COG Prophet Upset That Another COG Member Knows More Than He Does

It has been another tough day in Arroyo Grande, CA as the self-appointed prophet to the Churches of God has been preempted with another book by a COG member.

Almost-arrested but not arrested Elijah Elisha, Habakkuk, Amos, and doubly blessed Bob Thiel is swiftly seeking to discredit Hayden "Chip" Fox and his new "bestseller" The Ultimate Guide to the Book of Revelation.

Elijah Elisha Thiel is adamant that no other COG member or leader has the correct revealed knowledge for the end times.  The only person on this earth to be God's mouthpiece, due to his double blessing, is Elijah Elisha Thiel.

Elijah Elisha Thiel black marks Fox right out of the starting gate by labelling him a "preterist". Most COG members have no idea what a preterist is, but it sounds dangerous coming from the mouth of a COG prophet, so it must be something heretical.

Here are some comments from Chip Fox about his prophetic interpretations in his book:

Seals start immediately after Christ’s resurrection and continue up to sealing of God’s servants in sixth seal just prior to destruction of Jerusalem and nation of Judah.  Seventh seal includes the seven trumpets that run from when the Romans first started (66 CE) conquering or destroying cities of the nation of Judah, then (70 CE) the destruction of Jerusalem.  Third trumpet is the pollution of Christianity starting with the Christian/Pagan mix in the 300s CE.  Trumpets continue up to the sixth trumpet which ends with the Ottoman empire in 1923.  Within the sixth trumpet, prior to 1923, there is an assessment of Christianity, and then a major change in Christianity because of the two witnesses. 

The seventh trumpet is not chronologically subsequent to the sixth trumpet, but concerns a much broader time span from prior to Christ’s birth to sometime after the conclusion of the sixth trumpet to the end of our age.  The seventh trumpet includes the seven bowls or vials, which are a subset within the seven trumpets.  They explain in detail what was given in brief in the second trumpet, i.e., the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple, and the political nation of Judah.  It also includes, so importantly, the shift completely away from physical Israel and toward the importance, promises, and reality concerning spiritual Israel. 

The seventh trumpet gives the whole background of Christ and the people of God, and all the things leading up to the destruction in 70 CE.  It gives details of the destruction. And then there is a chapter in Revelation, chapter 13, that explains why this destruction had to be done.  Chapter 14 gives the aftermath of the destruction.  Then we come to the symbolic description of New Jerusalem, which is stated to be the bride of Christ.  A physical city is not a bride. The body of all Christians, spiritual Israel, is the bride of Christ, but the symbol of a city that far surpasses the beauty of the Jerusalem of the first century shows how much more precious spiritual Israel is than physical Israel could ever have been. 

At the most, only one of the seven seals of Revelation have been opened as of now. Hence, the idea that any of the seventh seal trumpets already were blown, etc. is simply wrong. 

People who believe that most of the Book of Revelation was already fulfilled are termed ‘preterists.’ 

In general, preterists believe that prophecies that have not been fulfilled yet, have been historically fulfilled. Full preterists do not believe in a coming Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:21), whereas partial preterists believe some future prophecies were only for the past.

OMG!  How dare Fox interpret the events in Revelation as things that have already happened in history!  Oh, the heresy!  Never mind the fact that every single interpretation that Armstrong, Thiel, Blackwell, Hoeh, Waterhouse, Flurry, Pack, Meredith and others have made has been 100% wrong makes no difference.  Thiel is not wrong but Fox is.  Typical Armstrongism, but that will not stop Elijah Elisha Thiel!  He continues:

COG groups like ICG, CGI, UCG, COGaIC, CG7, CGG, and the old CEM do not officially teach and/or do not believe in the idea of Church eras (The Churches of Revelation 2 & 3), though they sometimes teach about the churches of Revelation. They tend to take more of a preterist (past) view of those churches, despite the fact that many statements made to them had to have future prophetic ramifications (e.g. Revelation 1:19; 3:3; 3:10). Because of that they do not teach certain prophetic aspects of this, most do not see their own problems and will have to go through the Great Tribulation.

Let me also add that, like many Roman Catholics, many COG groups believe that certain remaining parts of Daniel 9:27 were fulfilled anciently.

Furthermore, many COG groups and independents do not believe that the Gospel of the Kingdom of God still needs to be preached to the world as a witness per Matthew 24:14 (e.g. GCW, PCG), do not really make that a high priority (e.g. COGWA, CGG), or do so in less than truly loving the truth (cf. Jeremiah 48:10). Some either believe that Herbert W. Armstrong fulfilled it–which, in my view, is another preterist view–or it is a job only remaining for the two witnesses, which is an improper interpretation of what that verse actually says.

Some teach that there is no biblically-required King of the South as that supposedly was fulfilled, while at least one group is unsure (CGF-NW)–but this is an error. This is not considered by most to be a preterist error, but since that prophecy has not been fulfilled, I consider that to be one.

Most COG groups fail to teach Habakkuk 2:2-8 is an end-time prophecy, hence are not properly getting the warning out to the USA and UK. PCG totally misses it, and LCG, while it once would teach it, has backed off because of what appears to be internal politics–it basically believes that Habakkuk 2:2-8 was fulfilled anciently, despite it clearly being a prophecy for the appointed time of the end. So, yes, in that way, LCG is being a bit preterist.

