The Church of God Clown Show is in full swing again today, with our resident Crackpot Prophet tooting his itty-bitty horn about how magnificent he is and how he’s revealed truths hidden even from Herbert W. Armstrong. How quickly he forgets: if Herbert were alive today, Crackpot Bob’s ass would’ve been booted out the church door so fast he wouldn’t know what hit him. Even Rod Meredith already kicked him to the curb once for his narcissistic presumptions. Real prophets learn their lesson. Fake, self-appointed ones just keep digging the hole deeper—with no way out.
"Malachi 3 continues: “and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? And who shall stand when he appeareth? For he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap” (verses 1-2). …
Herbert W. Armstrong expounded on this prophecy in a landmark sermon on Dec. 17, 1983. “As John the Baptist was the physical messenger in the physical wilderness of Jordan, so there would be a messenger with a message—with a voice crying out in the spiritual wilderness of the modern 20th century,” he said. “Preparing the way for … Jesus to come to His spiritual temple [speaking of the Church] … this time to set up the Kingdom of God and to rule.”
Christ said this Elijah would “restore all things.” Mr. Armstrong then noted, “Now John the Baptist didn’t restore anything. They already knew about the law, and he called them to repentance; but he didn’t have to give them sermons about what all the law is. They knew that. He just called them to repent and turn to another way, and baptized them.”
The “restore all things” part of Christ’s statement is at the heart of what makes this the most pivotal end-time prophecy.
There are many end-time prophecies, and people naturally tend to focus on the ones about wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and supernatural disasters. Some people focus on things like blood moons.
But this prophecy is what Jesus Christ focused on.
This prophecy is directly connected with His Second Coming: He said this man would restore all truth within the Church just before the Day of the Lord. This is a sign of the nearness of Jesus Christ’s return that you must not ignore!
And what makes this even more important is that this prophecy has already been fulfilled!"
But according to the Bible (and basic math), Herbert couldn’t possibly have been the end-time Elijah. He died in 1986, the “very end of the Church age” hasn’t arrived yet, and the 6,000 years from Adam aren’t up. Crackpot Bob helpfully points this out while dragging in Dibar Apartian and Aaron Dean like yesterday’s toilet paper—about as useful as either would be plugging a hole in a dam.ording torackpot Bob, Herbert cannot be the endtime Elijah:
But, according to the Bible, could Herbert W. Armstrong have been the Elijah to come (Matthew 17)?
Let’s start with Malachi 4:5-6, but as shown in the Jewish Publication Society translation:
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming Of the great and terrible day of the LORD.And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children,And the heart of the children to their fathers;Lest I come and smite the land with utter destruction.Notice that the Elijah is to come just before the great and terrible day of the LORD, and if he did not come, utter destruction would occur.
Herbert W. Armstrong died in January 16, 1986.
Now let’s see what Herbert W. Armstrong actually wrote about the timing of the final Elijah:
Also Malachi 4:5-6 pictures the Elijah to come at the very end of the Church age (Mystery of the Ages. 1985, p. 349).
When did Herbert W. Armstrong write that the Church age was over? Notice:
At the end of the Church age and 6,000 years from Adam, Christ would return to earth as King of kings and Lord of Lords, ruling all nations, with the saints, for one millennium. (Armstrong HW. What If Adam Had Taken of the Tree of Life? Plan Truth, March 1983)
The “very end” of the Church age was not over 37 years ago! The 6000 years have NOT yet been fulfilled. Since the “very end of the Church age” has not happened, and Herbert W. Armstrong died decades ago, his writings support that there must be another Elijah. And he was referring to an individual in the Mystery of the Ages.
So who in the entire world could the entime Elijah be???? It is impossible to understand who this is. Oh, wait! Its none other than Crackpot Bob, teh Great Bwana! Woo Hoo!
But wait! Before he offers the proof that he is the choden one, he drags of Dibar Apartian and Aaron Dean. Apartian's words are about a suseless as a roll of toilet paper being used to plug a hole in a dam.
