Sermon summaries are from an LCG source:
Gerald Weston has deep issues with LCG members who talk to COG members in other groups and who might even attend one of their Feast sites for a day or two in order to be with friends. Weston even has a derogatory label for those who do this, they are travellers on the "Highway Church of God."
One of the reasons for this sermon by Weston is that COGWA is starting a congregation in the Charlotte area n June. Many LCG members will be visiting it. LCG members are already visiting COGWA and UCG Feast sites if they are close by LCG sites. Weston is loosing control and he is not happy. Thus, he has to lecture LCG members on tithing, government and baptism. To be real baptized LCG member one must SUBMIT to everything that the leadership says and requires, which is far above anything Jesus ever required.
00:21:46
There were seven churches in Asia Minor. Can you imagine Philadelphia and Laodicea, which were at the opposite ends of the valley, that Paul is saying that, ‘Boy, if you’re on one end and you are mostly (because it wasn’t everybody in the congregation, but this was the attitude in one congregation), you can’t fellowship with those people over there,’ how foolish; they’re all the Church of God.
Now, we do need to understand that there are differences out here and we’re not all the same. But to say that one should never, uh, you know, sit down with somebody and have a meal with somebody because they’re of a different group - I don’t think we should just be going back and forth, and this church and that church, and be a, uh, oh this one fellow described it, he was in the, what, the “Highway Church of God” or the uh, something like that. Uh, one week he’d go one place, one week he’d go another place. That’s confusion, and it certainly doesn’t help brand new people who don’t understand all the history and so forth. But we’re just talking about the fact that you can’t even be civil to someone who might be of a different group. I think we need to know why we’re here and be strong in why we’re here, and not go back and forth and to different festival sites and that sort of thing - I think that that shows a lack of understanding.
But at the same time, the point is that it’s talking about the world here in chapter 5 of 1 Corinthians, that we’re to forsake… well we’re, we’re… we’re not to go out of the… of, stop fellowshipping with anybody in the world, in other words, your neighbors. You can be friends with them even if they have a few problems, but as far as the Church goes, if someone is going to be sexually immoral, or an idolater, or covetous, or whatever, then he says those individual, if it’s, you know, a real extreme case there, you put ‘em out. The point I’m trying to make here is that we have to decide where our loyalties are. And Christ says you must put him first above all else.Anyone who has loyalties to
1:03:58
Another part of the whole counsel of God is that there are ranks in the ministry. Ephesians 4:11, first apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers, etc. Do we have every one of those at all times? We don’t think so. Mr. Armstrong certainly didn’t think we had prophets at that time. Will there ever be a prophet in the future? Sure, probably. The two witnesses I’d say would be probably prophets. But, right now we understand that there are ranks in the ministry, but because people are so adverse (sic) to GOVERNMENT, they want everybody to be equal. And as, uh, somebody told me one time that was a part of a group that split off from us back in the Kansas City area that first year - another church started, so some people went that direction, and then they split - um, as he said, they have two forms of government. [said with smirking expression] The minister is in charge of the congregation, but on the ministerial level they were all equals because no one wanted to answer to anybody else. You know, this is part of the whole counsel of God. You can’t read Ephesians 4:11 and really do away with the fact that there are different levels within the ministry. And they say, “Well, those are just (what, uh) functions.” Well, you have to decide that, you have to look at it objectively.Weston then seeks to chastise LCG members who do not tithe in amounts he thinks is required. Even though it has been proven over and over that tithing is NOT a new covenant command, the current iteration of COG groups DEMAND that their followers tithe in order to keep the hierarchy in its privileged lifestyles. Apparently, some LCG members are waking up to the fact that the new covenant does not require tithing. Good for them!
