NOTE: This is the 26-page letter that Aleksandar Sasha Veljic sent to Bob Thiel concerning the abysmal corruption going on in the Continuing Church of God in Africa. The very things that have been discussed over the last decade on this blog about how Bob was being used have all come true in an appalling train wreck. Yet, Bob continues to stick his head in the sand and still claims he is the fastest-growing church in this age. It is abundantly clear that the improperly named "continuing" Church of God has been a fraud from day one, and Bob knows it!
MY CONSCIENCE NO LONGER ALLOWS ME TO PREACH ON BEHALF OF THE CONTINUING CHURCH OF GOD
March 1, 2023
After 7 years of fellowship and service to the Continuing Church of God, I have come to the point that I can no longer preach and fellowship under the auspices of that church organization whose founder believes it to be THE Philadelphian organization even though not all members of it are Philadelphian. Sure, there are some outstanding examples of Philadelphians as far as I could experience (Sharon Paz, John Shackleton, Ritchie White, Shirley Gestro, Jamie Stonham, Bill Wedekind, Dick Kooistra, Ezekiel Ombaso, Grantone Otieno, Aleksandar Stanisavljevic ...). However, for some people who have crept into CCOG, one even has to wonder if they have ever been converted (most of the leaders in African congregations)! And, yes, I am sure that certain individuals who have manifested very Laodicean attitude would say: and what about your conversion? And I am sure they will be very happy that I have departed, as much as I am happy to put all my experience with them behind me.
This has not been an easy decision and it has taken me years to think, meditate, consider, and consult with God about what I should do or should I keep silent before the local members about the terrible things that I have seen, and the evidence of which I have heard about in CCOG.
When I joined CCOG in February 2016, I was a host for the local scattered congregation in Serbia, which had its own rich history. I basically led that group of people into CCOG. We were a formed congregation in our own right, but we did have a conviction that we wanted a broader Church community and did not want to pretend to be “independents”. None is independent in this world and God certainly called His people everywhere as a spiritual body of Christ. My motive to join CCOG was to further the Gospel message around the world and prevent potential division within the local congregation because there were a couple of people who obviously planned to separate from others and then join CCOG and promote themselves as representatives of Philadelphians in Serbia. Not to mention that those two people were self-righteous, selfish individuals who had a big opinion of themselves and looked down upon others. As I have been always very sensitive to divisions and separations, I moved to prevent their plan that I had read. In spite of the fact that I never planned to join any hierarchical Church of God, even though I am fully aware of Herbert Armstrong's teachings in that regard, I opted to join CCOG with no fear. Later, the two haughty individuals went their way when they became too abusive of the members. Prior to their departure, I was exposed to their verbal abuses every Sabbath, as well as other members, before I decided to stop it. I never thought that verbal abuses and accusations would appear in an organization whose members should behave as a Philadelphian remnant. One of the reasons to join CCOG was encouragement by the overseer Bob Thiel that CCOG hierarchy is the true one and it is not what used to be used in a hierarchy and that is the abuse of various members. Yes, I was zealous to find for the faith once delivered to the saints, just as I had done back in 1995. In 1995, I happened to be an AC student when the Tkachian falling away occurred, so I organized a student underground and resisted those heresies everywhere I could, helped by some College staff members and instructors.
Once I joined CCOG, I noticed that the next verse to the one about the struggle for the faith once given for all in the Epistle of Jude has also been fulfilled in CCOG: “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ”. I had already witnessed in the past individuals who crept into God’s Church with different motives, but what I have experienced in CCOG was without precedent. Namely, I found some people who resist the basic teachings of the Church, a local host in Michigan who opposed the teachings and preaching of the overseer; pouring not small amounts of money to the “black continent” where there is one person in charge of everything and the funds are being squandered on various things that have nothing to do with the Gospel, yet there is no determination to stop it. I have tried to subtly and respectfully raise concerns about some of that to the overseer, but nothing has changed. My friends, who I believe to be individuals of integrity, whose hearts are in the preaching of the Gospel for a witness, also tried to raise relevant issues, but to no avail. The word of an “evangelist” from Africa always prevailed against any report and issue, as well as against any suggestion that something was wrong there. The witnesses who would testify about one person’s adultery were dismissed by the overseer as liars and unreliable witnesses, even though it is truly impossible to know when it comes to Africa, who to believe and to what extent. My friends were labeled by the overseer as being misled, as not trustworthy witnesses, as not keeping their words. In the meantime, the conditions of corruption and lawlessness in Africa continued and could be best described as spiritual terrorism, while some individuals who are not CCOG members in Africa label it “evil Evan’s church”.
In the third decade of January 2023, the overseer cautioned me that I should consider my attitude about Africa. I informed him right away that I had been considering my attitude about Africa ever since I visited that area, and I had drawn the line by saying that I did not accept the abusive authority of a carnal man and that I will not submit to it regardless of the fact that the overseer appointed that man as “evangelist”. Therefore, it was hypocritical to remain any longer in service to God’s people under the auspices of CCOG, so that is the reason why I have decided to remove myself from the umbrella of that church organization. I have no doubts that I will be accused of causing division, of not submitting to the higher authority, of being misled, of being lied to, of making a judgment on Africa... I have already heard those and similar charges against my friends. But for the sake of my conscience, I can no longer pretend that everything is fine and great in CCOG when for years I have been upset with the corruption going on in Africa and toleration of things that are not to be tolerated; when I was subjected to a certain extent of persecution within CCOG every time I tried to clarify and promote Church teachings among the members, particularly those who are part of the CCOG electronic forum.
By the direction of the overseer, I was included into the above-mentioned electronic forum which is supposedly a CCOG forum. I say supposedly because one would expect that people would have felt joy that an elder was directed to that forum. And there are not many elders in CCOG anyway. Besides, it is an elder who was the only AC student in CCOG, who has preserved information related to the true doctrines, compiled explanations of the difficult Scriptures, and formed “The Hope of Israel” library with the goal to preserve the true teachings of the Bible. To my shock, various forum members were tossing back-and-forth ideas that are outright heresies. The main leader in spreading heresies was Terry LaFrance who right away launched a campaign against my writings as soon as I joined that forum. When I tried to direct the Forum members to traditional Church teachings, it was met with resistance. The thing that shocked me most was the determination of many of those individuals to keep guns at home, as well as their lack of willingness to change any other wrong teaching that was promulgated on that forum. My warning that such attitudes would not allow some to be accounted worthy to escape to the Place of safety fell on deaf ears. Worst of all, one had to wonder whether it was really a Church of God forum, let alone the forum of the Church that is truer than all the other Churches of God.
I understand the need to have a point of connectedness, but isn’t that point supposed to reflect Bible teachings as opposed to whimsy human devised doctrines? Eventually, I could no longer take part of that forum, where various members constantly maligned and put down my writings, so I had withdrawn. Shortly after I left, one member of that forum commented that I had a passion for the truth, but not love for the brethren. Is love for the brethren is to allow heresies to circulate around, baffle people and make them confused, I truly have no love neither for the brethren nor for the truth.
