I made a very strong statement in my last submission, where I said that I believed that the Worldwide Church of God was not a Christian Church - because of it's focus on the power of the Enemy. I mentioned a Worldwide News Article which put a lot of focus - not on the saving power of Jesus Christ - but on the extreme influence that Herbert believed Satan was having on the Church.
The message he was giving the Church on December 8, 1980 was not by any means a Christian message of reassurance of the power of Christ. The message was a message which was completely and totally wrapped in a suffocating dose of fear of the enemy, lest you start to think in any way against him, the Church, the Church's Government, doctrine, or the ministers - lest suddenly you come under the influence of the evil one. Check out these quotes.
FROM THE WORLDWIDE NEWS, DECEMBER 8, 1980
"If you allow a bit of self-centeredness, vanity, covetousness, envy or jealousy, spirit of competition or resentment of authority - especially that of the Government of God and His Church - to enter your mind - if you begin to act on such impulse, you have already entered Satan's way."
The Christian focus would not be stating "you have already entered Satan's way" - that's fear religion. The Christian focus would have talked about prayer, and that the Battle belongs to God through the victory of Christ. It would be focusing and centered on Christ, not on how you are slipping into the depths of the abyss because of your failures and imperfections. Because when you start to focus on what you are doing wrong all the time, you aren't focusing on the positive, but the negative, and your growth is stunted. It's amazing how much of this entire diatribe is resolutely and powerfully negative.
Then Herbert says:
"I would never want to put myself in the hands of a psychiatrist or therapist. If one would ask me to totally relax my mind, and let my mind be blank, I would immediately rise up and walk away. If I should obey I might open the door of my mind to a demon."
More fear religion! It's as if he never believed that Christ is in you, anyway! Where's Christ in you? Where's God? If you let your mind calm down, if you let your thoughts ease - was he saying Christ was never in you in the first place? Is he saying that Satan is more powerful than Christ? That letting your mind be blank in calmness forces out the Holy Spirit or Christ in you? Because that certainly sounds like that's what he's saying, isn't it? Herbert said:
"Under normal circumstances, NO ONE NEED FEAR A DEMON MAY TAKE POSSESSION, unless you open your mind by letting it be blank, or under control of another, or you lose your mind in an emotional angry rage"
There's no "unless". If you have Christ in you, you are a new creation. This is biblical. The old is gone, the new has come. You are under control of Christ. He has purchased you. He has adopted you. His fruits are evident in you. The Holy Spirit resides with you. Having a calm and sound mind - peaceful (blank) doesn't case Christ out or allow Satan in. Christ is far more powerful than that! Where's the power of Christ? I am often amazed how many times Herbert relegates Christ to one of the most innefective, wimpiest, non-powerful entities ever to exist in his writings - utterly powerless in so many ways.
Then Herbert says:
"Satan is going about seeking whom he may destroy from God's Church and Kingdom. Don't let the one he destroys be YOU!"
Again. Where's the power of Christ? Where's the message of Adoption? Reconciliation? Victory? And is the Battle the Lord's - or ours? Who told us to fight our own battles? The Battle IS the Lord's - and were we taught this?
Here is one of the most Anti-Gospel things that Herbert Armstrong ever said:
"Don't think, well that applied to them, not to ME! Be sure you do not start, even so little at first, even in Satan's direction. Let no jealousy or contention of any kind against another -whether another member or another YOUR RANK in the Work, even start to KINDLE in your mind! For God is NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS. For if God spared not even the ANGELS that sinned He would no more spare YOU!"
