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With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Was this a recent sermon or an old one from several years ago? I'm just wondering because I would like to know when my spouse plans to head to Ohio. I have some things that need done before they leave. I'm almost to the point I wish they would leave because I don't do so well with constant uncertainty. Just go already, sounds terrible I know.
"You think God would let me or anyone in my role foul that up?" Ummm, sure. If the past is any indication it seems that Dave's God would definitely allow him to foul it all up. In fact, Dave's God is once again letting Dave foul it all up. That's a good thing! :)
Bible prophecy is so ambiguous that is open to any & all sorts of interpretation. Anybody who claims to have the monopoly on "truth" should be a warning to the poor souls that would dare to follow such a devious person.
6:15 AM I understand how you feel. I have been dealing with this Dave Quack business for a long time. This site is my COGanon. I hear that he is going broke but not yet. I expect my spouse to finally accept the fact that Mr.quack has been totally wrong several times, but nope. Now I just hope that dave passes away soon, from some unnatural debilitating disease, but he keeps going to doctors for cure then thanks his inept god for the miracle. So, like al-anon, I have learned to not be codependent. But I must admit that I'm not sure if it's a case of cult groupie, mentally ill, or just a dumb ass. I don't pry anymore so not sure if this is recent or not.
11:04 They won't be going broke for awhile after what my spouse sent in this year. He says it doesn't matter if the church is wrong because "after all, no one is perfect and God can work through anyone." Biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard. I no longer think of them as christian or as having any trace of the holy spirit. I think if Dave passed away the members would find another group to join up with anyway so it doesn't really matter. This is also my COGanon as well. Is there anyone who could say how old this is?
@ 2:20PM, how does your husband answer Deuteronomy 18:22?
Jesus Christ was humble enough to say "I don't know" when He was asked questions to which he didn't know the answer. David Christ, on the other hand, has more than once made firm and specific predictions. If Deuteronomy 18:22 doesn't apply to him it could not possibly apply to anyone, ever.
Can someone here help us understand "Wadsworth" in light of Bible prophecy? --- Yes, I can help with that. Wadsworth, Ohio, was named for a man whose last name was Wadsworth. He was a prominent military officer who was a captain in the Revolutionary War and a Major General in the War of 1812. He was also a wealthy land speculator in Ohio. But here's the prophetic part: General Wadsworth's first name was --- (drum roll) --- Elijah! Yes, Elijah, as in "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord"! Elijah! That's it! That's the connection! That's why Dave Pack's church is in Wadsworth! I don't know if even Dave realizes this, but he should. And his church should have a day commemorating General Elijah Wadsworth, on which day all members send in a few extra dollars to the church in memory of the man.
Anonymous on April 3, 2018 at 11:04 AM said...“I have been dealing with this Dave Quack business for a long time. This site is my COGanon. I hear that he is going broke but not yet.”
All his followers have to go broke first before Dave does.
Also, don't forget that Wadsworth is the home of the Blue Tip Matches. This prophetic item means that fire symbolically symbolized by a striking match, will be sent forth from Wadsworth by Dave, as the Witless Witness, and by his visiting "christ" as they bring the fires of tribulation upon the world.
Anonymous on April 3, 2018 at 3:18 PM said...“Can someone here help us understand "Wadsworth" in light of Bible prophecy? Thank you in advance!”
David Pack came in partial fulfillment of the Holy Scriptures that quoted Jesus as saying that many false prophets would come and deceive many. Along with all the other wolves, Dave came also to vomit up his own wadsworth.
Since the general area is called Akron and at the time he preached angels would gather Gods people and bring them to Jerusalem from greek "akron", he quoted mark 1 and matthew 1 and further tied significance from the area to prophetic events to come. everyone nearly shat themselves when they heard it.
This reminds me of the scripture that says; O WADSWORTH, WADSWORTH, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her chicks under her wings, and ye would not!
Much can be said about Mr. Pack's prophetic pronouncements and supposed biblical precision, but the biggest question is what type of man is he and how far will he go off track.
