Thus says the prophet, Ron Weinland:
God has now placed the main hope of the United States squarely in the hands of His two witnesses who alone are given the power to help deliver them. The extent of destruction that each of the trumpet blasts and thunders can inflict upon her depends solely on the extent that she will humble herself and listen to God’s two witnesses. If she will not listen, she will not only suffer from great destruction inflicted by a powerful military strike against her, but catastrophic events from natural disasters and plagues can have just as massive an impact. These actually have the ability to become far more destructive than the weapons that will be used against her. It all depends on her response toward God and those whom He has sent to them. The fate of the people of the United States rests fully in their own hands and whether they can be humbled quickly or not.In case you are wondering just who the two witnesses are...Ron and his dingy diamond-encrusted wife Laura.
42 comments:
In Herb and similar church cultures, 'humbled' means becoming a mindless Borg. Controlled by the Gestapo ministers of course.
There is disillusion, as Dennis pointed out. And, there is delusion. We all got jacked around by one mans delusions, and now that he has gone the way of all flesh, we've got a couple dozen pretenders to his mantle of bogussness, and even the occasional amateur DYI type.
Delusion in the hands of a charismatic megalomaniac is generally self-limiting, because the sheer weirdness factor will cause most folks to reject it out of hand, especially when they find out how expensive it is. In the case of Armstrongism, the success of the illusion depends on convincingly making the present, and all the things one knows and loves, seem to be in severe jeopardy. That works like pain compliance. To continue to be effective, you must constantly raise the dosage. This is why, 43 years after the fact, some people we all know continue to expect the Germans, the tribulation, and Jesus within the next 3-5 years, and feel sorry for us (or angry at us) for being out of the loop. I confess, sometimes our current president actually gives me pause to reevaluate my thoughts on that, but at this point, Armstrongism only managed to gobble up two decades of my life. In the unlikely event that any of these charlatan-cretins did end up being the gatekeepers to salvation, their version of hell (Lake of Fire) makes for an excellent way of opting out.
BB
Is Ron unhinged enough to believe his own ranting, or is he just playing on the fears of his few remaining followers?
Within the bounds of Armstrongism, there has been understandable confusion since the death of HWA, and a few charismatic leaders have made powerful please for the brethren's support, but some choices are exclusively the fault of followers who aren't paying attention:
Dave Pack. Shortly after the Global split, he told his members (this is a paraphrase), "Leaders in my position often go off-track. If I go off-track, I'm going to try to convince you that I'm not off-track. It is your responsibility NOT to follow me if I go off-track." This means that if you are following Dave Pack today, you actually aren't following him.
Ron Weinland. As soon as his 2008 prophecy failed, he might have been almost a hero in ACOG circles if he had kept his promise and admitted he had prophesied falsely. Instead, he did what false prophets do, and revised his false prophecy. Anyone following, him, however, is following a man who is not just a false prophet, but a promise-breaker.
Rod Meredith. Meredith's authority comes as a successor to Herbert Armstrong, but Herbert Armstrong himself told Meredith and several others that Meredith lacked conversion, repentance, and the character to lead God's Church. If you are a follower of Rod Meredith, you are repudiating Herbert Armstrong, and if you repudiate Herbert Armstrong there is no reason to follow Rod Meredith (or his successors).
UCG and COGWA and some of the other groups are more complicated discussions. Weinland, however, has more power in any one of his farts than in all of his "thunders" combined.
In many singles group outings, it was the morally challenged person who was regarded as the informal leader. It was obviously to me that they were warming up to his 'evilness.' So it doesn't surprise me that thousands choose to a follow a Rod Meredith or similar. It explains why there is no group with truly decent leader.
It is stunning to me , and us all I imagine, just how crazy minded and delusional men like Ron are. Do they really believe their own views? How can they? What part of their common sense, besides all of it , is missing. Same with Dave Pack. He's been wrong over and over after making grandiose pronouncements about who he thinks he is and how it all will be and never is or could be.
Ron will live , grow old and die just like everyone else. Are he and Laura both mentally ill? Is it a con? Whatever, it is an amazing example of how to waste a mind and a life on useless beliefs.
eh, it's no different than those following the hucksters on TBN....
eh, we are not talking about TBN but Armstrongism. Stop deflecting away from the problem that is Armstrongism.
