Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Crackpot Prophet Delivers A Feast Sermon As Bad Or Worse Than You Could Have Ever Imagined
If you thought the bouncing and flouncing Bob was bad when he was sitting down, just take a look at a few minutes of the start of his sermon. What the hell is wrong with this guy?
30 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Why would he cover those nice pictures with a dumbass vinyl sign? Everything about this guy is unprofessional.
If you want your audience to become engaged, you have to make what you are trying to teach them memorable. Anyone can machine gun scriptures. It's what you say in between the scriptures, and your enthusiasm, which reaches out and grabs those who are listening. Bob has been at this for years now, since leaving LCG. One would think that if he had the needed aptitudes, or if God were assisting him even in the smallest ways, he would be much more captivating as a speaker by this point in time.
Could I do any better? Probably not. But, it's kind of like weldimg. I cannot weld, but as someone who has patronized good welders over the years, I know the difference between the good ones, and the bad ones.
Why does Bob do what he does? His presentations lack any sort of deep inner passion. One could make the argument that he believes that God expects him to do this. But it's obvious that he's just walking through it punch drunk. He is not preaching as if his very life, and the lives of his listeners depend on it. He does not impart the aura of natural joy that belief should bring.
I listened/watched for twenty minutes and I will say it was typical COG style, yet very far from the worse GOG sermon I've suffered through. Doug Winnail has done worse recently. I liked that Prophet Bob used a lot of scriptures and in twenty minutes, he did not misuse those verses - that is a COG rarity. One fatal flaw of GOG delivery style is that it is painfully slow. The Prophet, like all COG ministers say too little in too much time and often go astray on pointless tangents - Bob even mentioned that his meandering on evolution was off topic. Fluff and drawn out delivery suck from the moment any potential for a worshipful experience. I agree with the Anonymous above who identified the Prophet's lack of passion - that's something God has obviously not blessed him with. I find Prophet Bob to be a paradox - he is hopelessly arrogant, yet very humble. His grandiose beliefs about his calling are in sharp contrast to his lack of style, dull presentation, nonexistent passion, timid mouse meekness.
I listened for about two minutes. The spoken delivery was fairly typical of sermons I have heard - both Armstrongist and mainstream Christian. In fact the delivery seemed much more sincere than the glib, sales oriented, smarmy, GTA-like sermons that I rightly or wrongly associate with historical Armstrongism. In the space of two minutes I did not find any heresy.
So what is the issue? I listened for only two minutes because I do not like to hear Armstrongists speak. Makes my skin crawl for a variety of reasons unrelated to delivery. Maybe that's the issue.
If Bob is speaking to his congregation, why does he need to introduce himself and his church? Okay, it's so the video can be uploaded without an edited introduction.
I had the same problem as earlier, sound synch was out, and that makes watching even sillier. No comment on the quality, but I agree he hasn't shown any improvement over the years...
I heard some of the very early Garner Ted tapes. His voice was much higher, and he sounded very tentative. Not too many years later, he had become an authoritative communicator, arguably, more effective than his father. I don't think that I was alone in eagerly anticipating GTA's sermons above those of all the other ministers. David Jon Hill, Al Portune Sr., Charles Hunting, and David Antion ran close second, and Rod Meredith would have been right in there with them if he had ever learned to control the always weird sexual content of his sermons, but most of the rest even back then were easily forgotten.
Part of the lackluster nature of the current crop of speakers can be chalked up to the fact that Armstrongism is very passe due to its perpetual prophecy failures, the well-known debunking of some of its key doctrines, its mercurial splintering, the decreasing influence of religion on an international scale, and the fact that the emergence of so many more existential threats has caused people to become calloused or immune to them. But, in most cases, the current crop of speakers just don't meet the standards of the previous generation. They belong in another line of work.