Tithing, as a law, not just a nice principle. I remember going out on the internet - the CompuServe forum, that shows how far back it was. I haven’t been back on any of these forums ever since that time, but for a period of time I was on that and I realized I couldn’t sleep at night because I (always) checked it just before I went to bed, and I’d be so angry that I couldn’t sleep, so I finally had to get rid of it and ditch it. But it was amazing how many people, how many ministers were out there saying that tithing is a nice principle, a good principle, “And oh, I tithe, by the way,” you know, is the way they’d put it, “but it’s not a law of God.” We need to prove these things for ourselves. You need to know WHY you are where you are. And I think that most of us in this room KNOW why we are where we are. That’s why we’re here, that’s why we’re not someplace else. But we need to know those things. These three pillars - knowing that God exists and knowing that the Bible is the Word of God and knowing where the Church is will serve you well through trials, disruptions, and times of confusion. And I’ll be the first to tell you I’ve had to go through those pillars time and again. You can’t be in the Church of God for 50 years or more and not, at times, have to go back through it. And I’m not afraid of going back through it because I know the answer’s going to be the same. But at some times I have to remind myself, and maybe you’ll have to remind yourself someday.
So why should you be baptized? [proceeds to discuss repenting of “wrong religion”]
31 comments:
LCG or COGWA?? When deciding between two evils, choose neither.
Or take Mae West's advice and choose the one you haven't tried before...
That sermon is strange. Weston is giving a sermon to members around the world, but he uses part of the sermon to attack ministers for not respecting the ranks of ministry. Does this mean that Pastor Rod McNair is being challenged by mere Elders? Or does it mean that Weston is finally figuring out that much of his predecessor's ability to lead came from his seniority and charisma, and not from his invented rank of "Presiding Evangelist"?
Nothing in the bible says "laodiceans" and "philadelphians" (even if one could know who is who) cannot fellowship together. Rather, it says that christ is not divided and that there is to be NO division in the church.
The same letters were sent to all seven churches. That means they all had the same ministry, i.e. they all got the same "sermons" (letters, literature, etc). There is no reason, biblically, that they can't get each others sermons, literature, etc.
One big problem for Weston:
The 7 Revelation churches were in no way similar to A-cogs;
They did not practice Sabbaths, Tithing, Kosher...(Acts 15, Col 2)
'read it in your own bible' as they say: read the scriptures A-cogs avoid: Rom 4, Gal4, Col 2, Acts 15...
One big problem for Weston:
The 7 Revelation churches were in no way similar to A-cogs;
They did not practice Sabbaths, Tithing, Kosher...(Acts 15, Col 2)
'read it in your own bible' as they say: read the scriptures A-cogs avoid: Rom 4, Gal4, Col 2, Acts 15...
Well, I have news for Gerald Weston. He CANNOT stop me from visiting friends in COGWA or UCG, even during the Feast. I will also take my family to visit COGWA on the Sabbath. Weston cannot stop me. Neither can jackass Rod McNair. I dare them.
They all be joyless! All the ACOGs.
Weston must know that a Christian is one who follows Christ rather than one who attends a certain corporate church. He must also know that it's the ministerial corruption of following Herb rather than God that caused the church to splinter.
'Highway church of God' but no mention of the stay-at-home 'Independent Church of God.' He doesn't want his members to know that this church even exists.
he looks like Putin.....or at least similar to him
At Laodicea I got scammed at the obligatory stop at tapestry salesshops.
Spent one day at Ephesus for my honeymoon to remind my pagan wife of her obligations.
Got chased out of Ephesus like Paul, not by the governor but by the guide's time schedule to continue to the apostle John's grave site.
Romans should just remain at their posts in the resorts. Inland is nothing but alien culture.
nck
NEWS FLASH!!! Mr. Weston you and LCG are part of the Laodicean era too. Does God have a separate holy spirit for each church era. The problem for decades is that COG has always been about numbers.
I took this quote directly from the LCG site: " Last year, 10,801 LCG brethren and guests celebrated this wonderful foreshadowing of the millennial reign of Christ—and plans are in gear for 53 Feast sites around the world in 2018!
Every large COG organization wants to brag how BIG they are! They want members to feel that their organization is the ONLY one that is the RIGHT group. They need to feel that their COG is really making an impact on the world. And that GOD is only speaking through them!
Are you ready for baptism? Weston says that you shouldn't ask a minister the day before to be baptized. If baptism is required for salvation, why would any minister be anything but eager to get you under the water? Are you ready for baptism? The only qualification for baptism is to have repented.
