I too have a dream - a dream that the COG groups will get together and have a joint fast.
A fast for the people in California who in 1 week have suffered 2 huge wildfires and a mass shooting. A fast to beseech God for mercy, comfort, healing, and rescue for our fellow human beings.
A fast for our divided nation that they will be more tolerant of our internal differences and stop attacking one another.
A fast for the end of division in the COG groups.
An immediate end to division internally and joint church services for COGWA, LCG, and UCG, plus all other groups who want to join.
Because of the belief in servant leadership, an end to calling ministers Mr. - whoever heard of calling servants Mr. anyway?TLA
40 comments:
A fast for the end of division in the Church groups. Great post. I never heard that before. Although you just know that certain groups wouldn't do it. But some may.I wonder if an email to some of the groups leaders suggesting that, would do anything?
TLA
Very noble thought - and very unifying thought. One that has been discussed very frequently among COG critics and members alike - the concept, not a fast, but a joint "Feast of Tabernacles" where all of the COG's could meet together, in one large Arena. It would be a statement of unity and togetherness in the spirit of reunification and reconciliation. I think all of the COG MEMBERS share your dream.
Not so much with those who are leading the groups.
You'll find most of those leading the groups - Pack (especially), COGWA leaders - UCG, LCG leaders - and others - are not interested in joint reconciliation. It is more of a self-centered "I am in charge" ambition, a power struggle amongst the elite, and a saving of their own skin. They want to be the big cheese.
Though I can clearly see the good intentions and the wish for some kind of reunification within the COG's, over the years, many articles have been published expressing the wish for the same by critics and members alike. As long as the attitudes of the leaders remain self-centered and obstinate and hostile to others within the COG's - and as long as the only thing they want is for everyone else to believe exactly as they do, and submit only to themselves as KING - this will remain a fantasy - no matter how well intentioned and good hearted you are in your dream.
I do admire your spirit of togetherness and unification. I can tell you have a kind hearted mindset.
Of course they won’t. Like the Millennium Group in the Chris Carter TV series “Millennium”, after the apocalypse to which they are dedicated fails, they’ll all take on a sinister lust for the power which was denied to them. They want the power which was promised them, the power to rule with fists of iron!
You have to understand the mentality. These people earnestly want, no, they absolutely need the apocalypse to occur. At this point, it is the only thing which can validate the lives which they sacrificed for the movement, the only event which can make their pretending come true!
How else could you have such rejoicing over historic hurricanes, and fires (even in the rain forests of the Pacific Northwest!)!
While other church groups are putting their lives on hold, purchasing their airline tickets to travel far away, and to respond and help in the disaster relief, some people we all know will be gloating and saying to themselves “Ah! He was right!”
There are fifty year old businesses in Hawaii shutting their doors and declaring bankruptcy because of the tariffs imposed in a needless tradewar declared by the ACOGs’ preferred president. He has removed us from the solution to global climate change, even as an island village in Alaska is being slowly swallowed by the sea. But, that’s OK with the ACOGs, because it provides them with one more sign of the endtimes. “We don’t need no stinkin’ humanity, we only worship the law” is the prevailing attitude. To them, anyone who doesn’t is expendable.
It’s a shame. There is nothing wrong with noting problems. There is definitely something wrong with cheering for them, arbitrarily attributing them all to God, and abstaining from mitigating them. You can’t know that they are from God unless you work on solutions, and find that the results of your work are denied, no matter how hard you try!
BB
I have given up - but if they start shedding members more rapidly, maybe they will rethink their positions.
There are non COG groups who keep the 10 Commandments, and some keep the Holy Days as well.
The Jewish Messianic movement is mixed in this regard. Some believing only the Levitical laws were abolished and some believing they were all abolished. But they are tolerant of each other and non Jewish groups.
I think all the COGs should re-examine all their doctrines that are based on prophecy sicen prophecy has not been their strong point. Plus take a hard and detailed look at what parts of the Bible they are not keeping - especially in regard to love for our fellow man.
TLA,
I remember years ago when I was attending the wwcg, there would be some kind of catastrophic event somewhere in the U.S., but nothing would be mentioned about it. It was like it never happened; like the world didn't exist outside our services. No prayers for the people affected, no compassion, nothing. I always wondered why. It broke my heart. But being the obedient person that I was, I never said anything. I kept my thoughts to myself. Deep in my heart, though, I knew something was wrong with that picture.
A WCG minister noted that to anyone the lack of significance of a disaster was proportional to the distance, so an earthquake in China killing thousands was less significant than a stubbed toe.