Some other things are unique experiences for me as an elder and Church member. To the outcry: oh, we are so scattered, what a pity we are not more in touch, I responded that it was our choice and started Skype Sabbath and Holy Day services, so that CCOG members would have some “live” services and opportunity for regular weekly fellowship. To those services I included a man from Northern Ireland who succeeded to offend various people and accused a totally innocent person of a terrible sin. I suspended Skype meetings to give him enough time to repent, and to consider the Scriptures tell us what is better than offending a little one in the faith. Instead of repentance, he created a separate Skype group that gathered those he counted faithful and loyal to Bob Thiel and CCOG. I was obviously counted by that warped mind not faithful enough because I stopped Skype services. I stopped them because of his sin. He used his Skype services to create division among the members. Even though he was warned by the overseer that his approach is not the policy of CCOG, he supposedly agreed to change. He said he would change only because he was told that by the overseer. But nothing changed, of course. He continued with the same practice by ignoring requests from those who wanted to attend when I was unable to hold Skype services. Interesting enough, that person gave himself right to judge who is faithful and who is not, yet he himself has remained a part of the apostate former WCG now Grace Communion International (GCI). So much for his consistency in faithfulness and so much for his qualification to judge those who are faithful and not! And then, he appeared on the Feast video 2022 in which he stated a lie: other than his Skype services, there were Skype services for East Europe. A blatant lie! There have never been Skype services for East Europe, but ones for Serbia and also ones for the rest of the world in English language. But, he disrupted the services in English and created his own Skype channel and dragged away some CCOG members into his fold. So, even my sincere service to CCOG was undermined by this action, and then that person who is “participating in the Work of God” lied to the camera. What a shame!
The above said is not the only unique experience I have had as an elder and CCOG member. There was another remarkable, amazing event that, as far as I know, no elder has ever experienced. At the Feast 2018, I have experienced that an enraged female stormed into my accommodation to basically accuse me and another member in Serbia that we influenced the lad who was once emotionally connected to her, how we turned him against her father and subsequently against her. Those were, of course, sheer lies. The house that person leased was used as a meeting place for the Feast 2018 for all Church members in Serbia, plus her and her father. This female unilaterally announced to the elder that she would close “her house” and no longer accept three Church members: the CCOG elder and two other members! This happened on the night part of the Last Great Day. The enraged female member left the Serbian congregation outside, expect for one Serbian member who supported her for whatever reason. Has any elder anywhere ever experienced anything like this?! The following night those of us kicked out of the Feast site experienced an unbelievable humiliation! The estranged Serbian member named Luka Filipovic and the female guest from Australia brought all the organic food that we who were kicked out purchased for cooking. The lady`s father only ate “only BIO), that is only organic stuff. Among the items dropped uninvited to my room was cooked soup, half gallon of water and several loaves of bread. It was all dumped in the room where I slept and which I shared with another Church member. We used all the funds we had, so we could only rent a room with a big bed that we shared in order to keep the Feast 2018. Meanwhile, as for any Feast, the congregations in Africa received enormous funds for the Feast, just as they do for youth camps, flood damage, roof sheets, cement, etc.
Speaking of that tragic Feast 2018, the Serbian members had experienced even more insults. The father of the lady, a guest from Netherlands told one of the Serbian members that he ate too much. All the members in Serbia were told they ate too much bread. One member from Serbia was treated so poorly that he wanted to go home in the middle of the Feast. Eating loaves of bread is an integral part of the Serbian culture and way of life which, by the way, does not affect anyone personally. But the gentleman who was the guest obviously wanted to insult the members in Serbia and to make them feel less worthy. And what was his example? His marriage crashed because he married unconverted woman from Australia. He lived illegally in his own country. His daughter from Australia supported him, and he was indebted. He would go on fasting by drinking only destilled water months prior to the Feast?! And even though he was well accepted by much younger than him local congregation in Serbia, he for whatever reason was unhappy with the Serbian culture and did not spare opportunities to insult them. More of an example: he would sit at the table and take unique chocolate pieces brought to Serbia for the Feast. Then he would separate certain number of those pieces and take it away for himself so that he might not remain without any of those should Serbian members by a chance eat them all. That was an example to much younger members of an elderly person who at that point had been a Church member for 40 years. As if all of that was not enough, that year both of the guests, a daughter and a father, tried to convince us how it was not good to have three Feasts in the raw in one country (in this case, Serbia) and that we should consider going to other countries. The lady suggested Turkey. The members in Serbia are known to live in economically depressed country, which has various economic and political problems, where they cannot be properly employed due to the corruption as well as disrespect for keeping the Sabbath and Holy Days. That is why two members in Serbia had to share one bed in order to keep the Feast. That is why it is always a struggle for the Serbian members to pay for accommodations at the Feast in their own country, let alone in foreign countries! On top of that, Serbian nationals are usually harassed when they have to enter a foreign country and they are usually presented with visa requests and charges. However, the two guests at the Feast were adamant that the following year we all should go to another country. How could one understand that? Disrespect? Disregard? Or, another drive to divide the Serbian congregation?! Of course, being an elder in Serbia and in Europe, I addressed the Feast attendants and said that I would faithfully stick to Europe and to Serbia, and whoever wanted to go somewhere else is free to do so as far as I am concerned! The guests, however, made some comments about me to a Serbian male member who at that time was emotionally involved with the lady from Australia. I was portrayed to that member as a bad person and a false minister because I refused to go again to Africa. In their mind, I was supposed to go there and do “the work of God”. When that Serbian member asked the lady from Australia why she would not to Africa, the response was, “Honey, it is a dangerous place”. Sure it is a dangerous place. There are various parasites, malaria, bad water etc. But notice duplicity and double standards: that was a dangerous place for her, but obviously not for me. And I was already a victim of African parasites once. In 2017, during the Nairobi conference in Africa, I could have been damaged badly or killed by the parasites I contracted. Thank God, there was Bob Thiel with his natural medicine which rescued me! And so, the electronic forum labeled me a bad person and treated me like a false minister who does not have love for the brethren. At the Feast 2018, I gained more of that reputation by the Feast guests to Serbia, plus some other false accusations. So, by that time I began to wonder if CCOG even needed me as an elder. I was obviously redundant to various CCOG members who loved Africa more than I, who knew traditional Church teachings better than I, who ate bread less than I, etc. Yet, I decided to endure at least some more. But what has finally driven me to the point where I could no longer serve under the auspices of that church organization were the reports and testimonies about the events in Africa. Yes, events in Africa that are full of thousands of “beloved brethren” whose only love for the truth, to other CCOG members and, after all, to Bob Thiel was faked only because of money.
Over the years, I have come to believe that those (supposed) thousands of members in Africa was not really the work of God, but the result of manipulations and using the local financial circumstances to keep various local leaders “in line”. Yet, we heard a claim that CCOG was the largest growing Church of God compared to the other offshoots with roots in the Worldwide Church of God. That conclusion comes from the numerical supposed growth in Africa, while in fact the wider CCOG membership has no clue as to who those members in Africa are. Those in Africa never communicated to anyone, except for some individuals who tried to frame us to send them money. And one of the most shameful of those individuals is a CCOG deacon Ondigo Ochieng, who we caught in lies on several occasions, and then we learned that he is also a deacon in another organization. Speaking of that, during correspondence with the overseer, I learned that Bradox Ochieng was a deacon at another COG when the overseer visited Africa first time. I wonder then how and why was he appointed a deacon in CCOG when he was already in service to others? But, again, when it comes to Africa, nothing is crystal clear and anything seems to be possible, at least as far as the wider CCOG is not informed. African members, both the leaders and lay members alike, never send any feedback to anyone. And, as my friend Randy has always pointed out to me, their hands are always out. In fact, he once experienced that Evans Ochieng wanted him (Randy) to buy him a tractor. So, five vehicles is not enough, tractor is all of sudden needed. As if nobody in the world has no needs for say fuel, now that the conflict in Ukraine affected the whole world, etc. But it seems that nobody in CCOG has no financial need other than Africa to build their churches, etc. A CCOG member with two children in Australia experienced that their bunk bed disintegrated so his children slept on the floor for a while. My heart was broken because I had no money to send him for a new bed. Meanwhile, a little palace in Kenya was built by Ondigo Ochieng with the money he got from other church organizations. Nobody lives there, at that “compound” as he calls it. And while he misled me that he would use it for something, I sacrificed the needs of the former local CCOG organization to send him money to install electricity and dig a well there. I believed he would use that land to plant something with organic seed, but then he informed me that the soil was so bad and he could not plant anything there. That is another lie, but it is a good example how those people in Africa lie others in the West to extract money from them. They often claim to be taking care of the orphans in order to invoke empathy in white people! And those of us with more experience with Africa now have learned never to trust not only their words, but even their photos. In their schemes they hesitate not to send false photos, etc.
