“For even the very wise cannot see all ends.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien,

"Sorry...we didn't see that coming!" 

The Problem with Prophecy

Copyright © Dennis Diehl, Nov 4, 2005

One of the hallmark traits of most Fundamentalist Christians is their obsession with Bible Prophecy. Prophecy has a rather mystical draw to it and implies that the future is not so unknowable after all. Most humans spend their waking time either in the past feeling angry or in speculation of the future feeling anxious. It goes with not having the ability to live the real day one is currently experiencing. Many Christians have raised knowing the future to an art form and have learned that it is also quit profitable for the church in keeping members in line with fear, anxiety and a perverse kind of hope. 

Bible prophecy and making it the center of one's life, reading the Bible as if it were a Newspaper, is a slippery slope and a very negative way to live one's life.

With enough study, one can learn that there are other explanations for that which many hold so near and dear as predictions of things that will happen "shortly" in the future. No one seems to think that "shortly" for whoever really wrote Revelation has now been over Two Thousand Years! I hate to think what "I'll be back later" would mean.

We have learned to develop the bad habit of reading Paul's predications of "time is short" with the same generous deference to the fact that short for Paul never really quite worked out for him either. We all know the cycle Paul went through of telling the Church to be ready, act as if you had no family and support the Church, to his final realization that "oh well, I fought a good fight, it was fun while it lasted, I was wrong... I still win... see ya." 

On the other hand, we have areas of scripture that have always been used as prophecy which, to me, are simply not and never were intended to be by the original authors.

Isaiah 7 is an example of such a use of OT scripture by NT authors. This virgin birth prophecy ranks as one of the most questionable uses of scripture Matthew used to tell his story of Jesus birth. Matthew had a habit of mining the OT for anything that seemed like it fit the story he wanted to tell about Jesus. When one examines the OT context, we have to conclude that, that at least in its original meaning, it was never meant to have the meaning Matthew assigned it. 

In fact, in its original context, it has absolutely nothing to do with prophecy but is merely a historical account of events going on at the time. It was never viewed as a prophecy of the birth circumstances of either the Jewish Messiah or Jesus until Matthew mined it for its story telling value to his perspective. Matthew took the parts that fit his story but left out parts of that same story in Isaiah that obviously made no sense to his perspective on Jesus. If you simply look at Matthew's accounts of Jesus birth story, it is easy to see he cobbled it together in the style of the day from OT scriptures and not real events that he knew of. It is not my point to explain all this here, and I have touched on it in past columns.

Another aspect of "prophecy" we miss is that much of what the COGs [Churches of God] use to promote their urgency upon the membership is probably prophecy written after the fact, which makes it really non-prophecy. 

Either the book of Daniel was written during the time of the events recorded, 585 BC, or as many scholars now feel, it was written much later in the 160's BC to encourage the Maccabeans in their revolt against Rome. It was written AFTER all the events prophesied took place, which is why Daniel 11 is so specific. Daniel 12 then becomes rather generic because after the rise of Rome, the authors didn't really know the rest of the story much after the specifics of the 160's ended.

The point is that we all know that OUR lives were lived, and many still live their lives out, linking Daniel to Matthew 24, which also was written to address issues now long past from our times. 

Again it is not my purpose to prove that to you, but I have accepted that much of what we call history prophesied is really "prophecy" historicized, or the conforming of later writings to fit events as they had already occurred. If the detail of Daniel 11 is the kind of thing that is able to be locked in stone for future fulfillment, then we as humans have no choice in the part we have to play in the game as it is already decided for us evidently down to the details. It's a philosophical problem to me about choices and free will. 

Other problem with prophecy is that they simply didn't come true. We all were groomed with the fantastic story of the fall of Tyre and how it would be scraped bare never to be inhabited etc. The problem is it wasn't and the city of Tyre existed in NT times and does to this day. The Tyranians rebuffed Nebuchadnezzar and only succumbed to Alexander the Great, yet still exists. It's a cop out to point out ancient ruins in the water as proof of prophecy fulfilled when the city called Tyre is just over your shoulder. These facts are easily found in a simple search on the topic.

Ezekiel's Failed Prophecies on Tyre and Egypt 

Ezekiel made a prophecy that, at the time he wrote, seems most likely to be fulfilled. The prophet was writing, in 587 BC, at the time when Nebuchadnezzar was laying siege on Tyre. With such a powerful army like Nebuchadnezzar's, it was not surprising that Ezekiel prophesied the fall of Tyre to the Babylonian king.

