Tuesday, April 17, 2018

LCG: Humberto says, "...and of course you're not going to publish this, because you're a coward."

A reader writes:

Humberto has left a new comment on your post "LCG: Rod McNair-Brethren, Are You A Person of Inte...": 

The only thing that has turned on is your own envy towards a religious group that does not defend itself from your attacks, you attack in a cowardly way, hidden behind a website, you are lax, lukewarm in your ideas and you let yourself be carried away by your own root of bitterness. 

The ministers have the duty to instruct, correct and discipline the people, they will give an account of the flock and God does not want anyone to be lost. Did Jesus reprimand Peter? Did God reprimand Moses? Was Jesus dictatorial with temple merchants? Was God with Sodom dictatorial? Or do you want something like Tkach? You want anarchy where nobody govern anyone? ... That's Laodicea, that's the kind of blog that you have ... and of course you're not going to publish this, because you're a coward. 

Finally, is this your work? .. to put in people false ideas to discredit a group that does not hurt you? 


Anonymous said...

What a shame? Not all ministers are alike, but in this era, it is evident that the majority are increasingly domineering over those in their charge. Not great examples at all. Not paying attention to themselves. Have forgotten that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers of the people. Are having their duties undermined by human motives and power struggles in the churches. Many of the ministers I have encountered in my contrite state were very much unhospitable, poorly disciplined, and not able at all to give solid advice. In my time, I felt less equipped for the works of the ministry of anyone led alone other brethren and more sick and confused and hurt. They watch over peoples souls without joy because they are underpaid, overworked and have many roles they are distracted with. These men now more easily as evidenced by the head leader do not hold to the trustworthy word. They cause division and obstacles contrary to the "doctrine" taught, no wonder so many cant keep prophecy nor teaching straight, it's continually changed.

I've seen ministers to good unto a lot of others in higher positions but not to the lowly. They don't submit one to another out Reverence for Christ but reverence for the man who holds the power to fire them. They lack complete patience and instead rely on an award superficial appearance to judge that people are generally in line.

We are told to respect those who labor among us are among us in the Lord and admonish, that is easy when they are rightly doing those things.

But look at the account witnesses of the many who share their stories to these blogs and then on top of the corroboration of other stories written and shared years apart, how they line up and say the same things.

Many of you have killed the eagerness of the brethren to examine the Scriptures daily to see if those things were so. Many ministers cowardly stand behind and reinforce nonsense prophetic teachings from self-appointed leaders holding self-appointed offices.

Many do not fear the Lord they fear their bosses. Who can brand them heretics if they disagree. The list goes on.

Now, there are some ministers who try their very hardest, for them their sheep will forever be grateful, as i am for those who were good to me and help me fight against my darkest days. I will forever submit myself to the wise and good counsel of them. Many of those good minsters are hard to come by, many of those ministers are the ones who are far away from the 24/7 surveillance of their home office of headquarters and can more comfortably teach and reason with their sheep without fearing upsetting their higher ups.

When you have to call out bullshit you do it. Plain and simple there is no reason we should be giving respect and honor to men who are not even mirroring what God expects of them.

Byker Bob said...

Hummer apparently has no clue as to the human decency behind warning others regarding a toxic and heretical faith. Obviously, we could all selfishly shut up and walk away. If we’d been scammed by Bernie Madoff or Michael Milkin, who amongst us wouldn’t have been warning people about them, too?

Any group that constantly has to call itself “God’s True Church” is no such thing. That’s about like people having to remind others that they’re “prophets”. All learned behavior from the “wonderful” folks who brought you Armstrongism and (yes) 1975.


Anonymous said...


These are the only three things you bring up. Though correction and discipline are but what SHOULD be only small parts of a pastor's duties, when warranted, and ONLY when warranted, what the COG's have done is boosted the role from PASTOR to PARENT. A pastor's role should NEVER be as adult parent to adult congregants. But that is what COG ministers have become. Pastoral PARENTS who have made their congregants CO-DEPENDENT on their every word to function in every day life.

But not just PARENTS. Domineering, controlling, authoritative, combative, ABUSIVE "parents" who have robbed and stolen members of their freedoms and responsibilities. Who have oppressed them into depression, anxiety, hopelessness, discouragement, false hope, insecurity, and despair by the "parent's" conditioning week after week after week. What you are espousing is not a "pastor's duty". What you are promoting is plain and simple spiritual abuse.

You claim that it is their duty to do so. It is not, and it never has been. What it is the duty of a pastor to do is to PROTECT their flock and their congregations from those who abuse - INCLUDING those in ministry. A real pastor would recognize the harm that a minister who abuses is doing and kick their ass out to the curb, because of the harm it is doing to members. a REAL pastor would care for the well-being of their members. a REAL pastor would exhibit the fruits of the spirit in their ministry. a REAL pastor ministers in the spirit of love, compassion, empathy, support, exhortation, truth, mercy, patience, forgiveness, joy, comfort, and care - and saves correction and discipline to those who, through abuse or through sinfulness, try to rob members of the Rest that is given to them through Jesus Christ.

