Saturday, August 31, 2019

"Spiritual But Not Religious":


“I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats.”


Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now


"I'm spiritual but not religious" is a concept I hear often and have labeled myself as being. It is more likely a self definition used by those who have come out of a particular organized religious experience either growing up or a specific religion or denomination the participated in in later life and yet found it either terribly unsatisfying.  left over the drama and scandal of its leadership or simply found the teachings to be more burdensome than liberating.  Such was the WCG experience and continues to this day in the splinters for many.  

When I consider myself  "spiritual" , and I don't speak for others, I simply mean I have a tremendous respect, awe and curiosity about the Universe I live in.  Learning about it has left me with a wonderful sense of being a part of and not separate from all that is.  Or as it is said,  "I am in the Universe and the Universe is in me."   I don't mind, in fact am in awe, that every atom in my body came from the core of an exploding star. Every bit of iron in my blood, same. I don't mind being made up of the Universe, conscious and observing itself.  Very poetic and "spiritual" to me. 


 I also find it more incredible, and not disturbing, to define humans as the model of a "Conscious Hairless Ape" that has evolved over millions of years to what we presently are and yet still short of what humans shall become in time. But you knew that.   I would also note that if we were "Conscious Hairless Horses" our God or gods would be some form of supernatural horse. The image we'd have been created in would be that of a horse. That's how we are wired to think it seems. 

My interest in and collection of stone tools, most thousands of years old and several millions , speak to me of those who have come before, lived, laughed and loved out their lives with all its drama and trauma and are no more.  To pick up a stone tool in a field, or from the riverbed that someone dropped or lost thousands of years ago is a spiritual experience to me. It tells me to live now while life is mine to live. 

Grooved  Hammerstone/Axe I dug out of the bottom of the Willamette River one morning last summer before work in a location occupied for the over 11,000 years. 


I have spent many a night outside in the heat of summer or blast of winter (a better time to view) with my telescope reminding myself  of what's "out there" and feeling that spiritual connection with it all.  Believe me, that telescope got me through the Fall of GTA, the Receivership in the late 70's and most of the other BS WCG inflicted on my psyche as a church pastor. 

Perhaps it's just a connection, but in this sense, that is my definition of spirituality.  It is not a religious feeling. I certainly don't need to prove it's there with 10,20 or 30% of my income or driving all over creation to be with the group while others tell me/us how it all is. 

Just the view on the way to work and from the neighborhood was a spiritual experience in deep time.
Mt Hood is 500,000 years old and the dip in the hills is the gap through which the Missoula Ice AgeFlood waters of 15,000 years ago poured through into Portland at 600 feet deep. Now in South Carolina is only get to see Walmart and Target....sigh. 

Sitting on top of Mt Hood over looking Mt St Helens and Adams or time on the Oregon Coast was easily a "spiritual experience" and reflective times for me. It spoke of deep time and the forces and processes that have long gone on to bring us to this present scene. 

Sitting "alone" along the Willamette before work one Sunday, this apparition emerged from the water and rather startled me. . I thought the Willamette River Goddess had come to take me home.  It was a spiritual experience until I spotted the photographer on the beach. :)

Spirituality seems the default position we take when religion has driven us mostly mad. It is the difference, perhaps, between cats and dogs.  In religion, like a dog, one is trained to sit, eat, roll over and come when called.  Cats, not so much are tend towards a good symbol of the spiritually minded person, however that translates for them, who have come out of religion or never had a taste for it to begin with.


 https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-spiritual-and-vs-religious/

Religion and spirituality are two concepts that go hand in hand and are discussed together almost on all occasions. Both are essential aspects of a human being’s life that help them gain a deeper understanding as to what their lives and existence are about, thereby, helping them to cope with the regular ordeals of life.

What is Spiritual ?

Being spiritual can be defined as a process of personal transformation that is in accordance with certain religious ideals. However, since the 19th century, spirituality has been separated from religion and has been more focused upon experience and psychological growth. There is, however, no single widely-agreed upon definition for spirituality and thus, it can be any blissful experience of meaningful activity. However, according to Waaijman, spirituality can be traditionally defined as the effort to recover the original shape of man in the image of God. However, in modern terms, spirituality would denote a process of transformation which is triggered by a meaningful activity and is a very subjective experience.

What is a Religious ?

A religion can be described as a philosophy or method of thought based upon an organized set of cultural beliefs and systems created by man with the intention of bestowing a meaning to the human existence. This is done so by putting communities in communion with a higher power through rituals, stories and beliefs. It is an open community that usually allows freedom of thought to its members, its principles having been established and accepted by large groups of people for a long period. In most cases, one is often born into one’s religion while others choose or convert into a religion of their choice after experiencing, researching and extensive studying out of their own free will. Being religious would mean wholeheartedly believing and placing faith on these beliefs as preached by one’s own religion and arduously following its practices and rituals.