Ezekiel 26:7-14: For thus says the Lord: "Behold I will bring upon Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, and with horsemen and a hosts of many soldiers. He will slay with the sword your daughters on the mainland; he will set up a siege wall against you. He will direct the shock of his battering rams against your walls, and with his axes he will break down your towers...With the hoofs of his horses he will trample all your streets; he will slay your people with the sword and your mighty pillar will fall to the ground...they will break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses... I will make you a bare rock...you shall never be rebuilt, for I have spoken," says the Lord God. Personally it seems that "say the Lord God" was really "says Ezekiel" a prophet who also showed many classic signs of schizophrenia. 

The whole passage clearly prophesied the sack and complete destruction of Tyre by Nebuchadnezzar. However, the vivid description of the sack and fall of Tyre never happened. After a siege of thirteen years, until 573 BC, Nebuchadnezzar lifted his siege on Tyre and had to arrive at a compromised agreement. Thus Nebuchadnezzar did not destroy Tyre. Tyre was destroyed by Alexander the Great, 240 years later. And furthermore, despite the prophet, the city of Tyre was eventually rebuilt. 

When Nebuchadnezzar broke the gates down he found the city almost empty. The majority of the people had moved by ship to an island about one half mile off the coast and fortified the city there. The mainland city was destroyed in 573, but the city of Tyre on the island remained a powerful city for several hundred years. 

The implication of this paragraph is clear: that Nebuchadnezzar destroyed a major portion of Tyre. Tyre's main city was always on the island. The part of the city on the mainland is nothing more than a suburb. In other words, Nebuchadnezzar could achieve no more than take over a relatively minor part of the city. Furthermore it is obvious from the passage in Ezekiel that the complete destruction of Tyre by Nebuchadnezzar was prophesized. Ezekiel himself admitted that this prophecy was a mistake! 

Ezekiel 29:17-20: ...the Lord God came to me: "Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon made his army labor hard against Tyre; every head was made bald and every shoulder was rubbed bare; yet neither he nor his army got anything from Tyre to pay for the labor that he had performed against it... (Website: Rejection of Pascal's Wager) 

The prophecies of both Isaiah and Ezekiel against Egypt also fell far short of reality in their "fulfillment." 

"The prophet Isaiah, for instance, foretold the drying up of all the waters of the Egypt, and the destruction of all land used for plantation due to this drying up of the River Nile. 

Isaiah 19:5-7: And the waters of the Nile will be dried up, and the river will be parched and dry; and its canal will become foul, and the branches of Egypt's Nile will diminish and dry up, reeds and rushes will rot away. There will be bare places by the Nile, on the brink of the Nile, and all that is sown by the Nile will dry up, be driven away, and be no more. 

This part of Isaiah, widely accepted by scholars to be written around the eighth century BC, is about 2750 years old. And in all this period of two and three quarters millennia, this prophecy has yet to be fulfilled! Moreover it is clear from the context that Isaiah prophecy was meant for the Egypt of his time. For it was with that Egypt that Isaiah and his people had a grievance against, and the prophecy was a warning to them. Obviously this is a clear example of an unfulfilled prophecy." (Website: Rejection of Pascal's Wager) 

I only point these out because so many would NEVER entertain the idea that any prophecy of the Bible didn't come true and will launch any number and kind of apologetic to defend what was said would be from what really occurred in history. Some of you are doing that right now.. :) 

And now we again live in a time where "prophecy" can manipulate real lives. There are any number of those who just know how it will all be. The kings of all directions are doing this and that..."just read my article and see for yourself." Every world news event, like in the 60's or 70's or 80's, is worthy of note. The last Pope would be the last Pope and now this Pope will be the last Pope and I expect the next Pope will also be the last Pope. Meanwhile we get older but not the wiser for the experience. What we'll end up with is drawing every imagined prophetic event to ourselves in reality as some government leaders even seem to base policy on "what the Bible says." It is very possible to cause things to happen because one expects them to happen. The problem is you end up with all the damage and none of the salvation. In short, an end of the world scenario can be acted out based on false subconscious beliefs and yet still you end up with no Second Coming, World Tomorrow or Kingdom of God. 

So why might it be better not to LIVE your actual life around the alleged reality and truth of prophecy and the "imminent" return of Jesus which has been imminent now for a couple thousand years? 

I've been there, I've done this. I've lived my real life ahead of my actual life while it quietly slipped by. I've made life decisions in the past based on a preoccupation with the future. I've also let a lot of precious life time go by thinking about things that proved to be untrue and teaching things that weren't. I thought they were, but when one realizes they aren't, it would be hoped one would stop that. I did. 