In the COG's, it is the MINISTRY who is robbing members of that Rest that is available through Jesus Christ. Your statement is not only indefensible, it is irresponsible and ludicrous, and blind to the avalanche of reports that members have made of the oppressive control of a power-infested "ministry".

Let it be known there is no envy toward any group that abuses their members so harshly and so thoroughly as some COG groups do, as you claim. Nor is there that old, tired, worn out "root of bitterness" that is thrown out to anyone who is in disagreement. What there is, however, is the DUTY to expose, and the DUTY to show the error - and to prove that there is absolutely NO right and no excuse for such ministerial shenanigans to be cast as some sort of veil of godliness or righteousness, and the DUTY to bring accountability to the abusers who stubbornly and blindly refuse to acknowledge how spiritually abusive they are.

You may try to defend these practices with tired and worn cliches all you want to, and that is your right and freedom to attempt to do so. The real truth, however, shines brightly and clearly for all to see - and exposes your defense as unsustainable - and, with the evidence of the many reports of the abused -- categorically false.

Anonymous said...

Humberto hints at Hebrews 13:17, but he neglects Hebrews 13:7. To justify ministerial abuse, he twists Hebrews 13:17, which states:

Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

Humberto doesn't want you to remember that Hebrews 13:17 comes on the heels of Hebrews 13:7, which states:

Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of their conduct.

The people to whom Christians should be submissive (v. 17) are those whose faith we should follow, considering the outcome of their conduct (v. 7). Consider the outcome of Rod Meredith's conduct. Meredith was a man who arrogantly failed to follow Herbert Armstrong's very clear instruction that he should not lead the church. Meredith practiced blatant nepotism — remember this shocking letter! Meredith lied, favored liars and deceivers, and basically proved by the outcome of his conduct that Herbert Armstrong was absolutely correct in his assessment.

Consider also the outcome of Rod McNair's conduct. If even just a tithe of the stories about him on this blog are true, Rod McNair is not a man whose faith a Christian should follow. As for Humberto, who believes that a pastor may beat his sheep into submission to earn God's approval, all I can say is what the Apostle John said in John 10:27 :

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

If as a pastor you rub the fur the wrong way and do not by your Christian qualities attract God's people, you cannot blame God's people for avoiding you. If as a pastor God's people don't run to you, you are not God's minister.

Remember, if Humberto and other pastors truly believed what was in Humberto's last post, ACOG ministers would accept correction from the senior ministers above them. What we see in practice, though, is that when a group of ministers doesn't want to be submissive to the ruling clique, they run off and start their own new church where they can be the ruling clique.

Anonymous said...

Someone please find a better person to quote than that prostitue-visiting woman beater and plagiarizer "Christian minister" M.L. King! What a hypocrite! What a farce!

Anonymous said...

Any group that constantly has to call itself “God’s True Church” is no such thing.

Whatever you say, troll. Everyone has a name and constantly call themselves something.

Anonymous said...

Anon said: "Someone please find a better person to quote than that prostitue-visiting woman beater and plagiarizer "Christian minister" M.L. King! What a hypocrite! What a farce! "

Who are you talking about? Garner Ted, Herbert Armstrong, Herman Hoeh. Womanizers, plagiarizers, prostitute visiting...the list could go on.

Byker Bob said...

Oh no! The pillow-biter (5:33) is back! Don’t you have some rabbis to party with?


Anonymous said...

Don't forget Lowell Blackwell, the wife swapper

Anonymous said...

Or the number of evangelist wives who slept with GTA....

Anon 5:31 Before you point your craggy fingers at MLK remember you followed a more perverted group of men who also claimed they were following God. The upper echelons of the church was filled with sexual perverts and deviates...AND, still is!

Humberto said...

Of course you are going to make me out the bad guy! When somebody has a different view than you, you paint that person as wrong.

Anonymous said...

Humberto said...
Of course you are going to make me out the bad guy! When somebody has a different view than you, you paint that person as wrong.

It seems Humberto has a problem when people on Banned do this but he/she is A-Okay with it when LCG ministry does the exact same thing.


Byker Bob said...

Why can’t Hispanic leaders in the ACOGs be cool like Tito Larriva of Los Plugz, the Cruzados, and Tito and Tarantula? I remember running out and buying the album “Cruzados” in the mid ‘80s, the minute I had heard their classic “Motorcycle Girl” on L.A. FM radio.

Armstrongism instantly sterilizes any sense of cool. They destroy anything that anyone would ever naturally like, or find pleasure in. Once they’ve done that and depressed prospective members with their doomsday world view, they drop in their toxic and overbearing church as a pseudo solution. Basically, life as you knew and loved it is pretty much over at that point.


Anonymous said...

Is that a picture of Humberto?