Dave Pack once said he had negotiated a merger with another one of Rod's rejects (I think it was Raymond McNair and his 21st Century COG) but it failed when Buffy didn't except him as the sole leader. Dave's reason for not helping was given back with Hurricane Katrina - since it was God's way of punishing New Orleans, helping the victims would be going against God. He extended this idea to include any disaster...
Unity is a natural consequence of obeying the ten commandments. So I pray that people nation wide and world wide repent. History shows that the ACOGs are unwilling to do so, ensuring that the circus continues.
Let's be honest. The COGs, however misguided, are more ethical according to biblical values than the average person. So, it is the people of California who should fast, not the churches of God. This article is off the mark.
Church of God groups only ever cooperate and behave at only one place... funerals!.
A fast for Unity...WOW, I believe that good things would come out of it, but I don't think that all of the leaders would want it to happen. Some might just lose their exalted position. Count me in!!
A fast for Unity...WOW, I believe that good things would come out of it, but I don't think that all of the leaders would want it to happen. Some might just lose their exalted position. Count me in!!
7.36 PM
It wasn't my experience that church members were more ethical than outsiders. If that was the case, I would be attending services. That was a generation ago, but I would be surprised if things have changed.
Connie
I recall hearing stories of members being told not to attend funerals of disfellowshipped members. Even family members.
california needs to repent of its neglect of, and oppression of the poor, its fornicating and adulterous culture, its idolatry, its arrogant and self exalting hollywood celebs, its gang and prison violence, its brutal police, etc., etc., etc., before it can ever hope to have this curse lifted off of them...
c f ben yochanan
While I was growing up, if we saw an accident on the way to or from church, we’d look to see if it was some of the brethren. If it wasn’t, my parents would just pass them by even if we were first on the scene. We were also taught that it was wrong to pray for outside friends or relatives, and above all things, never give money to what we then called bums or hobos, because they’d just use it for booze. If there were charity drives, the answer was that we gave to our church, and they gave to select charities. Obviously we didn’t tell people that the charities included our ministers’ swimming pools.
It was a perverse repression of many of the good and natural aspects of human nature. Had to unlearn all that crap when I left, and to develop a more Christlike system of ethics, equally applied to all.
Herbert Armstrong's Humpty Dumpty Church had a great fall. All the Apostles horses and all the Apostles men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again!
Richard
CF, California is not under a curse by any of the gods. The nature of the terrain in Calif is to burn just as the ground is want to shake due to the movements of the North American plate over the Juan De Fuca and Cascadian Plates in Oregon and Washington. The people are just people though admittedly less God-Haunted than the American South and bat shit crazy fundamentalists.
And fasting, which is one of the most useless of endeavors, won't put food in peoples mouths, rebuild homes, comfort the depressed , heal the injured or reunite the Churches of God. That takes work, talk and cooperation where they would need to practice a kind of humility that is foreign to them in their leadership. Dave Pack only sees more money, personal power and narcissistic supply in any such reunification under his obviously suburb leadership.
TLA, feel free to do this on a personal level if it is that important to you.
TLA, feel free to do this on a personal level if it is that important to you.
Our minister did say once that it was okay to help someone in an accident or disaster on the Sabbath. A friend commented it would have looked silly if a niehgbor's house was on fire and we stood there with hoses in hand waiting for the sun to set.
Someone here said that you weren't allowed to attend a funeral of a member that had been put out of the church. How the hell would your local congregation know if you went to the funeral? Surely you kept your personal life seperate from the church?!?! I have NEVER understood why people in the church saw the need to let the minister,or just about everybody in the assembly, know every single detail of their life! Keep your private life to yourself!
If 9/11 did not unite them then nothing will.
9.03 AM
It's not always easy to keep your private life from the church. There's the problem of snitching 'friends' and family members. Also, people read between the lines or tone of voice to discern personal details.
We were told to say (even as I recall some did very smuggly) I already gave through my
church. No matter what for whom or what/how the need was for. That was their problem...let
them take care of it. But you be sure to participate in each $$$ raising activity for the
"church effort." Store inventories, car washings, cook books, stadium concession sales anything/everything to bring in those $$$ for the WWCG. Ubetcha!!!
Like SFB's D.P.: "I had a dream (like L.King did) that ALL of the splinter groups would come
back to the (sheep) fold (my fold, of course) under ONE ministry (mine, of course how could
there be any other?) and I would take up that heavy burden to bear that Elijah & Elisha did.
Don't you know it was "prophesied" to be so??? DP needs to replace the scarecrow in Wizard of OZ to get what the scarecrow admitted he needed. But that would be UNacceptable for one who
is never wrong(or admit being so??). Or..."Once" he was wrong but was only mistaken?