For years, I have tried to convince myself that things may not be all that bad as they have been in Africa. I sent some warning to other members to take precaution when contacted by those in Africa. I also cautioned against the flowery Evans` reports from Africa telling CCOG members about a constant surge in the numbers, complaining about a lack of money for church buildings, etc. During my visit to Africa in 2017, to which I was sent as an ordinary member, I have spent enough time with Evans Ochieng, later ordained as evangelist, and with his son Bradox who was his driver around Kenya. So, the “big boss” always had a driver to take him around in one of 5 vehicles, I guess to make an impression. So, I was taken around Kenya to be shown to local churches as a circus attraction, actually as a proof that Bob Thiel had sent his representative (me) as a support for Evans supposed great work in Africa. Over the years I have had an increasing feeling of disgust about that. Not about Bob Thiel, but about the sham that was going on in Africa.
I often wondered what taught in African churches?! I had seen members whose children maltreated animals, deacons throwing rubbish out of car windows, unhygienic latrines, lack of useful animals such as cats (the only exception is the farm of Ezekiel Ombaso, the only CCOG leader there who had a lap top from which he played the hymns, and an excellent translator! I will never forget what I had seen in his congregation: a song leader whose Bible was falling apart! It would never be forgotten, and may we all be like that lady, owners of Bibles that are falling apart!) I had tried to integrate all Africa to Internet presence with other CCOG members, but I miserably failed. While in Africa, I was taken around as a representative of Bob Thiel and as such I was presented by Evans to all local churches we visited. Rain followed me everywhere I travelled as an answered prayer from God (Kenya at that time had suffered three years of drought). But I noticed things that were wrong. In spite of all the poverty, most congregants had smart phones with WhatsApp applications. They never thought of using that application to the glory of God, such as to have services over it or connect with other members elsewhere. I noticed a lap top only in one congregation. Some of the churches had different name, such as Church of God Seventh Day – Jerusalem. I received questions related to the mark of the beast, whether it was the Kenyan social security number. In all the congregations basically, after all those years in CCOG, the only hymn that was sung was “Blessed and happy is the man”. I had no idea how many people were illiterate. I tried to encourage the youth in Ndhiwa, particularly the deacon Bradox, to stand at the door of the meeting hall to greet and welcome members. It is the meeting built on Evans` farm, a beautiful building indeed built according to all European standards! Of course, my suggestion was dismissed. To any of my suggestions the answer was “yes” and “yes, beloved brother”, yet in reality nothing changed because the CCOG members in Africa simply resist any positive changes and do what they want to do. I noticed a lack of trust between members. I got traumatized in Nyakach where I had to stop a child maltreating a kitten. There I also observed how supposed CCOG members chased away a female dog that obviously had puppies! She was so famished that one could only see skin and bones! Supposed converted CCOG members fed their dogs, and when that poor female dog would approach them just to get a crumb of what their dogs were eating, they ruthlessly chased her away. Nyakach is a mountain area whose residents there, supposedly CCOG members, would have literally starved to death was it not for the CCOG interventions which rescued them from certain death. When lunch time came in that place, and all the present were eating food with their hands, I just could not endure it any more. Seeing those ruthless people eat with their hands, I suddenly felt such a disgust that I left the dining room and sat outside looking at Lake Victoria in the distance. I grieved over the fact that I was in a church affiliation with that kind of people. But the worst surprises were on their way.
One Sunday we visited Migori, where Grantone Otieno was a host. Grantone was the only host who recognized me by name and told me he found remembered me from Facebook where he found me some time ago. He is the best looking Kenyan I have seen, and looks like a black version of an Israelite after flesh. The recklessness of Evans Ochieng that was related to me later is just one example of the character of CCOG Africa evangelist. He made Migori congregation come together in 9 AM, without telling them we would be very late. Namely, it was abundantly clear that we could not reach that place that early. The day before we reached another town where we spent the night. The car used four our transportation was taken for a maintainance the next morning. So, it was physically impossible to get to Migori congregation in 9 AM. Evans certainly knew that because he has been travelling around Kenya so many times. The congregated Migori members waited in the rented room for us until noon when we arrived. During my lecture, due to a long period of waiting for our arrival, a small child fell ill and had to be rushed into the hospital. And, to be perfectly honest, when several years later I read the first report of Terry Nelson from Africa how Evans loved those people so much those people, I just laughed and said, You don’t even know how much he loves those people! To me Evans looked more like a crafty politician who keeps people under control by promising cement for their churches, roof sheets, any and any help he can get from the West... I learned from Grantone that his congregation waited that long, and was told by Evans to be in that “facility” at 9 AM. I felt terrible. Something else: on our way to Migori, I was told by Bradox, the driver, that there were two brothers in that town who were causing troubles. Interestingly, I did not ask a single question about that town and its members, so I was kind of surprised to hear about those two brothers. It turned out those were brothers Owac. of them irothers It was one of those who was labeled as a troublemaker, John Owac, who informed about the results of the election in Kenya for that year. He also asked me how could we teach others if we are not setting the right example. It turned out that Bradox Ouma Ochieng, was running for the elections that year. And all the Churches of God in Africa knew that. And all our CCOG membership knew about it, but nobody dared tell me a word about it. And there was I, a representative of Bob Thiel`s who sent me to Africa with a “mission” so that I could report to him on their needs, and I was there kept in darkness about such a matter! All the Churches of God knew that. All the members in Kenya knew that, but that critical information was hidden from me. So, it was immediately clear that there was a reason for such a silence and one could presume there were other things that were not reported to me. What a humiliation! So, from that point on I was sure there were other things happening that I was kept in darkness about, which consequently proved to be true. As far as their needs, Evans most likely expected me to ask for more money to be send. To his surprise, I requested for organic seeds with the intention to resolve the hunger issue in Kenya. That issue was not resolved because the (un)converted CCOG members, as their custom has always been, did what they wanted. Instead of keeping the seed to replant it, as I instructed them, they ate the seed. Thus, Randy’s assessment about those people proved to be true – they have a lack of drive to work with their own hands! Yet, Randy was labeled by the overseer as judgmental on Africa and as thinking he was preaching the Gospel when in fact he was not. In other words, Randy was a Laodicean!? Interestingly, one thing that Evans used to underline during my stay in Africa, that is how noble it is and how noble it should be when people work with their own hands! He kept repeating that as one of the highest virtues of Christian life which I wholeheartedly agree with.