According to Jesus’ words to the churches in Revelation 2 & 3, relatively few Christians will (the remnant of the Philadelphia Church Era only) truly understand the Book of Revelation and various other matters.

Elijah Elisha Thiel wants to know if you will listen to him and heed his words!

I do not believe that preterist books, like the one Chip Fox is promoting, are correct.

Will you truly listen and truly understand the truth?

Or do you prefer preterist and/or other improper interpretations of prophecy?

The apostate Thiel has been blabbering for some time now that any who do not heed his words will NOT know the correct time the tribulation will start and will suffer the consequences.  No one in their right mind should be listening to anything that comes out of Thiel's mouth and his improper interpretations of prophecy.  No one!

Hayden "Chip" Fox has this to say about his book and as you read it you will see it is a typical COG belief that he knows everything about everything regarding the book of Revelation.

Up until now, the book of Revelation has been one of the most mysterious books of the Bible. 

Interpretations of time-line sequences are have been varied and confused, and there is a widespread misunderstanding of what in the book is symbolism vs what is literal. This book will clarify the entire book of Revelation for you, and take the mystery out if it. Once you’ve read it, you will understand the logical sequencing of the book, and how amazingly accurate and applicable are all of its symbols. You will understand the time lines and the meanings of the prophecies from the time Revelation was written all the way up to today and beyond. This is unlike any other book you’ve ever read about Revelation, and will give you greater insight into the book than ever before.

I am more inclined to give Fox more credit than I do India diploma-mill Thiel.  Fox actually has real degrees and knows scientific study techniques, unlike Thiel who relies upon homoeopathic quackery models for his "study" and Herbert Armstrong booklets.  Even so, whenever a COG member or a former COG member comes out and says, "up until now" or "revealed at last" some biblical form of interpretation my resistance goes up.  We have had 80 some years of men doing this sort of stuff and there is no end in sight!

"Sickened in Charlotte" On Living Church of God Issues

This is a commentg left for this posting: "A Challenge For Gerald Weston On How To Improve Vi...": 

I've been in LCG for a long time. In the beginning, I was 100% enthusiastic and fully invested in the work. After the split there was an air of wanting to be better, to do better and to genuinely SERVE the brethren but it didn't take long before the same ego-driven attitudes of the leading men started to taint the waters. It progressively got worse as the years went by. I stuck it out for the last years of Dr. Meredith's life even though, at times, it was gruelling. The constant begging for money and emphasis on negativity in his letters prompted me to stop even opening them. The tedium and boring repetition of the magazine articles and the telecasts was just as predictable and BORING as the letters so I stopped watching and reading them. The frequent "next 3-5 years" failed prophecies were disheartening at first but then they just became cliche and made Mr. Meredith look foolish. 

When Rod McNair came to Charlotte the slow, downward path of LCG seemed to really accelerate. The back-biting and lies grew tenfold. The spying on my fellow brethren and the unfair (seemingly cruel) punishments that were doled out with regularity were even more discouraging and upsetting than the lameness of the work (there's a reason for the very limited growth). I watched the ministers of my church do horrible things to good people with no explanation or remorse but I still believed in keeping the Sabbath and the Holy Days so I didn't know what to do. I convinced my self that it was a trial by God to check my faithfulness and loyalty, so I stayed but my heart wasn't the same. I was so disappointed in LCG.

The sermons on submitting to the ministry and the ruling with fear instead of love (example: If you don't obey the ministry you won't be a pillar in the kingdom because God won't know that he can rely on you. Or, if you don't blindly obey the ministry, you might be disobeying orders that are preliminary to instructions on how to flee to the place of safety) were so repetitive that I could have easily given them myself because I heard them week after week, over and over again. I started doing my own Bible studies to for spiritual fulfilment because we certainly weren't getting it at church. I still looked forward to Sabbath services because of the fellowship.

Government, government, sex, government, death, mayhem, tribulation, destruction, 5 to 10 years, homosexuals, government. I sit and wonder, "the Bible is SO full of things to preach about, why is this all my church ever talks about???"

It was plain to see that Dr. Meredith wouldn't be around for too much longer so I told myself to stick it out until he died. Maybe things would be better under a new evangelist, right? Maybe a man who cared more about God than his own agenda and politics would get the position and LCG would be renewed. Maybe Dr. Meredith's replacement would fire the vain, tyrannical boot-lickers that had risen to the top and become the cancer that was killing the whole operation. Maybe.

I was actually very pleased when Gerald Weston was announced as Dr. Meredith's successor. I knew him socially and he seemed like a guy that wouldn't respond well to corruption. He obviously wasn't warm or overtly loving and kind but he seemed steady, fair and honest. I had hoped that he would weed out the bad seeds at LCG headquarters and get the ship back on track.

Gerald Weston has all but doubled-down on everything that was ruining LCG under Dr. Meredith. The McNairs seem to be able to tell him what to do and when to do it without limitation. Instead of breathing new life into the church, the downward spiral has again been sped up.

Am I the only one who sees this? I'm scared to talk to my LCG friends about it because you can't trust people not to turn you in. I don't know what to do. I had really hoped Mr. Weston would fix things. With no fix in sight, I am left feeling so discouraged. 


Sincerely,
Sickened In Charlotte