Basing a life on what may or may not happen in the future, and Bible types did it all the time and were wrong too, is to miss the present. And whether one admits it or not, the present is all we ever actually really have to work with. Your kids really are their ages they are NOW and one does not postpone making memories with them now because the future is a more serious consideration. They will NEVER again be kids, and you and I will never again be any younger.

 For Paul, to live might be loss and to die gain, but that's theological rhetoric and let's face it, Paul never, from what we can note, ever had to enjoy his children, mate or life in the now. He was in the imminent future right up until it bit him in the ass. He may have had the power to have a wife, great word there, "power", but I bet he was basically not one the women would flock to, to begin with. 

If you are still in a COG, does your Sabbath experience, weekends that your kids also have to call their free time, only consist for them of coming, sitting and going? How often we forget that the parents generally got to make their life decisions but then deny them to their children. I know, "raise up your child in the way he should go..." Problem I have is with the "should go." 

I used to take my kids to the local zoo on Sabbaths after church. This was in the 1970's. I have never regretted spending MANY a Friday night with them when little, swimming at the YMCA and stopping at Dunkin Donuts on the way home. That ritual of the "now" is far more remembered than any sermon I may have given that day. But for some, depending on their prophecy laden pastor, life is just one big "around the corner", "just a little longer" and never ending "gun lap." I had kidded for years that we have been in the gun lap so often, we run the risk of running out of bullets. Little did I know that was a prophecy that would come true! 

Prophecy means little to me at this point in my life. Actually I believe there is no such thing as prophecy. Bible prophecy that seems to have taken place is, as I have said, prophecy historized not history prophecied.   Humans don't and can't know the future. How many Apostle Paul's and  Dave Packs does it take to prove that! 

 It may mean a lot to some of you depending on who is feeding the need to know what I don't think we can know in this world. We can hid behind the idea that we know God is doing this or that, but that's pretty iffy knowing.

Whatever your position, at least know that even the Bible got it wrong at times, no matter what your pastor says or how your church motivates you with prophecy to live on the edge of your chair, just a bit ahead of the now, in somewhat a fearful or at least anxious, "what's going to happen" state.

 Isaiah was mistaken, Ezekiel was mistaken, Paul was wrong and yes, even Jesus was mistaken in his own perceptions of his own experience. That's another story.

If we can be wise enough to see that even Bible prophecies indeed have failed, that some prophecies are not really prophecies, and that reading the newspaper as if it were the Bible come to life is not wise, we might actually have a life in the now we can say was a real life. A life lived in anticipation of some alleged future is not a real life. It's disillusionment in the making. 

Dave Pack: " BEFORE YOU REGISTER FOR THE FEAST CONSIDER THIS!"

Is America the beast power?

Is America the beast power?

There are some people who believe the USA is the modern Babylon? 

Some of their reasoning is not really “reasoning”, but maybe they are on to something. 

 Babylon was the big bad empire in the last days of the Judean kings. 

Today, the USA is the undisputed military power – and some of its detractors consider it the big bad empire – or worse. 

 Who can make war with the beast? 

The USA has a strong interest in Israel – could they end up sending troops there? 

 You can make a case for the USA being the beast of Revelation. 

The problem you run into, is who is the false prophet? There are so many to choose from – and that is just in the COGs. There are also so many other contenders. 

 Now maybe you are wondering about the miraculous powers of the false prophet. 

Well, wonder no more. With today’s technology and some smart tech, you too can call down fire from heaven. The USA does it all the time already with its smart bombs. 

Having drone aircraft rain down fire is an easy one for people with the right tech. 

 Now, we are still left with the two witnesses – two people with an Internet connection broadcasting live from Jerusalem, studying the weather forecasts for droughts and floods, and local news for fires. 

Could this scenario be true?

No idea, but the COGs need a new prophecy line to get some excitement and recruits with money.

submitted by TLA

Fraudulent COG Pharisee Claims In 2-3 Years That Truly Converted Will Join His Group And Flee

Get your bags packed folks!  It will soon be time to flee be fleeced by another self-appointed apostate liar who is making more outrageous claims in further attempts to deceive COG members and take their money.  The Armstrongite Churches of God will forever be filled with these self-appointed liars who think they know more than anyone else and who think they have found some verses out of the Bible to "prove" they and they alone are "the voice in the wilderness crying out."