Later, some of those people there ate all the poultry CCOG provided. Stupidity? Lack of gratitude? Insanity? Lack of common sense? I think I heard they concluded that goat keeping would be better in their environment, and that is fine except that they did not inform anyone about it. Just like they never inform anyone about their real needs, their real wants, their real incomes. While the rest of CCOG faithfully tithes, in accordance with God`s law, CCOG members have never been informed of the profession and income of those members in Africa and what their tithes amount to. Never ever in my 7 years in CCOG have I heard a question from Africa: what should we pray about our brethren elsewhere? If I stayed there, I would probably die without ever hearing that an African congregation fasted over something, or that that an Africa-wide fast was called for the sake drought, hunger, deeper commitment to God, the overseer`s protection and inspiration, or over all of that. I pointed out many times that their priorities were upside down and I still believe that. I also believe that all the church buildings that were erected with the tithes of CCOG is something that is going to take a terrible revenge on CCOG organization. Oh, no, it would not surprise me that those churches all join ecumenical Christianity one of these days. So many times I asked some of their deacons there what in the world were they going to do once the money from the West is no longer coming considering the Bible prophecy about the Anglo-Saxon world?! I never received any answer. To one of them I even wrote that unless they change their carnal characters, God may allow hunger or something else to kill them for their poor character qualities which are shame to God`s name. Never ever was there a sign of repentance or sorrow for their ways. I was “a beloved brother” until I showed empathy and I would be contacted by them for as long as they counted on pricking my emotions to send them money (which I didn`t have anyway, yet they think that all of us who are white must have always some money they could milk from us for their gain and their goals). They always approach white people asking them how is the family and how are the brethren in their areas. Then comes plan B, when you ask the same questions of them: outcry for money for orphans, or anything else they come up with and you cannot really check “on the ground” if that is true). One of the most audacious and deceitful attempt was from a pastor in the Rift valley. The Rift valley is a breadbasket of Kenya and an area that was not affected by drought. This one wrote me, as soon as I returned from Serbia that my congregation would help him with food and anything else it could. I was outraged! I told him I had no MY congregation. God has His congregation (then one wonders why I wonder what those CCOG members there are being taught!). I also told him that as far as I knew, his area did not suffer from drought and hunger. Finally, what does it mean to help him with anything else? Of course, I knew it meant money. When I complained to his superior, Evans Ochieng, the response to me was, “He is too young”. Now, can anyone tell me what it means “he is too young”? Too young for what? Too young not to know that liars won`t make it into the Kingdom. Too young, so he is allowed to frame someone? I was disgusted by that answer, but what else could I do but to conclude that such an answer does reflect the same things done by the very top man in Africa. And there have been rumours that CCOG leaders in Africa do request money from other COG groups. That that is not unfounded accusation I have been convinced when my faithful friend Randy Freeze presented me with an evidence – a letter of a CCOG African deacon Ondigo Nimrod Ochieng to the leader of a group, a man who baptized Randy`s parents. I felt so ashamed as a CCOG elder when I read that letter through which a CCOG deacon managed to get some money from a good- willed person who really thought he was helping. Prior to that, a CCOG prospective member from Australia received a message from the same deacon who complained his wife was about to deliver a child and she hadn`t eaten for 3 days – a story he presented to some others as well. So, now, imagine a deacon who waits to see who else from around the world is integrated into CCOG, and then goes on his deceiving mission?! Philadelphian spirit? Gentiles that are getting converted so that the full number would come in? (As if Africa is the only place in the world with Gentiles!). Anyhow, just to mention that the pastor from the Rift Valley did not manage to frame me, he was exonerated for his youth by his superior, while the overseer of the CCOG had nothing to comment. And never ever in any of his writings or words did we find one trace of description about the crimes against God and the CCOG brethren in Africa, while so many non- CCOG members have felt sorry for us and while I as a CCOG elder blushed before God feeling ashamed of the people I have been associated with to preach the Gospel. What is more, most CCOG members in Africa are far better off than most of us elsewhere. Except for those who rent facilities in towns, and they are an overwhelming minority, CCOG African members have their own real estate, their own houses, their own land, their own property. None of us in Serbia has that, and I guess many others may not be that blessed!
Am I too judgmental? Well, I have no idea what am I to do in light of Christ’s instruction that we are to make righteous judgment in John 7:24. Also, at the end of 1 Thessalonians we are all told to check all things and keep that which is good and true. In fact, the apostle John, in his first epistle, commands us to even test the spirits to see whether they are of God! So, what can a Christian do when he or she is faced with these facts and even with more facts as time goes on? But some of my CCOG friends were judged that they made wrong decisions to stop supporting CCOG because of their judgment of Africa! I wonder, what can one decent and faithful Christian do if his or her conscience is defiled by what is going on in Africa? Besides, what an elder is supposed to do when the congregation he serves starts asking him questions about Africa because they begin to feel something is wrong there?! Do I have the right to lie to them that everything fine and May roses are blossoming there?! And to pretend before the people, CCOG members, who struggle against poverty, temptations (all are males who are not married), etc.?
As I have always felt something was wrong in Africa, I suspected a kind of a personal church empire was being built there. Local CCOG members in Serbia started asking me questions in 2022. I could not any more pretend that I had no idea when I was regularly informed about all kinds of un- Christian actions there. Wouldn’t God hold me responsible for lying and pretending about “our growth in Africa”?! So, all I heard from the ground, I conveyed to CCOG members in Serbia per their questions. In Serbia, I received questions like: how come we don’t know any of those people?; what kind of a family are we when we don’t even know who those people are?; are you saying all those thousands are so fervent and will make it to the Place of safety?; are all those people literate?; why don’t they do what they can to improve their lot because almost all of them have their private houses and arable land?!; why aren’t they having cats when they live in a continent rife with vermin and snakes?; what about tithing in Africa?; why is it that we had never heard of a any fasting in Africa, especially as they are constantly hit by various disasters?; what is being preached in Africa?; who is converted in Africa? I gave honest answers to the best of my knowledge.
In 2022, I received an email from Terry Nelson who went to Africa when I refused to go there again. When asked to visit Malawi, I responded to overseer that we don’t have here medicare on the level of U.S.A. and that I feared contracting an illness in Africa that might cripple me. Also, I said that I would most likely get into conflict with the “evangelist”. The overseer told me he wanted to send me to Malawi because “I am not sure that Radson knows what he is doing there”. I understood that because I myself am not sure how many leaders in Africa exactly know what they are doing. But one thing they surely are not doing – they do not anoint the ill. Another thing they are also not doing is fasting. When was is it mentioned in any reports from Africa that the members there fasted, or that ill members were anointed by the “evangelist” or “deacons”?! In all my years of serving in CCOG, I have not seen even once, during my stay in Africa, that anyone was ever anointed for illness. And there are ill people all over the place. Regarding fasting, some CCOG deacons in Africa told me honestly that members don’t fast even fast on the Day of Atonement!! I remember one year when the deacon from Ethiopia reported that it was only him and his wife who fasted. Others in that country did not! Does anyone there feel afraid of being cut off from among their people as we are all warned by God? I instructed the deacon to clearly read out of the Bible and warn those congregants! I am not sure what anyone else has told him what to do. So, the relevant question is: what is the value of growth in numbers if stubborn congregants are not willing to change their wrong ways and keep a Holy Day in the way it is commanded in the Scripture?
