Thursday, August 29, 2019

Armstrongism’s Assyrian Problem


Armstrongism’s Assyrian Problem



Herbert W. Armstrong proclaimed that the key to prophecy was the identity of the British people as the principal, modern descendants, along with the Jews, of the Biblical patriarch Israel.  An important arc in this scenario is the identification of the German people, the agent used by God to punish Israel, as Assyria.  These two propositions make it possible for proponents to project Biblical prophecy dealing with ancient Israel and Assyria into the arena of modern nation-states and attaches meaning and relevance to World Wars 1 and 2.  The problem, for Armstrongists, is that the Germans are not Assyrians. 

An Exercise in Inconclusion

In the second volume of the Compendium of World History, which can be accessed via internet, Herman Hoeh makes his argument for Assyria as Germany.  An example of Hoeh’s model of historical interpretation is a reference to the writing of St. Jerome.  Hoeh claims that Jerome witnessed the Assyrians invading Europe as a collection of Germanic tribes.  But if you examine the source written by Jerome, this is not unequivocally the saint’s assertion.  Jerome cites some Germanic tribes that were causing trouble and quotes Ps 83:8: “Assur also joined with them.”  But does Jerome mean this Biblical reference figuratively or literally?  We can’t know.   The term “Assur” can be an epithet like the term “barbarian hordes.”
Moreover, Jerome lived circa 347 – 420 B.C.  We know from archaeology and genetics that Western Europe was invaded by the early forerunners of the Germans around 5,000 ya (q.v., David Reich, Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past) and are called Steppe Pastoralists and identified with the Corded Ware people.  Consequently, we must classify Hoeh’s argument here, and his similar arguments elsewhere, as inconclusive. 
Hoeh also mentions the physical appearance of the Assyrians – they are Caucasians.  But he omitted an important issue – they depict themselves uniformly as brunette with curly hair, like most Middle Easterners and unlike modern Germans.  But there is uncertainty here as well.  Modern studies of pigments on Neo-Assyrian wall paintings in the palace of Ashurnasirpal II indicate that the Assyrians used just three colors: red, white and black (Li Sou, Digital Recolourisation and the Effects of Light on Neo-Assyrian Reliefs).  All hair and beards were depicted as black.  Proponents of the Hoeh viewpoint could easily posit that even blonde or red hair was depicted as black because of this limited palette.   This seems unlikely.  It is more credible that other hair colorations were not needed to reflect reality.  But here again, the debate does not converge on a conclusion.

A Genetic Deduction

Arguments about Assyrian identity based on ancient historical writings, Hoeh’s mainstay, are unverifiable and may be essentially hearsay from sources contemporary with the ancient authors.  An approach using Biblical exegesis that relies on the science of genetics can be more informative.  
The line of reasoning begins with recognizing that Y chromosome haplogroups (“haplogroup” means Y chromosome haplogroup throughout this text) are inherited in the masculine line and the approximate times of their emergence can be determined from mutational rates of change and the haplogroups are related to each other hierarchically.  Using this approach, Dr. Spencer Wells, a Harvard trained geneticist, determined that Abraham was haplogroup J.  This is because both the Jews and the Adnani Arabs claim descent from Abraham and both are haplogroup J.   This can be extended backward through earlier generations to Noah.  Noah, in Abraham’s masculine line, was haplogroup J.  The same would be true of Shem and Ashur (progenitor of the Assyrians according to the Clans of the Sons of Noah genealogy in Genesis 10) – both are haplogroup J.  From this, we may conclude that whoever the Biblical Assyrians are, they will be haplogroup J.  But the modern Germans are haplogroup R primarily.   They are descended from the Steppe Pastoralists that invaded Western Europe from northern Russia about 5000 ya.  Therefore, the Assyrians cannot possibly be identified with the modern-day German nation.  There are haplogroup J people among the Germans and in small numbers across Western Europe but they are not numerous enough to form the basis of the German nation.
The archaeogenetic data supporting the analysis of this problem could be much better and I expect that it will be in the future.  There is no large inventory of ancient Assyrian genetic data. A few excavations from Turkish sites are useful (de Barros, et al).  It is unfortunate that this data comes from the far northern frontier of the Assyrian Empire and may not represent the main ancient Assyrian demographic.   In these small samples, both haplogroup J and haplogroup G are present.  Haplogroup J is what our exegetical approach above would predict for the Assyrians and that haplogroup is present and more numerous but the sample is very small.  Haplogroup G represents the early Farmers that originated in Anatolia and spread through much of Europe prior to the invasion by haplogroup R.  (Otzi, the mummy from about 5,000 ya and found in the Swiss Alps, was haplogroup G.)  One could argue that the Assyrians were an outlier group of haplogroup G people from Anatolia until further corroborative information for haplogroup J comes in, but that would also not support Hoeh’s construction of the Assyrian identity.  A finding of haplogroup J also supports the prevailing historical/cultural understanding that ancient Assyrians were Semites who spoke a dialect of Aramaic.  It is uncertain if the modern Assyrians, with a mix of haplogroups, are actually connected to the ancient Assyrians.

