Given the track record of LCG ministers when they were still in WCG and later Global,
would you really trust them with "wise counsel"?
The year is winding down and Doug Winnail has continued to pull his old file drawer open and randomly pull out another tired repeat. LCG members need to seek wise counsel when they have problems or questions. That wise decision-making should include going to the ministry, the authority upon everything!
The Value of Counsel: A common pitfall in life is trusting in our own judgment when we only see part of the picture. Making decisions or taking actions based on our own opinions can be costly—to ourselves and others. This is why Solomon wrote in Proverbs 3:5, “Lean not on your own understanding,” and in Proverbs 3:7, “Do not be wise in your own eyes,” and again in Proverbs 28:26, “He who trusts in his own heart is a fool.” Solomon also warned in Proverbs 14:12, “There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.” To help us avoid making serious mistakes, God inspired Solomon to write in Proverbs 11:14, “Where there is no counsel, the people fall; but in the multitude of counselors there is safety” and in Proverbs 15:22, “Without counsel, plans go awry, but in the multitude of counselors they are established.” We can obtain wise counsel by studying the book of Proverbs and by seeking advice from parents, the ministry, and more experienced people who can be objective and see a bigger picture than we can see on our own. These are the benefits that come when we learn the value of counsel.
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
26 comments:
The reality is that ACOG ministers are at war with church members, and want intimate knowledge of all members in order to keep them chained to their group.
Contrary to the impression ministers give, there is no confidentiality, legally and practically, with information given by members. Ministers also keep a "dirt file" on all members. The dirt file is forever used as a club against members who question church doctrine or resist lording ministers.
Morally, most ACOGs ministers are thugs with no respect for members rights and privacy. Please take note of the lack of mention of these traits in church literature.
Ministers need to be treated like lepers for one's own safety.
Th his one feels like it was used only a couple of weeks ago, Doug... the reality is that rather than having a problem with the membership not seeking "counsel", they have a ministry problem who have over inflated ego's thinking the members need to ask permission for every decision in their lives.
12:36
While no fan of the COGs, that's a bit of an exaggeration in my experience and view.
This one feels like it was used only a couple of weeks ago
January 2008, October 2010, August 2017, August 2020.
I don't understand why, if Doug likes an item enough to share it again, he then changes a few random words to make it just a little different. If it's worth re-sharing, why not just re-share it instead of changing around a few words that don't change the meaning of the item?
“The Value of [LCG] Counsel:” <= 0
Cut all the Earthly middle men out! Simply ask SIRI anything you want, and you will get answers!
12:36 "ministers...want intimate knowledge of all members in order to keep them chained...
there is no confidentiality with information given by members. Ministers also keep a "dirt file" on all members. The dirt file is forever used as a club.."
Yeah, they were also cruel "Lovebusters", they took my girl from me. (see piece in Ambassador Report called 'Lovebusters' for similar stories)
Let's look at the whole CONTEXT of "lean not to your own understanding."
Proverbs 3:5-7 TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL YOUR HEART And do not lean on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And HE WILL MAKE YOU PATHS STRAIGHT.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the Lord and turn away from evil.
Every religious narcissist uses the "seek a multitude of counsel" bullshit to intimidate their followers into seeking their counsel for anything the narcissists wants to weigh in on. Believing you are an agent of God is the most arrogant and narcissistic character flaw one could have and using scripture like this to get people to come to you when you label every resource outside the cult as "demonic" and do the absolute opposite of seek a multitude of counsel is just cult and religious thought stopping 101. These Herb wannabes make me want to vomit. Get over your fucking selves. You don't represent God. You are the root of all evil. All your COGs are the root of evil and everyone pretending ANY of it is okay is also not agents of God but agents of evil. Not Satan. Not spiritual crap. Just good old fashion human evil. Me. Me. Me. And my God. Me. And My Salvation. My Worldview. Me. It's all about Me. Get over yourselves. You're wasting your life and destroying the lives of others.
I knew a Pastor in UCG who openly urged people during services to call him during the week... almost like he was lonely.
The idea here is that when members seek counselling, they are tapping into God's devine will for them because God works through his ministers. Well they must be right about things because they are ordained by God as his true ministers. There are several problems with this flawed logic, and I wish our brethren would truly wake up in time. These miniseters act as though their mere opinions are from God just because because because "We are ministers", but that's all it is, just mostly uninformed opinions about things. These ministers have no experience and training in premarital counselling, conflict resolution skills, and most things in life for which a lay person might need counselling and direction. These ministers also think that whenever a member has a decision to make they just automatically need the minister to advise them, whether they do or not. More like control them. Ministers and members also labor under the Devil's burden that members must obey ministers no matter what, and of course the ministers agree with that. I say that it is a form of idolatry. Do studdy the lessons we can learn from the man of God and the lying prophet. These ministers think that just by them knowing doctrine that it solves everything in life, and that's all that matters. Never mind the weightier matters of the law. Also, if one is to obey these ministers when they insert themselves into people's lives, isn't this essentially bypassing the guidance of the Holy Bible and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit? And what about this free moral agency they talk about? These miniseters say they are just giving guidance, but they really become upset when one doesn't follow their bad counselling and do what they say. They insist that one obeys them because they are God's true ministers, and yet they stand aloof from the consequences of their bad advice in the poor member's life. A good Christian counselling service is far far better than any of these little boy ministers. I speak as a former ministerial trainee and candidate from WCG and LCG.