That being said, sometimes Herbert W. Armstrong did think that he may have fulfilled the Elijah role, but he told the late Dibar Apartian (who told me) that he was NOT the Elijah. Dibar Apartian did not believe that Herbert W. Armstrongwas the Elijah when we discussed this several times and he agreed with me about this. Furthermore, essentially on his deathbed, Herbert W. Armstrong admitted to his closest aide, Aaron Dean (who told me this multiple times) that there could be an Elijah to come after he died (see also The Elijah Heresies).
Combining what Herbert W. Armstrong wrote in The Mystery of the Ages and the length of time since his death demonstrates that Herbert W. Armstrong could not have been the final prophesied Elijah.
Crackpot Bob, The Great Bwana, then starts offering the PROOF that we should all be standing in awe of and trembling in fear that we are lost and without hope because we deny him.
Then comes the grand reveal: since Jesus is obviously returning in the next decade (trust him, he’s checked), the real Elijah must be alive right now. And wouldn’t you know it, he just happens to be part of the one organization that places the “highest priority on truth”—the Continuing Church of God. What an amazing coincidence!Since the Bible does teach that there will be an ‘Elijah’ who is alive right before Jesus returns (Malachi 4:5-6), thus it is not possible that Herbert W. Armstrong was the prophesied final Elijah.
Now, presuming Jesus will return within the next couple of decades, then that ‘Elijah’ would need to be alive now. And he would be part of the church that places the highest priority on the truth.
Yet, most Christians seemingly refuse to accept that.
We in the Continuing Church of God are regularly restoring more truth about church history...
There is a 21st century Elijah, and that individual would be expected to be part of the Continuing Church of God.
Was the restoration of more knowledge supposed to happen?
Yes.
Crackpot Bob, the Great Bwana, argues that because Herbert Armstrong openly said he was NOT a prophet, he couldn’t have been Elijah (who was a prophet). Therefore, the job is still open… and guess who’s humbly volunteering? The same guy who’s already preached an entire sermon alluding to the fact that he might be one of the Two Witless Witnesses, too. (If only he talked about Jesus half as much as he talks about himself.)Herbert Armstrong later wrote that he was NOT a prophet:
I have definitely NOT been called to be a PROPHET (Armstrong H. Personal from the Editor, The 19 Year Time Cycles. The Good News of Tomorrow’s World. February, 1972, p. 1).
Since Herbert Armstrong was not a prophet, Elijah was a prophet (1 Kings 18:36), the Elijah to come is to be a prophet (Malachi 4:5), and the two witnesses will be prophets, Herbert W. Armstrong was not the Elijah to come
Was John the Baptist the prophesied Elijah or at least a type of Elijah? Is there an Elijah to come? Have Sabbatarians been teaching this a long time? What were 18 truths that Herbert W. Armstrong said God had him restore? Was anything to be restored in the last days, consistent with Daniel 12:4 and Matthew 17:11? Was God supposed to restore dreams and prophets in the last days? Did the Worldwide Church of God teach such would happen again? Have we seen signs of Acts 2:17-18 in the Continuing Church of God? Is Bob Thiel the final Elijah or one of the two witnesses? Why or why not? Has there been the restoration of important truths in the CCOG? Is the CCOG at least setting the foundation for the 21st century Elijah? Dr. Thiel gives information relating to all of that in this sermon.
He finishes by broadly flicking his limp wrist at anyone who dares disagree, labeling them Laodiceans—because nothing says “man of God” like rebranding everyone who won’t worship you as doomed.
Crackpot Bob, the Great Bwana, then goes on to preach another sermon on how magnificent he is. If only he talked about Jesus as much as he talks about himself!