The character behind the actions tells much of the story. That character could be broken down in a simple way as three main character flaws. These three flaws could be, when part of a certain person's constitution lead that person into the realm of scary. The proverbial three headed monster of Dave Pack is: number one self exaltation. This man has taken so many titles and roles in the bible that there is not much left for God to do. When a man in his position has no fear of taking biblical titles and roles how could he stop himself from first stating that he was a type of Christ and then later claiming to take a role of Christ which by extension was nothing short of but a claim of himself as Christ.
Number two is severe impatience. The results of this are everywhere and they are not pretty. This is the out of control driver that everyone should take notice of.
Number three is the twisted need of being acknowledged and legitimatized in the eyes of the COG's and the world. For those of the COGs he has the "Greatest Untold Story" and for the world he has a church that he claims is the pillar and ground of the truth. Both are interchangeable towards whatever audience they are offered to.
The fuel to make this three headed monster a reality and noticeable is other peoples' money. The obsession of and for money has led this man to butcher biblical scripture and strong arm with fear many church members to his benefit alone. That obsession willfully breaks up marriages and makes destitute the poor and elderly so that he can legitimatize himself with buildings and grounds and television books and magazines.
What will be the end story of this man and his church? It will be told, but in the meantime those in the RCG and COGs and those not, need to be in hyper-watch themselves of the man-god Dave Pack.
The scriptures are very clear about what contempt of God is: oppressing the poor. Proverbs 14:31 says that oppressing the poor (which is, literally, to keep someone in hardship by the unjust use of authority) is literally contempt of God. What is contempt? being disobedient or disrespectful to a court and its officers - or in this case, God. Yet, that seems to be exactly what many who proclaim Christ do. Whether it is oppressing poor by mandating tithes which keep them in hardship, demanding assets which keeps them or causes hardship, it's oppression.
But what is going on with this group is far more than just oppression. Has anyone ever looked up all of the synonyms for oppression? Here they are:
When someone, or some group, deliberately oppresses the poor, it is brutal and it is abuse. It is also cruel. It's about autocratic control.
For any "Christian group", whether it's mainstream Christianity, COG's, or whatever it is, to oppress the poor whether by demanding tithing which causes hardship to be harder, or any other form of income or asset which causes hardship, is contempt, because it oppresses by unjust authority. You cannot, on one hand, claim Tithing is from God, or taking of Assets is from God, if it causes hardship and oppression on the poor. That's spiritual abuse.
The second part of Proverbs 14:31 is clearer: Whoever is KIND to the needy honors God. That means showing compassion, and understanding. Helping them, caring for them, NOT taking FROM them. The church is to help the poor, not take from the poor. When churches say to the poor that not giving to them is robbing God and quote Malachi to support their views, when the money that they take from the poor in the name of tithes is used to support their group - it's oppression and in my view, contempt.
The fact that there are people out there who show contempt to God by using unjust authority to take from the poor for their own purposes is everything God is not, and never has been. I think CAUSING destitution and causing the poor is worse than not helping those who are already poor too.
Imagine that it's the Great Depression. There's a lone shack in the middle of the plains with a man, wife and child. They struggle to make ends meet because of dust storms and really horrible weather conditions for their crops. They are hardly making it as it is. Then a wealthy pastor comes in, and says that God told them everything they have is theirs. When the couple object, he tells them if they don't give everything they have to them, it's robbing God. Because the wealthy pastor said his words came from God, they're scared and give everything to the wealthy pastor. And now, they are left with nothing while the loot gets taken and robbed.
It's really no different then when those idiots call the phone and convince people that they're some sort of official agency and say that they have to give them their credit card number or something bad will happen. That's a scam, and people usually know to hang up and not listen to it. People know better. Tragically, with religious scammers that are out there in droves (televangelists, health-wealthers, and con-artists), using God's name to oppress, people all too often fall for the scam, and give their info to the scammer, and then hang up the phone and say "oh well, people make mistakes, so if it's a mistake, God will handle it", and put their bank info right by the phone for the next caller.
IF people wise up with phone scammers, why do they allow themselves to be conned by religious scammers like televangelists and false preachers so easy????
