Happy 26th!

Dennis On: ""For God So Loved the World...." A very sincere question to consider

"For God So Loved the World...."

A very sincere question to consider

I would like to seriously and sincerely reopen a question I have had for years about the teaching that God gave his only son, Jesus, as a sacrifice for us.  I believe this audience would be able to draw on scores of scriptures to this effect so I will not reproduce them here.  

What I would like to ask, and sincerely so, is "In what way is Jesus death a real death and in what way did God give his son?"

I know our initial reaction is "on the cross" or "he turned his back on Jesus and abandoned him at death," or "Jesus gave his life for us..."  etc.  But in what way? From my perspective, it was not in anyway I can identify with as a human and the "loss" God suffered is not like any loss I have seen in the faces of parents who lost real children in death.

My personal problem with the concept is that from all accounts, well most, Jesus knew he would die but also that he would return better than ever in a mere three days and not in the flesh, but back at the right hand of God.  In what way is that a sacrifice?  Every sacrifice that died in the entire Bible stayed dead.  Jesus merely appears as a sacrifice but in a way that is not really like all the so called '"types."  Jesus death was not like human death.  It was almost like a play that has a really good ending once we get to the end.  It seems more like going through the motions but not really the emotions.

Now granted, it is no fun to die at a young age, but hundreds of thousands and millions have done it before and since Jesus.  But they are all dead and gone.  I can't imagine any grief lasting long if the families and friends of those who have died would have had to wait a mere three days to get them back better than ever. I can't even imagine any of those who died being all that upset if the knew, as Jesus and God evidently did that they would be back shortly better than ever.  That's not dying.  That's stepping out for a bit and coming right back.  That is not what humans call death nor parents who have lost a child, a tragedy that eats their soul up for the rest of their lives. 

God the Father knew, evidently, what his plan was and could bring his "only begotten son that he gave  back quickly.  I can't do that.  No parent of any children I have buried can do that .  How can this be said to be the most amazing parental sacrifice in the history of the world?  I can see if  the figure of Jesus STAYED DEAD and was not himself ever to be part of the coming Kingdom.  Now that would be a sacrifice on the part of both Jesus and God the Father.  But this mere "weekend inconvenience," seems to fall far short of that?  I ask sincerely for an answer.

In what way would God have agonized over Jesus death if it was merely a short weekend event from which God would easily recover the life of his son?

In what way is this the most amazing sacrifice of all time?  (Thousands of humans have been crucified, skinned alive , boiled alive and burned to death which would seem far more hideous than any six hour death on a cross.)  I have my doubts about Jesus being "marred above any other," as well but will leave that for another time. Death on the cross is generally a days long event where no burial is afforded the criminal and the body is left to fall off the cross to be eaten by dogs.  Jesus had the burial of a King with little of the humiliation that would normally accompany such events.  I'm sure many would have said in his day that "Jesus got off easy. He died really quickly."  

I have recalled how this question came to me when a client told me she lost her only child in an accident.  After telling me how little help her church had been trying to encourage her with, "God won't give you more than you can bare," "at least you have other children," (She didn't) or "At least you will see her again in heaven," the Pastor himself made the mistake of his theological career.  He told her that "well, God lost his only child too."  

"Uh oh.." I remember thinking.  He sure stepped into that.  I asked what she said and she assured me that she screamed "NO!" at the minister and then said,  "Jesus seems to have known he would die and come back in three days. God knew He was going to resurrect him in a mere three days better than ever.  My daughter is still dead!  A real sacrifice should stay dead.  Jesus death was merely a weekend inconvenience for both Jesus and His Father."

Ugh....I just listened and thought that she , in her grief and clarity, had hit on something so deeply disturbing to me that I later wrote about it.  I asked what the minister said and she said he just looked at her and said NOTHING.  Probably the best think he could have done under the circumstances.

It is a sincere observation and it has raised a deeply troubling but sincere question in myself since then.  

So in sincerity I ask,  In what way did God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son....?  How was it the most amazing sacrifice of all time?  Should not a real sacrifice stay dead?  And why would Jesus actual death which quickly was remedied by a better than ever resurrection be considered some kind of substitution for ours?

I simply have no answer for this observation and if I were still a minister and this was thrown in my face while someone was grieving the real loss of a child, would have nothing to say but,  "that's a good question.  I don't know."

 
Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com

Dale Schurter: The Master of Flip Flopping (Updated)

A reader commented on the  "The Dale Schurter Propaganda/Resignation Letter":

We had him for a pastor for awhile in UCG. Dale flip flops in his beliefs in unbelievable rapid fashion. In this letter he uses the names God and Jesus Christ. Last I knew in UCG he was using the " Sacred Names"....and admonishing UCG members they should be doing the same (to the point of members getting very upset with him). He had come to believe that using the names God and Jesus Christ was very evil. Now it seems he is using them quite frequently.

Also, the last I knew, Dale believed in keeping the new moons. And had some very different ideas than HWA about what will happen when Christ returns....like the bride will go to heaven (the sea of glass) and live there for awhile...I forget all the details, but it was radically different from what HWA taught.

He also claimed to know (via Ron Wyatt propaganda) to know where the Ark of the Covenant was (in a cave under Golgotha with Christ's blood on it), not to mention, where Noah's ark was, Sodom and Gomorrah (he even brought some sulfur smelling rock to church and in his sermon invited people to come up later to smell it...claiming it was authentic rock from Sodom & Gomorrah). Plus the true crossing of the Red Sea site by the Israelites, plus more. And also, the Sabbath doesn't begin and end at sunset...it begins before sunset (unspecified time) and ends after sunset (again unspecified time).

Oh, I could go on and on....oh yes, he also claimed to believe that members should have input and that he believed in a team effort...not the old top down stuff.

So now fast forward just 6 years or so and now he is claiming to believe in everything that HWA taught. RCG has it all just right and is God's only true church on earth. Yet it was UCG that tolerated Dale's "different" beliefs, and didn't boot him out on his behind.

So my question is: has Dale now changed his beliefs back to what HWA taught (has Dale now gotten "back on track"?) or does he still hold to some of the beliefs he was teaching in UCG (one week instead of sermon we had to watch a Ron Wyatt tape)? If he has reversed a lot of what he was teaching....I guess he will be OK in RCG. If he hasn't...and is "just pretending" to put a good face on to the Packman...then trouble is ahead for Dale because I do not think RCG will tolerate his beliefs for long...after they finish using him as a propaganda tool.

Added 1/15/12    

According to Dave, the earth is millions of years old. According to Dale its 6000.      Is the Earth 6,000 Years Old?

So "Mr. Dinosaurs lived with man" is already at odds with his new guru.