Jesus stated that an Elijah to come would restore all things (Mathew 17:11). Did Herbert W. Armstrong restore anything? Consistent with Daniel 12:4, were there truths that were to be restored in the 21st century? What are some that have been restored? What about church history, the original catholic church, the faith once for all delivered to the saints, and apostolic succession? What were the last days signs of Acts 2:17-18? What about teachings on violent sports, the fulness of the Gentiles, using scores of languages to help fulfill Matthew 24:14, non-trinitarian ramifications, prophetic matters, the identity of the man of sin, Daniel 11:39 and the start of the Great Tribulation, the identity of Samaria, the connection between Habakkuk 2:1-8 and the United States of America, the final phase of the work, the mark of the Beast, and the third resurrection? Has the Continuing Church of God been restoring matters in the 21st century? Dr. Thiel addresses these questions and more.
39 comments:
Bob is No Prophet. He is more like a Guesser at a carnival putting on a show for money.
Surely there must come a time and be a time when there is no more ‘Truth’ to be restored.
But when is that lol. This is becoming so tedious, waiting for new truth and revelations. And exhausting. Will the real Elijah please stand up. Oh you say, scripture tells us he already came and Jesus said it was John. Rather clear isn’t it. As for pivotal prophecy, it is written ‘believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved’. Now that’s rather pivotal I would think. The Armstrong crowd have missed the bus again and fail to see the trees because of the forest.
Bob, be not ignorant of a 1000 years as one day with the Lord, meaning Jesus did say Elijah has come already but will be resurrected after 2000 years, two days, in the 3rd day (1000 years - Hosea 6:2) to help restore all things after Jesus returns to earth - Acts 3:21.
While critics focus on titles, Dr. Thiel is one of the few leaders actually doing the work of a 'watchman' by connecting current events to prophecy with historical depth. He isn’t claiming to replace HWA, but to continue the mission as knowledge increases in the end times (Daniel 12:4). If you look at the sheer volume of truth being restored regarding church history and apostolic succession, it’s clear the CCOG is filling a gap that other groups have ignored for decades.
I still do not understand the prophecy about how he will turn the hearts of the children and fathers toward one another. Does this mean that there will be a kind of family relationships revival? I don't think it occured in John's day, and I certainly haven't seen it these days. so where is ccog, lcg, ron and Laura and the others in all of this, and how have they revived family relationships?
Elijah? Nope! If there's a title fit for Bob, it would be that of an end-time Diotrephes!
Well, are, thanks for the comments. So we can be sure enormous growth is ahead for CCOG? TV studios, a global magazine, a campus being built to support the ‘Work’ are surely next for CCOG. Can you direct me to where to find the sheer volume of truth being restored regarding church history and apostolic succession please. That is backed by solid scholarship and is historically accurate and verifiable. CCOG is filling a gap that other groups have ignored…….what gaps are these? Can we discuss and talk about the African work of the CCOG and all the rumours circulating about adultery and witchcraft that are being ignored by some within the Armstrong movement.
Restored more truths??? Whom do we consult for verification of those "new" truths. Oh, I fogot. Bob expects us to take his word for it, or if we don't he whines about getting no respect from us as a prophet. He expects people to blindly follow him. Those kinds of expectations already cured me back in '75!
Oh, my, 1:19! Sounds like you have embarked on an exciting new journey! Oh well! It is not as if nobody warned you!
Yeah he's the Watchman for Witchdoctors, Woopie and Wackjobs👺🦇👹🤪
Bob is the end-time Rodney Dangerfield: "I don't get no respect!"
You know how scholars pay attention to writing style? The way that this is worded...Bob, is that you?
Problem with Bob is he believes everything Evans and Radson say to him as gospel truth. If he really finds out what's really going on under his nose, he'd be shocked and confused and his Prophet bubble would be burst.... I wonder what he'll do when and if he ever comes out of his Delusions, - only time will tell.....
I recall Bob writing in his writer blog that members third tithe needs to be used to pay for the ministers retirement. The reason he gave is that social security "is broken" and that HWA had forbidden his ministers to save for their retirement. Since when can a employer dictate how his employees spend or not spend their money? Even if a employer tried, only a fool or a ten year old would comply.