Is Jesus emphasized here? No. Is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit emphasized here? No. Are the fruits of the Spirit listed here? No. The message here is fear of Satan, not living in the presence of Jesus Christ. For the Believer, the Devil has no power - a message absolutely absent from Herbert's anti-Christian message. Where is the Lord at all in this diatribe? Anywhere? No, the message he gives is that there is not an indwelling Holy Spirit working in and with you. The picture that is painted is of an absent Holy Spirit and an open door to an empty house, where there is no Jesus, and no Spirit, and no indwelling Christ in you, where the slightest sinful thought or action sends Jesus cowarding aside, where there is no room for repentance and forgiveness as an adopted Son of God - just FEAR of a devil that will creep in at the slightest wayward thought. What kind of Gospel message is this? Where's the victory over sin and death the Bible talks about? Where's the power of God? Where's the "new creation"? Where's any Christian message in any of this? Herbert said "If God spared not even the ANGELS that sinned he would no more spare YOU!". HELLO! John 3:16 Says that God so loved the World that He (ALREADY) gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life! HELLO, JESUS has already spared us through his death, resurrection and life! Who is he talking to here? Believers, or unbelievers? Christians, or non-Christians? I say again, WHERE is Jesus Christ in ANY OF THIS?
Let me make this stronger. Was JESUS MENTIONED AT ALL? Not in the Context of the Gospel. Not in the Context of victory in Jesus Christ. Here was Herbert's message in a nutshell: 'Satan is wrathful against the Government of God and if you go against the Government of God you let Satan in." Meaning, the Church - meaning Herbert Armstrong.
Herbert says in this article if ONE POINT of "truth" is rejected, the Spirit of God "leaves you". Where is this biblical? Where is "I'll never leave you, never forsake you?" In retrospect, we can know that a lot of what Herbert taught was not truth - but lies. A lot of what was taught was unscriptural, presumptuous, and heretical - and when it came to prophecy, outright and blatant lies. This is what you were told not to reject, or "the Spirit" would leave you. What was the truth here? Was it what Herbert told us - or what history reveals the actual, real truth actually was?
This entire diatribe was written during a time of "attack" on the Worldwide Church of God by the State of California in December of 1980. What this really was was fear religion - trying to keep people on board the Church, his idea of government, his key points on the Sabbath and Holy Days - making people believe any rejection of THESE POINTS - was akin to rejecting Jesus Christ - and opens the door to the devil. He would use language like these two sentences - which are his direct quotes, over and over:
"Satan is more subtle and diabolically clever than we, many times over."
"Now Satan will try harder than ever."
Instead of focusing on the power of Jesus Christ, the love of God, the indwelling of the Spirit, Christ in us, the Holy Spirit as Teacher and Instructor, the adoption of sonship we have in Christ, the New Creation we are in Christ through Jesus, the reconciliation of mankind to the Father, and our personal relationship with the Living Christ - a relationship not built in fear, but in victory - a relationship built in love and atonement with God - we were told that all of that did not matter in the event we doubt or actually think negatively about any of the lies that we were told. The devil was used as a trap to keep people from seeing the truth about Freedom in Christ and Christ in Us in His victory through Him. I sure never saw THESE scriptures mentioned!!!
“He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust. Surely he will save you from the fowler’s snare and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart…” Psalm 91: 1-4
"This is what the Lord says to you: 'Do not be afraid or discouraged because of this vast army. For the battle is not yours, but God's. 2 Chronicles 20:19
"In all these things, we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. - Romans 8:37
"But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." - 1 Corinthians 15:57
“Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' says the Lord of hosts.”- Zechariah 4:6
"But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one". - 2 Thessalonians 3:3
"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." - John 16:33
“One of your men puts to flight a thousand, for the Lord your God is He who fights for you, just as He promised you." - Joshua 23:10
submitted by SHT
28 comments:
Satan... The one who is God's enemy and tool. God deceives no one but lets satan.. God is not the author of confusion but lets satan be the ghostwriter. If the bible is true, then allowing the supervillain to be in charge of creation and even exist for humanity to be deceived seems like child neglect, assuming we are God's children and he loves us. As long as he creates a world with the villain continuing to be active and evil, I'm pretty sure the God of the Bible isn't good. Just as normal human parents wouldn't let Hitler continually babysit their kids.