To be exact. If what is reported on this blog is true than Pack looks like a scammer.
Yesterday I saw a documentary that showed that a movement among millenials is propogating common. (meaning one grass clipper per block or 3 vaccuums cleaners and sharing instead of owning)
I guess ideas like that are a fad until the economy picks up or the ice starts melting faster than expected, destroying our chances for survival. From that perspective Pack looks like a totally hipster hippy type.
Dave Pack, now backtracking he is Elijah, say's God will either reveal it to be him or it has to be someone else.
He's already flopped on several major dates, has taught that Christ is coming first to Wadsworth for 110 years, then move to Jerusalem after angels destroy Jerusalem and rebuild it, taught that a third temple will be built, there will be a foolish shepherd, then the man of sin who springs from Jewish leadership, has taught the members will rule in the first dominion as resplendent powerful humans a tiny bit above angels but not yet God, be given crowns but changed to God-beings later after ruling with Jesus in Jerusalem, taught thay they can still fail, the new heavens and earth come before the millenium and not after, HWA will be ressurected and lead Jerusalem and his role will be minimized. The splinters will be infiltrated and their arms turned to a crispy numb for stealing tithe, the rcg will be infiltrated also by minions of the foolish shepherd, Mass healing will occur, and so much more.
How the hell can these people accept this guy claiming all these positions and then saying oops sorry I was wrong. Do none of them believe the instructions of the bible they claim to honor? I hear them parrot his excuses, they clearly see HIM as their god.
Anonymous on April 5, 2018 at 8:19 AM said... “Dave Pack, now backtracking he is Elijah, say's God will either reveal it to be him or it has to be someone else.”
Dave Pack already made up “130 proofs” that he is Elijah. What can he do now, make up “260 proofs” that he is not?
Dave Pack, now backtracking he is Elijah, say's God will either reveal it to be him or it has to be someone else.
This is a man who wrote a large book defending Herbert W. Armstrong as being the Elijah and in that book he fiercely excoriated Gerald Flurry for having claimed the same. The one particular statement that stood out in the book was; "How could God allow an Apostle (HWA) to be so deceived as to not know that he was Elijah". Fast forward to 2016 and low and behold, Dave Pack is now the Elijah and incorporated himself as Elijah over and over again in his "Greatest untold story" sermon series.
So now maybe he is wavering a little on whether he is Elijah or not. So I guess we can conclude that God allowed HWA to be deceived concerning being Elijah as well as Gerald Flurry and now maybe Dave Pack himself. But now all in the RCG and beyond are to believe that God will now reveal accurately to Dave Pack himself who the real Elijah is. As one "Baptist" relative said to me after being told this story - "He is making God as stupid as he is".
Unfortunately the foolishness continues in the church that is the pillar and ground of the wrong!
36 comments:
From the "Good News/ Bad News" department for Dave Pack...
THE GOOD NEWS... Jesus has comeback!
THE BAD NEWS... He's in Salt Lake City!
David Pack, Superstar!
Where are those who, for you, have sacrificed?
David Pack, Superstar!
Does anyone still believe you're who you say you are?
...
Was this a recent sermon or an old one from several years ago? I'm just wondering because I would like to know when my spouse plans to head to Ohio. I have some things that need done before they leave. I'm almost to the point I wish they would leave because I don't do so well with constant uncertainty. Just go already, sounds terrible I know.
That "I'm 1000% sure" pretty much insures another failed and mistaken idea if you go by past performance in such matters.
"You think God would let me or anyone in my role foul that up?" Ummm, sure. If the past is any indication it seems that Dave's God would definitely allow him to foul it all up. In fact, Dave's God is once again letting Dave foul it all up. That's a good thing! :)
David Pack, just like Gerald Flurry, are 2 morons who wouldn't know how to interpret prophecy if it slapped them in the face!
Dave’s God allowed Dave’s idol (HWA) to foul it up, so why not the cheap dimestore imitation?
BB
Bible prophecy is so ambiguous that is open to any & all sorts of interpretation. Anybody who claims to have the monopoly on "truth" should be a warning to the poor souls that would dare to follow such a devious person.
