Truly, what does UCG have to offer its young adults?
Youth in the Church—Len Martin
One question that came in last week with the Council workshop was how can we help the youth, especially the 18-age group from leaving the Church. What can we do as a Church? The Council discussed and brainstormed ideas for over an hour. The Chairman remanded to the SPFC to have further study and develop policies on this important subject and emphasized the importance of moving this forward and reporting in December.
30 comments:
Pretty much every non-exploitative, non-cult religion understands that young adults go through a normal and beneficial period of individuation, during which they set aside their parents' beliefs and look for beliefs they can make their own.
Most of the time, it is marriage and childbirth that bring young adults back to church, and if their parents were loving and decent most kids come back to their parents' church, or at least to a church compatible with their parents' beliefs.
If kids leave when they turn 18, but they never come back, it's a powerful sign that they grew up in a church were parenting skills weren't taught, and where kids' needs were neglected in favor of cult practices.
Until UCG (or any other ACOG) is willing to teach parents that the time they spend hustling to become deacon/deaconess should instead be spent on family activity, and until parent are taught to make financial sacrifices for their children first, not to neglect their children so there's money left over for "common" or "the building fund," kids will see this from their own experience, and they won't want to subject their own kids to such lousy childhoods.
Someone should remind the UCG COE that 18-year olds are usually living on student loans, tiny family stipends, or entry level workplace wages. They aren't big tithers, so losing them for a few young adult years won't hurt your organization very much. The best way to bring them back is to treat them with love and respect during their ACOG rumspringa, so they'll have warm and positive memories should they think about returning. Of course, controlling churches don't know how to treat people that way, as if they are nice to one group of "rebels" this will make it harder for them to deal with other "rebels" they prefer to abuse.
The biggest two biggest problems all COGS have towards youth retention are the mind numbingly boring rehashing of a world view that hasn’t grown since the founder died almost 40 years ago, and the immorality that is on obvious display. One young lady in LCG was completely turned off to them due to the minster’s kids and minsters pets have all kinds of sexual liaisons at the church camp Gerald pretends is the purest thing around. She also saw a council of elder member cover for a pedophile that took his sex trips to the Philippines on the regular (pre-COVID). A church without morality is just an expensive social club.
Sorry guys, but the young of today have access to information.
You have to be bloody smart to keep your youth or bloody devious.
But of course, give it to a committee, and if one doesn’t exist, create one.
It gives the impression of doing something when you are actually doing nothing.
Then get them to report back in 2,3 or 6 months.
In the meanwhile, the youth will continue to leave.
I have no idea how any religious group can retain its youth but there are vibrant growing denominations out there. Perhaps we can learn from them? But that opens up a can of worms for Armstrongism.
If they are anything like LCG it’s probably because they have weird political rants that they pretend are “gawds inspired word.” Talk about a turn off!
The UCG sets up newly-credentialed fake ministers who want to run the local churches even though they raised their own children to marry completely outside of the church. These newly-credentialed fake ministers kick out other people's children while keeping old perverts and stalkers. That is why the UCG has such an abundance of old perverts and stalkers and such a lack of young people.
Once more you pick on the UCG. They must be doing something right in order to make you so bitter!
Why are this and the employee retention post shocking? In Armstrongism, either you keep all of the dos and don'ts, or you are expendable. It is very easy to leave if you feel you are not valued, or that your value is conditional. Actually, it is surprising that everybody does not leave.
As for the young people, at some point they begin to understand that their parents are brainwashed. It makes them go off to seek answers for themselves. It didn't hurt me a bit to walk away from a family of mindless zombies. Everything I had loved about them had evaporated decades previously when they joined HWA's church.
This is not unique to the COG’s at all. When Christian kids reach their late teens and early twenties almost 2/3 stop attending church completely. This is especially true if they decide to enter college and attend a non-religious school.
Anonymous at 6:30 PM said...“Once more you pick on the UCG. They must be doing something right in order to make you so bitter!”
After the UCG-COGWA church split of 2010, what was left of the UCG became a haunt of demons, the godless, and bitter people like yourself.
They must be doing something right in order to make you so bitter!
Do ex-WCG cultists realize how they sound when they throw around the word "bitter" with no apparent awareness of its meaning? Bitterness is resentment over a perceived injustice; it is a desire to keep re-living past circumstances and a choice not to let go and accept the present.
This PERFECTLY describes the attitude of ministers who watch members making a joyous choice to leave behind many years of ACOG abuse. It's the minister, not the ex-member, who refuses to let go of the past (the past when the minister was in charge of the ex-member).