Now back to Malawi. I refused to risk my health and safety in Malawi and, probably later be accused of telling Evans how to run things in Africa (actually, trying to rectify whatever abuse and then experience the childish cry to “big daddy” how I am a very, very bad person who bothers the brilliant worker for the Gospel in Africa! And while the overseer still falls for such manipulations, I decided I would not give any space for manipulations there implicating me). However, aforementioned Radson who, according to what the overseer told me, didn’t really know what he was doing seemed to Evans a perfect candidate for a leader, most likely because he could easily be corrupted and kept “in line” with expansion of the personal church empire. Soon after I turned down the request to go to Malawi, I learned that Radson was appointed by Evans as deacon. Not long after that, he was promoted into a pastor. So, before the request to me to visit Malawi he didn`t really know what he was doing. Soon after, he knows what he is doing, and he is even a pastor?! What more to say. Radson certainly knew what to do and how to misuse his new position to have enough money and a car to use for his sweet life and stop caring for his own children.
Ever since Terry Nelson and his son Andre went to Africa, I have received reports through them about more corruption and misuse of money and power. Documents and witnesses were provided from them, so I will just summarize: Bradox Ouma Ochieng took part in the Kenyan elections again in 2002. In spite of the promise to the overseer that he would not do it again, he broke his word. That is not surprising because I have noticed a common characteristic in CCOG in Africa. They would agree to something, usually with flattering words and the line “yes, beloved brother”, but as soon as one turns back and goes away they just do things the way they want to do them, regardless of any promise to a “beloved brother”. On Bradox Facebook profile were posted materials from his campaign for “Orange coalition”, posters and rallies! Yet, he presented a story to CCOG overseer that someone misused his signature to push him into elections. Not only that the overseer believed such a silly story, but he tried to convince some of us about the same. Such a felony would most likely not be tolerated even in Kenya, but even if that was the case, one would expect from deacon Bradox to sue the offender and to prosecute such a terrible breach of the law. He did not protest against alleged abused of signature, but he actively engaged his public Facebook profile into his political campaign. Terry Nelson has established the truth by paying a fee to the Kenyan election board to obtain the documents that show the passport number Bradox used back in 2017 election and elections in 2022 match; his signature on the election list is authentic, as well as the receipt paid for engaging in the election. (One has to wonder which money was used for that purpose, but it is not hard to guess it. However, the overseer does not believe the Church money was used for it!) There was a controversy this between the overseer and Terry Nelson who claimed that Evans was also involved in this political campaign because an elderly member from the area sent a message to the overseer justifying Evans and assuring him that Evans did not take any part in the 2022 elections. Now, it is interesting that the overseer would take an ordinary letter from an ordinary person with no proofs whatsoever as something relevant (considering that many people in Africa have no problem to lie), while he dismissed the official documents that have been presented to him from Terry Nelson. Also, those of us who have been to Kenya well know that Evans is very close to his son Bradox and the two work closely with each other. In fact, Bradox usually drives Evans around in one of 5 vehicles that are at Evans` farm. Thus, it is very unlikely that Evans was unaware of his son`s involvement in the elections. However, the story that the two presented to the overseer was that Evans had no idea what his son was doing, and consequently he removed his son from the position of deacon. Yet, CCOG membership had not been informed about that. Just as everything going on in Africa is enveloped in obscurity and secrecy, so was this supposed removal of Bradox Ochieng as a decon. We had never known what had been going on in Africa because the overseer appointed one person there through whom everything in Africa went, especially the financial matters. That one person was Evans Ochieng, a man who enjoyed limitless trust by the overseer, whose word was above the word of any of us, above any of witnesses from Africa, even above the official documents. CCOG members have had no clue about anyone in Africa because there has never been any feedback, other than inflated numbers, flowery reports and constant requests for more and more money. According to Terry`s estimation, one fourth of the money sent to Evans ended up in the pockets of the poor members, and the rest ends up in private pockets of certain leaders. Financial requests are especially inflated for the Feast and to alleviate problems caused by natural disasters. CCOG constantly provides money and material for them to build churches there. Church buildings are built usually on the properties of unconverted members and belong to those individuals. There have been no accounts of how money was being spent, which the overseer justified that we didn`t want to show distrust to those in Africa. And while many in COG circles find it horrifying that so much money is sent to Africa by CCOG, some of us former CCOG members were offended not by the help CCOG sent, but by the treatment we received from Africa, by the evidence on how God`s money was spent, and by the justifications that the CCOG overseer had about all that. Particularly here in Europe, CCOG had prospective members in need for a visit and encouragement, but it was never considered by the overseer. Also, while in Australia, I felt so ashamed to hear an unconverted spouse of one of CCOG prospective members commented how come that “Bob Thiel sends people around the world without money”. She also made comments to others how she has spent considerable funds to feed me. In the meantime, Africa was getting funds to build churches and for their youth camps (nobody knows what they teach the youth there), and Evans announced to his congregation that he had a vision that God would give him a nice new car. Yes, the nice new car arrived because he knew it was going to arrive from Bob Thiel.
A former CCOG member has calculated that about 2 million dollars has been sent to Africa in the last 10 years of Evans` affiliation with CCOG. As if there is no other need anywhere else in the world. Lest anyone get a wrong idea, it is not about the money, and help. I am sure all of God`s people are willing to aid poor, but what hurts is to see that God`s money is being squandered in Africa on adultery, hiring witch doctors and building churches with which they could trade by putting whatever name on those. Besides, my quest about where did used lap tops go was answered by Terry Nelson who informed me that those valuable things were given as gifts to the officials and leaders of various political parties. Could that be labeled a bribe?
By the way, in spite of the assurance from the overseer that Bradox was removed, he was caught in a video recording preaching to CCOG. Oh, well, that is yet another experience some of us have had with Africa. Nothing is clear and various options are possible, and nothing may be as it appears at the first glance.
Bribe is a common thing. Local church leaders are kept bribed by the amounts they get paid by Evans, and that amount is very decent for African conditions. Other members are bribed by motorbykes to keep quiet about irregularities they have witnessed. Even the village chief can be bribed to lie, such as to accuse a wife of being guilty for her husband who squandered money on his adulterous relations and neglecting the needs of his own children, so that was the ground for her to divorce him. The overseer has concluded, however, that Terry Nelson was misled about all his findings in Africa and that he relied on unreliable witness. He even went so far to send Evans to Malawi unannounced so that Evans would deal with claims against the pastor he appointed there, Radson Mulozowa. The result of that “secret mission” was that Evans, in Diotrephes` fashion, kicked two Malawian deacons witnesses out of the Church and reported to the overseer that now those very, very bad people had been removed. Evans omitted to report to the overseer that during his stay in Malawi he received a phone from the minister of gender and social welfare who asked him for his inactivity related to some things in Malawi. I happened to know about that phone call and informed the overseer who responded to me that he heard there was an “investigator”, but he had not yet received any reports from that one. He learned about that lady from his correspondence with Andre, and I knew that anyway. The “investigator”, as the overseer called her (with all the quotation marks), happened to be the Malawian official minister. But since she is not Evans Ochieng, she was called by the overseer “investigator”, while some time prior to that the overseer cautioned all CCOG members to respect Romans 13 writing that in context of U.S. elections for Senate. So, when U.S. elections are concerned, CCOG was seriously warned to respect Romans 13, but when it comes to Radson, Malawi and Evans, a government official is called “investigator”.
Sadly, the inconsistencies in CCOG pop up from time to time. Of course, they are usually there to protect the “sacred Africa” from investigation and relevant questions. However, I have seen it these days when it comes to Serbia. The day I announced to the overseer I was no longer going to be in service to CCOG, I also told him that the members in Serbia also gave up on affiliation with CCOG. The overseer told me that my name would not be mentioned in the next Letter to the Brethren (which is due tomorrow), but that it would be announced that the congregation in Serbia has decided to take a different direction (whatever that means). However, well before the announcement in the Letter to the Brethren, I received emails from some CCOG members telling me they understood from Bob Thiel that I am no longer a part of CCOG, but that I should rest assured I am in their prayers said one message, while the other told me he is not judging me and urged me not to be a stranger. Those CCOG know who they are and I am grateful to them and I am mentioning this in order to avoid possible accusations that I am lying. That was another accusation from the (in)famous CCOG electronic forum against me, that I must have lied in one of my messages. Edith Andrade was asked by someone if she thought that I was lying in my message?! She had felt bad for months after that. The person who asked that question never had courage to ask me personally and directly about supposed lying. Philadelphian love? Let brotherly love continue...