I agree with the following.
"No form of church government is convincingly presented in the New Testament. That is why people impose their own customs on the church and why there are hundreds of forms of church polity. That is exactly what those of us in the shepherding movement did."
From 'Damaged Disciples' by R and V Burks page 135.
The group that Weston is referring to in Kansas City that split away from him (and not Global), had largely most of the deacons and elders.
It's telling, in that most of those who had been placed in these pseudo "positions" in WWCG realized that following Weston / Meredith out of WWCG was not a great option, after Weston lied and went back on his word.
Dave Pack called Weston and came to Kansas City to give all his umpteen reasons for following Meredith. It was after that meeting, that a meeting would be set up and take place with Meredith
Weston went to see Meredith, the week before this "split" happened (though the whole group was at the time, all those who had just left WWCG and had no affiliation).
He had told several that no decision would be made until he came back, to give everyone time to digest and consider what the next option should be.
Instead, the following Sabbath, he got up and in essence said that this group would now be considered a Global COG, which left those who then made the decision NOT to follow Weston, incredulous that he would change so quickly, what he said he wouldn't do, making such a quick decision. He also had a lot of Global literature to hand out.
Carl McNair, interestingly, had given a sermon about 6 months earlier that stated no minister would be allowed to just automatically become a minister in Global, without proving themselves "loyal" over an extended period of time. That obviously changed, once Weston's visit provided all these additional TITHE payers, so as the saying goes, Money talks, BS walks.
The group that decided not to join Global felt betrayed and played by Weston. It was even heard by several that as early as two weeks prior to this meeting with Meredith, Weston didn't even consider Global as an option, as he was keeping his eye on the rising of United COG.
So, it would seem Weston has typical ministerial convenient memory problems of leaving out a few details that would show why these people didn't go with him, as he just took the best option at the time, with the people he was bringing with him as the bait.
Weston has perpetually wanted to circle the wagons against other COG's, when it comes to those within whatever group he was involved in. It's a safe bet he was behind some of the decisions that came out as policy at Charlotte, such as not having a Bible Study without having a minister there, as just another way to keep control, just like he has done several other times.
Sadly, this sermon just reinforces how few bullets these hardliners keep using in the figurative gun he / they carries.....government, control, tithing, fear mongering and his favorite, build the fence, which makes everyone but those that follow him, as less than or even unconverted, which we all know is the epitome of slams against a member.
This nitwit lies through his teeth. His main concern is that they will lose the tithes of those that visit other groups. Can't have that, can we? Money is the reason for this religious scam. Yahshua never formed a church organization. Christians met where they were able, even Paul knocked the idea of those that had loyalties to a particular person/group.
Wake up, wake up, you silly sheep.
"We have to decide where our loyalties are".
My loyalty is to the Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the body of Christ - the church of God - a group defined by the indwelling of the Spirit of God.
One important lesson from a lifetime in the World Wide Church of God is that we should have no exclusive loyalty to a physical organization. That doesn't mean I am not consistent in my support of those I fellowship with or that I am flaky or unreliable to them. Or that I jump ship the moment someone else builds a TV studio with a higher set of TV pixels in their broadcast and brags about it.
But it does mean that church organizations should not presume on my loyalty. I will meet with anyone who show evidence of the indwelling of God's Spirit and keep the commandments and appointed times of God. An organization can exclude me for that if it pleases them. But they can't prevent me.
"We have to decide where our loyalties are".
My loyalty is to the Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the body of Christ - the church of God - a group defined by the indwelling of the Spirit of God.
One important lesson from a lifetime in the World Wide Church of God is that we should have no exclusive loyalty to a physical organization. That doesn't mean I am not consistent in my support of those I fellowship with or that I am flaky or unreliable to them. Or that I jump ship the moment someone else builds a TV studio with a higher set of TV pixels in their broadcast and brags about it.
But it does mean that church organizations should not presume on my loyalty. I will meet with anyone who show evidence of the indwelling of God's Spirit and keep the commandments and appointed times of God. An organization can exclude me for that if it pleases them. But they can't prevent me.