Doug received a multitude of counsel about his desire to remarry the wife who had first divorced him before she married and divorced another man. The counsel Doug received was nearly unanimous. But did he take heed of that counsel? Doug is really not the right person to be delivering the "listen to a multitude of wise counsel" message. LCG members can see right through him.
That's hilarious.
I recall a Pastor upon his employment retirement announcing to the congregation how he now had lots of spare time to visit all members in their own homes during the week.
11:21, why is Winnail still ministering in LCG if he is guilty of adultery?
(Taking back an unrepentant woman who committed adultery makes you an adulterer. And adultery puts you out of the kingdom; 1 Cor 6:9-10)
I can understand his fellow toadies in the ministry backing him up but what about the members? Are they conniving at evil too?
You need help 10:17.
Anon 12:36.
I totally agree with you. The religious leaders in Jesus's time on earth hated Jesus and his followers and still do to this day.
Trust in the Lord.
An LCG "pastor" in charge of a large portion of the earth told me that "ministers have a double portion of the spirit", the implication is that they have more holy spirit and are closer to God by virtue of their position. When O challenged him on that concept he could not prove it, but said something vague about Elijah.
All of HWAs close advisers counseled him against marrying his last wife. When she filed for divorced, he wrote in church literature that the Devil was using her to destroy him. So much for following a multitude of counselors.
So they are admitting they alone are wise? They need counsel. They are the ones trying to endlessly implement an old covenant approach to a new covenant era. They are laughable. Did they use counsel with that Mr. Munson incident?
Did they use counsel with that Mr. Munson incident?
You sound like you are misinformed. Monson used RCM as his own personal Meat Shield for many years, bucking Church Administration policies and crying to the Presiding Evangelist to avoid being disciplined, always claiming that his doing so was "obeying church government." Then, when the church government changed and wasn't to his liking, he ran off to do his own thing. Winnail and Weston were heavy handed and blunt with Monson, no doubt, but they are usually heavy handed and blunt. It was Monson in this case who changed his tune and suffered the consequences of doing so.
Sheldon Monson and Michael Elertson made a big show of standing up against Mr. Weston and for what they supposedly believed. So much for that, and they were easily bribed bback into LCG. For all Sheldon Monson's pretense of standing up for his concerns about LCG, he was happy enough to take a monetary bribe from them and a regular pay cheque from them for years. So now this mouthy elertson who was pretty hard on congregations with his insecurity over his place in LCG and just being a real asshole is now divorced from Rozalin and remarried in Monson's group and his ex is in cogwa courting with a church-hopping guy there. So much for good ministers. One could see it coming. Do we want to have counselling from these messed up hirelings? really?
I regret that I did not get the opportunity to counsel with RCM about the whens and hows of proper wife spanking, and fear I'm doing it all wrong, because she just giggles a lot.
Reeling from that unfortunate shutting of the door to RCM's vast wisdom, I am determined to gain the counsel of Mario Hernandez on the topic of hair coloring.
I need to know what is the most manly color for me, in trying to please God - and should the carpet match the drapes?
I'm desperate to learn at the feet of Mario how he keeps his lovely hair from becoming a vanity sin.
I know Wallace G. Smith has so much to teach me about healthy eating habits but I fear I may never obtain his wise counsel because he refuses to speak with me.
Just one slip-up in calling him Walrus and he holds a grudge - I just know he has the most intriguing wisdom on why unforgiveness and gluttony are no longer sins, if done in his style.
If Doug Winnail would give me the time, we could walk and talk all day.
There's just so much I would like to ask him, but if I was held to only one topic I would seek his wisdom on why he thinks it's good shepherding to rehash these shallow writings given to his starving sheep.
COGs are far different from even your day Diehl.
One could see it coming.
This is something that has puzzled me about the ACOGs. Again and again, the brethren have recognized problem ministers many years before they blow out of one organization or another and do a lot of damage. Brethren were warning Global HQ about Dave Pack for many years, but RCM backed and defended Pack again and again, losing hundreds of members because of his decision to keep Pack in a position of power. Even today, if you could convince LCG members to speak freely, they could point to a couple of outright tares that Weston is keeping around but who will sooner or later cause big trouble. Yet the "big men" either don't see the problems or choose not to do anything about them. Why?
My response to Anon 4:48
Did they use counsel with that Mr. Munson incident?
You sound like you are misinformed.
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Listen, I just asked a question. I didn't make a statement. Try and understand what the difference is between a question and and a statement. It's not me that made Munson a minister in the first place. It's not me who followed him to his group. Sounds like they didn't make wise counsel making him a minister in the first place. LOL
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