Ron is just trying to generate more income for his failing work. What a loser, he and his witless wife.
Wait a minute! I thought Donald said that the hope of the United States rested in his hands. Weinland is apparently trying to get in on the Presidential act.
I have trouble taking this seriously. But it is serious. It's grim. I believe that anyone rational can take the measure of this.
Let me just point out that there is a missing piece, that is, Weinland has a base. And he is appealing to his base. There is a group of glassy-eyed, slack-jawed Millerites scattered around that believe Weinland is what they always hoped for. I think we tend to believe his base is a group of pathetic victims. I have a feeling they are instead great enablers of the Two Witnesses. They provide money and moral support. Weinland is not on an LSD trip - he has a mutually beneficial relationship with a group of followers.
David Koresh, a gun-toting rendition of some of the Armstrongist leaders, asserted to his receptive followers that he was Messiah and Prophet and the prophecies of the Book of Daniel were going to play out at Mt. Carmel in Waco, Texas. His followers had the great excitement and privilege of living out momentous Bible prophecies in their lives right there in Texas. Now Koresh and many of his followers are pathetically dead - including a lot of children who really got a bad deal - if "bad deal" is adequate to described being burnt alive. Vernon's greatest effect was to be fodder for many cautionary television documentaries that now people view with morbid fascination. The force of his religious message (The Seven Seals)is nil - just another Millerite oddity.
All the "sound and fury" coming from Armstrongist leaders like Weinland will again collapse into October 22, 1844. The repetition is cloying.
Ron and his dingy diamond-encrusted wife Laura, do not have miraculous fire coming from their mouths as the "Two Witnesses". They do however have miraculous and copious amounts of other things coming out of their bodies, namely...
SMOKE BLOWING OUT OF THEIR ASS !
"God has now placed the main hope of the United States squarely in the hands of His two witnesses who alone are given the power to help deliver them."
If the main hope of the U.S. rest squarely in the hands of convicted felon Wienerdude and his wife, then the U.S. is well and truly screwed.
The U.S. may indeed be well and truly screwed, but if so, it has less than nothing to do with Weinerdude and his delusions.
Are you the dude that’s paranoid about Jews controlling the media, 7:48? Are you insinuating TBN fits into that conspiracy?
BB
...the main hope of the United States squarely in the hands of His two witnesses...
Then they'd better stop talking and get busy doing whatever they're supposed to do.
And Revelation doesn't say anything about giving the Two Witnesses money...
Hoss, doesn't it seem that God is (1) omnipotent, (2) omnipresent, (3) omniscient, and yet (4) in need of your money? Worse, although He needs your money, he wants some nutty preacher to spend it for Him.
You Americans seem to think that you are the centre of the cosmos. You Americans are stupid to think that the world revolves around you.
Stop repeating media lies about David Koresh.
Are you the dude that’s paranoid about Jews controlling the media...
Jews do control the media. They admit it, you ignorant smug fool. Do your research. Until then, shut up.
I think it's pretty obvious. Ron is a con. Flurry has mental problems. Pack is some of both.
The idea that the US could repent is stupid. It's just an excuse for why the GT has not happened "on schedule". The USA does not have God's spirit. They are stiff-necked. They don't listen to any of these churches. The hour is late. The GT is PROPHESIED! It HAS to happen to show how stiff-necked they are! It is part of God's PLAN. So, the idea that the USA might repent is completely retarded and contrary to scripture. It is stupid times stupid times stupid. So get on with the great tribulation already and get it over with. Quit stringing people along.
Not gonna happen.
"... Gestapo ministers ..."
If I could go back in a time machine I would go back to the Reich. Society was well run then. People had industriousness, ingenuity, and decency. Society had love and peace and joy. The leader loved the people and the people loved the leader. Too bad the alien fifth column ruined all that and made the gestapo necessary. Somebody had to root out the cancer that turned the women to bestiality and the news into lies.
Just because I say "I am Batman" doesn't really make me Batman...I think it's safe to say that any time someone claims to be one of the "two winesses" you can be sure they are not.
