Worth a discussion: Trooisto has left a new comment on your post "LCG has 90 New Members in the United States! Woo Hoo!":
I'm preparing for a trip to Utah, so I asked an LCG associate if he had eaten at Castle Burger while he was at the FoT in Utah last month.
The LCG associate, in true COG form, could not answer my harmless question without including a disparaging remark about Mormons.
So I said something like those Mormons are a wild and crazy bunch with so many doctrines coming from a book outside of the Bible.
The COGlodyte then added, "just like the Catholics and Protestants".
I replied that the COGs were known for their doctrines that were not found in the Bible and gave him three examples.
For each example, he could not cite any scripture but said that he felt they were addressed in the Bible, and to my surprise, he said, "these are not salvation issues, so it doesn't matter".
After being shocked by his statement I agreed that these examples were not salvation issues but said justification is a salvation issue that LCG will not address.
The COGlodyte said I was wrong and texted me a link to LCG sermons and literature and told me to do a search.
I searched on the spot and could not find a direct match for the word justification.
He then sent me a link to the LCG Statement of Beliefs and said I would find it covered there.
To my surprise, I did find the word justifies in the Statement of Beliefs (I have not yet compared this current Statement with older versions to see if it was recently added). However, this is what was written: "God justifies us from past sins."
Then the Statement of Beliefs goes on to describe how you must keep the law to earn salvation.
The LCG rendering of justification is not biblically accurate.
God forgives (not justifies) us of past sins - present and future sins too. However, the definition of justification is Jesus' righteousness is given to us to make us righteous. This righteousness, from Jesus, is the only righteousness God accepts - and it is not relegated to cover the past - it's an ever-present, forever righteousness that is the only way we can enter the Kingdom.
I guess I'm glad that LCG is looking at the concept of justification but I'm also appalled to see how badly they've mangled the term.
When I pointed out the LCG's egregious mistake to my LCG associate, he quickly changed the subject to how LCG is coming out with a new booklet on Germany.
He seemed excited about this new booklet, which surprised me because one of my examples of extra-biblical doctrines beloved by the COGs was phrased as "Does the Bible reveal the identity of modern Germany".
He kind of admitted that Germany was not named in the Bible.
However, just like his church and fellow COGlodytes, they get much more excited about a non-biblical topic, mere speculation, of the antics of that evil Germany then they care about a beautiful concept that is lovingly displayed in the Bible, such as justification.
This LCG associate would not comment on my wondering if the new LCG booklet on Germany will cover any of the failed prophesies about Germany preached by HWA during the 1930s and 1940's, any of the failed prophesies involving Germany that were recorded in the booklet "1975 in Prophesy", or any of Dr. Winnail's recent praise of that disgraced booklet.
With all the biblical proof that racial/ethnic identity don't matter because we are all one in Jesus, I cannot fathom why LCG feels they can get away with hate speech about the Germans.
16 comments:
Often the cog member will ridicule a belief by
Cog members simply need to find but one thing they disagree with in non-cog churches to dismiss them, even while at the same time they do not agree with some cog teachings.
Many in the cogs disagree with COG teachings and instead believe:
Okay to vote,
Okay to protect family with a lethal weapon,
Eating out on Saturday inconsistent with other COG sabbath commands,
Claim they don’t care what HWA said(though that is their religion),
Don’t believe in COG tithing,
Don’t believe Noah will separate races in the Millennium,
Don’t believe in shunning family members that believe differently,
Etc.
But, they are still locked into believing the COGs have the Truth and others are deceived.
A LCG member came at me talking down to me about something I believe. I was ready to prove to him with scriptures and history why I believe what I believe. I questioned him about a doctrine and told him to prove it to me with the scriptures. No response. It's really sad when you believe in something whole heartily but you are afraid and refuse to actually prove it.
"The LCG associate, in true COG form, could not answer my harmless question without including a disparaging remark about Mormons"
MY COMMENT:
Mormon or not, I have always thought that Marie Osmond was hot!