Mocking the stupidities of one's past is not "bitterness." Expressing concern about those who continue to receive abuse is not "bitterness." Inability to acknowledge that people have moved on to better things? THAT is bitterness! If you want to see bitterness (and untreated depression), become a fly on the wall watching a group of ACOG ministers who feel that they are trapped in a life that they cannot leave, but who dare not admit this to the other ministers who are their main social contacts.
The solution is easy to this problem if you are a devout Armstrongist. In an article titled "Is Obedience to God Required for Salvation" Rod Meredith wrote the following in 1956 about the abrogation administration of death:
"Because the first administration gave only death for disobedience. Human judges could not impart eternal life; they could only minister death. What was needed was a new administration of the same laws — an administration which could give pardon and eternal life to those who repented and wanted to obey."
Notice carefully that Rod wrote "a new administration of the same laws." This means that those laws of Moses that require the death penalty, whose bona fides is based on the fact that they are derived from the 10 commandments, are still in force. They just no longer require the death penalty.
So here is one of the laws written on the heart and mind of every Armstrongist:
"If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father and mother, who does not heed them when they discipline him, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his town at the gate of that place. They shall say to the elders of his town, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death. So you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel will hear, and be afraid."
You would have to, of course, replace the stoning with some other suitable punishment of some sort. Let your imagination run wild. You can just no longer kill him.
This is a model for how this problem should be solved. A young person rebels against this Splinterist group? Rod Meredith has given you the model for the solution. Clear back in 1956. And, of course, it was credentialed and vetted by HWA and the leadership of the WCG and can be found in WCG literature archives.
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Oh, yes, NEO! I remember this all too well! My Mom saying to me, "Do you realize what would be happening to you if we lived in Old Testament times??? We would be taking you to the elders tonight and explaining to them how rebellious you are, and they would take you outside the gates of the city and the whole church would be stoning you to death!!!
WCG parents had some pretty bad shit to lay on the teenagers as they approached adulthood. And often over some trivial little things like a couple of cigarettes. We had the feeling while growing up that the parents would give up on you and write you off over next to nothing! They forgot to teach us about God's supreme love as taught in the parable of the prodigal son. Instead, there was the spectre of themselves or God swooping down on you at any time just looking for the opportunity to mete out the ultimate punishment for the least little infraction. That memory is impossible to shake throughout one's entire life. Brainwashed parents who gave up on us and didn't have our backs.
As David Hidalgo and Los Refugios Tiernos sing in the theme song for Mayans MC: "I am a wolf, a wild cur, Cut from the pack, with blood on my fur! Every howl marks a debt, cause a beaten dog never forgets!"
Ten years ago 70% of UCG youth went into COGWA. It would be a uphill struggle from then on. This strawman argument post ignores the context UCG is in.
Growing up in Worldwide, I remember the statement I heard more than any from other peers was"I can't wait til I get to 18 and don't have to come here any more." Worldwide and most of it's successors have been monumental failures. Not having a separate service for children and teens, forcing them to sit there for 2+ hours listening to blather from HWA, Waterhouse or most of the other ministers, many who turned our to be nothing but paid lackeys have ended up pushing most of the children who grew up out or caused many to give up their beliefs all together. HWA was probably one of the most selish human beings of the 20th century, evidenced by what he did to his own children. Flurry idolizes HWA and teaches Mystery of the Ages as scripture. God have mercy on the children and young people who are having to endure the trauma of his cult.
Anonymous at 6:30pm says:
"Once more you pick on the UCG. They must be doing something right in order to make you so bitter!"
That's not exactly a strong defence that would impress the jury.
This younger generation is more spiritual that anyone in the COG groups. COG groups are a biblical oriented organization having a misunderstanding that only they have the truth. They only read and study about God, many of the younger generation have learned how to experience God (Love) through energy and spiritual experiences. My three daughters grew up the wwcog and today they are teaching me about my true self and who God really is and his desire for us.
Today COG's teachings are ancient and out of tune with reality. Good for those that are leaving.
Anonymous 10:20
Thank you for the relevant comment. Although I am alarmed that any Armstrongist ever invoked this law in any way. I assumed I was raising an issue that nobody had ever considered.
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One of the reasons COGWA left was that they had some vision of recreating the AC type of system, with a beautiful college grounds in Texas etc. UCG's vision was one of recreating a media work, aka the Armstrongs.
Both visions have failed miserably. Both have a limited one year type of class structure with small amounts of students, and both have impotent media outreaches.
