The most funny humor tends to be that which is unmentionable but strikes us as true nonetheless
"I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God - I really tried. I really really tried. I tried to believe that there is a god who created each one of us in his own image and likeness, loves us very much and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize...something is F--KED UP. Something is WRONG here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is NOT good work. If this is the best god can do, I am NOT impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently run universe, this guy would have been out on his all-powerful-ass a long time ago."
George Carlin
….But He loves You!
If the open observations of those who say what many only think about the way religion seems to actually work in real time or the beliefs that seem incoherent and insane, then I suppose, as believers, you'll just have to forgive them.
Or perhaps a more measured response to religion is in order.
Or perhaps a more measured response to religion is in order.
29 comments:
I use to have doubts about Gods existence. But unlike some people, I acted upon what I understood to be true, worked hard at work, and put out effort to grow as a person. And voila, God started answering my prayers. The doubts vanished.
People who post these types of articles are hiding something. They are lazy or won't let go of some favorite sins. Then out of envy, they come to Banned and try to take others down with them. Like Darth Vader, they defect to the dark side, and become minions of Lord Satan.
Tyson makes the standard errors that materialists make. He is not looking for god but the "bearded man" within the material universe. This is the category error I wrote about recently. Faith is not called faith because there is no evidence. It is called faith because there are phenomena that transcend our understanding, such as being itself. Materialism assumes being as a part of its baseline. Or the understanding that material processes cannot account for the human mind.
Materialism is not about a study of ontology. It is a study of how one physical process gives rise to another physical process and how far back in time we can go with this.
Theodicy is the study of god and evil. The issues Tyson raises in this category have an extensive written analysis.
Tyson's talk, though brief, is a fair representation of the Dawkins-Dennett-Hitchens crowd.
Overall, I like Carlin better than DDH - the same philosophical level but Carlin is funny at least.
It is a natural propensity of any thinking person to crave enlightenment; to want a level of assurance and certainty that goes beyond what man can know and share. In other words, just what the heck is really going on? This is quite the ravenous craving, a craving to know what is going on in the next level, if indeed there is a next level. We seem to be hard-wired for this.
Isn’t that what Herbert Armstrong so effectively pretended to have and to hold out to us? Yet in this, he was not alone. There is a long list of names of others who have exploited these, the deepest longings of the anguished souls of mankind. It is the cruelest of exploitation, leaving in its wake a litany of disappointment and betrayal, but also some who through willpower and self-deception plod on, even though they know deep down inside that those whom they allowed to do their thinking really didn’t have a clue, either.
I’ve always found it interesting that of all the “ascended masters”, only Jesus was represented as being in a position to know what mankind so desperately sought to know, based on His past eternity with the Father. It is not by accident, therefore, that false teachers would scam and misrepresent, especially using Jesus’ name. The fact that they have done this further muddies the water for seekers of enlightenment.
Are any enlightened? What would you do if you were enlightened? Is it something you can teach others, or something that must be divinely bequeathed or individually attained? Is it something so special that it is restricted to a few? Do enlightened people simply do the same things that the rest do, only with a deeper knowledge of what is actually going on, and a more profound sense of purpose? Is enlightenment something which is mutually intertwined with salvation, or is it an entirely separate state of consciousness? Or, is enlightenment actually salvation? Would real enlightenment be a state from which one can fall or depart? If one could fall, what would that say about the quality of the enlightenment? Do we only get faint clues in this life, and never become truly gnostic until death?
So many questions, so little time. The questions above only begin to scratch the surface.
BB
I had second thoughts about this kind of posting myself. But it is a fair perspective and also one of the many results of one's earlier life experiences with their faith and religious views. Have we not all wondered about the concept of prayer even as we prayed? Do we not all see the world as it is with all it's horror in circumstances where it would have been a rather ideal time for God to speak up and intervene? We have our apologetics and thoughts that help us through this lack of action on the part of the concept of a loving God but don't we wonder if one doesn't show up during a world war or the Holocaust, what's with that? Does the answer always have to be, "God is letting mankind learn lessons?" or "I've read the end of the Book and we WIN!"? And we know this?
How many dead Christian children of sincere parents does it take before one has to wonder where are the angels who do watch over them Biblically? This kind of humor, on Carlin's part is born of experiences that do not match the promises one hears from the Bible and the ministry of one's youth and in many ways, big ways. It plays on the mind and certainly makes one question the benefit of just having faith in it all.