Neither seems good, or a good alternative.
By Herbert's own standard, he should remember that he rejected several points of truth held by COG7 (including their rejection of a couple of his wildest ideas about Holy Days and British-Israelism). By Herbert's own standard, the Holy Spirit must have left him, which would certainly explain the remaining years of his ministry.
The WCG was about as Christian as the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons and even the Catholics. That is to say, they all in varying degrees integrated the figure of Jesus into their dogmas. But otherwise these are all fear-based cults whose purpose is to enrich those at the top at the expense of those at the bottom.
Who were the half dozen evangelists that were dismissed I wonder, and what were their false doctrines?
STRANGE how HWA quotes PAUL to defend his alleged restoration of early-Christianity..
.. as much of Pauline Theology stands in stark contradiction to Armstrong Theology!
In fact just ~10 years after this screed, WCG leaders would give up on defending Armstrongism!
Perhaps HWA was so fearful of demons controlling his mind seeing he allowed himself to be overtaken in a fit of derangement to commit incest with his own daughter. Perhaps he was projecting his own fears and vices on others all throughout his ministry.
The existence of "Free Will" creates lots of religious and philosophical conundrums.
Something I didn't mention in the main post is the timing of the post: December 8th.
It isn't a coincidence, in my opinion, that this was posted JUST before Christmas. Subliminally, I think Herbert was saying - but not saying - that by doing any Christmas stuff, you'd let a demon in because you've rejected a "point of truth". Of course, the motivation, if true, would be to take in as much cash to his "work" then any cash going towards Christmas celebrations by the internal liberals of the Church who did things "in private". When you juxtapose his writings with timings of events known to be those that cause a depression in the "work", you can see a very distinct and obvious trend.
"Perhaps HWA was so fearful of demons controlling his mind seeing he allowed himself to be overtaken in a fit of derangement to commit incest with his own daughter. Perhaps he was projecting his own fears and vices on others all throughout his ministry. "
So if true - and I think there's some merit to this - where was Jesus? Anywhere? Did Herbert Armstrong truly have any real trust and faith in Jesus at all - or was he so wrapped up in sin and profit that Jesus was merely a selling point for his family business?
"By Herbert's own standard, he should remember that he rejected several points of truth held by COG7 (including their rejection of a couple of his wildest ideas about Holy Days and British-Israelism). By Herbert's own standard, the Holy Spirit must have left him, which would certainly explain the remaining years of his ministry."
Anything Herbert believed was truth to him.
Anything anyone believed against what Herbert believed was false to him.
This was the black and white thinking of Herbert Armstrong who believed everything he believed was a revelation from God. Yes, he was THAT into himself.
"You're so vain.
I bet you think the Church is about you
You're so vain
I bet you think the Church is about you
dont you, dont you"
Do not underestimate Satan. Consider what he did to the so-called Church of God.
He got the best of GTA and his shameful lusts with his little CGI and ICG rebel groups. GTA could have inherited the WCG, but instead he inherited dust.
He made Dart Born to Lose.
He totally blew up the WCG under the apostate Tkaches. Virtually everything changed, except for tithing, of course.
He got Meredith in his GCG and LCG groups to make idiotic “doctrinal upgrades” to put the stamp of his foolish pride and competitive nature on his own groups.
He split the supposedly “United” church into UCGaIA and COGWA, and got both of them to observe X-mass while pretending that they do not.
He blinded all of Hulme's followers in his UCGaIC with a powerful lack of vision to simply waste all their time.
He raised up vicious false prophets like Flurry and Pack to start satanic imposter cults like the PCG and the RCG to pass off the tyranny of Satan as the government of God.
He raised up goofs and retards like Weinland and Thiel to start the COG-PKG and CCG joke groups.
He raised up numerous rebellious idiots like Edwards and Malm to cause division and confusion by spreading the Serpent's News and by Shining Blight.
Never underestimate Satan.