We are heading into the 9th decade of these stinking turds piling their legalistic dreamed-up messages on the rotting and decaying body of what is left of the church. COG members lives have been ripped to pieces by these frauds.  Lives have literally been lost because of these vile deceivers and yet they will NOT shut up!  Each one sees themselves as the "last hope" for the church.

James Malm writes:

I am calling on all of these organizations to observe God’s Feasts and all of God’s Word in a wholehearted way. 

A new post is coming at this site for Pentecost on how to know if we are following God’s Spirit or a false spirit.

It is wrong to remain knowingly associating with the sinful and think that we are trying to please God (1 Cor 5:11, 2 Thess 3:6).

2 Thess 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition [doctrines of Holy Scripture] which he received of us.

Associating with the unclean makes the clean unclean (Haggai 2:10-14), we need to leave spiritually unclean organizations when they justify their sins and we are certain of the facts, we need and to go where we can please God even if that means standing alone as very many are now doing. Through history very many have learned that standing with God you are never alone.

Even now many individuals and small groups are keeping God’s Festivals in a godly manner and this trend will grow. In spite of most people being at corporate groups TheShiningLight gets about 1200 daily visits to our Festivals presentations.

The time is coming very soon, perhaps within two or three years, when God’s servants will call the brethren to abandon the apostate groups which refuse to turn to God, and to come together in a new God fearing Assembly and leave for God’s prepared place.

Then those Babylonianized groups which place men as binding and loosing God’s Word between God and the brethren, will be cast into the tribulation of great correction; as it is written: Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Then those who insist on remaining with these apostate groups who refuse to turn to God will be cast into great correction with them. James

If you take your Bible literally, as these stinking false prophets claim they do, then you need to heed these very specific words from Jesus about them.  Sadly, the self-appointed COG prophets do not care about these verses. They've already spent their lifetime ignoring Jesus, so why start now.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Matthew 7:15–20

“Take heed that no one deceives you. Many false prophets will rise up and deceive many” (Matt. 24:4, 11).

The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. (1 Timothy 4:1-2)

False Teachers and Their Destruction
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. (2 Peter 2:1-3)

On Denying the Incarnation
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.  (1 John 4:1)

The Sin and Doom of Ungodly People
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. 4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about[a] long ago have secretly slipped in among you.They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. (Jude 3-4)

Kevin Dean Sentenced to 40 Years In Prison, 2nd Case Pending

From one of Kevin's victims:

The PA called me this morning to let me know the good news.... Kevin Owen Dean pled guilty this morning and was sentenced to 40 years. He will do at least 20. There is another case pending in Cob county. That bastard is going to rot in jail for the rest of his life!!! I am so full of emotions..... 

Summer's Coming! So, A Fireside Chat about SEP Decades ago

I have always said that if there is one thing the Church did right - it was the Summer Educational Program.

Now many may have different opinions on this based on where they were in the Church Timeline. The 1960s and 1970s were particularly rough, with SEP operating more as a boot camp then a Summer Camp for many - spankings and all. My time, however, was an escape from fundamentalist realities and other issues in family life, personal life, and in the Church, and the SEP experience for me was downright liberal to me - based on exactly how much that the teens got away with. I was shocked when I caught two high school workers making out on the anchor desk of the TV/Radio Studio, was even more shocked when on a voyageur canoe trip the Counselors had us go up a hill for our bathroom - which was in clear view of the girl's bathroom in the valley! (I did my best not to look!!) Yet despite these and other contradictions to the Faith I invested every ounce of my time and effort into - SEP was an amazing event for a kid. 

Every moment of my day was filled to the brim with activity. From basketball to volleyball, from windsurfing (or trying to) to television and radio, to softball - from morning to evening it was constant go, go, and go again. The team, led by Dr. Kermit Nelson, would constantly play music meant to "build us up" in teamwork - such as "The Olympic Spirit" by John Williams when we walked into Orientation, to "One Moment in Time" by Whitney Houston. We'd spend our time learning to dance with Rex De Le Pena (a college student) with the song "I Never Walk Alone" by Huey Lewis and the News. And we'd hear "Sail Away" by Enya more times than we could count. This isn't to say it was always Armstrong-Land at SEP. Boyz II Men's "Motown Philly" was always playing on the Camp Radio Station KSEP. (It WAS the Early 90s, after all!) And I will NEVER forget when I woke up one morning staring directly into a counselor's open fly where a flacid Johnson was accidentally exposed. (I am positive this was a complete accident. I turned away fast as we turned away from Christmas at the time!) (No, I'm not saying who this person was!)