That Bob seriously suggested this shows that Bob lacks a sense of reality and has had his mind stolen by the cult of Herb.
HWA bullied his paid ministers into electing the government-allowed ministerial opt-out from Social Security, which also spared WCG from paying its matching half to the Social Security Fund. And he expected his paid ministers to work until they died, so there was no retirement to save for, just the promise of some discretionary aid if they became incapacitated or died and left a widow. No one was forbidden from saving, but outside of Pasadena most ministers were paid relatively little to do relatively little real work, so they didn't have much income to save. This is one reason why WCG established the practice of saving ministers' second tithe for them and only sending it to the paid ministry before the Feast of Tabernacles, otherwise many would have struggled with the same economic pressures as members and wouldn't have had enough 2T available for the Feast, a big embarrassment for them and for WCG.
Almost half the income Dr Bob receives in tithes is going for Witchdoctor payoffs and local whores also Gold prospecting, personal land and building projects for his Henchmen, the CCOG owns nothing in Africa. All Bob is doing is personality cult worship to himself, so he can feel his life has meaning via special annointing from God. Delusional Thinking is most evident in everything he's says or writes. Dr Pastor Bob 2.0 off the rails ....
Ya think he'll contact the artist who produced the scandalous "Trump-Christ" portrait?
Is true what I say on video about Mulowzoa going to women Witchdoctor but now I with pastor bob and he forgive me so mulowzoa and Evans forgive me Dr Bob take me back I'm lost son now good son pastor evans say we are all sinners so I forgive Evans mulowzoa about local woman and witchdoctors Evans did gold before ccog he's give good phone to help with my church . let's all forgive each other and spread the good news of kingdom
Or, Fert-Elijah!
You could be right in your assessment, 6:53. Each of the purveyors of Armstrongism resents being considered as part of the "Zoo" or "Circus" that is splinterdom, and attempts to differentiate himself from the others. I mean, look around! Who wouldn't?
Ultimately, so long as a ministry is based upon Armstrongism, it's going to be pseudo and bogus no matter who does what in an attempt to clean it up and legitimatize it. Plus, it is well known for its bad history in several ways. You can't clean it up. This is why many of us have gone into "clean sheet" mode in our continued search for answers. Even if certain leaders are of a mind to "scrape the $hit off their shoes", the members simply won't allow them to finally rid themselves of such flat earth concepts as British Israelism. For their part, no ACOG minister is going to admit that HWA's non-Biblical twistings of the Mosaic tithing system isn't the God's truth! That alone provides an abundance of motivation to teach Armstrongism. I mean, the hirelings teach dire penalties for NOT adhering to that "truth", don't they?
For the most part, people deal with "sunk cost" in one of several known, predictable ways. Some are incapable of writing off the loss and going on with their lives. They want to believe that something surely must be salvageable to justify the wasted time, financial resources, and angst. So they "splinter surf" in an attempt to find the correct package. Bob's ministry is predicated upon the possibility of attracting these philosophical surfers. Africa, you might ask, in response? Of course, Africa! He's just attracting surfers from another Millerite sabbatarian group, as has Wade Cox.
The big ACOG groups have their own think tanks and skunk works, whom I am sure are working 24-7 on turning Armstrongism around, and even they have not been able to attract and retain members. We've seen the leaked surveys, and read the minutes of their meetings. No silver bullets. It's doubtful that one little man could ever surpass their efforts unless there were the type of powerful attraction which many seek, but has been so elusive in its absence for the past 30 + years. Well, more than that. If we delve into Herbert W. Armstrong himself, we discover that he was a similar illusion.
"At the end of the Church age and 6,000 years from Adam, Christ would return to earth" -- that clearly did not happen. Even if we believe Bishop Ussher's incorrect calculations showing that Adam was created in 4004 BC, we are already at 6029 years later. But the Masoretic text, which his calculations were based on, is erroneous in some genealogies, because we need to add about 800 years. So we could well be 6829 years after Adam was created.