8:29, the men who presided over the church and splinters were perfectly capable of making all these moves themselves. All were based on normal human patterns. Satan was not required.
Herbert Armstrong used Satan and alleged attacks as secondary validation that HWA and WCG were of God. After all, if Satan would actually note and attack a work, then the work must be of God, right? But, it never was. The incest which you conveniently failed to mention cursed and doomed HWA's ministry from its early days. It's why the prophecies and original 1975 timeline resulted in failure. As HWA would tell it, the 1930s where when God was revealing His truths to HWA. Can you honestly imagine God revealing truths to HWA during the day, and come bedtime, HWA would be on his way up to Dorothy's room?
The whole movement was of Satan. God was never part of it. In fact, if you look at it now, it's easy to know that all of the splinters were spewed from the mouth of God.
BB
8:29
Thank you, you have succinctly proved my point.
Clap. Clap,..... Clap.
I will simply say in response:
Satan is nothing to adopted, spirit-filled Believers because of and compared to Jesus Christ. N. O. T. H. I. N. G. And His believers know that, and know that well.
8.29 AM
Where is free moral agency in your world view? You freely used your mind in coming up with all your examples, yet insist that we are mindless puppets of Satan.
Your very post contradicts your claim.
Or do you believe that you are the only free person on this planet?
Or, or, perhaps 8.29 AM was inspired by Satan to make his contradictory point in order to discredit those who warm about him. Beware of 8.29 AM, he could be of Satan.
"Never underestimate Satan."
Thanks for giving this warning twice, Anon 8:29. I'm taking it to heart.
Just this morning, my dentist fitted a temporary crown to a broken molar. I note with alarm that "molar" and "moral" are the same except that two letters are flip-flopped. If Satan comes to my quiet rural township seeking whom he may devour, and if he happens to be dyslexic, he could easily misread the situation and assume the crown is shielding me from a character defect, not a mere dental one. So now, thanks to you, I am keeping my jaw clamped shut to keep him from stealing my crown.
Retired prof
You actually made me laugh out loud. That was hilarious!!! Thanks. And now it’s time to take a nap.
I assumed 8:29 was speaking tongue=in-cheek.
In the "spirit" of staying on topic. Some of the fine christian folk might argue that this weekends shooters were "daemon" posessed and some of the commie atheists might find the persons were mental patients. Either way, what part of their misdeeds was under "their" control, so when does one administer a death penalty? If so, what does it matter if you are not killing the demon in the process?
Just some random thoughts. Feel free to not answer.
Nck
10:54 Retired Prof.
May I take your plot to S. Spielberg and propose a diabolical movie themed "Jaws?" I have a gutfeeling something along those lines might just work.
Nck
AnonymousAugust 5, 2019 at 8:29 AM wrote:
"...Do not underestimate Satan. Consider what he did to the so-called Church of God...
...He split the supposedly “United” church into UCGaIA and COGWA, and got both of them to observe X-mass while pretending that they do not..."
In regards to the United Ass. and COGWA Ass., 2 blind associations Matt 15:13-14), are too blind to see Satan in Santa to see how different Christmas is if compare with God's annual holydays.
And all they needed to do was move that "n" in santa to the end, and voila! One has Satan.
Additionally, besides not placing the judging/blaming wholly on human beings it appears you do believe the words Paul mentioned in Eph 6:12
It is just a huge satanic mess of confusion out there in this present evil world, but it isn't forever.
And time will tell...
John
The Bible says that Satan deceives the whole world.
About a billion Roman Catholics are basically into paganism and do not even know it. They have a real hate-on for the things that God said in the Bible, such as to observe the Sabbath.
About another billion Protestants fulfill the old saying: Like RCC mother, like Protestant daughter.
About a billion Muslims think that they can do whatever their lusts desire to whoever they call infidels.
Evilutionists came up with their religion of secular humanism to promote pornography, fornication, adultery, prostitution, abortion, homosexuality, transvestism, bestiality, gender confusion, and tattoos.
