One of the favorite weapons the Church has used over the decades to keep members in line is the threat of disfellowshipment and even worse, being marked from the pulpit. That fear of being kicked out and ultimately losing one's chance in going to Petra and ultimately salvation was a serious mind tool of the church. How can any of us forget the numerous disfellowshipments announced from the pulpits by ministers during church services? You could hear a pin drop in the room as fear quickly spread.
The new and improved Living Church of God, who at one time actually had a chance of being a real Christian organization by doing what was right, quickly resorted back to kicking people out and publicly humiliating them. In fact, every single splinter group that apostatized in the 1990s had a chance to do what was right and actually be real Christians and yet, 25 some years later they are more abusive and filled with more liars and false prophets than we could have ever imagined. And, almost every single one of them still uses disfellowshipment as a weapon to keep their fledgling flocks in line.
Today, many of these splinter personality cults take it a step further and claim to have the ability to "mark" individuals that are NOT part of their groups. Talk about control!
Dexter Wakefield writes:
In the Church, we may occasionally hear that someone has been “disfellowshipped” or “marked,” as the King James Version (KJV) puts it. Thankfully, these are rare events. But, perhaps because of this rarity, these practices are not always well understood. Can a person who is not a member, attendee, or adherent of the Living Church of God be disfellowshipped? No. Can a person who is not affiliated with the Living Church of God be “marked”? Yes.The good thing about all of this is that God does not honor their disfellowshipment and markings. S ultimately, it is not an issue and most certainly NOT a salvation issue. Many now take it as a badge of honor to have one of the splinter cult leaders publicly rebuke them. They know first hand how puny and insignificant these men are and their public proclamations are useless.
Wakefield then uses a mean neighborhood dog as an example of "marking". Since it is a public menace, it can be marked in order to warn loyal devotees to steer clear.
We might describe it this way: Let’s say that in my neighborhood there lived a big dog that would walk up to people on the street, looking at them expectantly. When someone put out a hand to pet the dog, it would suddenly snap at them savagely. Ever know a dog like that? Imagine you and I were walking down the sidewalk and this dog approached us expectantly. When you reached out to pet it, the dog gave you a vicious bite. Then, as you tried to stop the bleeding, I remarked, “Actually, I knew that dog would bite you. It does that to everyone who tries to pet it.” You would probably be very upset with me, and you might say, “You should have warned me to mark, to note, to keep my eye on, to watch out for that dog, and avoid it!” And you would be right.
Paul was saying that the Church has a similar responsibility. This is why the ministry, after careful consideration, will sometimes announce to a congregation or to the Church as a whole that someone may potentially do harm and needs to be “noted” or “marked.” It’s rare, but it happens, and the individual may or may not be a member. This is done when you need to be warned, and the person taken note of can be anyone who poses a threat of some kind, spiritual or otherwise.Wakefield then explains that church members can be disfellowshipped and that devotees should steer clear of them for extended periods of time.
Sadly, it is sometimes necessary for someone to be suspended or even dismissed from the fellowship of the Church—that is, to be disfellowshipped. Disfellowshipping is quite different from the marking or noting described above, in that it always involves someone who is a part of our fellowship, and the local members may or may not be told about the action. Also, a person may be temporarily suspended for some problem without their congregation being told (often called a “suspension”), and then return weeks or months later. Or members may be asked, depending on the circumstances, to avoid social contact with the person for a period, pending repentance. Usually, this restriction does not include business contact. Determining how to handle business contact is the responsibility of the individual member, but seeking counsel from the ministry can help you decide what is most helpful in each individual case.The sad part in all of this is that some church members believe that the minister has the capability to discern if a member has repented or not and is worthy to be let back in the fold. None of them have that ability and actually end up abusing members. None of them have adequate training in counseling or therapy work. None of them should ever be expected to make the right decision. Tragically, the trail of dead bodies littering the ground down the rough the decades in the church proves that.
Wakefield then goes on with this:
How, then, should we feel toward those who have been marked or disfellowshipped? It is very important to remember that the membership should not bear any ill will against the person. These practices have a constructive and protective purpose, and should never be construed to encourage feelings of animosity.If people could read the horror stories posted on closed Facebook groups by people who have been disfellowshipped and how the church and members treated them is appaling. Church members believing they are doing what is right many times ended up be disgustingly abusive towards friends and family members. Some of the stories are sickening to read.
Wakefield then summarizes his article with the following:
Disfellowshipping
- involves only someone in our fellowship.
- may involve a temporary suspension, or it may be permanent.
- generally involves cases of promoting doctrinal error, causing division, personal sin, or some other issue—pending repentance. Its purpose is to help the person spiritually and to protect the Church spiritually from sin or division.