What is the difference between Spiritual and Religious?

It is a given fact that religious and spiritual are two terms that are often discussed in similar contexts. However, the term “spiritual, but not religious” being in trend these days , it is important to note that while a religious person is most definitely a spiritual person, a spiritual person is not always religious. So that is where the differences commence.
• Religion is a tangible theory where importance is attached to worshiping idols, symbols and fixed ideals. Thereby, being religious involves placing faith upon such tangible aspects. 
The concept of spirituality does not include idols or symbols and as such it has more of an intangible, vague quality.
• Religion has a basic moral code, a set of core values and a story outline.
 Spirituality does not feature such characteristics.
• Religions are based upon rituals that are strictly and ceremoniously followed by those who are part of that religion. 
Spirituality does not feature such rituals and the practices followed in spirituality are subjective. Some may follow methods such as meditation while others may engage in chanting, et c. However, these methods are not customary to be followed.
• Religion and its ideals are based upon the teachings of a religious leader who has thus set up such ideals with the aim of guiding the people towards nirvana, salvation, etc . 
Spirituality is focused upon the inner cultivation of a person. This is done so with the aim of enabling the individual to reach a higher plane of being.
• Religion brings societies together by common beliefs, rituals and customs and thus features entire communities of believers. This also contributes towards lending a helping hand towards members of the community by way of providing alms, engaging in community service, etc. 
Although spirituality believes in good will towards others, it is more of an individual practice. While there may be small communities that hold common spiritual beliefs, it is a rather secluded practice which features communities much smaller than the communities found in religion.
Being spiritually minded, no matter one's definition or experience with the concept, is indeed life and peace.  Organized Religion and the never ending and never quite satisfying search for "the One True Church" complete with the exact right things to believe do and give up….., not so much.  

Thoughts?

22 comments:

Kieren said...

I have the continual feeling that life has no inherent spirituality, that there is no higher power, and that there is no deeper meaning.

I laugh inside when I hear people talk of their spiritual experiences and the confidence it gives them in some sort of higher power. My subjective experience gives me the exact opposite.

If we call spirituality a wonder nd awe about nature, then yes, I might be spiritual. But I think it's not a good term to use to describe such a feeling, because it's already too caught up in the connotations of the supernatural. My awe and wonder has everything to do with the physical and not the supernatural.

Anonymous said...

I once knew an excellent stone tool maker. He taught me flint knapping. We would get flint from the flint hills of Kansas. Indians from a wide area would congregate there in prehistoric times to hunt buffalo near raw material for tool making. This was a gray flint with a limestone cortex. Many times there would be fine grains of limestone in the flint that would affect the fracture pattern so we would look for the most uniform, homogeneous flint we could find. He would reduce large nodules to workable flakes using a "chipping hammer" - a smaller nodule of the same flint. He always developed a strategy for breaking the rock so as to produce the most useful flakes or blanks. Sometimes he would create a "striking platorm" in the rock to get what he wanted. I took a lot of strength and expertise to reduce the rock. I would get a flake from him and using a smaller hammer start shaping the stone. A small flint nodule with a soft limestone cortex was best for use as a hammer. The soft toothy limestone cortex provided a bit of "bite" in working the rock. This was a repetitive process called "turning the edge." I would then use an pressure flaking tool and a piece of leather as a support to put on the final edge. I got to the point where I could make a passable hide scraper. I once did a demo of this to a science class at AC/Big Sandy. Oddly, nobody in the Plains Indian tribe I belong to knows how to make stone tools any longer. I learned this from a White man who was an artist and had taught himself. There is something spiritual in it - man and rock.

Dennis said...

Kieren that pretty well sums up my own view actually. Thanks!

Dennis said...

Very cool NEO. I have three post ice age fluted Clovis pts and it's not an easy task.

Anonymous said...

clearly, invisible forces, unknown sources have led to our existence, and have done so without our input or permission...

peculiarly, alternative forces have also influenced us to deny the obvious: that we are not in control; and not only do we have nothing to do with our own conception, but we have no control of our ultimate demise...

yet, our existence not withstanding, even in the face of our inherent, and demonstrative physical limitation, we still tend to persist in the delusion that there is no invisible force contribution: typical meat headed folly...

irony of ironies: indeed, is not the denial of our obvious limitations a sign of outside influences???

c f ben yochanan

please stop censoring me...

TLA said...

Dennis - have you read “Homo Deus”?
The author seems to be on the same wavelength as you.
I have been listening to the audiobook.

