Musings: Who Got It Right?

 

Sunday School for Critical Thinkers and Apologists: Who Got It Right?

Jesus is said to have said...

 

The Gospel of John is said to have been written between 85 CE and 110 CE

John 3:13

Berean Literal Bible

And no one has gone up into heaven except the One having come down out of heaven, the Son of Man.

New International Version

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

King James Bible

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Either the author of John knew little about the Old Testament stories and had never read Paul's letter to the Galatians, or he just disagreed with the stories and his Jesus said that he only had ever ascended into heaven.

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OF course, none of the authors of the following stories would have known that Future Jesus and Gospels would have said that no mere human has ever done this...

Enoch ] is a biblical figure and patriarch prior to Noah's flood, and the son of Jared and father of Methuselah. He was of the Antediluvian period in the Hebrew Bible.

The text of the Book of Genesis says Enoch lived 365 years before he was taken by God. The text reads that Enoch "walked with God: and he was no more; for God took him" (Gen 5:21–24), which is interpreted as Enoch's entering heaven alive in some Jewish and Christian traditions, and interpreted differently in others.

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2 Kings 11-Written between 560 and 538 BCE

11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

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2 Corinthians is said to have been written by the Apostle Paul around 55 CE before any Gosple was ever penned. Here we see Paul boasting about the experiences denying he is boasting, which he is, but if he did boast about it, which he isn't, it would be true.

...which personally I suspect wasn't true

2 Corinthians 12:

2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows— 

4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak. 

5 On behalf of such a man I will boast; but on my own behalf I will not boast, except in regard to my weaknesses. 

6 For if I do wish to boast I will not be foolish, for I will be speaking the truth; but I refrain from this, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me.

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NOTE: I really enjoy Paul's reasoning in Verse 6:

"I want to boast but that would be foolish. But if I did boast  what I boasted about above, in verses 2 -5,  would be true. But I won't do that so that no one thinks of me as more special, though special I am, than I am. "

:)

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Just a normal day in COGland

From a reader:

This COGlogyte has wrenched his neck at work, and goes to his pastor for annointing. After the prayer, the pastor advises him that it may be a good idea to have a chiropractor examine him. 

 

So, he goes to the chiropractor, who adjusts the man's neck. He suddenly feels quite a bit better, so asks the doctor what he did. 

 

"Oh, I adjusted your third cervical vertebra. It's back in place, but I'm going to give you some simple exercises to strengthen the muscles so that it stays in place!" answers the Chiropractor. 

 

The wife is happy to see her husband as he walks in the door, and asks him what the doctor had done.  

 

"Well, he said he adjusted my third cervical vertebra!" exclaims the man. 

 

"Oh, Honey," she giggles. "Those guys don't know any more than those sorcerer doctors! A man doesn't even have a cervix! That's part of the female anatomy. 

 

"Yeah, I know! Good thing I got annointed! That's probably why I feel so much better!" replies the man.

David C. Pack: "Anybody who teaches error isn't wise, never mind faithful. That's the stupidest thing you could ever do."

David C. Pack: The Unwisest

 

During “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 478)” on November 4, 2023, David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God displayed an astonishing lack of self-awareness with his comments about teaching doctrine.

 

Moments like this prove God has a sense of humor and is a fan of irony. Listen to something so incredible that you cannot make it up in 3…2…1…

Part 478 – November 4, 2023

@ 49:11 Now, I I, you know, I have to teach the truth or I'm not a a wise and faithful servant. I'm not even wise. Anybody who teaches error isn't wise, never mind faithful. That's the stupidest thing you could ever do.

 

David C. Pack spoke those words on the selfsame day the Kingdom of God did not arrive on Cheshvan 20. He has been teaching documented errors since 2013 and yet is blind to his own words and how they apply to himself. Religious fraud always occurs somewhere else by somebody else. A long, hard look in the mirror is just too frightening to attempt.

 

Whether it is due to a childhood head trauma, malignant narcissism, mental illness, or a spirit-powered opaqueness, another comment later shows how separate he sees himself from the warnings he utters.

 

@ 58:23 Turn over to James 1. And I hope this sobers anybody who thinks this way. Who can’t take direction. Who have all the answers. James 1:22.

 

An express lane at The Restored Church of God Headquarters is installed for those who try to give Mr. Pack direction. They are handed a golden one-way ticket and invited away from the Campus if they tell Mr. Pack he does not have all the answers.

 

I was once "nicely" dressed down by Bradford Schleifer after a staff meeting because I made a statement that “sounded like you were teaching Mr. Pack.” That was true. I was telling him something he did not know.