The justification a born again believer receives as a result in placing our faith in the completed, finished Work of Jesus is the foundation of salvation. Its' very foundational platform that supports a Christians rest in the propitiation by Jesus as the ONLY means by which we are saved. No works added. No Mosaic law adherence. Christ and He alone. The moment we place our faith not just in Him, but in his life, death, burial, resurrection and ascension (which IS THE GOSPEL 1st Cor. 15:1-4), we are now His and have (past tense) passed from death to life. We have (ongoing from the moment of belief to eternity future) been made the righteousness of God through Christ. It is a gift from God, hence not something we could ever, ever work for or earn. That is a despicable insult to God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus, who bore the punishment the law required for sin. Anyone who tries to get that salvation and the ensuing justification by their own works, law, holy days, diet, etc is saying, sorry Jesus...you didn't do quite enough to redeem me. Sorry God, your free gift really should have strings attached to it so I can free myself from the guilt I feel for getting everything for nothing (except faith) and I think you need my help to make me right with you, so I will work for it.
God help these cults and every single member in them.
Response to DW: We are certainly not justified by our works but we are rewarded according to them (Rom. 2:6). The following is just a brief summary of New Testament requirements for Christians:
Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized...
Acts 26:20 ...do works fitting for repentance
1 Cor. 5:8 Let us keep the Feast
1 Cor. 6:9-10 Forbidden: fornication, adultery, drunkenness, effiminancy, stealing, coveting
1 Cor 7:19 keeping the commandments of God
1 Cor. 11:28 Let a man examine himself
Eph. 4:25 Put away lying and speak the truth (9th commandment)
Eph. 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more (8th commandment)
Eph 5:3 Let fornication, all uncleaness, and covetousness not once be named among you (7th and 10th commandments)
James 1:22 Be doers of the word, not hearers only (verse 24 says that we must change the kind of person we had been)
James 5:12 swear not
1 Peter 2:11 abstain from fleshly lusts
Rom. 13:9 specifically forbids: killing, stealing, lying, coveting
2 Tim. 2:15 Study to show yourself approved to God.
If repentance is required, and repentance means to stop sinning, and sin is transgression of the law (KJV) or lawlessness (other translations), then why is there such a resentment to "keeping the law"? Doesn't "keeping the law" mean "don't sin"?
My bet is that any answer will involve some part of the law to keep and some not. Everyone, COG and non-COG alike, are good at cafeteria-style law keeping.
And to those who bring up the "New Covenant" to escape law: this stance is somewhat amusing. The new covenant will be old testament and new testament laws, as noted by 8:56, written in our hearts - Jer 31:33.
10:48 said "And to those who bring up the "New Covenant" to escape law: this stance is somewhat amusing. The new covenant will be old testament and new testament laws, as noted by 8:56, written in our hearts - Jer 31:33."
What a load of crap! The old covenant is just that, OLD, OBSOLETE, no longer in force. Besides that, why in the world in the New Jerusalem would there be a need for the Bible? If you are living in perfect harmony with God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, WHY, oh WHY, would anyone care about some old laws meant for a specific people. Legalists will say anything they can to prove they need to keep the law and yet they do NOT keep it and never will. Scritpture specifically states they are incapable of keeping it. Thats why someone came who did it perfectly, on our behalf. But, COG members dont know that because the ministry lies to them about the law, grace, and justification.
Response to Anon @8:56. Agree with you that we are not justified by our works, but it is the Holy Spirit dwelling the believer who cultivates our heart, mind, tongue and spirit to please God, not our own efforts. We are born dead and capable of atrocities, and I agree we must repent, but it is the Spirit at work in us who effects that change. God tells us that our works are as filthy rags. We can do nothing beyond what was accomplished by Jesus, except trust Him to guide us. Rest in Him and his completed work on the cross. This is the Work of God...Believe in Him who He has sent. Gerald Waterhouse actually said in a sermon that this was a reference to HWA!
I try almost everyday to bring the legalists the viewpoint of a born again Christian, saved by grace through FAITH, apart from works and law keeping. Sometimes I feel like an exhausted, one armed wallpaper hanger by the end of it!