Anonymous said...

DD comment
Being spiritually minded, no matter one's definition or experience with the concept, is indeed life and peace. Organized Religion and the never ending and never quite satisfying search for "the One True Church" complete with the exact right things to believe do and give up….., not so much.
ASB Comment: I find it difficult limit spiritual to an interest in the formation of the universe and the details of matter and life. What hope is there for human life when everything comes from dust and goes back to dust. I have yet to see any life that would be worth living with a future that was devoid of seeing human life as a supreme existence. I personally believe the Judeo - Christian faith is the religion that offer the best hope when it is properly understood. To me human history has suffered when religion was not a part of family life. ASB

Al Dexter said...

I don't claim to be either spiritual or religious anymore. I'm a realist who respects good human feelings and cares about the world and my fellow humans. That's all in the mind and there is no "spiritual" component to it as far as I am concerned. We're physical beings with physical minds that can get very messed up and warped. There is no "spiritual" component involved as far as I can see from my present perspective.

Anonymous said...

Dennis:

The artist who taught me flint knapping never mastered the art of fluting (Folsom, Clovis).
When he tried to strike a flake that ran lengthwise from the base, it almost always broke the point at a 90 degree angle to the strike at about the middle. He experimented with this for years without reconstructing the technique. I thought it was just an enigma of history. Then I was in a tourist shop around Rocky Mountain National Park and on the counter there was a bowl of points that had been fluted. They looked fresh and I asked the woman at the counter where they had come from. She said she made them. I was blown away.

Neo

Retired Prof said...

I don't know what the word "spiritual" means, but I have used it from time to time socially, the way most people say "Merry Christmas" or COG members say "The best feast ever!"

After my daughter joined an intensely religious group (one that often attracts hostility) and I saw that it fit her intellectually and emotionally, I thanked her clergyman for "meeting her spiritual needs." The clergyman knew what the phrase meant to *him,* even if it was a puzzle to me.

Was I being hypocritical? I don't think so. I wanted the man to know I loved my daughter and wanted the best for her. He could relax about my attitude toward him and the religion. The comment communicated those ideas more effectively than a direct statement would have.

Anonymous said...

Al Dexter said...
I don't claim to be either spiritual or religious anymore. I'm a realist who respects good human feelings and cares about the world and my fellow humans. That's all in the mind and there is no "spiritual" component to it as far as I am concerned. We're physical beings with physical minds that can get very messed up and warped. There is no "spiritual" component involved as far as I can see from my present perspective.
ASB Comment: I can agree with what Al Dexter said and the use of "spiritual" component is not used wisely since it implies that gods are beings without form. My view of the Christian faith is that the "God" and the risen Christ are used to point out that human life has a source that has always existed and will always exist if it conforms to the principles and purpose defined by those attributed to Jesus the Christ. This implies that life Jesus the Christ is a way of life that will carry us through this world while contributing to improvements in the world tomorrow. That may sound like I am supporting the COG's but what talking about is a better personal world. ASB

Anonymous said...

An atheist cannot believe in spirituality or anything spiritual.

Byker Bob said...

In pondering the answer to the question presented in the headline, I arrived at one of those occasional “Eureka” bath moments this morning. Well, actually I was in the shower.

Basically, the old addage is true: “You are what you eat!” In this case, it is not physical food with which we are concerned, but the intake from the reading we select, what we view in movies and television programs, what we learn from friends, coworkers, and family, hear on the radio, or learn from various orators including politicians, scientists, and other learned individuals sometimes including theologians.

I believe that HWA had a deep understanding of this, which is why he occupied us to the extent which he did, and saturated our intake of ideas, limited our input from outside sources, and encouraged us to substitute church and the brethren for the relationships humans normally and naturally have in their lives. HWA most likely realized that amongst humans, there is very little original thought. This led to name-calling, and stereotyping, ie “dumb sheep”. We became what we ate. He provided the programming, but we embraced it to one extent or the other and reinvented ourselves as dumb sheep. Even we rebels became what we were by giving HWA and the church the power which fueled our rebellion.

If I were to begin reading up on Buddhism, very soon, my reading would influence my comments here, and by osmosis, those who read my comments would receive the trickle down, and there would gradually be a Buddhist influence on all of us who regularly read and comment here. We actually do witness similar influences here on a daily basis. Fortunately, we have eclecticism and variety here, but it has been obvious for some time that each of the strong regulars here has his or her own choir, consisting of those with whom their ideas resonate. Sometimes, newcomers who observe this phenomenon actually covet and seek such a choir for themselves.

