also entitled to the 3rd tithe.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 4:32 as for passover one night later.Jews do it correctly.

Actually it was 2 nights before, if you take John 19:14 and Mark 15:33 into account as both couldn’t be the same day at the sixth hour. All the COGs are blind!

Anonymous said...

If you do good to your enemies evil will prosper. That is why Christianity is destructive. It's like liberalism, which promotes the most useless and destructive elements of society while the good are forced to pay for them.

Anonymous said...

Could the reason be that the Church groups aren't growing because people just cannot afford to pay second tithe? Does the ministry actually sit down and realistically figure out what one has left over to live on after paying 20 pecent of their pay plus offering? What about someone making 10 to 15 dollars an hour? Realistically figure it out!

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. McNair,

I plan to attend the next feast, and will not bring my wife.
In fact, I plan to divorce her- "McNair style" - because she's an end times Jezebel.

I only splurged on one item this past Feast. It's a full size blow-up concubine doll. All other excess tithe, I sent in to HQ.
My blow-up concubine doll is of high quality, since God loves quality.
In memory of Apostle Armstrong's GREAT WORK, I named my blow-up concubine doll "Dorothy", which I wrote with a Sharpie across her face, and, "Surrender, Dorothy!" across her chest.
I also wrote with a Sharpie across her bum- "Enter into the Kingdom!"
In fact, during the Feast, I entered the kingdom many times, making it the BEST FEAST EVER!

My question is this-
May I use excess 2nd tithe money to pay to have church members slander my wife in court during the divorce proceedings?

Thank you,
Holden A. Pare

Anonymous said...

Ariel Ben Noach wrote, "Some wonder if there are really 3 tithes. The Levites are given the 1st tithe. The 2nd tithe is shared with them. They are also entitled to the 3rd tithe."

That's what I call "Good News", since Miss Cleo told me I'm a Levite!
How do I start collecting? (In the interest of full disclosure, Miss Cleo said she's a Levite, too, and will partner with me in holy collection efforts, which will yield funds to buy a home in Beverly Hills with a cement pond, so we can commence the baptisms.)

nck said...

I'm always surprised to read how legalist the dissenters are.

The bible is very simple.

When you live in Switzerland, you don't pay third tithe. Since there is no need for it.

USA as a third rate country (by social definitions) is a different story.

Much need, much third tithe.

It's all voluntary. Church doesn't know income. So they don't know how much tithe is required. Therefore the "it is between you and God phrase".

What am I crazy???????


nck said...

Regarding the rules on 2nd tithe according to the interpretations and oracles of nck.

When I stopped attending COG, I noticed that I spent far more than 10 percent per year on personal well being, holidays, travel and fun. So the 2nd tithe is in my view an extremely benevolent requirement for fun.

1st tithe.

I don't comment upon since it is "religion". To me it seems ridiculous to give that from a gross income instead of a net if you live in the benevolent social justice nations that require from 40 - 70 percent tax from gross income. One would be insane to give from gross.

Of course there are possibilities to retrieve some tax deductibles or double gifts through local tax regulations.

But hey, I am not into religious interpretation. Just being practical and sane for those who feel the need.