I admire Jews, 6:26. So, either way, it's not a problem for me.
BB
We must also consider that Weinland is a product of his training at Ambassador College of Religious Entrepreneurship. What is it about an AC education that produces people who focus on making a business out of religion? I think perhaps the ultimate example: Herbert himself. But Herbert was supposed to be the one and only so where do all these other guys come into the picture?
One of my buddies graduated from AC BS and now runs his own Millerite church back in the Midwest. Pre-Ambassador College, I would never have thought the guy would start his own church. He is not prophesying or publishing lurid magazines or going by the name of Ariel ben Hashkol or any other goofy Millerite cliche but he does have his own small, tithe-generating Millerite church.
Different Millerites use different ploys to start and keep their congregations running and tithing. And the overall business strategy is the same and follows in the steps of HWA.
If Vernon Howell had been able to make himself cut his hair and shine his shoes, had he been an AC BS student, he would have been Student Body President. He was White, charismatic, charming to women, played the guitar, a threatening preacher - all the things required for a solid Armstrongist/Millerite leader.
The education at AC was pivotal to Weinland and others like him. But not everyone responded to it in the same way. Others drifted through AC and then drifted away. But I would assert that the students who really understood what AC was about, understood that it was about entrepreneurship and how to take advantage of spectacle. It certainly was not about getting a college education. Something Don Ward never remotely understood.
Vernon Howell did not attend AC. But Vernon was street smart and knew intuitively what others had to learn at AC by idolizing HWA in a classroom setting.
You Americans are stupid to think that the world revolves around you.
I've lived outside the USA more than in, and looking from the outside does give a more holistic view. There was so much American idiom propagated through the WCG.
"on schedule"
When HWA would report some world event, he'd sometimes slip in "right on schedule". Of course, if God actually had done something, one could assume it would be on schedule. But there is the implication that HWA knew the schedule... And hundreds of failed prophecies showed that he didn't...
6.43 PM
People are free moral agents with the capacity to repent. It can happen. It did happen to those Jonah warned. But in the case of America, they have gone way past the point of no return. So they won't repent. But choice is there.
People who say Americans started the Iraq War blame the American political system not the average American. Similarly, those who say "the Jews" usually refer to the international Jewish Establishment. It has nothing to do with individual Jews.
So of course some people admire the Jews. The term is used differently by different people. To some it means Jewish individuals. To others it means the Jewish Elite. The average Jew might be almost as clued out as everyone else. But if you expose the Jewish establishment then you are automatically deemed a hater and anti-semetic. It's a tick.
Expanding a bit on what NEO had mentioned about entrepreneurship, I believe that through various subliminals, Ambassador College attracted entrepreneurial types. I had had my own small business, and my regular customers when I was in high school, and prior to that, I had won prizes for selling bonds to support our school's foreign exchange student program.
There are two basic categories of product from which a salesman can choose: tangible, and intangible. Tangibles include such physical things as cars or washing machines, while intangibles include concepts or philosophies. AC students who were considered desirable and successful either were adept, or became adept at selling an intangible, the teachings of HWA as an imperative in one's life. All effective salesmen sell not only their own product, but also themselves and their own integrity and trustworthiness, which is the key to selling the actual product. My own effectiveness as an entrepreneur has always been confined to tangible products which one could see and appreciate, and know that they were of good quality and actually worked. I suspect that other of my fellow students, although having been seen as potentially effective sales persons, did not become involved in selling or advocating for Armstrongism because, like myself, they were predisposed towards selling tangible items. I can honestly state that I never fantasized about, nor was it my goal, to become an Armstrongite minister, or to sell HWA's concepts. I considered one's philosophical choices to be private, personal, and therefore off limits to me, because they were part of each individual's relationship with God. I had watched this process be clumsily "stepped on" by heavy-handed orators and administrators, and had no desire to impose "me" into others' relationships. However, for those who fearlessly indulged in areas which I had wisely avoided, they had become involved in some very heady stuff, and one can easily understand how their activities could become compulsive, or a personal addiction. That is why I believe that rather than pursue an alternative career when they break away, some, almost by addiction, start their own little groups which are based on the HWAcaca.