We had Christian living classes. We were constantly told that God's Way Works. We'd go into the Gymnasium every Friday Night for hymn sings, or to the Fellowship area for Fireside Chats, or chat with a Dorm Parent. I got to meet people at SEP we all hear about now... Gerald Weston (I have some stories about this dude), Bernie Schnippert, Curtis May, among many others. But if there was one thing we NEVER discussed at SEP was Jesus. 

Sure, we'd hear from Carl McNair about respect and using the names Mr. and Mrs. frequently. We'd hear from Dr. Nelson about this thing about Negative Ions and if there is one place in all the world we would want to be it was "RIGHT HERE" - we'd all yell in unison. We'd hear from other leading pastors (such as Greg Sargeant) about many teen issues. But we were never taught at SEP about Jesus. 

When Gary talks about Jesus Christ as the "Inconvenient Dude" who was hardly ever mentioned - either then, or now, in the Church - he was exactly right, at least in my experience. And at SEP, there was so much going on that Jesus seemed completely irrelevant. We'd certainly know it if we did something wrong - like no side hugs for greater than 3 seconds with a member of the opposite sex, or accidentally held hands (!) - or called a college kid by their first name (!!!) - or did something innocuously wrong on the Sabbath. But never was a "Christian Living" class about the One who was supposedly the center of our Joy - Jesus Christ. Not even once. Jesus may have been mentioned 'in passing" in a Sabbath Service, or in an opening or closing prayer. The truth of it is, none of us kids even cared about Jesus because we had never been introduced to Him. We simply were there to have fun. And for that, the Church did a phenomenal job of providing that. 

SEP holds a dear place in my heart to this day. It's a conflicted heart, knowing what I know now about the Church, it's origins, and it's background and especially it's founder. Looking at Google Earth at the former Campus - abandoned and desolate save a dorm or two left over and the Gymnasium - must give ex-church members the same feelings when they look at the Pasadena Campus (or what is left of it). Yet, it comprises a moment in time when a kid could be a kid. I met my first real crush and first love there (that did not unfortunately work out years later), made some decent buddies, and had some bad memories too for various reasons. But it was a place that constantly invades my dreams to this day - because they succeeded in making me feel welcomed and accepted for the most part.

How much better it would have been if they had introduced Jesus, that inconvenient dude, to us kids at SEP that year. But we were far too busy judging each other on how we were supposed to keep the Sabbath. That was an argument I won't forget, nor shall I ever forget SEP. I breathe a deep sigh of fond memories thinking about those summers in Orr, Minnesota, and occasionally, even drip a tear or two. 

And I'm sure I am not alone in this retrospect. It is difficult to imagine, however, all those kids and where they are now considering everything that has happened in the last 25 to 30 years in our common heritage. I just wonder what that "Inconvenient Dude" Mr. Christ would have thought if He had even been mentioned there or had been focused on, instead of whether or not Chess or Cards were acceptable to play between the "Gentiles" and the "Converted" youth of the Church. 

I guess 2000 years later, some things never changed.

submitted by SHT

Dave Pack: Christ is...NO!....I AM THAT PROPHET!

COG Members Talk About The "Dark Years (1980-1990's)" Of The Church

This was on Facebook the other day and illustrates another example of why the Armstrong Church of God movement is doomed to utter destruction.  When the current churches cannot even educate their 20 - 30-year-olds about its past history, then there is no hope for them. 

Actually, on second thought, I am GLAD the church is filled with these kinds of people.  It ensures the utter destruction of the churches! It's like reading the COG version of Dumb and Dumberer!

reprinted with permission...enjoy!

About 5 years ago, I came across a group named; "Cult Survivors of WCG/GCI the Dark Years". Most all the members were born during the 80--90's. I never posted there. It vanished a few months later. I copied some of the conversations in the group. I spent some time this morning removing names and replacing them with numbers. I ran out of time but will post more later. Enjoy. 

100; "Was Herbert Armstrong a minister or member? I heard he was terrible."

101; "Herbert, was ordained by Tkach Sr, in the mid 1970's. He split with the church in the mid 1980's. I think he died or something happened to him. He's not with GCI anymore."

102; "My mother went with Rod Meredith's church. I think Armstrong is a minister in Meredith's church." 

101; "Meredith is Herbert's grandfather."

100; "You're right 101, I remember now. Thanks."

Admin; "Armstrong was NOT related to Meredith! He was pastor of the Big Sandy local church. He died the year I was born 1986."

100; "Admin, thanks for setting the record straight. Wow, you really lived during the dark years in the cult. Thank you for setting up this group as a place to share our deep wounds we received in the cult."