I find it sad but true there will not be any uniting of any cogs because of cause for concern for members. It would only occur for financial reasons. But this to won't happen because they are like nasty little kids in a sand box arguing over who owns the pale and shovel.The leadership of the cogs are callused greedy old men. Cogwa the most inoffensive and most useless, they do lot even try to preach the gospel. Their pathetic attempt using the internet is a joke ( life,hope and truth) is not bringing in any new people. They have no tv or radio programs they do not publish anything but discern magazine that mostly goes to their members. Their leadership is a bunch of good old boys that keep getting reelected by other good old boys hanging on for their retirement. United lets anyone in these days doesn't do much of anything anymore. Living tries to be the Watchmen, loosing members like rats leaving a sinking ship. Restored now is nothing more than a lunatic asylum run by the head lunatic. Pcg.is a nut house that tries to fleece every nickel out of its members so the self aggrandizing drunk can fly in style. Most of the slinters are running on empty little or no holy spirit left in its members.
I already gave through my church
An Australian WCG minister actually suggested to his congregation that they send a donation to help the victims of a natural disaster in Australia. I think this was Cyclone Tracy, that hit Darwin in 1974. Whether the money was sent in the name of the WCG was up to the individual.
Fast for all 50 states. That's 50 fasts. What makes California special? Are they extra evil? Then fast for all 200 nations. That's 200 more fasts. Then fast for all the provinces in those nations. That's about 2000 fasts I suppose. Why just California?
yeah, using ur logic: hurricane sandy can also be explained away even though nyc is not typically hurricane prone; and the hurricane prone south east usually doesnt get hurricanes that are above cat 3...
people also explained away sodom and gomorrah, and pompeii...
yet each these places have/had one thing in common: they are/were all exceedingly sinful, with an evil culture what ranged from sexual deviancy to brutal armed men in uniform persecuting the innocent...
c f ben yochanan
New York was extremely sinful in 1278 AD. Hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanoes happen in certain regions of the world, regardless of the human population or lack there of. California wildfires start from Pacific Power electric power lines, dry conditions, humans, lightning strikes, and Santa Ana winds. Houses just happen to be in the way. As in the past, some day a large meteor will strike the earth. A new massive volcano will effect the world. A massive solar storm will bring the tech age into the stone age. These will happen if the human population is one or 100 billion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_hurricanes
https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/gsa/geology/article-abstract/29/7/615/188804/sedimentary-evidence-of-intense-hurricane-strikes?redirectedFrom=fulltext
"A third, larger overwash fan between 200 and 300 cm depth was deposited between A.D. 1278 and 1438 and is likely the result of a prehistoric intense hurricane strike."
https://www.britannica.com/place/Mount-Tambora
God is the author of confusion. He uses it on those who are working against His purposes, like the guys at the Tower of Babel, Pharaoh’s army, and often the armies of the enemy nations who attacked Israel.
You have to see the WCG as the Tower of Babel, and the ACOG splinters as what resulted after the whole hot mess was spewed from the mouth of God. Then it all begins to make sense, and we can begin to understand why it will never, ever, unite and come back together again!
BB
DON'T THINK FOR YOURSELVES YOU DUMB SHEEP!!!!
Greetings from Charlotte,
We finished a very inspiring series of meetings this week with the Council of Elders. The genuine dedication, unity, and friendship among the members is greatly appreciated. Over the years, I have come to value the advice given to us in Scripture regarding receiving a multitude of counsel (Proverbs 15:22). There truly is safety in doing so, as Proverbs 11:14 reveals. We so often hear of members coming up with different doctrines, fancying themselves as Bible scholars. By the time they come to the ministry, they are so convinced of their own rightness that nothing will persuade them otherwise. The issues raised are almost always peripheral, or doctrines contrary to our longstanding understanding. The Church’s Council of Elders often discusses subjects that may appear simple on the surface, but are frequently more complex than first thought. It is through thoughtful and prayerful discussion with the Bible as the foundation that 15 or more men, who have been in the ministry for decades, are able to come to a sound biblical understanding.
BE HUMBLE YOU STUPID SHEEP!!!!
Humility—Key to Unity: King David wrote, “How good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!” (Psalm 133:1). The Apostle Paul urged Christians to “walk worthy” of your calling “with all lowliness and gentleness… endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace” (Ephesians 4:1-3). Paul also stated that the work of the ministry is to edify the body (build up the Church) “till we all come to the unity of the faith” (Ephesians 4:12-13), and he urged the contentious Corinthians to be “perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment” (1 Corinthians 1:10). The Scriptures reveal that pride is an underlying cause of contentions that work against unity (Proverbs 13:10), and pride can lead to a person’s downfall (Proverbs 16:18). Promoting our own ideas and insisting on our own way can create dissensions, division and strife (James 4:1). However, humility will eventually bring a person honor (Proverbs 15:33; 29:23) and also promote peace and unity (James 3:17-18). Just as Jesus Christ humbled Himself and followed His Father’s instructions (Philippians 2:5-9), we, too, must be subject to God and to government inside and outside the Church (Romans 13:1-2). As we learn to practice true Godly humility and treat each other with genuine love and respect (Romans 12:10-18), we will generate more unity within the body of Christ.