@ Anon 3:55 AM:
Weston says that you shouldn't ask a minister the day before to be baptized.
I guess we had better throw out the book of Acts, as it records three thousand people asking a minister to be baptized on the very same day, not even one day before! Given a choice between following the Biblical/Apostolic example or following a contrary WCG tradition, Weston has cast his lot with WCG tradition!
Is this not hypocrisy of the highest order. It's ok for UCG and COGWA leadership to visit LCG HQ and have fellowship between themselves but not the brethren. Rod Meredith even commentated how they had a pleasant time.
Westerns on the highway to nowhere with this edit. And anyway the name Highway church of God is quite catchy and could represent Gods Holy Highway from Isaiah which will lead only to God and not man worship.
Same old fallacy of "if you dont exclusively pay into our pockets, you are not just cautious, thrifty, unconvinced, or even discerning - you are ANTIIIII-GOD!"
The COG's backyard prophets and many of the adherents use this illogical equivalency very frequently. It allows them to paint anyone not in their cult with an undeserved brush and avoid questioning their precious leaders.
I am another LCG member who will not let Gerald Weston tell me I can't visit friends in other COG 's or go their feast sites. It is time he and McNair stop their Gestapo tactics, otherwise, they are going to have huge membership issues before long.
My loyalty lies with myself. LCG and the other ACOG cults can go f**k themselves.
This highway church member will be going to Kalamazoo. I'm what is called a free agent as the truth has set me free.
I've attended both with LCG and with COGWA. Their sermons and doctrine seem to be exactly the same with the exception of the fact that COGWA doesn't preach Doug Winnail's "Falling Away" theory or the Richard Ames Wedding Supper Rapture.
I contend that if you were blindfolded and placed in your typical Sabbath service, you wouldn't be able to tell if you were in an LCG congregation or a COGWA congregation.
Both have the same format. Both idolize HWA.
Objectively, the only difference I've noticed is that COGWA is welcoming, friendly and the congregations seem to be more genuine and loving. LCG is very unwelcoming, suspicious and cliquish.
LCG vets people before they can attend and COGWA has an open door policy.
If COGWA starts a Charlotte congregation, I'm curious if LCGers will test the waters to escape McNair and Weston.
I was in the audience at the Crown Plaza for LCGs Winter Weekend several months after the COGWA/UCG spit. Rod Meredith went ON AND ON about how we (ACOGers) are all of the "same body" and how we should be welcoming and friendly to members of other COGs. How we should have them to our homes for dinner, etc.
It was a shameless and obvious 180 degree turn from every elitist sermon I had ever heard him give before and I was dumbfounded. Previously, LCG was the "one and only true church" and now RCM was preaching that we are "all of the body"?! Why the change?
Turns out the story was changed because Meredith was foaming at the mouth hoping that UCG/COGWA members would come to LCG because of the split. He was urging us to try to cast a net of kindness to encourage people to join LCG thereby increasing his numbers, power and income (after all those are the things that mattered most to Meredith). Any other time, we were admonished to avoid interaction with members of other ACOGs because of the risk of them infecting our minds with erroneous doctrine (a little poison in a pound of hamburger can kill a person ya know). But when it served Rod Meredith for us to be friendly, then the entire story changed.
Now Weston is scared of losing members to COGWA so he has to double down on the over-used, fear tactic of "we are the one and only", "leaving LCG is akin to losing your crown", "LCG is the gatekeeper to the Kingdom" BS.
Weston is 100% right about loyalty. Where he screws up is that one should NEVER be loyal to an ACOG man or organization. God tells us exactly what happens when we put our trust in men. Loyalty to LCG is in NO WAY equivalent to loyalty to the Father and the Son. Sadly, so many have been brainwashed to think obedience to their church is obedience to God and that all the evil that happens within the church is just one big test from God to see if they will stand by these corrupt men who claim to be the government of God.
Total hypocrisy.
@anonymous, May 12, 2018 at 7:11 AM
"My loyalty is to the Father, His Son Jesus Christ..."