I wish someone could create a list of utter failures by Dave Pack.
6:15 AM I understand how you feel. I have been dealing with this Dave Quack business for a long time. This site is my COGanon. I hear that he is going broke but not yet. I expect my spouse to finally accept the fact that Mr.quack has been totally wrong several times, but nope. Now I just hope that dave passes away soon, from some unnatural debilitating disease, but he keeps going to doctors for cure then thanks his inept god for the miracle. So, like al-anon, I have learned to not be codependent. But I must admit that I'm not sure if it's a case of cult groupie, mentally ill, or just a dumb ass. I don't pry anymore so not sure if this is recent or not.
To The person who wants to know if this is recent, yes. The Christ to his campus and the suggest this spring garbage is a few weeks old.
11:04 They won't be going broke for awhile after what my spouse sent in this year. He says it doesn't matter if the church is wrong because "after all, no one is perfect and God can work through anyone." Biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard. I no longer think of them as christian or as having any trace of the holy spirit. I think if Dave passed away the members would find another group to join up with anyway so it doesn't really matter. This is also my COGanon as well. Is there anyone who could say how old this is?
At least they won't have to travel all the way to Guyana...
-- Leopold
We have heard different church leaders wax eloquent about the etymological significance of "Pasadena" and "Arroyo Grande" and "Edmond."
Can someone here help us understand "Wadsworth" in light of Bible prophecy? Thank you in advance!
@ 2:20PM, how does your husband answer Deuteronomy 18:22?
Jesus Christ was humble enough to say "I don't know" when He was asked questions to which he didn't know the answer. David Christ, on the other hand, has more than once made firm and specific predictions. If Deuteronomy 18:22 doesn't apply to him it could not possibly apply to anyone, ever.
Dr. Richard Hurndell said...
Bible prophecy is so ambiguous that is open to any & all sorts of interpretation.
No...it's not.
TK
Super Dave...!!!!
(AKA Dave "Packalogical" lair)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nADJFmwoUIY
Can someone here help us understand "Wadsworth" in light of Bible prophecy? --- Yes, I can help with that. Wadsworth, Ohio, was named for a man whose last name was Wadsworth. He was a prominent military officer who was a captain in the Revolutionary War and a Major General in the War of 1812. He was also a wealthy land speculator in Ohio. But here's the prophetic part: General Wadsworth's first name was --- (drum roll) --- Elijah! Yes, Elijah, as in "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord"! Elijah! That's it! That's the connection! That's why Dave Pack's church is in Wadsworth! I don't know if even Dave realizes this, but he should. And his church should have a day commemorating General Elijah Wadsworth, on which day all members send in a few extra dollars to the church in memory of the man.
Anonymous on April 3, 2018 at 11:04 AM said...“I have been dealing with this Dave Quack business for a long time. This site is my COGanon. I hear that he is going broke but not yet.”
All his followers have to go broke first before Dave does.
Also, don't forget that Wadsworth is the home of the Blue Tip Matches. This prophetic item means that fire symbolically symbolized by a striking match, will be sent forth from Wadsworth by Dave, as the Witless Witness, and by his visiting "christ" as they bring the fires of tribulation upon the world.
Anonymous on April 3, 2018 at 3:18 PM said...“Can someone here help us understand "Wadsworth" in light of Bible prophecy? Thank you in advance!”
David Pack came in partial fulfillment of the Holy Scriptures that quoted Jesus as saying that many false prophets would come and deceive many. Along with all the other wolves, Dave came also to vomit up his own wadsworth.
You're welcome!
"I hear that he is going broke.."
Any more info on this? Leaks from the World Headquarters Wadsworth Admin ivory tower?
Since the general area is called Akron and at the time he preached angels would gather Gods people and bring them to Jerusalem from greek "akron", he quoted mark 1 and matthew 1 and further tied significance from the area to prophetic events to come. everyone nearly shat themselves when they heard it.
Historically Baal-zebub , Prince of Demons, is the god of Ekron (modern Akron:)
This reminds me of the scripture that says; O WADSWORTH, WADSWORTH, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her chicks under her wings, and ye would not!