The congregation may not be informed of a disfellowshipping, particularly in the case of a suspension. This is a judgment call made by the minister, who carefully considers what is in the best interests of the individual and of the Church.
Marking
- means “taking note of” or “watching out for.”
- can involve someone who is in our fellowship or not in our fellowship.
This practice may be used to protect the Church congregation when people make adversaries of themselves. The “marked” or “noted” people may cause harm, and the brethren are being told: Beware.
Disfellowshipping and marking are two different practices, but both are used for the health and protection of the Church. Neither practice should ever result in animosity against the individual involved.
27 comments:
The day any LCG minister tells me I am disfellowshipped will be the day I go out and celebrate at Ruth's Chris Steak House. Bring it on boys!
The membership really needs to
disfellowship their leaders so that they can live in peace.
These are all their weapons of warfare that they have? They have no power what so ever.
Fuck'em. Kick them out.
Lots of translations of the verse the COGs base marking on.
If they strictly implement it based on their "teachings of men" then they should mark everyone not in LCG, because even the closest splinter has some differences with them.
The verse appears to mean to a sane person, that you should avoid troublemakers.
If they are not attending with you, then what is the problem?
KJ21
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them.
ASV
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them that are causing the divisions and occasions of stumbling, contrary to the doctrine which ye learned: and turn away from them.
When Bill Jahns told me that I was no longer welcome in the local fellowship (then UCG now COGWA) I told him that if I wanted to attend I would, that he could call the police and I would call the local newspaper. Needless to say that I never wasted my time going back, all the people would take Jahns side no matter what. Proven by no one leaving the 99 to find out what happened to the 1.
This is a pretty sticky wicket for them. First, growth is a two pronged process. It involves attracting new members to an already existing stable base. Every time they disfellowship members, they lose ground. So it behooves them to retain as many members as possible, especially since attracting and capturing new ones has been darned near futile and impossible for the past 25 years, not only for this group, but for all of the ACOGs. Each attempts to gain members from the other splinters as the primary and easiest method of growth. Also, in many cases, a disfellowshipped member of one group is most likely going to immediately contact another group which holds 99% of the same beliefs to which they are accustomed. Why don't they concentrate on retaining the members they already have, discontinuing disfellowshipping and marking? I would submit that their counselling skills totally suck.
Also, the Armstrong movement has mostly attracted off balance finky people with weird theories that won't shut up about them, in spite of numerous warnings. They just have to tell everyone who will listen to them their "truths", and see the ministers who attempt to muzzle them as not being open to new truths. After all, that was the example set from the very beginning by HWA as he moved away from COG-7.
Just another way in which the ACOGs are all doomed b their own corporate gnosticism.
BB
I disfellowshipped myself from LCG and noticed a marked improvement in my spiritual life.
Ain't that the truth brother (or sister)
generally involves cases of promoting doctrinal error
HAHAHAAAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAAHHAHHHAHAAAAAA.....!!!!!!!!!
Doctrinal error is the basis of the LCG and how it got started.
and if you are going to post articles on disfellowshipment by the LCG, how can you possibly leave out that wicked servant Rod McNair, who lied about the Scarboroughs or kicked someone out because he did not like the fact that after he demanded someone quit their job in a nursing home (because old people have demons)they gave a customary two-week notice? Wow you can feel the love just oozing out of CLT.
disclaimer: I still have family trapped in that wicked evil cult.
in many cases, a disfellowshipped member of one group is most likely going to immediately contact another group which holds 99% of the same beliefs to which they are accustomed.
LCG now gets very few incoming members from other Church of God groups, now that their "marriage supper in heaven" and "falling away by the world" doctrines have set them apart from other groups.
As for Rod McNair, he didn't give the Global Church of God the customary two-week notice when he left their employ to work for his father and his uncle in the newly formed Living Church of God. Rod is a man-child who has very little understanding of the world outside of the Church of God ministry, and he was only asking the nursing home employee to do what he had done. Asking a second-generation Church of God minister for valid and accurate counsel is like asking Stevie Wonder to help you choose the color to paint your house.
8:47
I'm blind and after seeing that Stevie Wonder video on the internet I can assure you Stevie can see!
nck
A lot of people tried the WCG and its splinter groups. They all ended up either changing their beliefs or else getting kicked out or chased out of the WCG and its splinter groups. What a legacy.
Roderick C. Meredith lamented the fact that if he kicked someone out of his GCG/LCG splinter groups they could simply go to some other splinter group. Of course, maybe they should have gone directly to some other splinter group in the first place rather than wasting their time with RCM and his rebellious “doctrinal upgrade” nonsense that he used to pervert HWA's teachings.