Thank you. This is probably the best post I've read on this blog.
To be honest, there is very little difference between COGWA and LCG. If members are really going to visit "friends" at LCG, they may be swung to the other side based off of emotion rather than anything doctrinally speaking. That of course would affect income level for LCG and if the reports are indeed true that subscribers to the magazine is half of what it once was in 2016, this will pose trouble to LCG in the long term.
Even those who do subscribe to the magazine may not be contributing financially to the organization as I remember visiting a friend of mine (used to be part of LCG) and I saw a tomorrow world's magazine on top of the recycling bin and it was not his as he has long ago unsubscribe to Tomorrow's World. Someone else in that building of his apparently ordered the magazine at some point in the past but now no longer has any interest, which means that LCG is wasting its brethren's tithes by sending those out to begin with.
Anyway, Gerald is a hypocrite. When UCG was breaking up, he gave a sermon at World Vision centre, Mississauga, Ontario about how people in other COG groups are still our brethren in Christ and that we should reach out to them. Obviously, this theme was dropped soon after when it became apparent that no one was coming over from UCG to LCG. So, it was all about getting more people and more money. That is basically what it comes down to with Gerald. The only two topics that he ever gets really passionate about is money and not having sex before marriage. He is like the cold vacuum of space otherwise and is a micromanager. He isn't the only one nor is this unique to people in COG groups but he is in a position to abuse people with that characteristic traits due to his "leadership" position.
Someone commented above that he looks like Putin. Well, he acts like Putin too in a lot of ways. He also looks a bit like the late Pierre Trudeau (former Prime Minister of Canada). We use to joke about that quite a bit as well since he dislike Trudeau, being a liberal (since Gerald is a republican, no doubt, despite telling people that they should not be involved in politics).
Also, amen to the one who said that our loyalty is first to the Father and His Son, Yeshua the Christ.
People in LCG should never have loyalty to the ministry nor the organization. The body of Christ is not an organization. People have to be free to make their own choices in life and associate with whomever they want. It is also one of God's sign to love others and so, Gerald and his gang of modern day Pharisees misses the point. Either way, I wonder how they can be so hypocritical and yet, speak as if they were sincere and as if they care about others when they don't care about anyone other than themselves.
As for the ranks....yeah, good job sounding corporate and exposing yourself as a corporate entity as oppose to a body of believers. All those "ranks" are exactly that, Gerald, ranks like people climbing the corporate ladder in a business world. Thank you for making it clear and exposing yourself further. Those are positons/responsibilities/duties for those who were selected to be such, not rank in the business nor military sense which is exactly what you do in your hellish organization. The Lucifer Camp of Gehenna (LCG) as I like to joke with my friends.
Gerald, repent before it is too late. Honestly, I could have follow up with the police call. I did speak to a lawyer afterward and there was a case to be made. I dropped it for a number of reasons (one of which I did not think it was worth it financially to be slinging mud with someone like you). Although, thinking back, I should have asked the police to call you as oppose to Marc Arsenault since you were the one who originally called the police on me for the stupidest of reasons and even he had to reluctantly agree despite him doing his job and not allowed to show partiality.
Jeremy
Another point to add,
Gerald always rail against big government as he is undoubtedly a republican (despite telling all of us to not be involved in politics, not to enter the military, not to work as a cop or think really hard before working as a cop) but it is ironic that he preaches government and total and strict adherence to what he claim is the government of God and yet, if the Democrats or even Republicans were to act this way toward the American citizens, he would probably have called for a rebellion or revolution of some kind and claim that it is every individual God's given right to have freedom and individual liberty, etc.
Stop being a hypocrite like the Pharisees. Stop lying to yourself that it isn't about the money or the power or the control that you care most about. Stop being self-righteous like only you know and those in your circle when many know more and more importantly are better human beings than you have been or currently are. Stop being a tyrant like you claim Barack was.
Jeremy
"To be honest, there is very little difference between COGWA and LCG. If members are really going to visit "friends" at LCG, they may be swung to the other side based off of emotion rather than anything doctrinally speaking. That of course would affect income level for LCG and if the reports are indeed true that subscribers to the magazine is half of what it once was in 2016, this will pose trouble to LCG in the long term."