That daft theory about 6000 years is believed in lots of churches, not just ACOGs. Yet it has literally no biblical foundation.
Louis,
Yes there is forgiveness, where is repentance with these people? Forgivenessis not a license to keep on doing what is sinful and wrong. Remember what Mr. Armstrong had to do with Ted his son. There was forgiveness and a time of restoration, but it was short lived, and there came a time when Mr. Armstrong had to deal with Ted openly and have him axed.
Avoura, I don't believe mr. Armstrong literally meant that six thousand years = one day. We're not dealing with a literal equation here. There is no yield sign here. His saying about six thousand years is more of a qualitative or relative comparison, and from God's point of view as far as we can understand it. The verse says "as" not "equals".
Yes I understand, but pastor evans say we are all sinners and we must forgive like priscilla forgive mulowzoa and just like dr pastor bob forgive deacon sosten of his adultery and welcome him back to CCOG we as jesus we must forgive CCOG good church pastor evans give us new phones and promise us motorbikes to spread gospel to Malawi . you must remember satana accusing of brethren we must look to pastor dr bob he end time prophet
Good point, 6:46. The sinner has to show the fruits of his repentance before he is forgiven. Has he been humbled? Is there some emotion displayed (seriousness, deep apology, grief, fear, yearning, fervency, desire for justice; 2 Cor 7:11)? If he does it with a flat face with no emotion, that is a give away that the apology is cheap. By the same token, the minister has to be alert to the signs, which often they are not, preferring to draw their opinions from the ministerial gossip grapevine instead, while ignoring visible fruits.
6:22, the 6000 year theory does have some biblical foundation, since Peter drew from Moses' quote in Ps 90:4 to show that a day can be equated with 1000 years. If you believe that we are in the last days, the advent will occur on the 7th day millenial rest. Yes, it does appear that we are past 6000 years but, if so, it may be that He is giving us more time to repent. The 6000 year theory may be just an inspired later revelation (a principle and nothing more) and not a precise original edict, unless evidence can be found in a very old and trustworthy primary source.
In Genesis it is written that there are 30 days in a month when technically there are 29.5 days. So is 6000 years that much different from 6029? If you are already fitting 3 days and 3 nights (72 hours) of the entombment into a 39 hour period (with no proof of a resurrection at dawn -- only an empty tomb) to describe an event, why complain?
1:43, re the prophecy in Mal 4:6, right, it does involve family reunions but it also refers to the fathers returning back to the original faith of the fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. John the Baptist did accomplish this to a small degree when he brought many Jews and Israelites to repentance in preparation for the Lord's coming. When the Lord came with the gospel and delivered it to the disciples, we saw many Jewish priests come into the faith (Acts 6:7), which is the faith of the forefathers, the faith that saves.
It was a small beginning but it grew.
I trust Hillel and the Jews. The Jews were God's preservationists. So, if they tell me that today is1 Iyar, 5786, I believe them! Problem is, this also scares me! I can't imagine things continuing for another 214 years. Looking around, current conditions are the absolute worst of any era of my existence, and AI is right about to unleash holy hell! In fact, it's Billy Corgan time. Despite all the rage, I am still just a rat in the cage!
Prophets today are ineffective. This is a point in history at which we have numerous existential threats, and powerful people have become very adept at neutralizing those who warn about these threats, effectively countering their ideas, and promoting simple business as usual.
The two witness model from Revelation presents the only way in which a prophet could be effective in our contemporary times, because the manifestation of supernatural powers is the only theoretical antidote to the effectiveness of the talking heads who hold all the political and intellectual power.
You could develop a track record in accuracy, by properly predicting a string of events. The masses will only take these to heart, however, and allow it to change their lives if those predictions are punctuated or authenticated by a dose of defiance to the laws of physics, ie a supernatural manifestation. This is as it was during the times of Jesus, Moses, and also many of the great prophets from Torah.