Teachings like RCM's new “two-fold gospel” idea could have got him fired back in the WCG under HWA, but after HWA died RCM was able to pass off his doctrinal changes as helpful corrections to what HWA had taught to keep HWA from embarrassing himself. RCM thought that sounded better than admitting that he was perverting the gospel to compete against HWA and to put his own doctrinal stamp on his splinter groups.
The “falling away” became something in the world because if it was referring to the Great Apostasy of 1995 in the WCG then RCM would have to admit what a great work HWA had done. After HWA died, RCM always tried to make it sound like almost nobody had ever heard of HWA, but that RCM using less than one-tenth of HWA's former followers was going to “shake the nations” with his own splinter groups.
I suppose we can at least be thankful that these guys haven't resorted to holding Cadaver Synods, such as happened in the late 800's, or posthumously declaring people to be heretics, digging their bodies up and burning them, such as happened to the body of John Wycliffe in the early 1400's, and who in the 1300's came to oppose and speak out against several doctrines of the Catholic Church, as well as promoting the idea that the common people should have access to Bibles translated into their own languages. This was done at the orders of the Church Council of Constance, which convened at least partly to try and clear up a schism in the Catholic church at the time in which three different bishops claimed to be pope. This schism had apparently been allowed to fester for thirty years before being resolved by this council of bishops.
It is interesting that when you actually read Romans 16:17 in it's context, the instruction to avoid those who cause division is actually directed to the brethren. There is no authority of "bishops" or "councils" that is appealed to, but the responsibility of the judgement is laid directly on the "brethren".
This I believe is because, when you look at the history of human church organizations it is most often those who have assumed or been given some sort of ministerial authority that have caused said "divisions". Paul said as much when he was addressing the "overseers" in Acts 20:28-30. Verse 30 states "Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them." Simply because some minister or church council decides to "mark" or "disfellowship" someone doesn't necessarily mean that God honors their declaration or decision, and the teaching or decision of such men is always subject to Biblical scrutiny or examination and as such the responsibility to engage in that examination falls to each of us individually as part of the body of Christ. This is supposed to act as a safeguard against the wolves that would rise up from among those who are supposed to be guarding the flock. What we see happening in the cogs in many cases is more akin to the situation John described in 3 John where Diotrephes, who sought to be first or chief, refused to receive John as well as other brethren, and kicked those who would receive or fellowship with them out of his congregation, causing division, or you might say splitting or splintering the brethren. The word for division in Romans 16:17 is the Greek word dichostasia, meaning standing apart, or dissension.
We could also look at the example in 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, which is often appealed to when the ministry "suspends" or "disfellowships" someone. Paul also addresses his comments here to the congregation, whose responsibility it is to remove from fellowship those who are engaging in flagrant sin. He doesn't say just take your minister's word for it. He actually lays out the particular sin so there will be no doubt, and even scolds the brethren because apparently this situation was common knowledge and they failed to act. This of course implies a much different scenario of "church government" then we have today, since it was the direct responsibility of the congregation to put the person out. This would have required some judgement and deliberation to get to the truth of the matter, rather than just taking the word of one person, even if that person were a bishop.
Concerned Sister
I watched a sermon on Youtube by John MacArthur a while ago and (after being in the disgusting LCG atmosphere for such a long time it came as a real revelation!) I heard one of the most beautiful and Christian things I had ever heard.
He said when someone from our congregation has to be told not to come back (he says they only ever do this for very major concerns that can't be addressed any other way) he then considers that person part of the "mission field" again. In other words still a sheep to try to be brought (back) into the church, a potential convert just like everyone else.
Now, I have never, ever seen or heard of any olive branch being held out to a disfellowshiped member by GCG/LCG. Instead, backs are turned and they don't talk of them or to them again (actions which many times are also copied for members who just choose to leave of their own accord).
Just another sign that, if you put it with all the others, shows that LCG is far from a Christian organization.
Byker Bob said January 17, 2020 at 6:56 AM
"...Armstrong movement has mostly attracted off balance finky people with weird theories that won't shut up about them, in spite of numerous warnings."
__________________________________________________
LCG's claim to fame is attracting the mentally ill. These types of disenfranchised people joining the LCG asylum might just shoot up the church like Terry Ratzmann.
Do you feel safe at LCG church services?
Do you expect God's protection while at church?
Does God protect idolaters who follow after false prophets?
What's the track record at the LCD franchise as to surviving a church service?
The people get the leadership they deserve.
Figure it out people, that is why God gave you a mind.
The sad part in all of this is that some church members believe that the minister has the capability to discern if a member has repented or not and is worthy to be let back in the fold.
Not in LCG. LCG members remember how Rod Meredith spoke so movingly about the repentance of Raymond McNair and his wife when they asked to be allowed to join LCG. Well, within a year of the McNairs' tearful repentance they were already distancing themselves from RCM and before long they formed their own new COG. Meredith proved to have no discernment, and this was not the only time the brethren saw that he was very susceptible to flattery and deception, just like any other COG minister.