Televangelism over the past 40 years has done its own part in giving sincere Christians a heavy dose of skepticism. These men and woman of religion provide enough schtick and scandal to make even the most faithful skeptical and question what kind of God would allow these people to speak for it? Then again, the buffoons of religion we note on this site from our own experiences are men who, for years, were simply moved around from church to church to cause the same kind of havoc and mockery of faith we see them doing today. So getting rid of bad apples was not the WCG way either. Perhaps bad apples don't get rid of their own.
Anon 450. Everyone has something to hide and secret "sins" . It's what humans do when caught up in something that warns them they better not have. The Apostle Paul, while not sharing the nature of the struggle, admitted this about himself.
Romans 7:15-20 New International Version (NIV)
15 I do not understand WHAT I DO. For what I want to do, I DO NOT DO, but WHAT I HATE I DO
16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is SIN LIVING IN ME
18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I CANNOT CARRY IT OUT
19 For I DO NOT DO THE GOOD I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—THIS I KEEP ON DOING.
20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
Paul was a deeply conflicted man in his faith. Said a lot, but he obviously would not share exactly what it was that he couldn't stop doing. Some feel he struggled with his sexuality. Not uncommon and a life threatening struggle in his day to reveal. I doubt he was talking about eating too much sugar.
And too, I am not a Minion of Satan unless you mean a Minion of Nothing as "the Satan" (accuser) is a literary construct for effect in scripture, you know the yin to the yang of the story, but does not exist in reality. I know, "that's just what he wants you to believe"
con't. The Apostle Paul handled his own conflicts of mind by blaming something called "sin" that lived in him. It was not actually him "sinning" but this concept of sin as a thing that can take up residence in one that was to blame. This concept of sin was new to the Bible . In times past it was simply "missing the mark" as in a personal failure to respond properly or be better than some action, reaction or thought.. But Paul turned it into a thing of with a life of its own that was to blame. He turned the common human thoughts, desires, curiosities and needs into "the Devil made me do it so it's not really me doing or thinking this" But yes it was, and like all, just a part of life we all have to face and address if need be.
Paul was admitting that during the time of his ministry and life in his faith, he had some horrific struggles with some specific behavior or thoughts about behaving a certain way that was highly unacceptable to him or perhaps his culture of the times. Some feel his struggle was homosexuality based on his views of women, remaining single and such. This is man who beat himself, literally by his own admission, to keep himself in submission to Christ lest after preaching to others, he himself became a castaway. (I Cor 9:27)
I always wondered if anyone ever asked Paul after he admitted to his profound struggles, "Paul...what exactly are you doing that is so evil and sinful because we might have to ask you leave until you resolve it"? After all, Paul gave some over to Satan in disfellowshipping and marking for doing things which evidently they weren't also supposed to be doing and could resist. (I Cor 5:1)
All that to say 405, and I get your point and understand the need to put people you disagree with in a box that explains them to you, you either don't know the depth and details of Paul's self revelations and admissions, or you dismiss them as somehow being different than the struggles of others.
How often have we seen how King David's obvious flaws, sins, murderous and weird behaviors and "issues" in life are easily dismissed with the one phrase "But David was a man after God's own heart" which might actually be true if one can see God's own flaws, sins, murderous and weird behaviors and "issues" with humanity as He breaks his own laws with impunity. But you'd have to recognize these behaviors or know where to find them in scriptures and not apologize or make excuses for them.
Is it just me, or does anyone else find this N.DeGrasse Tyson to be a pompous-pain-in-the-ass?
Anon 4:50 AM should ask himself why the phenomenon he experienced does ALSO occur with dedicated Muslims, Buddhists, Roman Catholics, Hindus, and even a few Satanists.
I'm worried that Anon 4:50 AM seems to have concluded that it is his righteousness, his lack of particular sins, that has caused his God to communicate with him. Perhaps he should re-read his Bible and consider that if God didn't hear the prayers of sinners, no sincerely repentant sinner would ever be heard. If Anon 4:50 AM presumes to know who God will and won't communicate with, then he is putting himself in a dangerous position.
I have heard a lady that I know make the comment that there is power in prayer. I do not see that. I cannot honestly say that a God has answered any of the many prayers I have done through the years that I was a true believer. As Mr. Carlin stated weather you pray or not you get about half of what you want. Those who believe that there is a God that answers prayer just see the half they get that they wish for and ignor the half they don't get or explain it away saying it was not God's will as the reason they didn't get what they want. Many assume that just because sometimes they get good results from their prayers that God is answering their prayers but could that just be a false assumption?
