Catching up on truth in the Portland Library
(Let him who has eyes understand)
So back to the question
I have to admit, I watched every one of AronRa's refutations of Apostle Dave Pack's series on Irrefutable Proofs of God, which were easily refuted , with glee. It was a job more than well done by a man who actually knew what he was talking about compared to Dave Pack who only thinks he knows what he is talking about but really doesn't.
Several times in my ministry I experienced a glimmer of hope that new information which would really help the church and relieve burdens that were simply unnecessary were introduced .
The Systematic Theology Program my first experience with hoping we could stop majoring in the minors . Topics such as Divine Healing and Divorce and Remarriage were given a good looking over and burdens of belief and practice in these troublesome areas seemed on the verge of a balancing perspective. Wrong.... As most of us know, the ministers were ordered to turn in their copies of the STP and Authority trumped knowledge once again in the Church of God. Herbert Armstrong would have none of it and Satan got the blame.
AronRa pointed out to Dave Pack that his "proofs" were all one way , from the top down, through his series, his booklets and his opinions with the implication that once explained, it should now be your belief. That's how churches work. Here our booklet. Read and agree with it. Come to church and pray, pay, obey and stay. Simple!
Ever try to offer a rebuttal back up the chain of church "authority"? As the King told Herbie in the Wizard of Id who came to the King offering advice and some things that needed changing said, "Well with ideas like that Herbie, you'll really go up in this kingdom." The next scene we see Herbie standing at the foot of the gallows to "Up you go Herbie"
Truth in the Churches of God always have this bad habit of having to come from the top down. It can't come from new information on old well accepted church fairy tales. It certainly can't come from Books on the topic not written by the Grand Masters of the Churches. Unless it's an in house booklet it's not going to happen and for sure it ain't coming from YOU!
When I was a kid, if I had a theological question, and I had many, you simply asked the minister. After all he is the expert right? Even as a Presbyterian kid, I figured he'd know and he was supposed to know. And he did know the Presbyterian spin on all thing Bible and Calvin.
I have to say that if I had had the Internet as a kid, I NEVER would have given WCG a thought in its teachings much less wish to pastor churches in their name. Knowledge had not been increased as prophesied at that time and would only increase later with age , experience and dis-illusionment fueled by study on my own and allowing myself to come to my own conclusions without fear, guilt or shame. Disillusionment is not a bad thing. Who wants illusions? Well except the Splits, Splinters and Slivers...
The leadership of the Churches like religious folk. Religion, by my own definition is what OTHERS can pour into your head for you to believe. They can define your days of worship , your diet, your financial commitments and when to show up where and for what. They tell you what to believe and if you are a good member, you agree to believe it. I know you think you studied it our well but you really didn't because your leadership didn't and won't once their own beliefs are set in stone and unalterable. The ever changing "truth" is not what they can use to uphold their image as "one who knows."
Spiritual folk, on the other hand, are like cats. You can't herd them. They might listen to what you say, but their sense of self and belief comes from within and is not easily commanded to believe as told.
As my dad often said when he was told to do or be something he was not certain he had to do or be (sometimes by Dave Pack personally), "I'll take that under advisement." That was dad's way of saying "NO".
As my dad often said when he was told to do or be something he was not certain he had to do or be (sometimes by Dave Pack personally), "I'll take that under advisement." That was dad's way of saying "NO".
It is risky calling anything "The Plain Truth" when it comes to religion and issues of faith and practice based on Bronze and Iron Age admonitions and perspectives. It's especially risky when one has not done the hard work of study or literal exploration in the field. Dave Pack sat home in a nice chair, reading Creationist views and fondly remembering outlining The Genesis Flood in class 50 years ago, as if it was ultimate truth and it was not even close, and that was good enough. He no doubt read "A Whale of a Tale " and "A Theory for the Birds" and that pretty much proved evolution of all life to be a farce. Of course those booklets were the farce and grossly wrong as is Dave Pack today and was so mercilessly pointed out. Dave was way out of his league in thinking he could bully folk into scoffing at the facts of science and evolution and not get called out on it.
Those video rebuttals can now follow him the rest of his Internet life to give a better case for evolution than the case he made for magic and myth.
And that's the problem isn't it? In the Churches of God, you can't call out an Apostle, Prophet or Soon to Be Arrested Elijah Amos Thiel on anything. They don't listen , don't want to hear it, out of embarrassment can't change course now and dearly love to be the sole source of your truth and not others who actually know the facts. They don't really want to know the truth of anything. They want you to know their truth. They will dis-member you to protect the crock.
In the Churches of God the only recourse that leadership understands and that the laity has is to :
Withhold their support
Go along to get along
Vote with their feet
These are timeless and effective Church of God from the bottom up tools to get the attention of Apostles, Prophets, Presiding and Soon to Be Arrested types.
But don't be surprised that you will not be given the credit for research well done and common sense well explained. You will have to endure, "There is a way that SEEMS right to YOU, but it will end in death.." "The Wisdom, (buster) of Man (YOU) is FOOOOLISHNESS with God." or my favorite, "You are just using human reasoning," to which I would then ask them, "and what kind of reasoning do you use?" If they say "God's" , well you got 'em on the basis of human arrogance and hubris.
All this to say, and to encourage those still hanging on to Splits, Splinters and Slivers, that it is ok to think for yourself. It is ok , in real life and living to express the following concepts of real living and personal integrity:
"With all due respect, I don't believe that."
"What is it about AronRa's rebuttal you either don't understand or don't agree with and why?"
"We won't be attending that event"
"I give what can but don't order me to "Send it in"
"Well that's your view, it is not mine and here's why"
"No, I/we have no intention of believing you know we must flee to Petra and you will be the one to give the order."
(This is a particularly good skill to have in case Apostle Dave Pack issues such orders. His luck with prophecy and the truth of many things of late has been right at 0% correct)
"I'll take that under advisement..."
Established churches by nature can't change much. It spooks the brethren. If they do change, the do it over decades and centuries leaving the past generation of believers to believe what the next will be able to shed. THE REASON WCG under the Tkaches and now it's poor cousin Grace Community International under Joe Tkach have crashed and burned is because of radical, foolish and immediate change over months. All that does is leave the laity with the distinct impression that today's truth is tomorrows joke and the jokers in charge don't know what they are talking about at any one time. I think we can all recall the 37 changes back and forth on the topic of make-up. It was no if Herbert said no. It was yes if Ramona harassed him over it long enough.
Not observing and recognizing your beautiful children's birthday because some jackass in history cut the head off some fanatic is not really a good enough reason not to send the message to your children you love them are are very pleased they showed up on the planet.
Group truth is weak truth and probably not true for the most part. Truth handed down from the top is also probably not as true as one would like it to be.
Notice the reason groups and churches must all speak the same thing.
"I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought."
I Corinthians I:10
Here, the reason that all must speak the same thing is to prevent discord and division and to give the appearance of group agreement on all things. This is, in reality and practical fact,an impossible requirement if one really wants to get to the truth of anything. All believing the same thing just to preserve unity is not a healthy or even honest pursuit of what is actually true. Of course, it rankles the group big time.
Groups don't possess truth. Individuals do and while it might be said to be their truth or their present truth, it at least implies there might be more to come with newer and better information which they will always be willing to consider.. Groups don't like newer and better information and for sure those issuing truth from the top down detest it.
Think about it....