10:18 makes a valid point. Regardless of the variety of "Christian" one claims to be, nearly all would point to at least some aspect of the "law" that if violated, would result in "sin" which the Bible itself defines as the "transgression of the law" or in some translations, simply as "lawlessness." See 1John 3:4
For example, nearly all Christians would agree that the act of murdering someone would be a "sin" and a violation of "law," both civil law and moral code, and specifically a violation of the sixth commandment, as listed in Exodus 20.
Jesus Himself came preaching repentance. "Repent, for the Kingdom of heaven is near." and "Repent and believe in the gospel." See Matthew 4:17 and Mark 1:15. His call to repentance was to "sinners", and His intention was to extend mercy to them. See Matthew 9:10-13 and Luke 5:32. He never the less, did require something from them. They were to repent, and believe.
If the "New Covenant" cancels out the need to keep the "law" or any aspect of it, using the logic that Jesus kept it, or as some might use the term "fulfilled" it, so therefore we don't have to, with no further explanation or caveat, that creates a problem, and runs completely counter to statements we find in the New Testament. Even in speaking of the New Covenant, and the more perfect sacrifice of Jesus, the concept of God's laws being written in the hearts and minds of those who understand and accept that more perfect sacrifice is expressed. See Hebrews 10:8-18
Even the most free and easy Evangelical Christian would be hard pressed to excuse the continued act of murder by someone who has given lip service to "belief" in Jesus Christ. And yet, if we follow the logic that Jesus kept the "law," so that relieves us of any obligation to keep it or pay attention to it, one could make the argument that murder, as a transgression of the law, or act of lawlessness shouldn't matter, if one claims belief in Jesus, because we aren't required under the New Covenant to honor or keep that law.
We could also ask, if justification is to be understood as the righteousness of Jesus being given to us, making us righteous, as the original poster defines justification, then what exactly would that mean in practice? Does simply the profession of a belief in Jesus or love of Jesus suffice, without any outward evidence of said belief or love? And if so, then how do we reflect the justification or righteousness of Jesus that is supposed to be within us?
Nearly all of us would agree that the act of murdering someone does not reflect the love of Jesus or demonstrate a belief in Him, regardless of the words someone might utter. And while I agree that the COGs have a tendency to cherry pick which aspects of the "law" they try to apply or not, so does everyone else to one degree or another, and all have their own reasoning and justification behind their choices. Most Christian sects at least pay lip service to the concept of "repentance" in some form, and if a change in behavior isn't expected, then why would there be a need to threaten anyone with the idea of burning in hell? Can a murderer still murder and live forever with God, as long as he or she professes belief in Jesus? If so, then how do we reconcile New Testament passages such as John 14:15, 1John 2:4, or 1John 3:4-10?
Concerned Sister
For those of you on twitter - Jesus Christ now has a verified account.
Maybe now that he is back, he is planning trips to Wadsworth - where he can see the horses -and Edmond - where he can sit on his throne (if Flurry will let him).
Germany is a threat to nobody. They are finished. The Nordstream pipeline explosion will ensure their decline for perhaps decades to some. You can't rebuild a wiped out industrial base overnight. Just ask the poor countries. Economic collapse is next. First Europe, then debt-ridden America. This is what the communists and their "green" friends have been working towards for decades. Churchill tried to warn us.
Jesus is really the pagan mystery god. That is what Wadsworth needs to know most. It becomes clear when comparing the Bible to paganism. But what bible student reads about paganism?
Germany has NO future. Fear them not. America controls Europe.
https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/566536-europe-decline-world-model/
10:31
You're not thinking in the long term. It was only 3 short decades ago when America was at its height as the unipolar superpower of the world. But, even then other nations and groups of nations were rising like Europe and China even though short sighted pundits thought that Europe and China would always stay as friends of America. So like I told those back then I tell you the same just because it looks like Europe (and Germany by extension) has no "future" and is a vassal state of America doesn't mean it will always be so. Just wait till America implodes leaving Europe to fill the vacuum and take its "rightful" place (as it sees it once again) in history. Do you forget how over the last 3 years alone liberal democratic governments of the West turned into dictatorial hell holes for its citizens?! It'll just take the right catalyst for everything (as prophesied in the Bible) to fall into place.
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