I was very clear from the start that the congregation in Serbia was not staying in CCOG. The congregation in Serbia had been frustrated with all kinds of things. One thing was the speakers in English. The other thing was the Feast video portraying 8,000 members in Africa and lies about non-existent Skype services for East Europe. Not to mention CCOG in Africa and its deep corruption. The congregation in Serbia has gone to a great length locally to warn the nation about local witches and to urge the population to stop consulting with them! Yet, now, all of a sudden we are faced with the horror: we are associated with supposed Christians in Africa who consult witch doctors. And the leaders do it. Meanwhile, the main leader of the CCOG tries to convince the elder in Serbia that those and other allegations are not true!? In spite of all the official documents and despite various witnesses who had courage to come forward. And all this after years of total mystery related to Africa. After years of reading dubious reports from Africa which feed CCOG membership with lies. The Serbian congregation felt sorry for decent and dear individuals who made a normal (and Philadelphian) efforts to get to know us, but it simply felt it had to leave behind and separate as soon as possible from corrupted, witch infested, adulterous, carnal, evil, greedy CCOG leadership in Africa. We also had no choice but to leave all the others who do not want to face the truth about Africa to believe all the lies coming from Africa, among which is the lie about the number of believers on that continent (on which rests the claim that CCOG is the fastest growing COG!) CCOG leadership has created a setting in which it does not matter that there is no contact between any of those African “members” with other CCOG members, that it does not matter that CCOG at large has no idea about the background of those members, that CCOG has no clue who is literate there, that nobody in CCOG knows what are those people being taught by the leadership that is corrupted and carnal, and most likely many of them are not even converted)... All that does no matter, and it does not matter that the “open door to Africa” is a big sham, nor is it important that God`s money is being squandered and that the loyalty of CCOG tithe paying members is grossly abused... Oh, no, it does not matter. And who are CCOG members to ask even about that, they should follow along and pay, pray and obey. In the meantime, since there is no real control in Africa, those members there do not pay, God knows what the pray for if they even pray, and speaking of obedience to God is even ludicrous when many, if not most of them, do not fast even on the Day of Atonement! How could people, who are cut off from among God`s people for disobedience can even be counted as God`s people? Well, forget about those life important questions. Let the CCOG membership at large believe they are the fastest growing COG, in fact a Philadelphian remnant, and that their organization is confirmed by dreams. Thanks for the dreams, but I would much rather be convinced by the fruits of the Spirit and by the fact that true Christians serve God in Spirit and the truth. Some of those dreams I heard about in Africa, I conveyed them to the overseer. But since there is nothing I could really trust in Africa, I now regret it for conveying them. I should have rather left those who dreamed to convey them, so if they made it up the responsibility for that would rest on them. For part of the African manipulations is to tell you what you would like to hear, or what they think I would like to hear with inevitable “beloved brother”. When I was in Kenya, the evangelist there tried to impress me with the numbers, but that never impressed me. My main concern was the level of understanding of the ordinary membership. For years I had been pleading that the level of their understanding be checked and established so that the CCOG could serve them better with the knowledge they needed. My pleas were ignored. It was more important to show to others that we are – mind you – the fastest growing Church of God with roots in WCG and that we have so many Gentiles to fulfill the book of Romans and that all of our tithes basically go to Africa, or better said to one person in Africa who can then create his own church empire.
Every cry from Africa about need for church buildings was responded to promptly. Meanwhile, the congregation in Serbia had held its services in a rented accommodation. It was rented for staying and living, not for services. So, in the past seven years the congregation of Serbia has risked its own safety and risked being kicked out of rented premises. The congregation in Serbia risked gaining reputation of being a dangerous cult (as usually are dubbed all the faiths in this country that are not the official Serbian Orthodox religion). Having such reputation would mean that no one in this town and elsewhere would rent anything to us. Meanwhile, people who own their houses, their lands, their gardens and trees, who live in the country with eternal spring (Kenya) kept relentlessly building their churches! Why we here in Serbia have put our heads on the line, risked our own peace of mind and safety (even more because we are not registered religious organization), we kept hearing and reading about churches being built in Kenya and elsewhere in Africa. There is one member who has his own real estate, but it is inapt for services for there is no toilet in his real estate, nor is there electricity and water. And when I requested just 100 dollars back in 2018, so we would dig a well there and at least provide potable water, I was flatly refused. We in Serbia always tried not to be a burden to CCOG, not to ask for indeed much needed funds to operate daily. And we remain thankful to those other individuals who helped us in the last seven years while we have been in CCOG service. In the meantime we have learned that CCOG in Malawi is not even registered and CCOG is not even aware of that. So, the money sent for registration ended up in someone`s private pocket and CCOG has been operating illegally in that African country. And when and if all the books will be open, who knows what other truth is going to stare at the face of all the current and former CCOG members. What a sadness?! The fastest growing Church of God, having kicked out the two deacons in Malawi has lost so many members who were served by those deacons. The only organized congregation in Europe, which risked its own security to preach the Gospel from the premises not rented for that purpose, is no longer there. But spells, witchcraft, adultery coming from Africa are still there. The corrupted leader and his minions thought it would go on until Christ`s return (if they even care for that). Some of us tried to tell the overseer it was going on. All of our efforts were dismissed. For years I had been trying to make hints about happenings in Africa, but to no avail. I would say to him, for example, So, the black magic discovered in Mozambique, but as if I didn`t say anything. Terry Nelson was the one who discovered it. Or, I would say, Well, finally in the reports for the Feast there will be another continent to dominate, and it is not Africa. I alluded to Australia and those who had been waiting for baptism for years there. I was the one who kept pushing for Australia and the spiritual needs of potential members there. Oh, well, Australia was not the dominant continent in the Feast report for nothing and nobody in CCOG can beat Africa and numerous reports of local deacons, pastors, plus the evangelist. Africa, Africa, Africa... meanwhile in Europe, in one country, there is a young man who had been falling into depression and suicidal modes due to various factors, but I have been unable to visit him. And I can list various other things, but it no longer matters.
What if, without our knowledge, Bradox Ouma Ochieng gained victory in the elections, and CCOG became implicated and involved in the corrupted Kenyan politics? One only needs to see the political figure Bradox supported... that is the figure which false Bradox supported as the overseer wanted us to believe! All Kenyan CCOG leaders and members know about Ochieng family involvement into politics, yet many are afraid to speak about it because they fear for their lives. And CCOG has always been taught that Christians (true Christians) should be willing to speak the truth even when it is not popular, even when it could cost us our lives. Many Kenyan CCOG members have not passed that test. What would they do when the Beast comes into power? But even before the full Beast power, there remains a sad state of affairs in Africa and it is constantly supported with the tithe money of faithful tithe payers. Is that a Philadelphian spirit? The fastest growing COG?! The Philadelphian organization (I am quoting what the overseer wrote to me in our last correspondence)?! Was that the dream of an organization confirmed by dreams? I could not live any more with all that and continue to preach on behalf of CCOG. My traumas from CCOG are deep enough that I don`t consider returning to it. The distrust that the overseer has shown both to me and my friends who have spreading of the Gospel as their life mission, has convinced me that I could never again submit to his leadership. In my last email to him at the end of January 2023, I clearly wrote that I do not accept the authority of Evans Ochieng, and that the only link I have with those people in Africa was the fact that I was associated with them in the same church organization.