There is much to be said about being an entrepreneur. It is hard work with long hours, to be sure. But, you can pattern it to suit your own personality and lifestyle, and while your customers can sometimes become your defacto bosses, basically, you have much more control than do most workers and employees in business and industry. In many ways you get to exercise the peak of the old Maslow triangle, as your business becomes an exercise in self-actualization. Many business owners have great longevity. They are not subject to the mandatory identity-theft that is retirement, in which they are prematurely robbed of the activity in life at which they are most highly skilled, and from which they derive their greatest sense of fulfillment.
Bottom line is that this is one more + - aspect of Armstrongism. If AC taught entrepreneurship, the final outcome has been determined by how each individual applied the teaching. I was already an entrepreneur before attending AC. I resisted and prevented "them" from perverting and co-opting that gift. Many others allowed them instead to take control, and these people unfortunately remain part of the problem today, calling themselves prophets, and apostles, deceiving and enslaving their followers, and bringing gloom and doom into their lives. You can maintain a high level of integrity selling an intangible or concept such as insurance. It gets very iffy when you sell a philosophy that is intended to dominate others' lives. Whether they realize it or not, responsibility for the outcome of your activities is a very real part of that equation!
BB
Byker wrote:
All effective salesmen sell not only their own product, but also themselves and their own integrity and trustworthiness, which is the key to selling the actual product.
This is where Armstrongism has failed so badly. If a minister saw HWA drink his coffee and munch on his donut before his Atonement sermon, this would understandably break the spell HWA once had over him. If one of the Meredith boys invited you to dinner with Mom & Dad, and you didn't like what you saw, this too would break the ACOG spell. If you work for a minister at HQ and he asks you to lie about things, he may give you all sorts of wonderful rationalizations that make sense in his own head, but it will force you to make a choice: abandon your conscience and join the Borg (many do this), or let the spell be broken as you distance yourself emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and eventually physically, from your ACOG.
If the ACOGs produced happy, successful people, there would be many, many more people joining. The people themselves would be the best salesmen, simply by being themselves. Instead, when you visit an ACOG, you don't find people happy being themselves. You find people trying hard to become comfortable wearing whatever false face the leader requires.
But......I also admire the international Jewish establishment. I love the quality entertainment provided by Jews on radio, television, the movies, and print media. I really like Zionism, and the JDL, and all the Jewish charities, and the bnai brith. A couple of years ago when I found out that Elvis was actually a Jew, my respect for him grew exponentially.
BB
"If a minister saw HWA drink his coffee and munch on his donut before his Atonement sermon, this would understandably break the spell HWA once had over him."
I see many of these ridiculous statements.
A spell would probably be broken if he had a stack and was licking all of them and offering 10 people around.
However in EVERY religion requiring fasts, elderly are allowed to eat and drink something during fasts to prevent bad things from happen especially if such person was to give a speech,, sermon, call to prayerr, kwanzaa ritual or whatever for over 2 hours. Every sane person would understand this and even encourage it.
One more example of the legalist people on this forum, with their stupid interpretations of what expired.
nck
6.48 PM
This is not a cooking blog, a sporting blog, a sailing blog or a astronomy blog.
Your political comment, as pointed out before, does not belong on this blog.
You should go elsewhere.
What Elvis is a jew? That explains his sightings after his passing and of course the anagram "levis", who served as temple musicians. Man, David could be related to Liberace being "string" musicians and all. Moses played the Rock with his staff.
Nck
3.55 PM
I'm no fan of HWA, but munching a donut and having a cup of coffee on the day of Atonement might not be unreasonable for a very old person. God didn't intend the day of Atonement to be life threatening. David eating the showbread when pursued by Saul is one example of this.
A moral code is a means to a end, not a end in itself.
Nck
The problem isn't legalist people on the blog, but rather the ministers not teaching members properly. Ministers often divorce morality from its purpose with its misapplication and bible twisting.
This has to be the case since the ministers are waging a military campaign of robbing members of all their God given rights.
7:32
One should heed such ministers. Thanks for the addendum.
I do believe that a people at times gets the leaders they deserve. But I don't know what is first, the chicken or the egg.