That Behind the Work video by Bob in an earlier post was by far and away the most pathetic speech I had ever seen or heard (based on a 1 minute skim), but then I skimmed this one. Now this is the most pathetic. lol
I graduated from AC in 73, left the church in 74. GTA was probably the best speaker as far as presentation style. As for content, as anon 2:27 says, GTA says too little in too much time. After listening to GTA a few years ago, I thought, "What did he say?" There was no real content to the message. He seems to enjoy hearing his own voice and it is as if he is showing off, putting on a performance. All fluff, no substance. But that what the WCG and AC were all about. Superficial appearances, no real substance. Beautiful campus in Pasadena to impress visitors. The curicullum was little more than indoctrination of the already converted. No money for a library because a library doesn't impress visitors. No money to meet accredidation standards, but cause they are not superficial, easy to seen. While I'm on that subject, I recall HWA saying that he won't seek accredication because he doesn't want a governmental agency to control what he teaches. But the LDS church has Brigham Young University and others which are accredited, as was Oral Roberts University. The accreditation agency isn't interested in the church's theology.
4.07 PM A library and accreditation means truly educated students. Educated people aren't into blind obedience, and question what they are taught. In cults, maintaining their theology is their number one priority, which justifies in their minds unleashing all manner of horrors on their members, including denying them a proper education. It's like the Pharisee's criticizing Christ for healing on the Sabbath. Theology trumps people.
I remember some Jackass in Birmingham Worldwide back in the day telling the congregation that unless you sent your young adults to Ambassador College, a college education was worthless. Fortunately, my own parents saw the fallacy in this and I went to college and got my degree, even though I had to commute and work 40+ hours a week and it took me around 6 years to complete it. I know friends I had in worldwide & in the ACOGs that their parents went along with this foolishness and they have suffered because they were not allowed to seek higher education to benefit themselves later on life.
September 25, 2021 at 10:42 PM said, " remember some Jackass in Birmingham Worldwide back in the day telling the congregation that unless you sent your young adults to Ambassador College, a college education was worthless."
MY COMMENT - That was the prevailing thought in the WCG in the 1960s and 1970s. As I have said before on Banned by HWA, I am an Ambassador College reject. I still have my William Stenger, Register rejection letter. While it hurt at the time (as one girl said to me about AC, "that is where the best guys are"), today I wear it like a badge of honor. I thank God for denying me that life choice. Otherwise, I might have been so invested in Armstrongism that I might have become a WCG minister and a splinter minister today.
I went on to graduate with a B.S in Finance and Accounting from the University of Maryland, and a MBA from Drake University. These two degrees opened doors for me that I would never have received with a degree from the now defunct Ambassador College. I earned above average earnings throughout my employment years. Today, I own my own company. And I have my own Church, Lake of Fire Church of God. It meets whenever I pray to the Lord.
Always remember - "Ambassador College: that is wear the best guys are!"
Prophet, falsely so-called, Bob Theil mentioned Romans 1 verse 21 and then tried to tie in fools and evolution and being unthankful into that scripture; however, those verses don't have anything to do with people but actually I reference to Satan and his angels, who are unthankful and fools. Here is some context: Romans 1:19-21 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened." HWA of former WCG taught us to apply those verses to human beings, and not to Spirit beings, especially evil spirit beings. Satan and his angels know God, and there are even unthankful that they were even created. They have no excuse, but human beings have lots of excuses when it comes to knowing who and what God is. Even Jesus Christ acknowledge that human beings we're not aware of exactly who The God (ton Theon), His Father, really was: John 17:25 "O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me." Bob still does not understand this and he wants us to consider him to be a prophet? Is Bobby just another prophet, falsely so-called?
Richard wrote "as one girl said to me about AC, "that is where the best guys are". . ."
One must understand that AC was a small socio-cultral island unto itself. The hierarchical system held sway. This statement is rooted in the norms that provided the sociological infrastructure for that hierarchy. For the young women who understood this, this statement was true. It just had no gravitas in larger society.
Many of the young women who went to AC were just as ambitious as the young men. They were bent on making the most of a system set up by HWA that based the minstry on prestige, compensation, authoritarianism and a cultivated stage presence. By marrying the right guy, they could reign in that little niche.