One of the problems with Armstrongism, 6:14, is that ministers and members who are fully indoctrinated and programmed are not capable of providing their own insights or opinions. They assess a situation, and put on an act which they believe to be appropriate, something that sounds good and incorporates the teachings, opinions, and viewpoints of the church. There is precious little independent or original thought.
How much discernment goes into repeating part of the "canned" script related to repentence? And, then when the cliche turns out to have been inaccurate, what does the minister or member do? Shifts to another cliche! In the old days, if you wanted to have a conversation with any of the church members or ministers, you could get the same result from reading the Plain Truth, Good News, booklets, member letters, or listening to the sermons or broadcasts. Of course, you could do these things without smelling someone's bad breath, or knowing the other member was evaluating you and might "rat", but that's a whole other topic. It's why I always hung with the church outlaws.
BB
their "marriage supper in heaven" and "falling away by the world" doctrines have set them apart from other groups."
Would you please give us some details about these doctrines?
marriage supper in heaven just states that even though believers will reign on earth, they will still be able to visit heaven and the marriage supper will be in heaven
falling way states that this is referring to the whole world falling away from all of God's standards -- not just the church falling away
Unanswered - at least for me:
1) so what! does this make any difference on how to live your life and if you believe in signs - aren't there better signs like the false prophet doing miracles?
2) why do spirit beings who do not need food having a supper?
3) how many people will be at this supper? all saved - 1,000,000 people - a large crowd for a supper....
TLA consider this when you ask question number 2~
Luk 22:16 - For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
Painful Truth said, "LCG's claim to fame is attracting the mentally ill. These types of disenfranchised people joining the LCG asylum might just shoot up the church like Terry Ratzmann. "
MY COMMENT - I would like to suggest to LCG that they publicly mark and disfellowship Terry Ratzmann posthumously since they probably failed to do so when he went on his shooting rampage at the Milwaukee LCG congregation. Practice what you preach. Better late than never!
Richard
and if you are going to post articles on disfellowshipment by the LCG, how can you possibly leave out that wicked servant Rod McNair, who lied about the Scarboroughs or kicked someone out because he did not like the fact that after he demanded someone quit their job in a nursing home (because old people have demons)they gave a customary two-week notice? Wow you can feel the love just oozing out of CLT.
In that entire affair, I never once saw LCG say that they hoped for repentance by the Scarboroughs, that they might return to the fellowship. To the contrary, the Scarboroughs' repeated attempts to reconcile were rebuffed.
Now, I have never, ever seen or heard of any olive branch being held out to a disfellowshiped member by GCG/LCG. Instead, backs are turned and they don't talk of them or to them again (actions which many times are also copied for members who just choose to leave of their own accord).
Look at Charles Bryce. He quietly resigned, never said a negative word about LCG or Meredith, and was promptly marked, disfellowshipped, and was called an agent of Satan. Of course, there was never a hope of repentance expressed.
The types of events you guys are describing (8:13, 8:17) have been symptoms of classic Armstrongism throughout its history. Some day, perhaps there will be an awakening, and someone will realize that these are effects and attitudes directly caused by the doctrines!
BB
nck 9:13
https://www.facebook.com/TheView/videos/lionel-richie-tells-a-hilarious-story-from-we-are-the-world-recording-the-view/379992582834392/
"Anonymous TLA said...
marriage supper in heaven just states that even though believers will reign on earth, they will still be able to visit heaven and the marriage supper will be in heaven"
The WCG always emphasized that we would reign "on" the earth. That was their biggie for not going to heaven. The problem is that the Greek word translated on can also be translated over. We shall reign over the earth. I guarantee that we can do that from Heaven/New Jerusalem.
They also taught against the rapture, but the bible clearly says that we will be caught up/raptured to where Christ is. It's just not a "secret" rapture. The whole world will know.
km
You know, just to be sure I had to actually look up the meaning of sowing discord since that's one of the things you can get kicked out for (amongst a myriad of other things they want to make up.) To sow discord is to say and do things which cause a group as a whole to distrust one another, and begin to argue and then to fight. Usually the 'sower' is acting AS IF he is not trying to cause arguments. Sowing discord is something done in secret, by deceit and subterfuge (sneakiness, gossip and lies). The ministry has gotten so good at gaslight people and twist things around until you're convinced YOU'RE the crazy one with the problem. These ministers love to play the "sowing discord" card when their sins back them into a corner because someone dares to turn the light on.....and then kick them out, disfellowship or mark them! How twisted! Here's an idea fellas...don't be a stumbling block to others, clean up your own household and take care of the PLANK in your own eye.....oh and buy some eye-salve cause you're obviously blind to the pain you cause others.
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