Being associated with those who behind our backs hire witch doctors and sacrifice their blood to achieve their carnal goals began to bother me as soon as I had learned of the high positioned CCOG person in Malawi doing it. If he was doing it, what were others doing behind our backs? That is why I wonder what are CCOG members in Africa being taught by such corrupted leaders who set such terrible examples?! And the related question is: what is that those thousands of “members” in Africa understand when it comes to Bible teachings? Those and other questions I had been trying to raise about African membership during my 7 years service. I never got any answer. I was even accused by “evangelist Evans” of telling him how to run things in Africa when I posed a question related to the distribution of lap tops in Kenya. Now, can anyone tell me what was I supposed to do as an elder when a couple of deacons (Grantone and Ondigo) asked me to do something because their lap tops were broken down and they needed new used lap tops in order to translate CCOG literature to their languages? What would any CCOG member do after receiving such a request! I intervened as Christian with a good will, but I was immediately attacked by the “evangelist” who complained to Bob Thiel how I am telling him how to run things in Africa?!!! What an insanity! And, that is the person in charge of CCOG in Africa! And lest anyone misunderstands, no, nobody is envious of Evans Ochieng`s achievements in Africa! Those achievements are indeed impressive! A perfect corrupt system in place in which members are afraid to speak and in which the leaders are dependent on him and are in service to him (not to Christ!). A fantastic system in which he mesmerizes the gullible with numbers and supposed 10.000 CCOG members in Africa! A great system in which anything he says or writes in trusted by the overseer. A marvelous system which has secured him, according to a former CCOG member`s estimation, about 2 million dollars he used to build his churches, his son used trying to secure a job for the government with a incredible salary for African standards, etc. No, nobody is envious of Evans Ochieng. I am disgusted over that kind of Christian, I do not accept his authority and I could no longer be a hypocrite to stay within the same hierarchy with him, nor to be a part of the church organization that finances his evil church empire. That kind of “Christianity” in CCOG Africa resembles 3 John (Diotrephes) and the Nimrodian system in the ancient Babylon. Joining CCOG seven years ago little did I know that I would witness Nimrodians of Africa misusing the loyalty and funds of true Christians around the world.
But CCOG in Africa is one of the problems. When I tried to protect the electronic forum from heresies presented there, I was told I had a passion for the truth, but not love for the brethren. Meanwhile the late Terry LaFrance kept undermining CCOG teachings on the forum, I was forced to listen all kinds of complaints and accusations against me and my attempts to correct heretical teachings. I was the only person who publically stood against Yee Fang when he claimed on that forum that we should consider esoteric sources! Everyone else kept quiet. So, one has to wonder what in the world is wrong with those CCOG members who resist change of their wrong ideas, their characters, etc. The words of Herbert Armstrong: BRETHREN, THE MOMENT YOU STOP CHANGING, THAT MOMENT YOU ARE NO LONGER PART OF THE CHURCH OF GOD.
And to finish all this agony. After my correspondence over the Skype with the overseer, when I said to him that other local members in Serbia have also decided to leave, he contacted a local member to check whether that was true. Interestingly, he would not check the claims of “beloved brother” Evans, or have a doubt about any of his statements, but obviously he didn`t trust me after 7 years of my faithful service in CCOG. He explained to that local member that it was as if I myself was not sure about leaving. Well, I was well sure about leaving, but I was very careful not to reveal to him anything that was no longer his business. In my spiritual journey, I have endured all kinds of injustices from false brethren, and those whose conversion only God knows. Those individuals marginalized me and pushed me out and maligned me. This time, I have decided it was not going to be so. I was not going to be dumped on the street as if I have fallen away from the truth. That was how one former church affiliation made it look! I am convinced the words of Jesus Christ to go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel is still my task, and I certainly have not given up on the task for what I was called by God in the first place – spreading the Good News! To all those who have experienced the spiritual terrorism from Evans Ochieng and anyone else, I will try to be a spiritual refugee camp. And to the House of Israel I will continue to testify: Remember who you are!
I cannot be in association with supposed Christians who behind my back practice witchcraft, have adulterous activities, milk money God blessed His people with, build their churches in Protestant manner, have lack of knowledge of basic Church teachings (gun ownership), have political campaigns and who resist positive changes in their lives. When I joined CCOG out of sincere intentions, I was not aware that I would encounter all those things. It has been 7 years of keeping silent and enduring any imperfections, but when I learned about the witchcraft being practiced by some in Africa, I could no longer take it.
Aleksandar Sasha Veljic
29 comments:
Tl, DR. But, good that it is posted, and I catch the drift. It seems obvious that Bob's faith that this sort of thing just can't happen in his CCOG is founded on quicksand.
Could it be a test because God wants to see if Bob acts decisively for the protection of the church? Sasha seems to have picked up on that and you couldn't really act more decisively than he has. Now, everyone is watching!
He places a lot of stock in his Ambassador College experience as setting him apart from other people. And he can write a wall of text to match Bob. At least he seems to have a sincere conscience.
Wow - She should have resigned sooner. No church transparency as usual, no accountability of finances, flattery to manipulate & control, empty promises, leadership building their castles, cruelty to people & animals. *** Good leadership qualities start at the top of the organization and set the atmosphere of those underneath. This is a crime scene not a church. Don't give this church your money.
Give your money to proven charities with a strong track record of years of accountability already working in the region. Do your research ahead of time.
Eh, it has been well known, for a long long time, that the folks in Africa will say anything to anyone if it results in financial support.
This letter broke my heart for several reasons. First and foremost, that people actually believe what Bob teaches is biblical Christianity. Secondly, the conscience of this man is clearly more in tune with God than Bob has ever been. Third, that he was willing to voice his concerns, knowing full well that he would have to leave, or be asked to leave. Can any of us imagine Bob having his conscience pricked to do anything other than what is best for Bob? No, of course not. And finally, reading about the treatment of the animals (especially the doggies) brought me to tears.
Bob now has a WHOLE LOT MORE to answer for to God. You add all of this corruption, Satanism, witchcraft and maltreatment of members on top of the fake prophet, man of god b.s. and Bob is in soooo far over his head, it makes my head spin! His judgment is going to be as long as one of his stupid articles! If only he would become a Christian, he would never be judged in the first place, but nooo, Bob is a Philadelphians (more b.s.) and knows more than everyone else on planet earth.
Have fun in eternity Bob. Once again, don't say you weren't warned. Couldn't have happened to a more deserving, obnoxious, little, fake man.
I forgot to mention one thing. To Anon @ 4:57, your comment that Bob's "church" is a crime scene, not a church was brilliant!! Absolutely brilliant and perfectly true!!
To: Mr. Robert Thiel CCOG Overseer
This is to inform you that both myself and my group in Truth or Consequences , New Mexico and my fellow Comanche brethren are no longer members of your organization.
We have discovered that you are not a PHILADELPHIAN, and that in fact, you live in California, some 3000 miles away from Pennsylvania. I too, can no longer pretend that everything is fine and great in CCOG when for years I have been upset with the corruption going on in Africa and toleration of things that are not to be tolerated
Please remove me from your email list, and do not expect any contributions in the future.
