Does Faith Crumble When Errors Are Exposed?

There has been several discussions(arguments?) here about faith and what happens to faith once some of it's underpinnings are stripped away.  Does faith crumble away when things we assumed to be true are only myth, allegory or metaphor?

One should also note that just because it is a myth, metaphor or allegory does not make it meaningless.  Some of our greatest national stories on who we are as a people are centered around myths, metaphors and allegories.

Christianity Today recently had an article on Adam and Eve The Search for the Historical Adam  NPR (National Public Radio) picked up the story and it went viral.  Evangelicals Question The Existence Of Adam And Eve


NPR had this to say: 

Polls by Gallup and the Pew Research Center find that four out of 10 Americans believe this account. It's a central tenet for much of conservative Christianity, from evangelicals to confessional churches such as the Christian Reformed Church.

But now some conservative scholars are saying publicly that they can no longer believe the Genesis account. Asked how likely it is that we all descended from Adam and Eve, Dennis Venema, a biologist at Trinity Western University, replies: "That would be against all the genomic evidence that we've assembled over the last 20 years, so not likely at all."

 The OOZE (Evolving Spirituality) has an article up on this subject The Debate About Adam and Eve Has Nothing to do With Adam and Eve! 

The NPR article, rightly calling this a Galileo moment, cites professor Karl Giberson: “When you ignore science, you end up with egg on your face… The Catholic Church has had an awful lot of egg on its face for centuries because of Galileo. And Protestants would do very well to look at that and to learn from it.”

 The article goes on: “Asked how likely it is that we all descended from Adam and Eve, Dennis Venema, a biologist at Trinity Western University, replies: ‘That would be against all the genomic evidence that we’ve assembled over the last 20 years, so not likely at all.’”

Evolution isn’t the issue. Adam and Eve are not the issue. The science on origins is only becoming more solid- although there is an interestingly powerful myth that circulates in Christian subculture that there are tons of credible scientists that dispute the issue. Biblical scholarship isn’t the issue either- very few (any?) well-respected Biblical scholars take Genesis 1 and 2 as history (you can find creationists among biblical scholars at plenty of schools- but they have virtually no contribution to the field and trade credibility for tenure… it’s all about the money). The issue isn’t inerrancy or infallibility. Evolution is so contentious that most of my professors at seminary hesitate to admit to the class that they, along with pretty much everyone in the field of academic theology, believe in evolution (and it creates a firestorm when they occasionally do!). You won’t hear that in the pulpit either- because the study of the text is not the issue either. You also don’t generally hear that Genesis 1 and 2 are two different stories, written several hundred years apart in different parts of the world. You don’t hear that, even if you desperately want to take Genesis 1 and 2 literally, you cannot because of internal contradictions. That’s just a matter of reading the text, and when pointing that out is considered controversial and gets professors nervous about job security, we are reminded that the study of the text isn’t actually the issue.

So what is the issue that gets so many Christians wrapped  up in such a tizzy?  The OOZE article continues:

So what is the issue?

Fazale Rana, vice president of apologetics group Reason to Believe, opines: “From my viewpoint, a historical Adam and Eve is absolutely central to the truth claims of the Christian faith…But if the parts of Scripture that you are claiming to be false, in effect, are responsible for creating the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, then you’ve got a problem,”

Exactly. She gets credit for honesty. What undergirds this controversy is not a disagreement about the text or science; instead, it’s the belief that faith crumbles once you admit that the text has an error, isn’t historically accurate, or else it says correctly exactly what it means to say and you’ve simply misunderstood it all this time.

Philosophers Imre Lakatos and Thomas Kuhn described this phenomenon as epistemological webs and paradigm shifts. Lakatos described all our knowledge as interconnecting in a web, with more important, reinforced ideas consisting an epistemic core. Experiences hit the boundary of this web and force you to decide whether to incorporate new data or reject it. The knowledge within the web need not all cohere- it is only most important that the core ideas cohere well. When the web’s integrity breaks down due to dissonant data points, it becomes more parsimonious to think with a different core set of beliefs. This results in what Kuhn calls a paradigm shift in his book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.

The text of scripture is very, very rarely the issue in theological debates. 

The real issue is that we’ve decided to believe something and are desperately grasping for any way we can use the text to backward-engineer justification for our beliefs. This isn’t controversial. It’s just how we are wired…by evolution.

These concepts above are totally foreign to many hardliner evangelicals and to most in the Church of God.  To dare to question, to really examine scripture and tradition in depth is NOT something that is ever done.  To do so is heretical in the the eyes of most.