Back in the 1960s and 70s, the COG was composed of mostly younger people who had come in from the outside in the 18 to 40 year old bracket. The church never did relate well to younger generations in the 1980s and beyond, and thus still has this same group of remnant people , now aged 60 to 90.
Love him or hate him, but GTA was good at attracting a younger audience, as he was in this mid 30s as well.
NEO, I always assumed that if something were invoked or practiced in my own WCG household, it was also ongoing in others. My parents were not terribly original in their thinking. Everything they said and did following their baptisms came from HWA, the church, or brethren they met at the F/T whose children attended Imperial Schools. My Mom also told myself and my brothers that she would not be surprised if we ended up having something to do with the Beast and the AntiChrist, based on our behavior (which really was not all that bad, except when applying the obsessive-compulsive child rearing standards of WCG/HWA from that era.)
Since this is an addendum (some might want to call it an erratum), I am going to address the typos.
Addendum to my comment at 9:05:
Judaism and Christianity recognize the category known as the Law of Moses as a single corpus of legislation. Armstrongism does not. Armstrongism views the law as consisting of a number of parts and this leads to a more complex hermeneutic. For instance, Armstrongists do not consider the Ten Commandments to be a part of the Law of Moses. For the average Jewish or Christian scholar this leads to confusion. Two articles of conseqence in this line of inquiry are Herman Hoeh's "Which Old Testament Laws Should We Keep Today?" and Rod Meredith's "Is Obedience to God Required for Salvation?"
That said, Armstrongists would probably assert that the law concerning the rebellious son that I cited from Deuteronomy is not written on the heart - only the Ten Commandments are. But Meredith says this of the non-Decalogue legisiation:
"These statutes and judgments, based upon the ten commandments, are "righteous" (Psalm 119:7, 8). It is SIN to break them!"
Meredith included the ministration of death in this. And Herman Hoeh wrote of the "statutes and laws":
"As they (statues and laws) existed before the old covenant, they could not be abolished when it ceased to exist. The old covenant could not destroy what it did not bring into force." Text in parenthesis added by the commenter and taken from context of statement.
and,
"Notice how the statues and laws of God magnify the Ten Commandments ..."
This sounds very much like it is a true proposition that if the Ten Commandments are written on the heart, so are their supporting statues, judgments and laws. Here we would benefit from a systematic treatment of this concept rather than bits and pieces of theology scattered across many publications.
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@10:20, spot on. I think being raised in the late 50's through the middle 70's was probably the hardest and most unique time to be a young person. I am not saying the subsequent generations didn't have it bad, but you will have to acknowledge that the WCG was in it's infancy and preparing to "flee." The message was not on a Christian lifestyle and salvation, it was ALL about the Tribulation. Every. single. bit. So now, those of us in our late 50's-70's are told to get over it, put it behind us. Well, we have, but having a relationship with a compassionate, forgiving God is not an easy task when we were raised on the angry, vengeful God you had to qualify for to approach. What young person would willingly stay in "that ole time religion" these days and hear more of the same? I'm hoping they will be a lot smarter and walk away.
Anonymous 4:22pm earlier commented on the hypocrisy:
"and the immorality that is on obvious display."...
We saw that in a supposed "minister" (One of Rod's Boys!) who covered up an "Elder" running around on his wife, later to leave all COG for good.
We saw the lying and there even was stealing too...
Kids aren't stupid they do see a lot of things as they ARE . . . that's why they get tired of
"Playing Church"
Hey, thanks 11:37. Guess I did kind of give y'all some Newselah Methuselah, (as our Cockney friends might quip!). Thing is, it might provide some of the third gen grandkids a little insight into what made their parents and grandparents be like they are. Might just help them break a bad cycle, and go on to become normal. One can only hope!
Why are young people fleeing the church? From an elder millennial ex-COG'er...
The Message- I don't think this is too varied amongst groups. I speak from a Worldwide/Global/Living experience. You are told from a very early age that you are a called and chosen one. You are taught every one else is deceived. You have the truth though. But... Don't tell your friends much besides you keep the Sabbath, don't eat pork, and you're going to the feast. Church friends are superior to worldly friends. Don't become too much like "the world". When you get older.. Be baptized, find a mate, have kids, rinse and repeat. But here's what today's youth understand more of
A. Science- British Isrealism and 6000 year old mankind creationism will not survive a high school level anthropology/biology class.