Until Bob Thiel, or any of the other wannabe prophets, suddenly spits gold (or some such thing!), he just be spittin' in the wind!
BB
Louis,
Yes, correct, Satan is the accuser of the brethren (and I have experienced the full effects of these COG ministers and their hangers-on as Satan's aggressive operatives), but bringing up ongoing and very real issues is certainly not accusing. It is dealing with issues. As for the motorbikes and the new phones, I wonder what you and your's did before without them? Also, I suspect these toys in a land of want are like baby soothers, pacifiers, placations, bribes. As the Romans would have it, bread and circuses. I doubt that you agree, but I am interested in what you say nonetheless.
brother you must understand this is africa our culture is different from muzungus culture most men here have more than 1 wife and have also girlfriends am not ashamed to say I have more than 1 wife, I have before I join ccog before motorbikes we use push bikes and small phones pastor evans gives us good phones so we can spread gospel and motorbikes to use in travel to village, it is good thing our muzungu brothers bless us we happy now evans welcome us back to ccog hope of Israel dont give us these things they aren't blessed like CCOG dr pastor bob forgive us our sins and welcome us back he is true prophet. pastor evans comes soon with motorbikes and many gifts dr Pastor Bob buy mulowzoa nice car soon I get car also. ccog rich church God bless ccog an dr pastor bob
So Louis, it seems you talk about riches and material things here a lot. As for different cultures, what does that have to do with anything? The principles and the teachings of God in the bible should be your guide. Not your culture as your excuse and your justification.
For just one example that you raise, what did Jesus say about having more than one wife? Do you defy such Bible verses as Mark 10:6-10, Matthew 19:1-6?
So if c-cog were not giving you all these toys, would you return to c-cog? I doubt you would. You refer to rich church and material things so much here your message is laced with it. So you're not following God, you are following the ka-ching ka-ching trail.
So Louis, how would having more than one wife (polygamy), and having girlfriends (adultery), and being fixed on what material goods you can Get from a church (covetousness), how would this help to spread the Gospel? If anything it would do the opposite to that. Would you hinder the Gospel by your worldly works? Your attitude which you justify reminds me of Demas in 2 Timothy 4:9-10.
Yet there is actually nothing in the Bible to say that a man cannot have more than 1 wife. The verses you quote refer to divorce.
King David had multiple wives and concubines, as did King Solomon. Yet God did not say that was a sin. When King David committed adultery with Bathsheba (Uriah's wife), then that is shown as a terrible sin, especially as murder followed.
It is only modern restrictions and misinterpretations of the Bible that lead society to restrict men to have only one wife at a time.
1 Timothy 3:2 refers to one wife, but only if a man wants to be a bishop/overseer/minister, and in verse 12 deacons can only have one wife.
This would not even be mentioned unless some men had more than one wife.
Just for the record, I am a deacon and have only one wife.
Avoura said “Yet there is actually nothing in the Bible to say that a man cannot have more than 1 wife.”
If a man was allowed to have more than one wife at a time then God would have created more than one Eve for Adam. Like the Messiah said “but from the beginning it was not so.” Polygamy, adultery, divorce is all forbidden by God to Christians—a much more narrow standard and way of life to be lived. That is why His disciples reacted the way they did in response to His answer to the Pharisees ie “it’s better not to marry at all then.”
You can't blame ole louie louie, it's a free for all and more for him; Bobby will take him back 70×70😈🤣🤪😁😁
It would spread "something", pheww-ee.
Are the US CCOG ready to proclaim Louis W. as one of the 2 witnesses...look at that man preach, AWE! wow.
Additionally, does Bob expect S.S. folk to fork over their S.S. too...
He believes them over his handful of 20 or 30 US supporters maybe. The US flock can describe a problem & then be questioned about the validity. But the Africans? Their word is gold seemingly.
Hey Louis, how come you b' talkin' jus' like the old Amos 'n Andy show. Check it out in Youtube on one o' your generously shipp't laptops.
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