The Upshot

Herman Hoeh’s teleological approach to history was to create an alloy of traditional belief, myth and historical fact to produce an account that supports the past domination of the world by British-Israel.  But this alloy has proved to be brittle in light of modern genetic findings.  The present evidence, which should further solidify in the future, is that the Assyrians of the Biblical account were haplogroup J whereas modern Germans are haplogroup R in the main.  I would expect Armstrongists to readily accept the validity of Biblical genealogy but balk at the science of genetics.  But, then, the challenge to the proponents of Hoeh’s view is to demonstrate the invalidity of the science of genetics in a credible way.  This will never happen.  We may reasonably conclude that the identity of Assyria as Germany is a chimera and cannot provide a key to understanding Biblical prophecy. 

19 comments:

Byker Bob said...

Well, far be it for Armstrongites to have their apostle’s pet theories corrected by science, history, or dna. It is kind of amusing, though, to watch them backpedal, twist, and reprogram. Or not

BB

TLA said...

They believe DNA tracing is inaccurate just like they believe carbon dating provides wrong results

DennisCDiehl said...

" An approach using Biblical exegesis that relies on the science of genetics can be more informative."

An approach determining human origins that relies on the science of genetics can also be more informative than Biblical exegesis.

I participated in Dr Spencer Wells original Genome Project 15 years ago. Genetics have proved much since then that undoes many a pet theory or speculation. The Mormons have a real problem now with their own story in the Book of Morons. I suspect they will finally have to resort to Ron Weinland's conclusion on his own mistaken notions by chiding the members for not realizing "It is meant as Spiiiiiritual people! You don't get it!"

Having cheek swabbed my spit/genetic mutations into a map of my own journey out of Africa over the past 100,000 years, Hermann Hoeh's views (i.e all Bible Literalist views) on Adam and Eve are also a thing that is hoped or wished for but in fact is illusory and impossible to have occurred as presented. It is a tale borrowed from the Sumerians to begin with a Hebraic twist.



I also suspect this was not written by NO

Hoss said...

Or not

As I just glanced at Bob Thiel's latest post, on the BI origin of Canadians. He assures his readers "I am still researching origins..."

Anonymous said...

Have you ever wondered if Dr. Hoeh actually believed he had a special gift and understanding from God, so when he came up with a theory which fit what he would like to be, he felt is was God inspired? I mean we were taught he had a special gift in that area ----I believed it. It seems that his boss believed that whatever he said was God inspired, or at least claimed that was true because of his 'position', and HH re-enforced that belief.

jim said...

Quick edit: Jerome lived in A.D. not B.C.

Anonymous said...

Hoeh certainly had a "gift" in one area. Asian boys.

Anonymous said...

I have wondered if the fact that Herman Hoeh renounced the Compendium ever reached the Armsrongist hinterland. I continue to see internet publications that are based on the ideas that Hoeh denied. Perhaps, he did not deny everything - I am not sure who can provide a definitive answer to this.

The late Ray Kurr, whose family knew Hoeh well, told me that when Hoeh was asked in later years about the Compendium all he would say is that "I was wrong" with no further elucidation. It is almost as if some splinter groups believe that HWA and Hoeh spoke "ex cathedra" and their words became forever immutable truth - a doctrine with no published rationale that occurs nowhere in the Bible.

Anonymous said...

"In the second volume of the Compendium of World History, which can be accessed via internet..."

Something seems to be missing here. Something usually found near such statements on the internet.

RSK said...

I doubt the writer is interestes in promoting a site that would be carrying it. Just Google it if you're interested.

