Anyone who grew up in the church in the 1960s - mid-1970s heard all about how the church would be fleeing to Petra. In the Dayton area, we had endless sermons on preparing for the Place of Saftey in Petra and how we would make the desert bloom again while staying there for 3 1/2 years.
All kinds of myths popped up about Petra. God was going to place a cloud covering over Petra in order to sleep us cool and prohibit the military from finding Petra and bombing it in order to kill us because after all, the world would be hating us at that point. Jordan was going to open its arms to take us in because of the work AICF and the College did with mentally challenged chidlreninJordan and other projects.
Most of us would be flown over on old DC9 and DC10 planes that were having issues in the 1970s due to malfunctions. The reason for that was the church said that the evil governments would hope our planes crashed on route to Jordan.
My mother kept a detailed chart in the kitchen cupboard where she marked the days off till we were to flee. This calendar was passed onto us at a combined Holy Day service by a recently returned minister from Pasadena where he got the information.
We were also instructed to have Petra kits ready in case we had to flee quickly. They were to have clothing and of course our Bibles.
So, for church leaders and ministers to deliberately lie today that the church never taught any such thing is disgusting. One of the main reasons they deny it is the flack the church got right after Jom Jones led his followers to Guyana where they committed mass suicide.
The Anniston Star Anniston, Alabama Saturday, June 14, 1980
29 comments:
My siblings and I had already left the cult 5 years prior to 1980, and didn't keep up with church news of that era. However, when the news of Jonestown came around, we saw a direct parallel with HWA/WCG. We also saw a parallel between HWA and the Ayatollah Khomeini. Many similarities.
I didn't find out about David Robinson's book until 2001. A fellow dissident from one of the forums shared a copy with me then and I read it for the first time. I couldn't understand how there could even be church members following all of the revelations in that book, but now, because there are still massive numbers of people who believe that the 2020 election was stolen and fraudulent, I have a better understanding of human nature. People believe what they like to believe and revere demagogues regardless of solid facts.
POST SAYS :"Jordan was going to open its arms to take us in because of the work AICF and the College did with mentally challenged chidlren..."
MY COMMENT:
AICF and AC was dominated by "mentally challenged children" and was certainly in no way qualified to be "helping" anyone!
I remember talking with a very jovial fellow in the church one day (he was a wise cracker). I said to him, when we go to Petra, I want the cave right next to yours. He asked why, I said so I have something to laugh about for three and a half years - you are the only guy that could make that happen.
A number of years later, Petra become quite the tourist attraction complete with a number of hotels in the area. A hotel room with possible room service is a lot more enticing than a cave.
A couple of decades later, Dave Pack was teaching that God promised the church mansions and that they would be brought down to earth sooner rather than later for the church members to reside in. We would according to him only be able to get to the place of safety one way at that very dangerous and chaotic time. It would be on the wings of an eagle.
My wife listens to a number of different non COG preachers on YouTube. They all have one major disagreement among themselves. They all have an argument for their belief of either; a pre-tribulation (before the 7 year tribulation) rapture, a mid-tribulation (3 1/2 years into the tribulation) rapture and a post-tribuation rapture.
Pick your choice of the "save your ass" ministries that you like, but in the end, does anyone really think that God is going to perform to any of the COG specific predictions of anything? The WCG track record of prophetic predictions is 100% ......... failure.
My ways are not your ways, and my thoughts are not your thoughts has been so far, a 100% percent accurate statement by God.
IMO - The Petra idea was a physical misunderstanding and attempt to explain a spiritual event.
There is no good exegesis to support either an end time tribulation or a place of safety for the church. The other question is why would God take a little collection of sects that follow in spirit the Circumcision Party to any kind of place of safety? Does not compute.
Have a look at:
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2022/04/why-i-do-not-believe-in-end-time.html
I can hardly imagine that modern day Armstrongists would deny the POS belief. It was well published. Although I did get the feeling that a large segement of the WCG thought the idea of the POS was a stretch - especially after 1972. Nobody upchucked in 1972 when nothing happened that I know of. The "fall back and regroup" defense was that the AC Auditorium was founded in 1972 - or something like that. So the date did mean something.
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9:01. “ MO - The Petra idea was a physical misunderstanding and attempt to explain a spiritual event.”