Interestingly, many Catholics and Protestants actually like secular humanism and live by its lack of values in actual practice.
There does appear to be a lot of deception in the world.
Nck: I believe that some people are just untrinsically evil, filled with hatred, and undeserving of their space on the planet. Others are criminally insane, and led by their particular pathologies. Whichever the case, if someone kills, and it's not an accident, or due to participation in a war, they need to be held accountable. I also believe that Jesus has the demons tethered during our contemporary era. Certifiably insane people can certainly mimic ancient Bible descriptions of the demons today, but many religious people escalate automatically to "demons" when there are perfectly logical, scientifically based explanations for perpetrators' behavior. Plus, if they happen to be ministers, they justify and validate their own existence by citing demons, or claiming demon attack.
BB
Anon 2:27PM - you are on to something here - those evil evolutionists and their tattoos.
If we just get rid of tattoos, all the evils of the world will go away.
Or were you just trying to be funny? (I hope you were.)
Hmm somehow my posting didn't get through on the "intrinsically evil."
It sounds like immutability, unchangeable, self evident or inallianable.
Calvinisms predestination came to mind.
I could have let it go, but one should get their philosophy/pondering straight when dealing with (eternal) life and death issues. Cannot bend an anti armstrongism stance and popular opinion into thoughts as crooked as some evangelists bookcases.
Nck
NCK there is no post that has come through from you on "intrinsically evil."
7:59 no2hwa. Must have been the occassional technical glitch. Sorry for the "appearance of "censorship" my, off the cuff remark may have given. I for one have no reason to believe that is the case evaluating my track record.
Corruption of the human mind or the possibility for upgrading are topics that I enjoy. Either with or without demonic influence. Where do we draw a line? Are people with Alzheimers under angelic protection or vulnerable to demons? If one believes a murderer is demon posessed or influenced, who should be held accountable in court? If you do not believe that how much should we take into account a persons mental warping horrible childhood in court and where is the redeeming power of a prison system or is it a "tax" calculation?
Just saw "The Conjuring" the other day. Not for the faint hearted. But I though I might get some answers, since the mother did manage to evict the demon eventually, after much sweating on my and her part.
Nck
You’d have to have a theocracy run by people who really did have a direct commection with the three elements of God in order to make those sorts of guilt or innocence judgments, nck. The bad news is that Armstrongism was, and continues to be (via splinters) a fake version of that, meaning that we’ve all got hangovers from it and therefore cannot be completely objective.
Who knows where human spirits came from in the first place? God says He knew us by name from the foundations of the universe. Is that metaphoric, or literal? I have suspected that the intrinsically evil may actually be incarnated fallen angels, being given a chance to shed and overcome the evil through a human life. There is a theoretical difference between that and possession. Others could be new souls. There are so many mysteries to our consciousness. Philosophers and holy men have wrestled with these concepts for thousands of years.
Alzheimers has opened entirely new lines of thinking. This is a disease in which a person’s entire personality and set of memories gradually vanish. Are they responsible for the acts they might commit when this is gone? Can an individual with the Spirit of God actually get Alzheimers or dementia? Is Alzheimers the ultimate form of zen? Of purity? There is so much about which we can only speculate, and hope that our worst nightmares never come to pass.
BB
"I have suspected that the intrinsically evil may actually be incarnated fallen angels, being given a chance to shed and overcome the evil through a human life."
The closest I have come to thoughts like these were in the Pokhala Palace at Lhasa. Surrounded by what westerners would interpret as "demon" pictures, smells, yak candles, chinese police and a very bad attack of altitude sickness and the subsequent overdose of aspirine.
My wife likes to haunt me with the thought that "souls come from the Guff" after we watched a "spirit" movie some 25 years ago on my instigation.
Alzheimers as the ultimate transcedent state of bliss or enlightenment.
Another one for on the poster board. I like it.
nck
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