AND DON'T TEACH YOUR CHILDREN ABOUT CHRIST!!!! (we are THE church of God not Christ)
Living Education
How To Use Children’s Bible Lessons
If you are a parent, have you ever wondered, “How do I teach my child the Bible? Where do I start? Where can I go for help?” That’s where the Children’s Bible Lessons come in! Each lesson is specifically written for you to sit down with your child and read together and talk about an important lesson in the Bible. Our suggestion would be to do this with your child Friday night, or Saturday morning, when you have a little more time than on a weekday. (Of course, you can do this any evening, as well!) Read the opening segment with them, point out the scriptures that are highlighted, and turn to them and read them together. Ask your child the discussion questions provided. Don’t just lecture at them. Get them talking! Ask them questions. See what they are thinking. If you have not done this before, it might feel a little unnatural at first. But after a few lessons, you’ll get the hang of it. The main thing? God has given you—as the parent—the responsibility to be your child’s primary teacher about the Bible (Deuteronomy 6:7). And we are here to help you!
Check out the second lessons being posted this week:
Level 1: Lesson 2 “The Re-Creation: Days 1 and 2”
Level 2: Lesson 2 “Where Did God Come From?”
Level 3: Lesson 2 “How Can I Know that God Exists?”
Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!! LCG cracks me up....
The Power of Servant Leadership: Many companies are turning away from a leadership model based on “charm and charisma”—thanks to the realization that effective leaders tend to have more humility. As the Wall Street Journal recently reported, “Humility is a core quality of leaders who inspire close teamwork, rapid learning and high performance in their teams.… Humble people tend to be aware of their own weaknesses, eager to improve themselves, appreciative of others’ strengths and focused on goals beyond their own self-interest” (October 9, 2018). According to Dr. Ryne Sherman, the chief science officer of a company that designs workplace personality tests, “Most of the thinking suggests leaders should be charismatic, attention-seeking and persuasive.… Yet such leaders tend to ruin their companies because they take on more than they can handle, are overconfident and don’t listen to feedback from others.” Dr. Sherman also observed, “Humble leaders can also be highly competitive and ambitious. But they tend to avoid the spotlight and give credit to their teams… They also ask for help and listen to feedback from others, setting an example that causes subordinates to do the same.”
Few today realize these findings actually reaffirm age-old advice found in the Bible that emphasizes the importance of humility. Both Solomon and Jesus mention that service with humility will bring honor (Proverbs 29:23; Matthew 23:11–12). Jesus Christ, who taught and lived a life of “servant leadership” (Matthew 20:20–28), also stated that the “meek” (those who are humble and teachable) will inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5). The Bible is filled with directives that focus on the importance of humility, meekness and other related character traits (see Galatians 5:22–23). While “servant leadership” may be a “buzz phrase” among corporations, it is a biblical characteristic of truly godly leaders. For more on this fascinating and very practical topic, be sure to read or listen to “What Is Servant Leadership?”—Scott Winnail, Francine Prater, and Deborah Lincoln-Strange
"The genuine dedication, unity among the members". And if one of the counsel members questioned third tithe would they have the backbone to bring it up?
Anon 2:33 PM, I read this as Scott Winnail whining that Gerald Weston isn't listening enough to his feedback. Notice, though, how he twists the Greek πράος to mean "humble and teachable" even though no biblical scholar or dictionary supports that meaning. A much better translation would be "powerless" (as the early Christians were πράος in relation to the Romans). The Greek πράος does not convey the same meaning as the Hebrew עָנָו which the Bible uses to describe the "meek" Moses, nor does either connote "teachability" which is a completely presumptuous inference invented by Professor Winnail.
yup, if all these tandem disasters were purely a matter of natural chance they would have been the norm since the time the first humans set foot in "north america"...
in the world of science there is such a thing as cause and effect, action and reaction, and it so happens that the actions of mankind are causing catastrophic reactions in the climate of the earth; and said actions are rooted in that good ol faithful, time honored, spiritual behavior known as "the love of money", a behavior what is based upon demon influenced human nature...
c f ben yochanan
Fasting.. to get God to change his mind? About what?
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