Let us suppose the claims of the existence of a God are correct. If there is a God, it is not worthy of my worship. One reason of many is the difference between God and myself: It is supposed to be all knowing and all powerful. If I had the power to stop a child from being raped, and knew it was happening, or about to happen, I would do everything in my power to stop it, and rescue the victim. I wouldn't just watch it unfold and do nothing like "God" does.
"Do we not all see the world as it is with all it's horror in circumstances where it would have been a rather ideal time for God to speak up and intervene?" - DD
When Christ gave his disciples an example of prayer, it included the statement "may your kingdom come and may your will be done, on earth as in heaven." This content is clearly intended to enlighten us to the fact that this is not god's world and his will is decidedly not being done here.
But does god always have to stand back from the human fray? No, and he does not. Over the past 2,000 years much good has been done through his church, although one can cherry-pick events and circumstances involving putative Christians that are regrettable (the Dawkins-Dennett-Hitchens is our best group of cherry-pickers). But there are individual cases which break the heart without a doubt and beg for an immediate, pragmatic solution (and sometimes this happens). One can try to figure out what god is doing in these tragic cases and create hypotheses but I have found this is seldom satisfying. The only answer is the Gospel, the fact that Christ came to this earth and died for our ultimate salvation, for our theotic outcome.
(Sorry for the diversion, but I have always marveled that atheists who adhere to materialism can become so incensed at god when they believe that human beings are just an animation of chemicals and chemical reactions, beings without purpose or meaning beyond what can be found in a test tube. A good materialistic atheist would give sanguine consideration to "dead Christian children" and consider this an appropriate Darwinian fate.)
And Paul did not have a "conflicted faith." He had a personal struggle with some unknown weakness.
Anonymous said...
Is it just me, or does anyone else find this N.DeGrasse Tyson to be a pompous-pain-in-the-ass?
It's just you
Modern science shows that Darwin failed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaF7t5wRFtA
The atheist delusion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XIDykeZplU
Dennis
Yes, every Christian, including Paul sins, 1cor 9.5 implies that Paul was married. David sinned by murdering a good man, and paid a price which includes a eternal blot on his reputation.
The difference between a "good" sinning Christian and a "bad" sinning Christian is that the good Christian has made the resolution to go down the narrow gate, not turning to the right or left. He/she has also made the resolution to work hard, Many times I rebuked a church member in a civil manner, only to have them explode in my face. Likewise, these members habitually character assassinate or verbally bash anyone who sins against them. Such members have not made the resolution to live by the ten commandments.
Paul bemoaned not being able to fully live by Gods laws, but note that he still embraced Gods laws. Unlike Pharisee members, he did not let go of Gods laws or give himself the right to pick and choose which laws to obey. There is a difference in attitude and long term behavior.
God is no respecter of persons. He looks at a persons heart and behavior and treats the person accordingly. It's like planting seeds. Plant the seeds at the right depth, the right soil type, the right season, the right amount of water, and the seeds sprout.
As I said, those who claim that God isn't answering their prayers, are hiding some sin of commission or ommission.
Anonymous said...
Dennis
"Yes, every Christian, including Paul sins, 1cor 9.5 implies that Paul was married."
There is no indication in the NT that Paul was married. Perhaps a widower but not married to a woman. Paul wishes everyone were as himself...single. Wives for any of the Apostles were a non topic. They either did not exist or there was nothing about them to note.
Paul speaks about being single. He wishes all people were single (1 Cor. 7:6) and counsels widows to remain single if possible (1 Cor. 7:8). Singleness is preferred because of “the present distress” Paul was badly mistaken about the times he lived in as far as the Second Coming just as today. (1 Cor. 7:26, CSB), and those who aren’t married are advised not to “seek a wife” (1 Cor. 7:28). Married people are “concerned about the things of the world” (1 Cor. 7:33-34), but the unmarried are “concerned about the things of the Lord” (1 Cor. 7:32, 34), and thus the single person can concentrate on pleasing the Lord (1 Cor. 7:32). Paul thinks the one who doesn’t marry his fiancé does “better” than the one who gets married (1 Cor. 7:38). Those who don’t get remarried are “happier” (1 Cor. 7:40).
I Cor 9:5 implies there is no problem with him having a wife, which he did not, but it would be ok if he did which he didn't.