B. The message is really gloom and doom. Every world event could be a prophetic sign. Gays are the problem. Mixed races are the problem. Not keeping the Sabbath is the problem. The church isn't dedicated enough to accepting top down government. The work must go out! Which is laughable considering the world is comprised of billions of people and all the magazines are probably read by less then 100,000 who the majority of are "co-workers" who might just like "free" stuff. Oh, and the 5AM telecast infomercial isn't doing anyone any favors.
C. The only history which the COG holds on to is based on false prophecies and promises from a leader/system/college which young people have heard of but are generations a way from experiencing.
D. Branding/Politics- Young people lean left and the church is a hard hard right. It's Fox News versus TikTok. And spoiler alert unless you can market yourself outside of Telecasts (infomercials), Literature (who reads anything this long and mundane), and Facebook ads (Is this still a thing?) you're not going to reach anyone.
E. Creeps- Yeah, the "called out ones" the holy chosen anointed are full of creeps. Creepy and desperate lurchers who try and talk to teenagers. Do you really think anyone wants to talk to these weirdos or be around them by choice? There they are in every group. Single and ready to mingle.
F. Lack of choice- Your choices of mates are limited to your church area, and what used to be your church but the COG's are allowing members to marry others of similar groups because they are already close to losing what little they have.
G. Limited world view- When you're taught that everything outside of church literature, church activities, and church people are insignificant, it makes you reevaluate eventually and compare your life to your friends. They live well-adjusted lives never having to think things like is this ok to do on this day, or am I in the true church, or I really hope I get married before the Great Tribulation. You might be in a cult if many of your thoughts and feelings are not heard, unvalidated, and unanswered. You're supposed to have this unfounded confidence that you are on God's side when really you're a human with doubts and questions that are not accepted if not orthodoxy.
I'm really thankful this blog exists. Anyone with a cursory knowledge of Google should find it if they probe the origins of Armstrongism. It's a bright red warning sign from those who also sojourned in rented halls nervously awaiting an Apocalypse that was always just 5-10 years out of reach. It's for those seeking out what truth is and not just accepting it handed down from a lectern every Saturday.
TLDR They're leaving because they're smart, capable, and wise enough to know better then cling to the rotting festering corpse of a church founded by a charlatan on the back of false prophecies, pseudoscience, and a literal God complex.
Ah yes, the 18+ year olds:
Maybe if there was an ambassadors college for one main church and not all the youth spread out from all the splinter group things would have been easier..
Maybe if they weren’t apart of the unluckiest generation being a millennial. Having to come back home after college and live with a parent or parents.
Maybe if there was one church they could seek employment form the church like the previous generation could.
Maybe if their baby boomer parents didn’t split up their homes because of divorce.
Maybe they get tired of looking at the “sabbath day smile” and the rest of the days of the week there is no change from within.
Maybe they look at life a lot different from the previous generation, seeing all the difficult obstacles out there having to compete in a world that’s global.
It's not just the XCGs that are experiencing this: churches throughout America are struggling to keep the 18-30 demographic interested. (See this Pew Research Center article.)
In all cases, XCG and non-XCG, I see this as a very positive development.
Anonymous 2:44 You are correct and can stop at A. Science- British Isrealism
See young people who are around the age of 18 pretty much grew up going to school with some diversity and have a much broader view of life. Some people have friends from different ethnic backgrounds. They didn’t grow up with a segregated mindset like Mr. Armstrong (especially considering he spent a good deal of his life in the segregated state of Oregon (look up it’s history). Young people around this age are raging with hormones and they would like to find a mate but they are limited. They don’t have that happy hunting ground of AC of old.
Its the leaderships inability to comprehend Paul’s writing on this matter such as:
Romans 9:8 This means that Abraham’s physical descendants are not necessarily children of God. Only the children of the promise are considered to be Abraham’s children. (NLT)
See the older generations still is programed to believe that Jesus Christ is still trying to have a relationship with physical Israel (which He divorced). But the relationship with God & Jesus Christ is with spiritual Israel (1 Peter 2:9-10)
Also the young people have the technology to check up on all the history of what happened back in Worldwide. They have to think within themselves, how could that be the Philadelphia era (brotherly love)?
Education and broader experience tend to make people who were raised in a conservative cult lighten up, become more understanding, and also liberal. To a person who grew up in an extreme conservative and authoritarian environment, shunning those from other backgrounds and of different perspectives, the liberal viewpoint becomes equated with enlightenment and freedom. It is very attractive. The liberal team functions under a very large and inclusive umbrella. It is refreshing as compared to an anal-retentive group of separatists from society at large who only look forward to an apocalypse. Some of us never wanted to be "special" in the weird and distorted ways defined by Armstrongism.
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