From a reader:
Hi, I have a bit of a story about Melvin Rhodes giving a sermon that was hypocritical and I'm not sure if he knew it or not.
I was a teenager in the early 90's when this sermon was given because I'm still friends with his daughter, Alex and she's on my Facebook list. I went to Flint/Lansing, MI. Although I think it's BS that he collected pay while he made plans to start UCG I did like the guy. He was easy going unlike the asshole he replaced, Gerald Whittie. I'm sure you've heard stories about him.
One of the very few times I paid attention to a sermon Melvin was talking about clean/unclean meat. He said that today pork and other biblical unclean meats are most likely just as clean as biblical clean meat so they aren't as dangerous as they were in ancient times due to technological advances.
But the unclean meats are still a no, no because the only person who could change that rule was Jesus and he didn't, so we are bound by those dietary rules.
Now even though I left WCG in 95 and I love a big ham sandwich I didn't think of the hypocrisy in what he said till years later. (Also I'm not the brightest color in the ol' crayola box) but the COG's don't pay or collect tithe under the directions in the Bible. Therefore tithes shouldn't be collected.
29 comments:
Living in Israel in the 70's and early 80's pork was readily available and served where I lived, at least three-four times a month.
My home town was a very secular environment.
I also worked in a pig processing plant after returning home, for 6 months or so, where I made lots of good hard earned cash.
And ate whatever was in front of me.
I then became 'religious', a member of the church and the rest is history. Today I don't eat pork. I don't like it, but I am also of Jewish heritage. I observe the dietary laws as I am able. I don't attend any church.
I will attend the local Shul as I am able. That is home.
I believe Paul was quite open and the scripture is plain with regards to the eating of clean and 'unclean' foods.
We are saved by grace and that through faith..... Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness and that before the 'Law' and while uncircumcised..........not by what he did or did not eat.
As it is written 'work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.....' It's your choice.............to pork or not to pork.
Nearly all FLU BUGS come from swine. Birds defecate in a pig pen, and avian flu gets into the swine.
Swine flesh and human flesh are very similar BTW. In the Pigs body, the avian flu transmogrifies to be able to transfer to humans.
Thus, the reason to not eat swine may be because if you are eating pigs, it means you are around pigs and pig cultivation, and you can catch the flu!
China, a huge pork eating society, is often the origin of flu , including Covid, the Hong Kong flu, and Swine flu.
I guess you have never raised chickens. They are just as filthy and nasty as pigs. They eat feces, eat other chickens who have died, and regularly are infected with the flu and other diseases. I would rather eat pork in this day and age.
Both 6:21 and 6:47 are correct and have their points. The difference lies in the fact that God created clean and unclean animals for a purpose. Pigs are not meant for consumption but chickens are. One of the two reasons (the other being the Plan of Salvation) why I cannot reject Armstrongism is I cannot deny the truth in clean and unclean meat. How can ex WCG members who once followed this health principle suddenly find unclean meat clean again? This is hypocrisy. God as our Creator knows what is good good for our body. It is for our own good, physically, not salvational no doubt.
If we can appreciate the physical, we can appreciate the spiritual
If we eat unclean meat, we shorten our lifespan. A shortened life span means less overcoming, and a lesser reward in the kingdom. So it's wise to invest in eating quality foods.
So don't let these unclean food eaters deceive you, and swindle you out of a good eternal reward.
Some of us couldn't because of the heavy aversion therapy Armstrongism laid on us. Even though I left Armstrongism when God failed to validate Herbert W. Armstrong at the great disappointment of 1972-75, and have since proven that all of HWA's doctrines are pure eisegetic sh!t, so-called unclean meats still disgust me all these decades later, and if I smell my neighbors grilling porkchops outdoors during the warm summer months, I want to vomit. The good news is that because of the outstanding health records of Seventh Day Adventists, I believe that the avoidance of eating scavenger animals is responsible for my own excellent health, and really don't miss swine or seafood. Giving that stuff up has not really been any kind of sacrifice or inconvenience at all, considering the benefits. I do kind of miss smoking every time I'm around someone who is lighting up a cigarette though. But, due to the national paradigm shift on that over the past several decades, that hardly ever happens any more.