Tonto
Sasha was always genuine and pleasant when I knew him. Getting involved in the COGs is not good in the long-run for someone's Christianity though. I'm thankful to have seen the falseness of the COGs and to now know the greater joy in Christ.
Could it be a test because God wants to see if Bob acts decisively for the protection of the church?
How much crap would God need or allow just so he can test Bob? He already knows Bob is stubborn. He doesn't need to wreck anybody else to find out Bob is not a good leader. He didn't put Bob in charge of anything in the first place.
Well, my interest in all things CCOG has always been marginal. I'm a skimmer. Who has the time? But it seems like Gary was on track and deserves credit for tracking all this information down.
To Anon @ 9:32. Praise the Lord! An answer to many prayers that at least one would see the false doctrines of the COGs and leave. Even more miraculous that you found Jesus! You made my week! Thank you and God bless you!
He starts off by condemning the stay-at-home "independents," and then describes the horror show in his church. How dare independents avoid toxic churches and their emotionally abusive ministers and members. How in the world can "evangelists" play church if people defend themselves by staying home?
It is interesting how common it is to hear the word "God's test" whenever there is exposure of corruption, words falling all over the ground of a false prophet..We should look up how many times that word has been used just since January. It has been going on for years, but it would be funny.
Exactly, 12:22. This is what I detested about Armstrongism! They made themselves into a whole additional unnecessary layer of law enforcement in members' lives. You don't build character by doing things that some tin horn minister arbitrarily tells you to do. Character is when you consistently and voluntarily decide to do the right thing. These guys with their authoritarian approach do get their way with the members, but they end up quenching and grieving the Holy Spirit. It's not as if they actually understood the Holy Spirit in the first place, but that's a whole other discussion. The durn fools can't understand that they are usurping the responsibilities of the Holy Spirit if they change His pronouns to "it" and then appoint themselves to doing His job!
I like the comments. This group gets it. You are a powerful army the Lord is raising up. No false prophet is knocking you off to the sidelines anymore. You are exposing them and their tactics to anyone who will listen.
You can see them coming, recognize their words unique to that group, and the patterns. No false prophet will keep you from having a real relationship with God, Jesus, & Holy Spirit. Go real church!!!
4:39 comment
Well that has to be the best AI generated comment yet. Totally stupid yet slightly related to blog topics.
Not off topic & not AI.
That is a first, that anyone, giving a compliment would have offended someone. That speaks volumes.
Remember the 3 D's the enemy uses:
1) Deception
2) Division
3) Distraction
The reason this is a very relevant blog, with interesting topics & drawing lots of comments, is because the average person is exasperated over the leadership. It is extremely embarrassing. They make God look unstable in all His ways presenting the opposite of His true character.
Give your money to proven charities with a strong track record of years of accountability already working in the region. Do your research ahead of time.
Give your money to your kids or grand kids. Isn't that what the bible say to do?
To 7:42 - I am an older adult & spent a lot of money on my children when they were growing up signing them up for swimming lessons, music (voice, orchestra, band, took them to plays), museums, church every week, sports, went camping & took fun vacations.
I contributed to their college educations. I have also supported a child through Compassion International in Guatamala for years.Through all of this, I paid tithes & offerings as well as putting money toward fighting abortion in the USA, digging wells in 3rd world countries through proven organizations with strong accountability, & hurricane relief. Yes, of course, the goal is to leave a sizeable inheritance to all 4 of my children so that they too can make the world a better place in their area of influence --for their own children, people in their communities, & outside of their communities.
That is commendable, 5:45. I personally believe that you are doing the correct and balanced thing. I don't know if all of the splinters have the same policies and teachings as founded by HWA, but if you did these things back during HWA's era, and if it were known, your heart would be said not to have been "in the work". These moneys you spent on your children and other charities were taught as "belonging to God" just as much as your tithes and regular offerings. It was not as extreme back then as it is with Dave Pack's "common", or with Gerald Flurry's demands, but giving to "this world's" charities was discouraged or forbidden, and while it was OK for parents to pay for an Ambassador education for their children, students were encouraged to pay their own way through employment on campus. Herbie wanted it all, as anyone who ever read his desperate member and coworker letters knows all too well. He was a master guilt-tripper, relentless in getting all of our money. You must have had a very special conscience to be able to resist his very demanding and desperate tones.
Some people couldn't afford to leave an inheritance for their children because they gave so much to the work. Taxes are said to soak up 50%, and tithes (first and second) 20%, and then there is rent, food, transportation, etc. Not much if anything is left for the next generation to inherit, which wasn't considered a problem if you expected to go to Petra in the 70s, 80s or 90s. And if you lived the "right way" getting or keeping a job to pay for it all was ten times as hard.
Just because people say, "This is God's work" or talk about "the vision" doesn't mean it is or that you have given them money. God gave us critical thinking skills. In the Bible He asks thoughtful questions even though He already knows the answer.
God is so kind. He doesn't threaten us with loss of salvation, intimidate, accuse. God wants an individual relationship with each person and lovingly pursues.
God wants us to have lots of money to bless our families, our church, and to fill financial gaps in the community and poor countries...God doesn't want us poor. Jesus came so, "We can have Life Abundantly." I refuse to give money to church leaders who steal God's money building their own personal castles, who refuse transparency, who refuse financial accountability, who threaten, coerce, and try to make feel guilty, or embarrass people. They also take from what should be going to children. They do not represent God. If they ask for money politely, are never demanding & threatening and volunteer their real financial statements, I might consider donating to it.
My children belong to God so pouring money into them to socialize them, signing them up for different activities to find out what their interests are and then focusing on developing their God given-talents, educating them, making sure they spend quality time with grandparents, giving them as many opportunities as possible to make friends --is obeying God.. We must have strong families and be strong contributing members of society.
We are supposed to be at the top of the 7 mountains of influence in society not hiding, nor have a victim mentality.
Through Jesus we are overcomers. We are light. We are salt. I proudly vote in Presidential elections and research the candidates of the different elections because I love my family caring about the community, my state, and the country my children grow up in.
Just by being born in the USA puts the average person in the top 2% income bracket in the world. The poorest people have a cell phone, shoes, clothing, microwave, and access to food, compared to other people in the world.
Therefore, we have an obligation to help others, especially children in other countries. We are to treat others as we want to be treated. That sums up the law & 10 commandments. Don't you know that everytime there is a hurricane, devastation, lack of medical care in a region, overnight destruction of homes & lives is a major opportunity to meet basic needs in Jesus' Name? Jesus said to mention His Name when showing kindness.
It is the most basic of planting spiritual seeds, watering, fertilizing for harvest. Don't participate in churches that steal your lives and finances so you can't participate and miss out on opportunities to be impactful.
Alexander, don't give up! There are many of US offended by our own Church leaders and are just bidding our time. Trying to grow up spiritually, even in loneliness.
The CCOG and Bob Thiel are clearly desperate for members, money, and popularity. Sasha and those in Serbia did the right thing to leave that organsation.
I watched only 1 sermon by Thiel and realised that he was not a person to associate with, mostly because he kept trying to sell his books during a sermon! Worldly or what?
Most organised churches are now out of date and will not follow Christ as they are stuck in the "HWA said it so it must be true" mode or they just idolise HWA.
Are we sure that tithing as taught by many is currently in force? No apostle paid tithes. Look at them supporting themselves and requesting donations. Voluntary donations are not tithes. This document by Ernest L Martin is brilliant in my opinion:
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZTn5tVZDpkR9UkjrCRyuGngShp1oR2YceAk
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