Its an old story. No longer really worth discussing.
My parents were obsessive-compulsive in their application of the child-beating booklet. It left me with some permanent DSM-IV Axis II personality disorders which I've spent my entire lifetime either overcoming, or learning to deal with. Ambassador College did not help, because the reassurance there was that my parents had done the right thing. As a young, immature 18 year old, it appeared to me that AC or Vietnam were my only two choices. The WCG was every bit that manipulative! With better counselling, I might have known about community tuition-free colleges, or options such as enlisting in the Navy or National Guard.
I am very happy not to have become a minister, because considering my abusive childhood, I would most certainly have been one of the abusive ones. It has been proven that abused people pass along their abuse to others. Two factors helped me greatly throughout my life. One was that I actively avoided becoming any sort of authority figure, shunning the very idea of manipulating others. I realized that I was toxic in that area. And the second was the work ethic with which I approached my career. I always took it seriously, and attempted to grow and improve in it, although it hasn't always been a bed of roses.
Anyone who was ever part of the Armstrong scam has been left with varying degrees of permanent damage which they may or may not realize or acknowledge. The good news is that there are ways of minimizing the damage through hard work and remedial actions.
Herbie's book also lacks any understanding of who the people of Europe actually were. imninala.org tells you the truth of who the European actually are. None of them are Semitic!
I believe the extraneous noises you hear are his disabled son who has an occasional uncontrolled outburst. Is that what you condemn him for. Is Charles Pond still feeding you guys malicious content?
"I actually don't see anything wrong. He is quoting scripture. What is your issue here?"
Even satan quotes scripture. Thiel quotes scripture to try and impress people with his biblical knowledge, which he is sorely deficient in and he uses scripture to command people to do unnecessary things for their salvation. Just because he quotes 3,000 scriptures per sermon proves nothing. What it does proves is that he has not researched enough for his sermons and use scriptures as props for his demonic dreams and false prophecies. He is prophetically ignorant and has no real knowledge of propehcy. He ignores Jesus Christ and the things he accomplished. Sure he quotes him occasionally but totally misses the point.
Agreement with Anon 621 - The aim of the "Great Commission" is to make Disciples for Jesus in all the world. In Bob's world, "The Great Commission" seems to be downplayed by website hits, "The Ezekiel Watchman", "Watch!" (for various news events) and Bob trying to convince everyone he's a "Philadelphian Prophet" while trying to be a thorn in the side of the Catholic Church.
Here's a mature comment: There's nothing wrong, negative, distasteful, disgusting, immature, bad, misleading, horrible with these two specific points: Love God. Be thankful.
Phinnpoy - Yes, haven't you wondered why Bob posts so many articles on Catholic saints, saints days, events such as Fatima, and so on? Well, somewhere in Bob's extensive account of why he parted from LCG, there is a reference to a Catholic prophecy about an end-time troublemaker. Bob wrote that Rod Meredith said to him, "That is you!" So that, I reckoned, is the reason Bob posts so much critique on all things Catholic. Somewhere there is also a reference to something Bob imagines he will do, like correctly identify the Beast, or some other supposedly noteworthy accomplishment. At that time, Bob anticipates that millions will be flocking to read his literature. I don't think he expected them to watch his sermons...
30 comments:
Why would he cover those nice pictures with a dumbass vinyl sign? Everything about this guy is unprofessional.
Did he only take remedial reading in school?
As for extraneous background noise, Dr Bob should add in some flatulence and a few toilet flushes to dignify his presentation with a little ambiance.
My brain hurts after listening to some of that. How can people sit there and listen to him drone on?
If you want your audience to become engaged, you have to make what you are trying to teach them memorable. Anyone can machine gun scriptures. It's what you say in between the scriptures, and your enthusiasm, which reaches out and grabs those who are listening. Bob has been at this for years now, since leaving LCG. One would think that if he had the needed aptitudes, or if God were assisting him even in the smallest ways, he would be much more captivating as a speaker by this point in time.