What does faith mean to you?  Can faith be destroyed by questioning?  Does not believing in a literal Adam and Eve undermine all the rest of the teaching in scriptures?

Don't Confuse Me With the Faith..I Mean Facts..No, Faith...Awww I Forget

Click to enlarge

H/T James McGrath

Don't Confuse Me With the Faith..I Mean Facts..No, Faith...Awww I Forget

You can't unring a bell. You can't unsee what you do see. How do you keep them home on the farm, once they have seen Paree? There's no turning back. Did I say you can't unring a bell?


Recently I wandered through the topics being offered for a large ministerial conference of my former peers. While typically the first topic of concern was, as expected, " The Offering as Worship, the other topics were not all that informative on the topic of the actual Bible. When a ministry is made up of Bible readers, you can generally skip the seminar on "A Scripture can never mean what it never meant."


There was one workshop where one might ask questions on theology to the one man provided to answer them for you, but I suspect the questions were rather light and foofy unless the group wanted to probe the depths of the nature of the Trinity or just what plan B may have been for God with Adam and Eve, mostly Eve, mucking up the works. Other than that, I am fairly sure a good hard question about the Bible that was not on the official list of acceptable topics for public disclosure was off limits. One certainly would not wish to become labeled as "he who asks too many hard questions." That would endanger your career. I would be reminded of the Wizard of ID being questioned by a commoner and being told, "well with ideas like that, you're really going to go up in this Kingdom." The next scene you see the commoner standing at the bottom step of the gallows with he hangman saying, "Up you go there buddy."


Long story, but I have managed to outgrow my church and I was the pastor. Not the one of my youth, which was Presbyterian, but the one I moved on to in my youth thinking it was more real and then gave almost three decades of my life to it. In time, nuther long story, they reinvented the wheel and insisted I return to my rather Presbyterian roots taking me full circle. I realized my love affair with organized religion and true churches was over. Nuther long story.


The tribe does not have much use for stray dogs. They either domesticate them for their convenience or they eat them.


In my personal journey through a very sincere belief that I was correct in my Biblical perspectives as a pastor, I have gone from believing in the "God breathed" inerrancy of the Book, to an eyes wide open understanding that the Bible is neither all that Holy, "the greatest Book ever written and full of errors, bad science, implausible accounts and many contradictions. I find my self marveling at the hours spent by sincere pastors straining to understand how the sins of Adam and Eve impact our lives today and place us all under the cloud of Original Sin and the need for blood atonement to make it all good again. The simple answer for me is now that the evolution of humans is good science and that the idea that any literal first humans called Adam and Eve is ludicrous. I"m almost ashamed of myself for taking so long to figure this out with the love of science I have always had but strained for decades to place it all in the context of Bible literalism, which can't really be done well...Ok, at all.


Since there was no literal Adam and Eve (and no, the creation of humans is not a mere 6000 years ago either), there was no literal sin for which everyone forever more after has to be cleansed from by the blood of a dying God/Man. The fact that there has been a score or more dying God/men in history, all of whom were born on December 25th, were tempted to fail, rose to the occasion, were betrayed, pierced and lay in the grave for three days and three nights only to be born again is pretty darn common. While some may love to "Tell the old old story of unseen things above...", they are not aware of just how old the story is or how it really did originate above in the stars.


The fact that this story of the Son of God and his 12 disciples is the same story as the SUN of God moving with it's 12 zodiacal signs over one year is something one never wants to notice or bring up. The fact is that SUN worship is THE origin of SON worship and all religion as we know it. The fact that the word "Galilee" means "circuit" is no coincidence. Jesus of the Galilee the Circuit is not much different than the trip taken by the Sun traveling around the circuit of the 12 signs of the Zodiac. They are both round trips from December 25th and back again with all of the same experiences in their ministry occurring right on cue. Great stuff, but let's move on.
Along with this, realizing that the miraculous events of the OT were mostly borrowed from older non Israelite mythologies, Prophets and Priests wove the tales far later than the stories imply and the real history of how the Bible came to be and "Houston...we've got a problem." At least I have a problem with using the not literally true texts to tell sincere humans how to literally be, think and do after coming to see what I can't unsee. Remember, you can't unring a bell nor return to the farm.


But where does one fit when the tribe has no use for you and stepping outside the box is going to have it's consequences? I'm amazed, yet should not be, of the phenomenal loss of "friends" one experiences when bells ring and lights go on. It's the price one pays for being unable to stay stuck in something you learn along the way is not as one has been told. Few go with you. some talk about you and all ignore you forever more.