11:47 "If we eat unclean meat, we shorten our lifespan. A shortened life span means less overcoming, and a lesser reward in the kingdom."
That is not true at all. What a load of crap.
1.31 AM
"What a load of crap."
Instead of just invalidating a point of view, how about some facts and a line of reasoning? The scientific method thingy.
Or are we expected to treat your words as words from God's own lips?
Every so often this blog posts the most absurd posts imaginable. What is this tripe served cold ?
Can anyone contact Melvin Rhodes for clarification or comment? I'm no big fan of his but he deserves better treatment and is a widely respected good writer on world events.
God did not tell man not to eat unclean meats because they would make us sick, although they would. God told us not to eat them because He is holy. and He wants us to be like Him, Holy. Unclean meats would make us unholy. It is also a test of our obedience to him over our dietary desires. If we cannot be obedient to him in the foods he commands us not to eat, a daily choice to obey, then how can he trust us to obey Him in others......Lev 11:44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. We become unclean also from our disobedience. God does not dwell with uncleanness.
11:47 said: “ A shortened life span means less overcoming, and a lesser reward in the kingdom.”
Really?! Where does it say that in the Bible?! It’s quality not quantity that’s important so if you think a longer life means less sin in life and a greater reward in the Kingdom I’m sorry but you are just plain wrong! It’s more likely the longer one lives the greater possibility of sin! There’s plenty of sick people who’ve lived long lives who have only committed worse acts over time despite claiming to be Christian. And it says in Isaiah 65:20 “the sinner [being] an hundred years old shall be accursed” so age has nothing to do with salvation! Further Christ’s parable in Matthew 20 demonstrates the reward is equal for all God’s people ie eternal life irrespective of human differences or inequalities in this age.
I would die without enjoying my pork and shellfish. Paul had quite a lot to say about clean vs unclean foods. In 1 Cor 10:31 he writes, "The fact is, that whatever you eat or drink-whatever you to-do it all for the glory of God". Jesus Himself said in Matthew 15:11, "It is not what goes into a man's mouth that defiles him, it is what comes out of his mouth that defiles".
I will say, though, that we are warned against causing our brothers and sisters grief over their eating or not eating of meats. As Paul said, whatever you eat, do it for the glory of God. To each his own. This is not a salvivic issue. Now, I am going to enjoy my bacon and eggs breakfast!
Anon 5:18 commented: God did not tell man not to eat unclean meats because they would make us sick
Good answer! We don't need "reasons" to keep commands other than we are told to. "Health rules" is how WCG interpreted the "dietary restrictions"; HWA needed a "reason" to keep commands so they would "make sense" to him.
5.39 AM
"Where does it say that in the bible?"
It's inherent in the parable of the talents. Plants and animals can only grow so fast. Which is true for human development as well. For instance, if two near identical people got baptized at age twenty, and one lived 30 years while the other lived sixty years, the latter will govern twice as many cities in God's kingdom, since he/she grew twice as much. This assumes that both were growing at the same rate of course.
So looking after ones health has eternal consequences.
So I urge Banned readers to lose weight, not drink excessive alcohol, to
exercise half an hour per day, and definitely not smoke and eat unclean foods.
"It's inherent in the parable of the talents. Plants and animals can only grow so fast. Which is true for human development as well. For instance, if two near identical people got baptized at age twenty, and one lived 30 years while the other lived sixty years, the latter will govern twice as many cities in God's kingdom, since he/she grew twice as much. This assumes that both were growing at the same rate of course. "
That is absurd and has no biblical basis. Surely you are just trolling everyone.
Remember the parable of the farmer who hires people to work in his fields and they all get the same pay regardless if they were there all day or one hour. Salvation is not dependent upon works nor does it include the silly myth that COG members will become gods and rule over planets. The stupidity that comes out of Armstrongism is appalling.