*******************************************************

104; "This group is clueless about the old teachings. Why not just create a site called the Clueless of WCG/GCI?"

Admin; "104; you're a troll and will be removed from the group. I was born in 1986. I've lived through the strictest period in the cult."

100: "Why do trolls come into a victim's group then try to hurt our minds with their BS?"

Admin; "Some idiots get their jollies doing it. He's gone now."

100; "he reminded me of the other troll from last week. Telling everyone they used to pay three tithes. What a hoot! Nobody could afford to pay that. Trying to play us for fools."

101; "trolls spins things just to get a reaction."

105; "Admin, I want to thank you for providing a safe place so we can get facts."

*******************************************************

106; "Radio Church of God was it connected to WCG/GCI?

102; "Yes, when they were doing the broadcast on Radio that was the name they went by. Then they changed it to Plain Truth Ministries.

Admin; "102 & 106, It was also called the "World Tomorrow".

102; "I forgot about the WT."

************************************************************

106; "Wasn't there another Armstrong preacher that was killed in a car wreck?"

Admin; "Garner Ted was his name he was Herbert's son."

107; "Did Tkach ordain him too?"

Admin; "Herbert ordained him."

107; "A father ordaining his own son? How strange. Did Tkach or the church board approve it?

Admin; "107, I'll check on that." 

"The COG has a major marketing problem."

Ever since the Worldwide Church of God imploded into hundreds of splinter groups, the Armstrong Churches of God have had major marketing issues in getting their message out to the world.  UCG and LCG slap themselves on the back by boasting about programs on Roku and other streaming devices and quote outrageous figures of "potential" viewers as if they are actual viewers.  Millions of people do NOT tune in to their programs.  Most just skip past or watch a couple minutes to get an idea on what the app is about and then move on when they see it is a religious program.

None of the ACOG have ever been able to figure out how to appeal to the younger generation. Certain mainline churches have found that niche and draw in thousands of millennials, GenX, GenY, GenZ, to worship services, but not one single ACOGever has.  And, why should they?  What do any of the ACOG have to offer that is of value?

When a person lives in a crazy world with potential upheavals just a phone swipe away, why would anyone want to park their butt in a 2-hour service where the minister is constantly talking about death and damnation soon to hit the world, about being zealous in order to become vindictive Pharisees,  or listening to a crooked Chief Overseer rail on in a sermon filled with 30-40 DIFFERENT subjects?  Who needs that?

I’m an elder millennial BB (born in 80s), ex COG, and the last generation who witnessed WCG as kids. 

The COG has a major marketing problem. How do you make appealing doctrines like BI that go against genetics?  

How do you keep talking about the return of Christ and the end times without addressing living in harmony in the modern world?

Homosexuals are continually railed against but many have co-workers, acquaintances, or dare I say friends who are gay. 

Also as a generation who has witnessed graphic design, special effects, and cutting edge technology. Telecasts of all kinds look cheesy, their messages are not exciting and do not hold our attention. 

How are two hour services still a thing? Cut that in half lol

What is new and innovative in Armstrongism? Not much at all.

Also, millennials have their issues but in my experience Baby Boomers are the most entitled group as they are receiving the most entitlements currently. As a generation we’re passionate, adaptable, thoughtful, and harder to sell on things. 

Especially mass market products like Armstrongism and Applebee’s.

"Angry Kitchen Table False Prophet Lashes Out At All Church of God Groups"

"The only thing the church does is train the future princes and princesses."

Anonymous in a comment said to me: 

"The only thing the church does is train the future princes and princesses."

I think I probably read that about ten times - each time, letting it sink in the Armstrong opinion (or at the very least, this commentator) of what the Church's role is in this world. It's something I've heard before, but not as succinctly stated as this very blunt admission of what Armstrong supporters believe the role of the Church is. 

I mean, it makes sense to the Armstrong Apologist. The teaching has always been that the Church is just a form of a college - to train future princes and princesses and that everyone else in the world will get their chance letter. The Church then has been reduced to a very elite academy for the extremely few who "get it". 

Apparently, this, in this world, in this generation, in this time, is the only purpose of the Church. Sure, it makes sense to them. After all, the Gospel, to them, had been suppressed for over  1900 years until Herbert came on the scene. Everyone else simply is not a concern because they'll be worked with later, so it's perfectly acceptable to ignore them now, and not worry about any of them now. They could never get it anyway, so why even try? The Church, after all, is only for those IN the Church, not those outside of the Church. 