I meant to write, visit friends at COGWA, not LCG, in my first post above, my mistake.
Jeremy
What Weston seems to be implying here is that while it might be OK to be civil to or even share a meal with someone from “Laodicea” (i.e. those in other groups), you certainly would not want to attend services there or share a feast site with such people as that would be “confusing”. He seems to miss the entire point of the passages in Revelation 2 and 3, which are supposed to be tools of self reflection and correction within one's own group, not a battering ram to be used against others within the body of Christ. It plainly states no less than seven times within these passages, “He who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the churches.” Notice, not just the “era” you think this applies to, but what the spirit says to ALL the churches! If this was truly studied than many of these authoritarian groups would have much to answer for and will have much to answer for when they stand before Jesus who will judge them.
Also, if we are to take the passage that Weston quotes in Ephesians 4:11 to be talking about “ranks” within the church rather than simply different spheres of responsibility and service, then logically, Weston would have to acknowledge the multiple female prophets listed in the Bible (Miriam, Huldah, Anna, Deborah, etc.). If Ephesians 4:11 is talking about ranks, then all of these women out-rank both him and any pastors or teachers below him, and we know what the COG view of women having authority over men is.
Weston's ideas on ranks fit perfectly with the Catholic Church (from 1547 Council of Trent): CANON V: --If any one saith, that, in the Catholic Church there is not a hierarchy by divine ordination instituted, consisting of bishops, priests, and ministers; let him be anathema.
CANON VI.--If any one saith, that bishops are not superior to priests; or, that they have not the power of confirming and ordaining; or, that the power which they possess is common to them and to priests; or, that orders, conferred by them, without the consent, or vocation of the people, or of the secular power, are invalid; or, that those who have neither been rightly ordained, nor sent, by ecclesiastical and canonical power, but come from elsewhere, are lawful ministers of the word and of the sacraments; let him be anathema.
CANON VII.--If any one saith, that the bishops, who are assumed by authority of the Roman Pontiff, are not legitimate and true bishops, but are a human figment; let him be anathema.
Instead of copying the Catholic model, its too bad Weston and others don't consider the following … Matthew 23:8-12, Matthew 20:25-28, 1 Peter5:3, and 1 Corinthians 12 and 13 read together to get the complete context and picture of the purpose of the gifts God gives. To quote from Matthew 7:15-20, “By their fruits you will know them.”
Unfortunately, many leaders in the COG including Weston have missed the point, and are no better than the scribes and Pharisees or the Catholic bishops in the Council of Trent. While tithing and other means of gathering money for their coffers is constantly underscored, they fail to clean their own houses and continue to ignore the weightier matters of the law...
Matthew 23:23-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! 25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.[a] 26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.”
Is it any wonder why their flocks continue to scatter?
Weston and 99% of the ministry in LCG think their jobs are to micro-manage every minor detail of their member's lives. They fail to realize two things about that:
1) the job of a pastor is to read the Word of God on the Sabbath, advise when asked and to lead by example. If they are doing a good job, then the members should be able to attend a church service with a friend or family member in another group and there would be no risk of LCG losing that member. Like a mama bird who's babies leave the nest... if you are feeding them and nurturing them, they will come back. Like a parent who teaches their children good character knowing that they will have to live in a world where their character is tested daily. The problem is that LCG is so uninspired and the ministry is so harsh and unloving that people are easily tempted to leave. It doesn't take much. If LCG were bearing the fruits of the spirit, this wouldn't be the case.
2)LCG/Weston don't realize that the tighter you hold a fistful of sand, the more sand you lose. They have doubled down on what was already an abusive, bully mentality and WAY over-reaching and harsh ministry after Spanky died. It's actually worse now and many LCG members were hoping it would be better. They have been called the Gestapo in jest in the past but it is even more true today than it was a year ago. The more Weston feels he's losing control, the tighter his grasp, the more people leave. It's a viscous circle that he appears to be completely unaware of and which will end in the church becoming even more irrelevant.
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