Could I do any better? Probably not. But, it's kind of like weldimg. I cannot weld, but as someone who has patronized good welders over the years, I know the difference between the good ones, and the bad ones.
Why does Bob do what he does? His presentations lack any sort of deep inner passion. One could make the argument that he believes that God expects him to do this. But it's obvious that he's just walking through it punch drunk. He is not preaching as if his very life, and the lives of his listeners depend on it. He does not impart the aura of natural joy that belief should bring.
I lost 15 minutes of my life listening to this garbage. People wonder why the COG is dying, this is why!
I listened/watched for twenty minutes and I will say it was typical COG style, yet very far from the worse GOG sermon I've suffered through.
Doug Winnail has done worse recently.
I liked that Prophet Bob used a lot of scriptures and in twenty minutes, he did not misuse those verses - that is a COG rarity.
One fatal flaw of GOG delivery style is that it is painfully slow.
The Prophet, like all COG ministers say too little in too much time and often go astray on pointless tangents - Bob even mentioned that his meandering on evolution was off topic.
Fluff and drawn out delivery suck from the moment any potential for a worshipful experience.
I agree with the Anonymous above who identified the Prophet's lack of passion - that's something God has obviously not blessed him with.
I find Prophet Bob to be a paradox - he is hopelessly arrogant, yet very humble.
His grandiose beliefs about his calling are in sharp contrast to his lack of style, dull presentation, nonexistent passion, timid mouse meekness.
Poor Bob has aged 10 years since he started his own church. A prophet has a hard life.
Dear BoB:
I am indeed Thankful!
I am thankful that you are not my pastor or "prophet" and very thankful that Im at Bend Oregon for the FOT and not at your group!
Diploma-mill-'Dr'-Thiel is God's new Rep on Planet-E after 'Dr' Meredith rejected his 'miraculous' Prophet Anointing
I listened for about two minutes. The spoken delivery was fairly typical of sermons I have heard - both Armstrongist and mainstream Christian. In fact the delivery seemed much more sincere than the glib, sales oriented, smarmy, GTA-like sermons that I rightly or wrongly associate with historical Armstrongism. In the space of two minutes I did not find any heresy.
So what is the issue? I listened for only two minutes because I do not like to hear Armstrongists speak. Makes my skin crawl for a variety of reasons unrelated to delivery. Maybe that's the issue.
******** Click on my icon for Disclaimer
If Bob is speaking to his congregation, why does he need to introduce himself and his church? Okay, it's so the video can be uploaded without an edited introduction.
I had the same problem as earlier, sound synch was out, and that makes watching even sillier. No comment on the quality, but I agree he hasn't shown any improvement over the years...
I heard some of the very early Garner Ted tapes. His voice was much higher, and he sounded very tentative. Not too many years later, he had become an authoritative communicator, arguably, more effective than his father. I don't think that I was alone in eagerly anticipating GTA's sermons above those of all the other ministers. David Jon Hill, Al Portune Sr., Charles Hunting, and David Antion ran close second, and Rod Meredith would have been right in there with them if he had ever learned to control the always weird sexual content of his sermons, but most of the rest even back then were easily forgotten.
Part of the lackluster nature of the current crop of speakers can be chalked up to the fact that Armstrongism is very passe due to its perpetual prophecy failures, the well-known debunking of some of its key doctrines, its mercurial splintering, the decreasing influence of religion on an international scale, and the fact that the emergence of so many more existential threats has caused people to become calloused or immune to them. But, in most cases, the current crop of speakers just don't meet the standards of the previous generation. They belong in another line of work.