That may be true, but too many of them lie and claim the church never taught such a thing nor set dates.
I read Dave Robinson's book, "Tangled Web". It was quite a page turner. Some of the stories about HWA turned my stomach. Actually, HWA turns my stomach without the true stories of his vile conduct. The one where he opened his hotel room door to Robinson, stark naked made me want to throw up. Not to mention the story of HWA in the hotel room with his daughter, who was physically trying to keep him from raping her again and the front desk manager came up to see what was going on. HWA said that his "new bride" was just nervous about their wedding night.
It bears repeating, that IMHO, there is no Hell hot enough for that creature. Can you imagine what poor Dorothy endured for a decade? Think about that fat, ugly bastard on top of his own daughter?!?! And he had the unmitigated gall to blame it all on a "frigid" Loma. Filthy, filthy pig.
Who would have kept his secrets in the caves of Petra? Sound travels and he would have had a very hard time keeping his hands to himself. Although Robinson has some stories to tell about that, too!
And of course, we would be remiss in our responsibilities if we did not note W. E. Blackstone (1841-1935), an American evangelist who so believed that Petra was going to be the place of safety for the Jews fleeing battle during Armageddon that he spent thousands of dollars of his own money putting Bibles in the caves, so that the Jews would learn of Jesus Christ while hiding out.
Wonder if Herb and Loma ever heard of him. He's buried at Forest Lawn in Glendale, CA.
GTA, Good News, March 1957:
"As most of you know, God‘s ministers believe the Bible most probably indicates the place of that protection will be PETRA, the “Rose-red city of rock,” buried deep in the rugged mountains to the south-east of Palestine, in the rocky, desolate and practically inaccessable vastness of the ancient land of Edom. Hundreds of you heard Mr. Armstrong describe Petra during the last Feast of Tabernacles-thrilled to the motion pictures of the actual PLACE which God evidently is preparing for His saints!"
I was in the Worldwide from 1968 -1991 and they did teach it as matter of a doctrine. So when someone says they never taught it they are big fat liars. I was there and heard it for years.
The Place of Safety/ Petra is my Second most-hated and loathed doctrine of Armstrongism. Completely founded on bogus interpretation and the whole idea is antithetical to Christ's own words.
Cult? Perhaps in some regards. People weren't taught how to think but only what to think. Much like the public schools' educational system. Proof of that is "enter Tkach duo." The people were so easily maneuvered into apostasy. We paid absolutely no attention to the New Testament scriptural warning about false teachers entering. So blind and naked we were in many aspects. While I did learn of Yehovah's feasts and appointed times while attending there, and have held onto those, as Messiah also did, there was are a number of things taught that need tossed or reviewed. Petra being one of them.
British Israelism is another embarrassing doctrine, but if you back away from that, Armstrongism totally collapses. The foolish man (HWA) built his house upon the sand!
I remember Meredith giving sermons on POS in LCG. LCG position still is there is a POS, but we don't know if it's Petra. I remember telling my wife, "I am not going anywhere a church tells me to go. That will be up to God, Himself to make that one clear."
GTA, Good News, March 1957
And GTA eventually reversed his position. In an ICG sermon, he explained the doctrine's origin, and how, in hindsight, it made no practical sense.
Post-1972, a few ministers mentioned during sermons how they had considered a "shelter in place" seemed more probable than "flee to Petra".
What’s your first loathed doctrine Seth?
My top two least favorite were being against interracial marriage and that we as the LCG were the one true church but that one true church BS is common amongst almost all the splinters.
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Or, the Q is, how much of your tithe moneies were used to pay her to keep her quiet?
When I was going to evangelical, fundamentalist churches, about three years after I left the WCG in the 80's, Petra was talked about quite often.
Herbert and Loma probably heard about the Petra thing from fundamentalists while they were in Oregon. The Scofield Bible would have been available to those people, along with Blackstone's book, and other literature. Herbert, at that time, was looking at various ideas to incorporate into his religious system. Petra made the cut in 1947.
For me, being in GCG/LCG for 20+ years is "government". The multidimensional, all encompassing abuse it can enable I have come to see as an evil thing...