After all, everyone else in this world simply doesn't matter, because the Church isn't for them at all. Apparently, the Church is just a physical organization in a world ruled by Satan of just an infinitesimal amount of true Christians whose only purpose in this world is to be trained to someday help them all.... later. Never now. Because they're all cut off. 

Yes, the Church, according to Armstrongism, is simply an Academy - a boot camp to the Millennium. Well, this would explain why the expectations are so low and the meat is so skimpy. You can only go through the same textbooks so many times over and over again year after year after year. It's the only college that you never really graduate from, just rehashing classes and seminars and more classes year after year after year, being promised a "graduation" in just three to five years but always being held back and never really getting the diploma, while you keep paying tuition over and over again year after year after year. 

After all, this is the only reason the Church exists, right? 

submitted by SHT

Dave Pack: What Will Happen If You Leave The Church

PCG: Lil' Stevie to the rescue!

Gerald Flurry's declining health due to heart problems and other health issues is causing Flurry to being Lil"Stevie, the heir apparent and top "evangelist" of the Philadelphia Church of God, home from his escapades in England.  Lil "Stevie hightailed it to England once they bought Edstone House in order to start another mini-me college dedicated to Herb Armstrong.

Wayne Turgeon, one of the more despised men in PCG is heading off to monitor the campus in England while Lil'Stevie performs his duties. Students should be prepared for the heavy arm of legalism to come pounding down on them before too long.

After the recent epic failure of Flurry traveling  Israel where even he did not know why he was there, and the drop in income that PCG is suffering under, Lil'Steveie will be assuming the public face of the personal appearance campaigns.

With the boondoggle personal jet and the millions being dumped on coconuts in Armstrong Auditorium, PCG is struggle to stay afoot.  Lil Stevie is being looked at to inspire members to give more and to lead the public into joining as co-workers or to become members where their tithe money will quickly be sucked out of them.

It remains to be seen which direction the Philadelphia Church of God will go when Gerald dies.

Angry Kitchen Table False Prophet Lashes Out At All Church of God Groups

Imagine how lonely life must be to sit at home in your kitchen and crank out endless long articles about how awful other Church of God groups are because they refuse to listen to the mindless rants of a man who wants to burden down members with more pharisaical laws than the ones they are already keeping. After making a demand earlier this year upon all Church of God members that they MUST keep a seven day Days of Unleavened Bread at a feast site,  in which he was totally ignored, he is now lashing out at all of the reprobates in the various COG groups.

The purpose of the Festivals of God has been frustrated by today’s Ekklesia, because they misuse God’s Festivals.  

First  they refuse to keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread for God’s commanded full seven days, second they keep the Fall Feast of Tabernacles for the seven days but they do so improperly, then they pollute the High Holy Days and weekly Sabbaths, and finally they keep these festivals on dates other than the dates which God has commanded. 

These Festivals of God were intended to be occasions when people could gather to hear the priesthood/ministry teach the Word of God, which is what we claim to do today, but do we really?   

Can you imagine seven days of having to sit there and listen to Chief Pharisee James Malm pontificate on how he thinks the letter of the law should be kept! Ghastly days! The crackling flames of the lake of fire would be a perfect respite!

Doing the Homework: The Book That Started My Journey Out of Bible Literalism

Anonymous 3:24 PM said...

 “My personal observation is that those who worked long and hard in school, do well in their Christian walk. Those who didn't study and do their homework, continue the pattern for the rest of their lives. ..... or they will become spiritual failures. Then they will come to Banned, posting that there is no God and that the bible is not His inspired word.”

Spong was born in Charlotte, North Carolina, and educated in public schools there. He attended the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where he was elected to the Phi Beta Kappa honor society and graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree in 1952. He received his Master of Divinity degree from the Virginia Theological Seminary in 1955. He has had honorary Doctor of Divinity degrees conferred on him by Virginia Theological Seminary and Saint Paul's College, Virginia, as well as an honorary Doctor of Humane Letters conferred by Muhlenberg College in Pennsylvania.

In 2005, he wrote: "[I have] immerse[d] myself in contemporary Biblical scholarship at such places as Union Theological Seminary in New York City, Yale Divinity School, Harvard Divinity School and the storied universities in Edinburgh, Oxford and Cambridge."^[2]

Spong served as rector of St. Joseph's Church in Durham, North Carolina, from 1955 to 1957; rector of Calvary Parish, Tarboro, North Carolina, from 1957 to 1965; rector of St. John's Church in Lynchburg, Virginia, from 1965 to 1969; and rector of St. Paul's Church in Richmond, Virginia, from 1969 to 1976. He has held visiting positions and given lectures at major American theological institutions, most prominently at Harvard Divinity School. He retired in 2000. As a retired bishop, he is a member of the Episcopal Church's House of Bishops.^[3] During his tenure as Bishop of Newark, confirmed communicants in the diocese virtually halved, from 44,423 in 1978, to 23,073 in 1996.