That Behind the Work video by Bob in an earlier post was by far and away the most pathetic speech I had ever seen or heard (based on a 1 minute skim), but then I skimmed this one. Now this is the most pathetic. lol
I graduated from AC in 73, left the church in 74. GTA was probably the best speaker as far as presentation style. As for content, as anon 2:27 says, GTA says too little in too much time. After listening to GTA a few years ago, I thought, "What did he say?" There was no real content to the message. He seems to enjoy hearing his own voice and it is as if he is showing off, putting on a performance. All fluff, no substance. But that what the WCG and AC were all about. Superficial appearances, no real substance. Beautiful campus in Pasadena to impress visitors. The curicullum was little more than indoctrination of the already converted. No money for a library because a library doesn't impress visitors. No money to meet accredidation standards, but cause they are not superficial, easy to seen. While I'm on that subject, I recall HWA saying that he won't seek accredication because he doesn't want a governmental agency to control what he teaches. But the LDS church has Brigham Young University and others which are accredited, as was Oral Roberts University. The accreditation agency isn't interested in the church's theology.
You must have posted this because he seems to refer to you @9:06.
Either that, or no David Pack videos have leaked as they did last fall.
And a happy Feast season to all!
4.07 PM
A library and accreditation means truly educated students. Educated people aren't into blind obedience, and question what they are taught.
In cults, maintaining their theology is their number one priority, which justifies in their minds unleashing all manner of horrors on their members, including denying them a proper education.
It's like the Pharisee's criticizing Christ for healing on the Sabbath. Theology trumps people.
I remember some Jackass in Birmingham Worldwide back in the day telling the congregation that unless you sent your young adults to Ambassador College, a college education was worthless. Fortunately, my own parents saw the fallacy in this and I went to college and got my degree, even though I had to commute and work 40+ hours a week and it took me around 6 years to complete it. I know friends I had in worldwide & in the ACOGs that their parents went along with this foolishness and they have suffered because they were not allowed to seek higher education to benefit themselves later on life.
Why don't Academics accept 'Diploma-mill-'Dr'Thiel' & High-school-dropout-Herbie's radical view on USA's 'real' ethnic identity?
Is it because Herbie's 'book' on the subject lacks references & footnotes?? LOL
September 25, 2021 at 10:42 PM said, " remember some Jackass in Birmingham Worldwide back in the day telling the congregation that unless you sent your young adults to Ambassador College, a college education was worthless."
MY COMMENT - That was the prevailing thought in the WCG in the 1960s and 1970s. As I have said before on Banned by HWA, I am an Ambassador College reject. I still have my William Stenger, Register rejection letter. While it hurt at the time (as one girl said to me about AC, "that is where the best guys are"), today I wear it like a badge of honor. I thank God for denying me that life choice. Otherwise, I might have been so invested in Armstrongism that I might have become a WCG minister and a splinter minister today.
I went on to graduate with a B.S in Finance and Accounting from the University of Maryland, and a MBA from Drake University. These two degrees opened doors for me that I would never have received with a degree from the now defunct Ambassador College. I earned above average earnings throughout my employment years. Today, I own my own company. And I have my own Church, Lake of Fire Church of God. It meets whenever I pray to the Lord.
Always remember - "Ambassador College: that is wear the best guys are!"
Richard
Richard
Prophet, falsely so-called, Bob Theil mentioned Romans 1 verse 21 and then tried to tie in fools and evolution and being unthankful into that scripture; however, those verses don't have anything to do with people but actually I reference to Satan and his angels, who are unthankful and fools.
Here is some context:
Romans 1:19-21 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."
HWA of former WCG taught us to apply those verses to human beings, and not to Spirit beings, especially evil spirit beings.
Satan and his angels know God, and there are even unthankful that they were even created. They have no excuse, but human beings have lots of excuses when it comes to knowing who and what God is.
Even Jesus Christ acknowledge that human beings we're not aware of exactly who The God (ton Theon), His Father, really was:
John 17:25 "O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me."
Bob still does not understand this and he wants us to consider him to be a prophet?
Is Bobby just another prophet, falsely so-called?
Time will tell...
John
Richard wrote "as one girl said to me about AC, "that is where the best guys are". . ."