Interesting discussion. I grew up in a Kosher kitchen although I am not Jewish. It was a result of my mother's adherence to the Biblical dietary laws preached by the Radio/Worldwide Church of God.
To this day, I do not knowingly eat pork. I agree with Tonto. It's a remnant belief I still hold on to from growing up in the R/WCG. And I say "knowingly" because my wife tells me when the subject of my not eating pork comes up that I have eaten pork - that I just didn't know it. :)
Richard
10.12 AM
You sound like pathological attacker Kevin, so I'm retiring from this discussion.
I doubt very much if that is Kevin. Kevin defends the lies of Armstrongism, but 10:12 does not. You can't defend your premise so you pitch a little fit and act like Norma Desmond on the stairs.
Well. The tithing remark is of merit: the Levitical Priesthood (LP) based tithing laws came and went with the LP. Eating pork: not sanctified by the Word of God - 1Tim 4:5. The apostle Peter agrees.
11.13 AM
There's no way that God will allow a verbally violent person like Kevin into His kingdom. So the (wishful) beliefs expressed in 10.12 are consistent with such a person.
But chickens are made to digest their food differently
Let's face it: Life after 50 basically sucks anyway, and on so many levels. And, I say this even though as I've aged, I probably have done better than most because Armstrongism deprives young people of so many of the good things and activities that really make life enjoyable that I am still making up for many of the things I missed out on as a teenager. I have always considered that to be HWA's primary gift to me, the zest for life I gained once I realized he was fos and left the cult. My experience would be analogous to someone turning on the lights for Franz Kafka, or going from black and white surroundings to color.
Really better to enjoy the one life you are sure of (in proper balance, altruism, and moderation) and be done than to have to face eternal life under the Armstrong paradigms. I think that's probably why mainstream Christians teach eternal torment in hell. When it comes right down to it, eternal death is no punishment at all!
I feel like I heard similar sermons around this time from others.
Or do drugs or LIE.
I doubt Kevin’s been around since 2020, but what do I know. In any case I don’t think that was Kevin replying and even if it is who cares. He’s entitled to his opinion and free to express it like we all are so just agree to disagree and move on~
But sure, with the benefit of refrigeration and other modern practices, the most obvious health concerns of the Iron Age have been largely eliminated in the West. That much is true. Unless you're eating your meat nearly raw, things like trichnosis arent the concern they once were. Of course, on the flip side, beef hot dogs and beef bologna are pretty likely to kill ya too if consumed in excess, and the core question is whether those ancient dietary restrictions were given as a "health law" or a ritual abstinence of holiness that wasnt necessarily based on just health principles.
And then there's the locust...
So, according to 1 Cor 10:31, if I choose to drink Camp Lejeune water to the glory of God, everything is ok? Or if I, according to Matt 15:11, want to eat dog excrement or become a cannibal, all is well? I know the comeback---those things are not legitimate food! Exactly--which is why God gave us these laws in Lev11 and Deut 14.
Bullinger's commentary says, "These laws are not arbitrary. Food plays a chief part in health and sickness. It is our wisdom to obey these laws now, as far as possible. All are based on the preservation and health of the race".
Peter in Acts 10:14, many years after Matt 15:11 was spoken, says that he had never eaten anything common or unclean. Either he was too stupid to understand what Christ at the time was talking about OR Christ was referring to something different altogether. Judge for yourself.
We can all agree that this is not a salvation issue and that health is a complex and personal choice. Like it or not we all shall reap what we sow.
I still refuse to eat pork because many studies have shown it is one of the most unhealthy meats on the market, due to unhealthy living conditions for the pigs and so on. It is not just a religious matter for me. When people develop health issues such as high cholesterol, the first food doctors will tell you to avoid is pork.
Kevin hung around for the express purpose of doing battle with specific individuals. When there were more numerous COG-accountability/recovery sites, he'd follow these people from site to site. His personality never changed or grew over the years. He was always just as you saw him here. And, he usually signed his posts, or used his initials, except when posting anonymously to compliment himself.
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