Oh please this had got to be your WORST post by far. Not everyone in RCG and then WCG was comfortable with the Petra flee doctrine.
Even Garner Ted by 1978 was openly preaching against any Church going to Petra. He repeatedly let it be known Petra was chosen because his mom discovered Petra initially by reading a Readers Digest article on it. He put the insiders information out which helped make the Petra location a laughing joke amongst many.
Oh, please 10:54!!!! This has to be the WORST post you have made here so far. You have said a lot of silly stuff lately, but this one is the worst!
I don't understand what the big ruckus is about in the Armstrongists churches concerning the tribulation and the place of safety. These are fictional concepts but the real concepts are just as extraordinary. There will be a Day of the Lord and there will be protection extended to the Elect. The Day of the Lord will involve a cataclysm of global proportions. The cataclysm may be part physical and part spiritual. Some of it may even take place in spirit realms invisible to us. If you want end time cataclysm you will be surfeited. But Amos 5:18 forewarns us that it is really dumb to desire the Day of the Lord
So a cataclysm with the Elect being spared is a part of the end time scenario so why promote the alternative Tribulation/Place of Safety scenario? Some points for consideration:
1) The Trib-POS combination is a part of the ego-stroking special knowledge inventory of Armstrongists. Whereas, the Day of the Lord and sparing of the Elect is generally known in the Christian Movement.
2) The Trib-POS promises that Armstrongists will be taken out of the world and sequestered from any disturbing events. Whereas, The Day of the Lord event seems to suggest that the Elect will remain dispsersed and will witness up close and personal the final events - maybe even play a role in helping people and continuing to make the word of God available.
3) The Trib-POS is hyped as 3.5 years of Feast of Tabernacle conditions - lots of food, booze and thrilling sermons about the world collapse and the specialness of Armstrongists. The Armstrongists ministry sugar coats the events in contravention to what the OT states concerning what ones attitude should be towards cataclysm (Amos 5:18 again). Armstrongists, based on some statements that I have heard, see themselves with popcorn and front row seats watching the nuclear fireworks away from the smell of burning flesh and occasionally breaking into a song with these lyrics:
Gentlemen, Gentlemen,
Be of good cheer,
Because they are out there,
And we are in here.
What I am saying is that there just may be an essential spiritual immaturity in the fascination with the fictive Trib-POS scenario.
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@anon 7:43
'Satan's counterfeit christianity' doctrine takes the cake for me. The doctrine is so blasphemous of the Holy Spirit because it claims that every good thing done by people that arent in the 'one true church' are not fruits of the Holy Spirit because they worship satan instead of the real Christ. According to this doctrine, no matter how successful, a protestant running a soup-kitchen is not exhibiting fruits of the spirit because he goes to church on sunday and therefor worships Satan.
Theres a good interview with Ron Dart done by Dixon Cartright if I remember correctly, where he goes to town on this subject. Its CLOSELY tied to the 'one true church' schtick.
The idea of the POS has become quite close to the protestant idea of heaven and hell, at least in LCG for instance. It's so often talked about as THE goal, like, 'gotta do whatever we can to be in the POS'. So you can sit there in your cave while your neighbors burn. So many people I know seek-first-the-POS, never seeming to remember 'He who seeks to save his life will lose it...'. The very idea undercuts so many things related to personal responsibility, preaching the gospel, loving your neighbor, taking up your cross, being a living sacrifice, etc... It's completely antithetical to Jesus' example.
Jim Jones was a liberal progressive.
In many ways, sure, but whats your point?
Sometimes it was a doctrine that invited all kinds of imaginative speculation, like the egrets of the fountain coming to life and lifting the auditorium by its four corners as if it was a big box that had just been left on the ground in Pasadena.
Despots, tyrants, and demagogues come in all colors. They can be leftists or rightists. The common denominator is a desire to attract multitudes to their particular philosophy, and to use coercive methods such as authoritarianism or mind control to enforce their will upon their followers. It is not as if the ultra right is good, and the ultra left is bad. Or vice versa. They are both flip sides of the same counterfeit coin.
Anon 10:54, I began attending after 1978 and fleeing to Petra was fully taught. Flying in planes (eagles’ wings). What will it be like in the caves? We will be shrouded. Maybe hear some battles. Etc.
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