One must understand that AC was a small socio-cultral island unto itself. The hierarchical system held sway. This statement is rooted in the norms that provided the sociological infrastructure for that hierarchy. For the young women who understood this, this statement was true. It just had no gravitas in larger society.
Many of the young women who went to AC were just as ambitious as the young men. They were bent on making the most of a system set up by HWA that based the minstry on prestige, compensation, authoritarianism and a cultivated stage presence. By marrying the right guy, they could reign in that little niche.
Its an old story. No longer really worth discussing.
******** Click on my icon for Disclaimer
My parents were obsessive-compulsive in their application of the child-beating booklet. It left me with some permanent DSM-IV Axis II personality disorders which I've spent my entire lifetime either overcoming, or learning to deal with. Ambassador College did not help, because the reassurance there was that my parents had done the right thing. As a young, immature 18 year old, it appeared to me that AC or Vietnam were my only two choices. The WCG was every bit that manipulative! With better counselling, I might have known about community tuition-free colleges, or options such as enlisting in the Navy or National Guard.
I am very happy not to have become a minister, because considering my abusive childhood, I would most certainly have been one of the abusive ones. It has been proven that abused people pass along their abuse to others. Two factors helped me greatly throughout my life. One was that I actively avoided becoming any sort of authority figure, shunning the very idea of manipulating others. I realized that I was toxic in that area. And the second was the work ethic with which I approached my career. I always took it seriously, and attempted to grow and improve in it, although it hasn't always been a bed of roses.
Anyone who was ever part of the Armstrong scam has been left with varying degrees of permanent damage which they may or may not realize or acknowledge. The good news is that there are ways of minimizing the damage through hard work and remedial actions.
Herbie's book also lacks any understanding of who the people of Europe actually were. imninala.org tells you the truth of who the European actually are. None of them are Semitic!
I actually don't see anything wrong. He is quoting scripture. What is your issue here?
@ Ronco 9:00pm
I believe the extraneous noises you hear are his disabled son who has an occasional uncontrolled outburst. Is that what you condemn him for. Is Charles Pond still feeding you guys malicious content?
"I actually don't see anything wrong. He is quoting scripture. What is your issue here?"
Even satan quotes scripture. Thiel quotes scripture to try and impress people with his biblical knowledge, which he is sorely deficient in and he uses scripture to command people to do unnecessary things for their salvation. Just because he quotes 3,000 scriptures per sermon proves nothing. What it does proves is that he has not researched enough for his sermons and use scriptures as props for his demonic dreams and false prophecies. He is prophetically ignorant and has no real knowledge of propehcy. He ignores Jesus Christ and the things he accomplished. Sure he quotes him occasionally but totally misses the point.
So really, can you NOT see the issue?
Agreement with Anon 621 - The aim of the "Great Commission" is to make Disciples for Jesus in all the world. In Bob's world, "The Great Commission" seems to be downplayed by website hits, "The Ezekiel Watchman", "Watch!" (for various news events) and Bob trying to convince everyone he's a "Philadelphian Prophet" while trying to be a thorn in the side of the Catholic Church.
"to be a thorn in the side of the Catholic Church?" Thiel's so puny, he's only a little prick!
Here's a mature comment: There's nothing wrong, negative, distasteful, disgusting, immature, bad, misleading, horrible with these two specific points: Love God. Be thankful.
Phinnpoy - Yes, haven't you wondered why Bob posts so many articles on Catholic saints, saints days, events such as Fatima, and so on? Well, somewhere in Bob's extensive account of why he parted from LCG, there is a reference to a Catholic prophecy about an end-time troublemaker. Bob wrote that Rod Meredith said to him, "That is you!" So that, I reckoned, is the reason Bob posts so much critique on all things Catholic.
Somewhere there is also a reference to something Bob imagines he will do, like correctly identify the Beast, or some other supposedly noteworthy accomplishment. At that time, Bob anticipates that millions will be flocking to read his literature. I don't think he expected them to watch his sermons...
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