Much can be said about Mr. Pack's prophetic pronouncements and supposed biblical precision, but the biggest question is what type of man is he and how far will he go off track.
The character behind the actions tells much of the story. That character could be broken down in a simple way as three main character flaws. These three flaws could be, when part of a certain person's constitution lead that person into the realm of scary. The proverbial three headed monster of Dave Pack is: number one self exaltation. This man has taken so many titles and roles in the bible that there is not much left for God to do. When a man in his position has no fear of taking biblical titles and roles how could he stop himself from first stating that he was a type of Christ and then later claiming to take a role of Christ which by extension was nothing short of but a claim of himself as Christ.
Number two is severe impatience. The results of this are everywhere and they are not pretty. This is the out of control driver that everyone should take notice of.
Number three is the twisted need of being acknowledged and legitimatized in the eyes of the COG's and the world. For those of the COGs he has the "Greatest Untold Story" and for the world he has a church that he claims is the pillar and ground of the truth. Both are interchangeable towards whatever audience they are offered to.
The fuel to make this three headed monster a reality and noticeable is other peoples' money. The obsession of and for money has led this man to butcher biblical scripture and strong arm with fear many church members to his benefit alone. That obsession willfully breaks up marriages and makes destitute the poor and elderly so that he can legitimatize himself with buildings and grounds and television books and magazines.
What will be the end story of this man and his church? It will be told, but in the meantime those in the RCG and COGs and those not, need to be in hyper-watch themselves of the man-god Dave Pack.
to 'What About THe Truth':
I believe your term 'strong arm' should be hyphenated.
Proverbs 14:31
Whoever oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.
Oppress: (Dictionary)
keep (someone) in subservience and hardship, especially by the unjust exercise of authority.
The scriptures are very clear about what contempt of God is: oppressing the poor. Proverbs 14:31 says that oppressing the poor (which is, literally, to keep someone in hardship by the unjust use of authority) is literally contempt of God. What is contempt? being disobedient or disrespectful to a court and its officers - or in this case, God. Yet, that seems to be exactly what many who proclaim Christ do. Whether it is oppressing poor by mandating tithes which keep them in hardship, demanding assets which keeps them or causes hardship, it's oppression.
But what is going on with this group is far more than just oppression. Has anyone ever looked up all of the synonyms for oppression? Here they are:
Abuse. Brutality. Coercion. Cruelty. Despotism. Dictatorship. Domination. Injustice. Maltreatment. Persecution. Suffering. Autocracy. Calamity. Compulsion. Conquering. Control. Fascism. Force. Harshness. Injury. Severity. Subjection. Torment. Abusiveness. Forcefulness. Iron hand. Martial Law. Overthrowing. Subduing. And Tyranny. (credit Thesaurus.com)
When someone, or some group, deliberately oppresses the poor, it is brutal and it is abuse. It is also cruel. It's about autocratic control.
For any "Christian group", whether it's mainstream Christianity, COG's, or whatever it is, to oppress the poor whether by demanding tithing which causes hardship to be harder, or any other form of income or asset which causes hardship, is contempt, because it oppresses by unjust authority. You cannot, on one hand, claim Tithing is from God, or taking of Assets is from God, if it causes hardship and oppression on the poor. That's spiritual abuse.
The second part of Proverbs 14:31 is clearer: Whoever is KIND to the needy honors God. That means showing compassion, and understanding. Helping them, caring for them, NOT taking FROM them. The church is to help the poor, not take from the poor. When churches say to the poor that not giving to them is robbing God and quote Malachi to support their views, when the money that they take from the poor in the name of tithes is used to support their group - it's oppression and in my view, contempt.
The fact that there are people out there who show contempt to God by using unjust authority to take from the poor for their own purposes is everything God is not, and never has been. I think CAUSING destitution and causing the poor is worse than not helping those who are already poor too.