Al Dexter said...

"I have wondered if the fact that Herman Hoeh renounced the Compendium ever reached the Armsrongist hinterland. I continue to see internet publications that are based on the ideas that Hoeh denied. Perhaps, he did not deny everything - I am not sure who can provide a definitive answer to this."

Hoeh based a lot of his conclusions on a lot of obscure things he ferreted out in bookstores all over the world. Many of those things had long been debunked by reputable scholars but he was probably unaware of the debunking at first. The goal in the early days was to back up HWA's nonsense. The same phenomenon goes on today. I had occasion to look at a list of titles a self-publishing company had on list. You wouldn't believe some of the malarkey that is out there.

Anonymous said...

In Armstrongism, it's never been ""Here is the evidence, what conclusions can we draw from it?" It's always been "Here is the conclusion, what evidence can we make up to support it?"

Anonymous said...

11.06 AM
Nazi guy is back. Yeah sure, Hitler and his armies accidentally crossed all those international borders in order to have a picnic.

TM said...

NEO 8:12. Sorry for taking so long to reply. I hope you are still reading this thread.

I saw Herman Hoeh for over two weeks during the 1984 FOT in Nanjing, China, listened to all his sermons and talked to him quite a lot otherwise. The only sermon notes that I have not long since discarded are the ones that included this trip. It is not in my notes, so he must have told me privately, that there is nothing in the Compendium that he would keep, he renounced the whole thing. I am not aware that the church as a whole was ever told that.

Many other interesting things are in the notes. Here are some:

I see that Gerald Weston was on that tour, and gave sermonettes for the mornings of 15 and 22 Tishri. He worked in Asheville NC and Greenville SC at the time. He told us that many of us were failing in our salvation.

HLH told us on October 6 (Tishri 10, DOA) why the International Date Line was placed in the correct place. It goes back to when the Molad of Tishri occurred.

HLH told us (October 11, 1FT) that the Exodus was 1443BC, not 1486BC. Here is what I wrote: "Exodus in 1443, not 1486. See MacMillan Bible Atlas. Usher was wrong. So before the kingdoms of Israel & Judah everything is 44 years later than previously thought." My memory is that he said "41 to 44 years", and that he said it was due to differences in the chronologies given in Kings and Chronicles. So when I saw him later, I asked if the Return of Christ would be 2016 to 2019 (41 to 44 years after 1975); he refused to be pinned down, a good thing because Tishri 1, 2019CE is just 31 days away and nothing is happening.

Not in any sermon was the Taiping Rebellion. HLH wrote an article about it in the late 1950s, which I read once but have forgotten what it said. It turned out there is a Taiping Rebellion Museum in Nanjing, and on the free afternoon some members organized an excursion to see it. Some brought along their copies of the article. HLH was quite embarrassed when I asked him why it was not an official excursion, and replied that he had renounced that one too, that the Heavenly Kingdom under Hong Xiuquan was actually more like Israel under the Judges.

Anonymous said...

TM:

I think many church members would be surprised if they had ever met Hoeh. I spoke to him once in the Field House at Big Sandy and brought up the then recent book by Barry Fell called "America BC." I felt that some of Fell's arguments aligned with the Compendium. Hoeh told me he thought it was all malarkey - that Fell discovery of ogam script in the New World was bogus. His manner was not pleasant - like he wanted me to just get lost.

Same with HWA - most WCG members would have been dismayed if they had ever met him in person. But somehow these men underwent a kind of apotheosis and their writing are still considered sacred in some quarters.

Neo

TLA said...

Sounds like Herman Hoeh kept learning, and as his knowledge increased, he was willing to change his prior opinions and beliefs.
I heard him give a sermon at Pasadena after the UCG split. He spoke on twins - very interesting, but zero biblical content. I guess he played it safe - stayed with WCG, but avoided being immersed in biblical doctrine.
A lot of people were waiting for him to do something - but he never did.
Maybe some of the people who knew him better can comment on their experiences with him.

Byker Bob said...

It just seems that at some point in time, Dr. Hoeh no longer wanted to get up each morning and be the person he had created in order to succeed in the Armstrong organization.

It had to weigh on his mind that the event horizon in which the church was perpetually existing was not, and would not mature into the actual event. Thus fell the entire purpose for the church as a vehicle for the end-time messenger, and much of the theology. Hoeh was responsible for much of the “research” (actually proof-texting) which had supported HWA’s theories and teachings.