Nck
7:18, judging them by their own standards that they imposed upon the members, what would have been wrong with HWA depending on God for his strength? That is most certainly what they counselled all of us to do, and actually with zero tolerance. Love for God and fellow man was expressed in the WCG through obsessive-compulsive legalism. If HWA had collapsed and died in the middle of his Atonement edition of the two trees sermon, the church would have regarded that as the will of God, and the brethren would have quoted the scripture about his having fought the good fight, and a crown being reserved for him when he awoke from his soul sleep. I believe that 3:55's point related to the double standard and hypocrisy. Jesus didn't take massive doses of pain killer before the crucifixion, and Peter actually requested to be crucified upside down, which was probably even more painful.
BB
nck wrote:
in EVERY religion requiring fasts, elderly are allowed to eat and drink something during fasts to prevent bad things from happen especially if such person was to give a speech,, sermon, call to prayerr, kwanzaa ritual or whatever for over 2 hours.
WCG never taught that. Yes, some liberal ministers may have taught or practiced it, but the official teachings never said so.
I am guessing that you never knew anyone in WCG or a splinter who was on physician-mandated medication, and who would risk serious health effects going off it even for a day. Depending on your WCG minister, you might be counseled to fast from your medication, or you might be told that medication isn't "food" and this made it OK to take. In the splinters, PCG plainly teaches that it is best to fast from medication, and LCG varies from minister to minister, though I am sure Gerald Weston will soon enough issue a ruling that applies to everyone. Personally, I never heard of an age-related exception to fasting in WCG or its splinters, it only came up when age led to some medical issue.
9:25
Absolutely, I agree. I said, "to prevent bad things from happening", I inplied a medical condition. And of course children were excempt.
I don't no much about current splinter teaching. I know Islam is quite benign toward the sick and elderly regarding the fast. During my stint in wcg, fasting was always voluntary in the sense that of course Gid knows all, just like tithing, never required beyond ones means. Although of course for many it was in practical application.
Nck
" And of course children were excempt. (sic) "
I grew up in the WCG as a child and let me tell you, as far as it was in my family, children were most certainly NOT exempt. In fact, there was no more dreaded time of the year then sunset on the night of Atonement. It was as mandated for us as it was for the baptized members of the church. Towards afternoon of the next day, dehydrated, a throbbing headache, weakness, and grumpiness were absolutely horrible - plus that dreaded nausea. I was scared if I screwed up God would cut me off, just like I was scared to not give an offering for fear God would cut me off. It is not factual to give a blanket statement that children were exempt. The WCG experience had a set mean average to the experiences. Some parents were liberal, and some were conservative in how the law was enforced on the children. Because of this, even though we all had the same framework, some had far worse (and far better) experiences than others.
I would be careful with mass statements such as "Children were exempt". Some were, some were not.
7:09
True.
Over time I learned there were many wacko interpretations of events that were in my area carefully prepared as important and necessary events or "projects". I started voluntarily as a teen. After years of having been prepared to at least not have sweets on that day, while two weeks in advance we had sermons on the merits of limiting coffee intake a week before and having sour drinks. I only started coffee at age 18. So it was not a big deal. I feel for my muslim colleagues pale by their ramadan fast for (30? Days). I am/was "paled" by them.
Nck
During the era of my youth, children were required to absorb the full harshness of the HWAcaca. This meant no exemptions, and no excuses or bad attitudes. We also didn't think of sneaking food or candy, because this was on an entirely different level from all of the little rules and regulations our WCG parents put on us. This was (we thought at the time) commanded directly by God! And, punishment for disobedience would not just be a spanking. Of course, we had no counter information to the effect that Jesus might have fulfilled the Day of Atonement, becoming our atonement once and for all. No need even for an azazel goat. If you read the instructions to the Levitical priests, the OC holy days were all intricately interwoven with the sacrifices and offerings. But, in Armstrongism, we always parsed and picked and chose, looking for opportunities to put new wine in the old wineskins.
BB
Anonymous Anonymous said...
eh, we are not talking about TBN but Armstrongism. Stop deflecting away from the problem that is Armstrongism.
March 2, 2018 at 8:06 AM
eh, so it's ok to be misled by those on TBN....but not by HWA.
thanks for clearing that up for me.
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