Imagine that it's the Great Depression. There's a lone shack in the middle of the plains with a man, wife and child. They struggle to make ends meet because of dust storms and really horrible weather conditions for their crops. They are hardly making it as it is. Then a wealthy pastor comes in, and says that God told them everything they have is theirs. When the couple object, he tells them if they don't give everything they have to them, it's robbing God. Because the wealthy pastor said his words came from God, they're scared and give everything to the wealthy pastor. And now, they are left with nothing while the loot gets taken and robbed.
It's really no different then when those idiots call the phone and convince people that they're some sort of official agency and say that they have to give them their credit card number or something bad will happen. That's a scam, and people usually know to hang up and not listen to it. People know better. Tragically, with religious scammers that are out there in droves (televangelists, health-wealthers, and con-artists), using God's name to oppress, people all too often fall for the scam, and give their info to the scammer, and then hang up the phone and say "oh well, people make mistakes, so if it's a mistake, God will handle it", and put their bank info right by the phone for the next caller.
IF people wise up with phone scammers, why do they allow themselves to be conned by religious scammers like televangelists and false preachers so easy????
Oh I see this is a Pack topic.
To be exact. If what is reported on this blog is true than Pack looks like a scammer.
Yesterday I saw a documentary that showed that a movement among millenials is propogating common. (meaning one grass clipper per block or 3 vaccuums cleaners and sharing instead of owning)
I guess ideas like that are a fad until the economy picks up or the ice starts melting faster than expected, destroying our chances for survival. From that perspective Pack looks like a totally hipster hippy type.
nck
Dave Pack, now backtracking he is Elijah, say's God will either reveal it to be him or it has to be someone else.
He's already flopped on several major dates, has taught that Christ is coming first to Wadsworth for 110 years, then move to Jerusalem after angels destroy Jerusalem and rebuild it, taught that a third temple will be built, there will be a foolish shepherd, then the man of sin who springs from Jewish leadership, has taught the members will rule in the first dominion as resplendent powerful humans a tiny bit above angels but not yet God, be given crowns but changed to God-beings later after ruling with Jesus in Jerusalem, taught thay they can still fail, the new heavens and earth come before the millenium and not after, HWA will be ressurected and lead Jerusalem and his role will be minimized. The splinters will be infiltrated and their arms turned to a crispy numb for stealing tithe, the rcg will be infiltrated also by minions of the foolish shepherd, Mass healing will occur, and so much more.
How the hell can these people accept this guy claiming all these positions and then saying oops sorry I was wrong. Do none of them believe the instructions of the bible they claim to honor? I hear them parrot his excuses, they clearly see HIM as their god.
It Sickens me!
Anonymous on April 5, 2018 at 8:19 AM said... “Dave Pack, now backtracking he is Elijah, say's God will either reveal it to be him or it has to be someone else.”
Dave Pack already made up “130 proofs” that he is Elijah. What can he do now, make up “260 proofs” that he is not?
ANON 8:19 said:
Dave Pack, now backtracking he is Elijah, say's God will either reveal it to be him or it has to be someone else.
This is a man who wrote a large book defending Herbert W. Armstrong as being the Elijah and in that book he fiercely excoriated Gerald Flurry for having claimed the same. The one particular statement that stood out in the book was; "How could God allow an Apostle (HWA) to be so deceived as to not know that he was Elijah". Fast forward to 2016 and low and behold, Dave Pack is now the Elijah and incorporated himself as Elijah over and over again in his "Greatest untold story" sermon series.
So now maybe he is wavering a little on whether he is Elijah or not. So I guess we can conclude that God allowed HWA to be deceived concerning being Elijah as well as Gerald Flurry and now maybe Dave Pack himself. But now all in the RCG and beyond are to believe that God will now reveal accurately to Dave Pack himself who the real Elijah is. As one "Baptist" relative said to me after being told this story - "He is making God as stupid as he is".
Unfortunately the foolishness continues in the church that is the pillar and ground of the wrong!
8:19 How are you doing? Are you still in RCG, or where are you getting your info?
It sounds like Pack is getting more unstable all the time. Thanks for the update, just curious as an ex member what is going on there?
Dave now says Apostle Paul was wrong and HE is right and a magic mountain will come down
please spread this for all to see the garbage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXyThDXAga4
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