1 Corinthians 9
Paul’s Rights as an Apostle
9 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?(NOTE: Paul never met any earthly Jesus. Here is saying "Have I not experienced Jesus" The word seen implies this and not any physical seeing unless hallucinations count.
Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? 2 Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! (NOTE: As in All of Asia who forsook Paul and labeled him in Ephesus one who said he was an Apostle, but was not)
For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
3 This is my defense to those who sit in judgment on me. 4 Don’t we have the right to food and drink? 5 Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas[a]? 6 Or is it only I and Barnabas who lack the right to not work for a living?
(NOTE: Paul claims these as "rights" but he was single. His main point was leading to the fact that he felt he did not and should not have to work for a living outside his ministry. He wanted to be paid as he perceived others were. The rest of the chapter makes this clear.
I was responding to you glittering generality about the motives you just know are the real reason people think on this topic this way. You label them lazy and only have this view because they are hiding something. Then, of all things, they show up "out of envy", of what pray tell?, to take others down with them as if that's the whole point. Then they defect to the dark side, like some science fiction show and become minions of "Lord Satan". All of this is ridiculous judgmental smoke yet typical of those who feel they have everything and everyone else figured out to their satisfaction.
con't
con't
You imply that once you started working on yourself, VIOLA...God then started answering your prayers. My experiences were that no matter how much one worked on the self, as if that was the main point of NT Christianity, which it is not, I did not notice any uptick in answered prayer. Frankly, specific answers to prayer about everything imaginable were few and far between and fell clearly into the category of time and chance.
Mostly the Deity who, through Jesus said, "Whatever you ask in my name, I WILL DO" John 14:13 fails miserably. Definitely a failed neck sticking outage statement. Ranks right up there with Luke 17:5-6 saying that an ever so small amount of faith can cause you the ability to command a "mulberry tree" to be cast into the ocean" Matthew 17:20 said it was a mountain you could cast into the sea. Whatever it was, both have never happened once. But the two couldn't agree on what could be done with a little faith. Mountain? Mulberry Tree? Big diff! Hyperbole at best.
Add to this John 14:12 ". Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do". Raise the dead? Heal the sick? Walk on water? Calm storms? Really? Who do you know....?
Dennis
Science fiction shows are often art imitating life. And often accurately doing so. A good example of this is the original Bugs Bunny cartoons, that were in fact made for adults. They were screened between movies. The bulldog that kept beating up Sylvester the cat was accurately depicted. I had a person like that bulldog in my workplace. The bulldogs facial expression, the way he walked with his arms swaying from side to aside is spot on. Which brings me to wile E Coyote and the Road Runner. This wasn't pulled out of thin air. This too is art imitating life. The Coyote represents the Cains non stop murderous attempts on the life of the Abel's of the world. Much like the Terminators relentless pursuit of Sarah Conners. Some things never change.
We can't have everything figured out, but some things we can get a good grip on. David in the book of Psalms believed he had evil people essentially figured out with his many detailed descriptions of the attitudes and behaviors. Evil people become like a species of animals with discernable traits. Implying that everything will remain a mystery, no matter how long a persons lifespan is ridiculous. You don't sing that song with your many scientifically based articles.
It seems that the God believers not only believe in god but a specific God. It also seems that the God they believe in is the one they were introduced to in some form by their parents and who is the most popular god of their geographic location
John
So according to you, God believers are dummies who believe whatever others tell them. Only non God believers like yourself have a independent mind. Hmm.
You remind me of Hollywood movies that just about always portray Christians as crazies.
Frankly I believe that the Sovereign Creator God is a personal God. Hence, there are times when He’ll answer someone’s prayers and times when He won’t. His existence isn't dependent on whether my prayer is answered or not. If my son asks me for something that I refuse to grant him it doesn't mean I don't exist now because I denied his request anymore than if I do indulge his desires on occasion.