Spong describes his own life as a journey from the literalism and conservative theology of his childhood to an expansive view of Christianity.

Book Overview

A global and pioneering leader of progressive Christianity and the bestselling author of Why Christianity Must Change or Die and Eternal Life explains why a literal reading of the Gospels is actually heretical, and how this mistaken notion only entered the church once Gentiles had pushed out all the Jewish followers of Jesus. A man who has consciously and deliberately walked the path of Christ, John Shelby Spong has lived his entire life inside the Christian Church. In this profound and considered work, he offers a radical new way to look at the gospels today as he shows just how deeply Jewish the Christian Gospels are and how much they reflect the Jewish scriptures, history, and patterns of worship. Pulling back the layers of a long-standing Gentile ignorance, he reveals how the church's literal reading of the Bible is so far removed from these original Jewish authors' intent that it is an act of heresy. Using the Gospel of Matthew as a guide, Spong explores the Bible's literary and liturgical rootsits grounding in Jewish culture, symbols, icons, and storytelling traditionto explain how the events of Jesus' life, including the virgin birth, the miracles, the details of the passion story, and the resurrection and ascension, would have been understood by both the Jewish authors of the various gospels and by the Jewish audiences for which they were originally written. Spong makes clear that it was only after the church became fully Gentile that readers of the Gospels took these stories to be factual, distorting their original meaning. In Biblical Literalism: A Gentile Heresy, Spong illuminates the gospels as never before and provides a better blueprint for the future than where the church's leaden and heretical reading of the story of Jesus has led usone that allows the faithful to live inside the Christian story in the modern world.

"As far as the evolutionary debate is concerned, it is really over, and if the religious community does not know that Darwin has already won, they are simply not abreast of the times. Only in the South do I still hear people debating for Creationism."

"I wish you well. However, survival rate in that context, please know, is not high"

Church of the Eternal God and Bwana Thiel: People Who Fall Away Immediately Start Eating Pork

The self-appointed apostle and Elijah of the improperly named "continuing" Church of God Bob is lashing out at other Church of God members who went with other splinter groups.

The doubly-blessed one quotes a letter from the Church of the Eternal God about "why" when people "fall away" they start eating pork and doing other fun things.

Over the years, when members disassociated themselves from the Church, they immediately began to eat pork, celebrate Christmas and Easter, and reject the observance of the weekly and annual Sabbaths. We ask again, how could it happen? 

The apostle Paul wondered about the same phenomenon. He phrases his puzzling observations in these terms in Galatians 1:6-7: “I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.” 

Christ warned in the parable of the sower that some would hear and immediately receive the word with joy, but because they have no root in themselves, they only endure for a while and when problems come, they immediately stumble and leave (Matthew 13:20-21). Others may hear the word but don’t really understand it (even though they may think that they do), and so Satan comes and immediately snatches away what was sown in their hearts (Matthew 13:19; Mark 4:15). In all these cases, their departure from the Truth comes quickly and suddenly. 

When someone detaches himself and cuts himself off from Christ as the vine, he will wither away (John 15:1-6). This process occurs quickly. Christ showed us how quickly this can happen when He cursed the unfruitful fig tree. We read that “immediately the fig tree withered away” (Matthew 21:19), so that the disciples asked, “How did the fig tree wither away so soon?” (verse 20).  CEG 

Then the holistic dreamy Chief Overseer, Bob the Elijah writes:

Yes, many quickly fell away from the truth... 

But sadly, most who did not fall away completely from the truth, chose to ignore certain biblical principles and priorities and settled with becoming independent or otherwise affiliating with Laodicean leaders.

What does Elijah Bob think he is? Is he not independent?  Did he not set up his own group? Did he not lead people to ignore biblical principles when they started to follow him? Is he not a "Laodicean" leader? I do not doubt that his African followers are sincere seekers of God who thought they were doing the right thing when they hitched their wagons to his doomed train, but due to their desire to follow a human leader, they joined up with a wayward Laodicean leader that will ultimately lead them to their doom.

Bwana Bob really needs to eat some bacon, it would calm his hysterics down some.