There has also been a handful of what I call the “terminally weird”, or “tragically unhip” who find their ideas blasted and rejected no matter how many times they express them, of develop alternative presentations of the same ideas. Rejection makes some go away, while it strengthens the resolve of others.

As goes “being spiritual”, it has been my experience that most people will allow for the spiritual in their lives so long as someone does not take and use that in an effort to assert power and control over us. We’ve all learned from our Armstrongian experiences that we need to frequently run with our spirit animal the cat. And as we have come to realize and respect, you just can’t herd cats!

BB

Anonymous said...

Retired Prof said...
Was I being hypocritical? I don't think so. I wanted the man to know I loved my daughter and wanted the best for her. He could relax about my attitude toward him and the religion. The comment communicated those ideas more effectively than a direct statement would have.

ASB Comment: Your approach is what all Christians should have. In fact that is good representation of the biblical meaning of GOD's love. If believers in the Christian faith would quit trying to convince people they need to accept Jesus Christ and begin living a life that thinks of the affect they have in communication with other people and avoids things that are offensive we would have less problems in the world and the churches. ASB

DennisCDiehl said...

Retired Prof said " I thanked her clergyman for "meeting her spiritual needs."

That's the whole point isn't it RT. Religion fills our needs and being the complexly psychological and conscious beings we are, the needs are varied and many. WCG fit my need as a teen and for a time as an adult. Then it didn't. Some evidently need to be told by an authority figure how to be and what it's all about. Others not so much. There is a church for every need just as there is a butt for every car seat no matter how awful and cheap or awesome and expensive the car is. A belief that one would not want is a belief that another can't live without.

My own boys take their families to churches I could not sit five minutes in. I tried :) But they will admit it more for community than belief. Some seems like brainwashing but it is non of my business at this stage of their lives. Everyone thinks everyone else is brainwashed anyway! lol.

Mountains, rivers, lakes, streams and forests fill my needs as well as a good look through my telescope, holding a 4.5 billion year old meteorite in my hand, a 450 million year old trilobite or a 15 million year old Meg Tooth and just wondering what all it has been through and seen over all that time.

What About The Truth said...

Having been to the river many times and not seeing the river goddess, I don't know if I could choose whether I was religious or spiritual right now.

Recently tracing my family tree, it looks like my extended fathers were embroiled smack dab in the middle of the covenanters wars in Scotland. Seeking to have and worship God directly without influence and the mandates of Rome and the Pope, they fought, died and many fled the country.

Now living in what is becoming a wilderness I guess; a porcupine just walked up to me in the driveway and then there is the ravening "wolf" (coyote) decimating the small animal population around us. Never owning a cat, we decided to save what was left of the feral litters of kittens from certain death. Not like dogs, they only want attention when they want it. Other times they want left alone and will ignore us.

So it all comes together in the "wilderness". Saved from the ravening wolves of the COG I like the cats am able to seek "God" directly and when I want to. Other times like the cats I want left alone to do my own thing.

So it took ownership of a cat and family history to see that I like my forefathers are a covenanter. That is the label I am giving myself until when or if I ever see the river goddess.

Anonymous said...

DD said: Mountains, rivers, lakes, streams and forests fill my needs as well as a good look through my telescope, holding a 4.5 billion year old meteorite in my hand, a 450 million year old trilobite or a 15 million year old Meg Tooth and just wondering what all it has been through and seen over all that time.
ASB comment: Non of those features of the universe has anything to do with solving the problems that are destructive and corruptive to human relationships around the world. ASB

Anonymous said...

Kieren said...

I have the continual feeling that life has no inherent spirituality, that there is no higher power, and that there is no deeper meaning.

I laugh inside when I hear people talk of their spiritual experiences and the confidence it gives them in some sort of higher power. My subjective experience gives me the exact opposite.

If we call spirituality a wonder nd awe about nature, then yes, I might be spiritual. But I think it's not a good term to use to describe such a feeling, because it's already too caught up in the connotations of the supernatural. My awe and wonder has everything to do with the physical and not the supernatural.
August 31, 2019 at 4:57 AM


That's simple,because you are a self-righteous sanctimonious jackass.

Hope that helps you with your "dilemma".

Anonymous said...

5:29

"That's simple, because you are a self-righteous sanctimonious jackass.

Hope that helps you with your "dilemma".

Start your Saturday night drinking early?

Well spoken Kiernan

Dennis said...

529...Put the beer down..step away from the beer..

nck said...

I like ASB and nothing Dennis says can shake any faith I might harbor.

Although this morning the pope got stuck in an elevator for 25 minutes until the fire brigade got him out.

What profound message is being communicated to Christianity here?

Nck

Byker Bob said...

Lethal combination: Adult beverages + low mentality + little self-control = ad hominem attacks.

BB