A personal experience that cemented, for me, my belief in God’s existence was at my Year 6 graduation ceremony back in the ‘80s. We’d a female teacher who came across as very masculine and tough. Let’s call her Mrs T. She also had short hair and a husky voice and when she got mad at any of us we’d all piss our pants with fear! Summer arrived early and the school day had been a hot one. All of us boys had been instructed to wear trousers for the ceremony—No shorts were allowed! Mrs T’s orders! So there I was dressing up for the occasion with my mom pulling up a pair of shorts on me as I’m trying to tell her we weren’t allowed to wear shorts! But, she wouldn’t have a bar of it! “You’re not going to wear trousers in this hot weather!” As I walked to school by myself I’m praying to God to protect me from getting into trouble. When I arrive to the school oval all my classmates were there and some of the boys and girls are laughing and pointing at me. They told me another boy who had come in shorts had run back home to get changed. I told them my mom made me wear them so it’s not my fault. I was thinking to myself, “Doesn’t God command, ‘Honor your father and mother’?” The consensus was that I was going to get into big trouble with Mrs T! I was definitely stuck between a rock and a hard place! Go back home I’d upset mom! Stay and I’d upset Mrs T! There wasn’t much time left for me to go back home and change anyway so as the other boy returned in a pair of trousers with the others all cheering and laughing I looked at him thinking to myself, “Why didn’t you stay in your shorts too? Now I’m all alone if I get into trouble!” So with that I did all that was left for me to do! PRAY! I prayed that God would protect me from being seen and getting into trouble by Mrs T. And I didn’t stop! So there I was with the rest of the class as Mrs T and the other teachers came out telling us to file into a single row. I even remember Mrs T pacing up and down saying, “Well let me get a look at you all!” Honestly I was sweating bullets praying God would shield her eyes from seeing me! Finally she marched us inside the room and we sat ourselves down onto the carpeted floor as we waited for our families to arrive for the ceremony. As I sat down crosslegged on the floor I’m thinking to myself, “Whew! Thank you God!” Cut to the actual ceremony when we have to individually get up to receive our certificate and the look on Mrs T’s face said it all when she called my name and saw me standing in shorts! Her eyes looked like they were going to pop out of her head! LOL! I quickly turned away from Mrs T’s irate stare to see the proud look on my parents faces and their happy smiles as they applauded melting away all the fear I had. I wasn’t alone in my amazement at what happened. When we returned to school the next day my mates and I laughed at the whole experience. To tell you the truth, I’ve been laughing ever since! We just couldn’t believe Mrs T or the other teachers there didn’t see me in my shorts when we were all lined up and that I didn’t get into trouble! Either way, for me, it was a moment in my life that proved to me that God sometimes does answer your prayers! :-)
Anon, Let's say everything you wrote about me is true. Does that make my observations false ?
"You remind me of Hollywood movies that just about always portray Christians as crazies."
This is an excellent example of art imitating life.
John didn’t say “dummies”, you did. John wrote it in plain English. You’re just offended because it points out that you believe in the invisible man that you were taught to believe in since you were a kid and didn’t know any better. And now that you are grown you can’t seem to break free of the dogma because it is uncomfortable. Hollywood also portrays Muslim young men who are dedicated to their god and who believe that if they kill those who believe in some other god as crazies too. But crazy is your word. I would call it religiously delusional. Snap out of it! And there is no Santa Claus either, sorry. But once you get over the make believe and start thinking, you will feel better and be part of the solution instead of part of the doomsday I can’t do anything about it problem. Deism
8:39 AM Anonymous said...
"Is it just me, or does anyone else find this N.DeGrasse Tyson to be a pompous-pain-in-the-ass
It's just you"
No IT IS Tyson! If "Rocky and Bullwinkle" were back on TV (I wish they were) Tyson would make a great choice for the voice "Mr. Know It All"
The Creator has a different mind set than humans He Created. God is Long Term and Humans Short Term in general. The Universe is "Billions and Billions" of years old and infinite (something humans can't comprehend). God's history with Mankind shows consistent failure of humans unable to please their Creator (because they couldn't being clay models).
The stories are documented - - Adam & Eve, Cain & Able, most on Earth before the flood to start over, then Israel continually falls short followed, the Pharisees corrupting the truth, and by the Church being hunted down and polluted by human failure. Finally to 2 witnesses being murder before the return of Christ (the Calvary showing up at the last second) The God's Plan was let humans with their free will do it their way and then see the contrast of God's way (once humans have a miraculous change of mind through the Holy Sprit)
Christ was committed before the creation to come and die to rescue mankind in THE END! He and His Father knew we would fail and suffer for our sins but also be subject to time and chance. In the long term most will have an eternity of joy (to make up for the short term suffering). If you have faith you can look forward to when "God will wipe away all tears."
8:39- With a PhD in Astrophysics and as director of the Hayden Planetarium in NY, he knows a lot more than you
9:38- With a PhD in Astrophysics and as director of the Hayden Planetarium in NY, he knows a lot more than you
He's so educated that he's blinded himself to the obvious extreme design of millions of forms of life all around him. Not impressed! He believes in the myth of evolution.
2:15
You have your own case of blindness
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