Today, on 30 Av, 5779, it should be perfectly obvious that Usher was not only 40 years off in his Chronology. Certainly that would be problematic for anyone of Herman Hoeh’s intellect.

BB

Anonymous said...

NEO said: “I think many church members would be surprised if they had ever met Hoeh. I spoke to him once in the Field House at Big Sandy and brought up the then recent book by Barry Fell called ‘America BC.’ I felt that some of Fell's arguments aligned with the Compendium. Hoeh told me he thought it was all malarkey - that Fell discovery of ogam script in the New World was bogus. His manner was not pleasant - like he wanted me to just get lost.”

If your account is true it’s disappointing to hear Hoeh seemed to readily dismiss the work of others like Fell all because his own experience and publishing record was based on Armstrong’s fallacies.

I recall coming across Fell’s books back in the 1990s and finding his discoveries and revelations fascinating. I think it was through ex-WCG member Steven M. Collins’ original book on the Lost Ten Tribes that I learned about him.

Anonymous said...

Let's hear about this subject from the Germans themselves! [Part 2]

This also includes A HOLY ROMAN EMPEROR: “The bishops of Trier were already virtually independent territorial magnates in Merovingian times. In 772 CHARLEMAGNE granted Bishop Wiomad COMPLETE IMMUNITY from the jurisdiction of the ruling count FOR ALL THE CHURCHES AND MONASTERIES, AS WELL AS VILLAGES AND CASTLES THAT BELONGED TO THE CHURCH OF ST. PETER AT TRIER. In his will he also ELEVATED the diocese to the Archdiocese of Trier, with suffragans on BOTH SIDES OF THE RHINE. THIS ARRANGEMENT LASTED OVER A THOUSAND YEARS.” For a very long time, the Archbishops of Trier had a lot of power, influence and were connected to people and institutions that knew real history.

These early German leaders were well established and serious about what they knew and practiced, so why would they openly (and for many years) connect themselves to a people known as the Assyrians of Nineveh if it wasn’t a true history that they established Trier? Remember, the Assyrians were known to have a blood thirsty history at times as mighty and cruel conquerors, so you wouldn’t automatically want to be connected to such a people unless there was some merit to the claim. Ask yourselves, what’s in it for the rulers and religious leaders of Trier? Proclaiming TRUTH of their origins, and this they consistently did through the many years. Who they were and where they really came from mattered; it's called truth in written word. The Archbishops of Trier were not leaders of a Church of God espousing the history lost Ten Tribes, etc., they were consistently concerned about their own history as they knew it and they weren’t ashamed of it even in the face of liars and haters—imagine that.

Other ancient sources do connect Assyria with the movements of conquering peoples. Assur is mentioned along with these groups coming into Western Europe:

“In the following letter to Agenuchia, a highborn lady of Gaul, Saint Jerome bemoans the fate of Rome, once so proud and powerful. The letter, dated 409, was written at a critical moment: the Visigoths had accepted a huge ransom to end their siege of Rome.”

Part of the letter reads, “between the Rhine and the Ocean, has been laid waste by hordes of Quadi, Vandals, Sarmatians, Alans, Gepids, Herules, Saxons, Burgundians, Allemanni and--alas! for the commonweal!--even Pannonians. For ‘Assur also is joined with them.’” http://www.historymuse.net/readings/JeromeFATEOFROME409.htm

Jerome had quoted a part of Psalm 83:8 to make his point and to identify one of the peoples (as if the Assyrian’s existence back then was common knowledge among the educated: “Assur also is joined with them” to identify this group as a distinct people who were conquering their way into Western Europe.

Believing what our Creator said in the Bible (that includes the areas concerning end-time prophetic events), in reality, takes His holy spirit. It doesn't matter if Dr. Hoeh denied what he once taught as truth during the lifetime of Herbert W. Armstrong's life. The fact is this: In Satan’s world of lies, we need the holy spirit to apply the many verses in the Bible with the truest accounts of history we can find. Because it’s Satan’s world, much of the history is false. Nevertheless, the recipients of the holy spirit have an advantage over those without that allows the right understanding in the face of all this deception. Believing our Creator's words and promises is essential. With this knowledge it is possible to faithfully wait for the fulfillment of His perfect will.