 

Dave was curious why more staff members were not willing to ask questions. He said that he would not stop with the questions if he had access to Mr. Armstrong like we had access to him. I always asked questions during staff meetings but waited to see if others wanted to go first. So this time, I raised my hand and explained that some people feel intimidated or fear if they ask the wrong question or in the wrong manner, they will be corrected. Staff members watched their coworkers get skewered in front of everyone else in the past. I had not yet witnessed this at Headquarters.

 

Dave said he appreciated the answer and even came to me after to say, "Marc, you always ask good questions." Then, Brad and my manager returned to the Media Center, where I was corrected. I was later told when this happens, Dave is the one who tells the ministers to take care of it. If that was true with this scenario, to my face, Dave said he appreciated my questions but then had Brad be the hatchet man.

 

This is the tiniest sliver of the manipulation and mind games at Headquarters.

 

 

Dave can hand out the admonishment, but his ego will not allow him to receive it. The concept of correction is not for him, after all.

 

“Anybody who teaches error isn’t wise, never mind faithful.

That's the stupidest thing you could ever do.”

– David C. Pack, Part 478

 

Words fall from his mouth, and he forgets what he said in moments. The second half of Part 478 is loaded with doctrinal adjustments. The naysayers might refer to them as “errors," but only if you are a critic at heart.

 

@ 52:49 There's another year we never considered. It will surprise you, and it powerfully changes exactly how we’re waiting. It has nothing to do with Abib 1. Certainly not Tishrei 1. Or Cheshvan 1. How the tarrying, the delay plays, comes off of nothing whatsoever to do with any of those dates. So again, it blinded US and I wanna talk about it.

 

Dave was waiting for the wrong date and was blinded. That sounds like he was teaching error.

 

@ 1:11:07 …I’m gonna clear up some things WE never understood. But, we’re already in delay. The middle of Cheshvan 1 last year and Cheshvan 1 next year has nothing whatsoever to do with the midst of the years. Nothing. WE were counting wrong.

 

The cynic in me thinks that also sounded like Dave was teaching error. The Cheshvan 1 Midst of the Years Prophetic Wooden Ruler Art Project has been forced into early retirement. I wonder if Pepper Boy will display that biblical artifact over his fireplace as a reminder of the wonderful journey he has been part of.

 

 

 

“Anybody who teaches error isn’t wise, never mind faithful.

That's the stupidest thing you could ever do.”

– David C. Pack, Part 478

 

@ 1:13:11 Now, have WE missed something very powerful regarding the Day of the Lord? Very, very powerful.

 

@ 1:22:56 …and we weren’t done with the Series until we learned this.

 

Early reports of Part 479 on November 11 confirmed the Series is not over, and many elements of Part 478 were found to be…well…errors.

 

@ 1:28:36 You should be sitting there electrified. Nobody’s ever understood this before. Nobody.

 

 

@ 1:31:34 Now, something else greatly threw US off and I wanna just straighten it out and it may lead us to know how long we have. I don’t know. I’ve gotta finish this message today. I’ve got to.

 

More error.

 

@ 1:38:01 So, WE had (this is important to understand) WE had “the midst of the years” in the wrong place and WE were working with a wrong kinda years. Anybody think WE had much of a chance of getting it right? WE didn’t.

 

Dave was teaching error.

 

@ 1:58:11 But I cannot pin it down as an absolute expectation that we know the day. So, Godspeed the day. You could theorize Mr. Pack, “Could could it be tonight?” Absolutely, it could. I doubt it because I think everybody has to hear this.

 

The date is once again unknowable. So much for Cheshvan 15 and 20. Those were errors.

 

“Anybody who teaches error isn’t wise, never mind faithful.

That's the stupidest thing you could ever do.”

– David C. Pack, Part 478

 

The ex-members of The Restored Church of God have become keenly adept at seeing the future clearly and more accurately than David C. Pack and all the faking hireling enablers at Headquarters.

 

@ 1:58:46 I’m not planning another message. But you’ve heard me say that before. I, at this point, I, again, the cupboard's bare. There's no crumbs, and look at the amazing stuff that we saw in one week. Would there be another message? The answer is just unlikely. Maybe highly unlikely.

 

“The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 479)” was delivered yesterday. Listening to it is next on my to-do list. The Series is not over. Duh. Time is not short. Duh. So, on and on and on it goes. One message serves the purpose of correcting errors from the previous messages while introducing new errors that will later need to be clarified with other errors.

 

This is the cycle of The Restored Church of God, and brethren are willing to endure it.

 

David C. Pack is not wise. David C. Pack is not faithful.

 

I did not say that. He did.

 

“Anybody who teaches error isn’t wise, never mind faithful.

That's the stupidest thing you could ever do.”

– David C. Pack, Part 478

 

 

According to his own words, David C. Pack keeps repeating the stupidest things he could ever do and cannot stop doing it. That is so unwise.

Marc Cebrian

See: David C. Pack: The Unwisest