The best I can come up with is that you become more of your authentic self...something organized religion is loathe to have you do in the first place. Churches and Priesthoods generally want followers, compliers and sheep. Ministers may seem to pride themselves in allowing for questions, but they are easy questions to answer because when all is said and done, one can claim that "God says it, I believe it. That does it for me" and put the ball back in the court of the reprobate questioner. If all else fails, the one who questions can be told "there is a way that seems right to a man, but the way thereof ends in death," or "God sees not as a man sees," or "The wisdom of God is foolishness with man," and thus all his questions can be dismissed. Of course, these putdowns don't answer the original questions, but they send the message that one is not even smart enough to ask the right ones. The cure for being "one who questions" may be everything from prayer and fasting to get the attitude straightened out to "how 'bout we sit out of church a few weeks and think about our relationship to Jesus." Either way, "he who questions loses." The Church and God always win in such cases.


So after  you outgrow your church, organized religion or the literalism of one's childhood Sunday School lessons, what is the purpose of one's life? Since Churches tell us that salvation through the blood of a dying God/man is the purpose of life, but now one has no confidence in that, what's the point? While I now can stay home from church and save a whopping ten percent, I'd still like to find meaning in life beyond being a food tube that eventually dies.


One of the many meme's of organized religion is that human beings are evil, nasty and worms in God's site. Their hearts are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked to the point of total mistrust. We are sin personified in nasty flesh and worthy of nothing but death, at best. Let's get right to the truth of the matter.


You and I are just fine. We are who we are and it's your goal in life to get to know yourself and who YOU are. We are all unique parts of the same one thing. It's not our goal or to our advantage to believe that we are to become someone else or follow the life, perspectives or world view of someone else. That ruse has restrained and constrained human-becomings for way too long on the planet. The "you're not good enough," meme is a set up for allowing others to control you with fear, guilt and shame to their advantage every time.


The goal in life is to get to know your own unique self. It's a troublesome process as there are more than enough others who feel you need to get to know and be like others who are less defective and wormlike than yourself. Don't fall for it. Nursing homes are full of people who would give anything to have another shot at being themselves. But that goes back in another way to not being able to unring a bell.

DenniscDiehl@aol.com    

Please Don't Tell Me How to Live My Faith

(Sheepeople Speak Up)

Please Don't Tell Me How to Live My Faith

I will determine how much, when and if I can tithe considering my family and personal needs...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I will participate in assembling together as my finances and need for quiet time in my live calls for...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I will attend the Festivals as able and not feel I have to spend 10% of my income as if it were merely play money in 8 short days...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I will "turn in" excess and unspent tithe if I wish to but also may need to buy groceries...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I will learn from your sermons if they contain real information from which I can benefit and grow, but won't tell you it was wonderful when it was boring...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I will look at my watch as often as I want without retribution, during your two hour sermons... Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I will notice your sermons are over even if you are not finished...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I'll attend extra Church activities IF I have time and am not exhausted from my other responsibilities or concerns...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I will agree with you about how you see any particular portion of scripture applies to me, us or them if I really agree...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I will screw up my nose and forehead as I feel I should during any bold statements you make during your sermons...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I will laugh when you didn't intend me to and be serious when you think I should be laughing as I feel fits the occasion...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I will leave services when they are over as soon as I wish or even stay after as long as I wish talking with friends...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I'll include or not include  you as Pastor in my life as I am comfortable and trusting of you and your perspectives and views...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I'll study and research whatever Biblical topics I choose to even if is not spot on with your view of the view of the organization...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I'll come to any conclusions outside of the demand to "all speak the same thing," injunctions from those over me...Don't tell me how to live my faith

I'll feel free to say, "that's your/their opinion" whenever I feel mine differs and my real life may be effected by such opinions...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I'll not push back if you don't push me/us/my family into all or nothing situations or positions...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

I promise not to tell you how to live your faith if you promise not to tell me/us how to live or express ours...or else.

I promise not to think of you as a "false minister or hireling" if you don't refer to me as a "dumb sheep"  Don't label me or tell me how to live my faith

I promise if you say such things as "And brethren, I am an Apostle," "I am that prophet," "I am the Watcher," "I am in charge," "I am God's minister," "I am one of the Two Witnesses,"  "My wife is the other witness because God works in families,"  "Send it in..." God told me," "Jesus caused..." "When God tells us to go to the place of safety," or that "Singles should bring a watermelon to the potluck,"  I will react according to that niggly little feeling in my stomach as appropriate...Don't tell me how to live my faith.

Amen

DenniscDiehl@aol.com