Commercial Break: Are The Elijah to Come Dr. Robert Thiel, The Elijah to Come Gerald Flurry, and Elijah to Come Dave Pack Using Their Bibles, Like a Crystal Ball, to Practice Fortune Telling???

"As I see it, YES"

MAGIC 8 BALL

Prophecy 

...or prediction, was one of the functions of the prophet. It has been defined as a "miracle of knowledge, a declaration or description or representation of something future, beyond the power of human sagacity to foresee, discern, or conjecture."

Prediction

A statement about what you think will happen in the future

"Fortune-telling is the practice of predicting information about a person's life.^[1] The scope of fortune-telling is in principle identical with the practice of divination. The difference is that divination is the term used for predictions considered part of a religious ritual, invoking deities or spirits, while the term fortune-telling implies a less serious or formal setting, even one of popular culture, where belief in occult workings behind the prediction is less prominent than the concept of suggestion, spiritual or practical advisory or affirmation.

Historically, Pliny the Elder describes use of the crystal ball in the 1st century CE by soothsayers ("crystallum orbis", later written in Medieval Latin by scribes as orbuculum).^[2]

Contemporary Western images of fortune-telling grow out of folkloristic reception of Renaissance magic, specifically associated with Romani people.^[1] During the 19th and 20th century, methods of divination from non-Western cultures, such as the I Ching, were also adopted as methods of fortune-telling in western popular culture.

An example of divination or fortune-telling as purely an item of pop culture, with little or no vestiges of belief in the occult, would be the Magic 8-Ball sold as a toy by Mattel, or Paul II, an octopus at the Sea Life Aquarium at Oberhausen used to predict the outcome of matches played by the Germany national football team.^[3]

There is opposition to fortune telling in Christianity, Islam, Baháʼísm and Judaism based on scriptural prohibitions against divination.

Terms for one who claims to see into the future include fortune teller, crystal-gazer, spaewife, seer, soothsayer, sibyl, clairvoyant, and prophet; related terms which might include this among other abilities are oracle, augur, and visionary.

Fortune telling is dismissed by the scientific community and scientific skeptics as being based on magical thinking and superstition

Critical analysis

Fortune telling is dismissed by the scientific community and skeptics as being based on magical thinking and superstition.

Skeptic Bergen Evans suggested that fortune telling is the result of a "naïve selection of something that have happened from a mass of things that haven't, the clever interpretation of ambiguities, or a brazen announcement of the inevitable."^[26] Other skeptics claim that fortune telling is nothing more than cold reading.^[27]

A large amount of fraud has occurred in the practice of fortune-telling.^[28]

Fortune telling and how it works raises many critical questions. For example, fortune-telling occurs through various methods such as psychic readings, tarot cards, and more. What is similar about many of these methods is that they are based on random phenomena. For example, astrologers believe that the movement of stars in the sky can have implications on one's life.^[29] In the case of tarot cards, people believe that images displayed on the cards have significant meanings on their lives. The problem is that there is a lack of evidence to support why such things, such as the stars, would have any implications on our lives.

Additionally, fortune-telling readings and predictions made by horoscopes, for example, are often general enough to apply to anyone. In cold reading, for example, readers often begin by stating general descriptions and continuing to make specifics based on the reactions they receive from the person whose life they are predicting.^[30] The tendency for people to deem general descriptions as being representative to themselves has been termed the Barnum effect and has been studied by psychologists for many years.^[31]

Nonetheless, even with a lack of evidence supporting the various methods of fortune-telling and the many frauds that have occurred by psychic readers, for example, fortune-telling continues to become popular around the world. There are many reasons for the appealing nature of fortune-telling such as that people often experience stress when there is uncertainty and thus seek to gain deeper insight into their future. 

It is certain-It is decidedly so-Without a doubt-Yes, definitely-You may rely on it-As I see it, yes-Most Likely-Signs point to yes-Most likely-Outlook Good-Reply hazy, try again -Ask again later-Better not tell you now-Concentrate and ask again-Cannot Predict now-Don't count on it-My reply is No-My sources say NO-Outlook not good-Very doubtful

Church of God International Internal War Over COVID Continues

Delta Isolation

Facebook comment:

"This is what a luke warm church sounds like...sad to see a Church of God promoting the end time pharmakiea that deceives the nation's and makes the merchants of the world rich. 

Revelation is being fulfilled befor your eyes and you praise the beast that is rising. 

GOD help you when the False prophet and Lawless one arise."

CGI’s Civil War Continues!

The Church of God International recently posted another article by Jeff Reed about his personal experiences with Covid-19 on their website and on their Facebook homepage. In the article, Mr. Reed wrote: “I’ve been in isolation since testing positive for Covid last week. I am blessed to be vaccinated, so my symptoms were very mild. My God-given immune system had a blueprint for defeating this pathogen quickly. It felt like a head cold except less of an inconvenience. Head colds usually stay with me for up to two weeks, and this infection was gone in a day and a half. I continually praise God for His guidance and protection in my life. Understanding His Word can help us avoid and mitigate a lot of problems we face in life.”

He went on to share his reasoning for self-isolating: “I’m in isolation because it has been confirmed that a small percentage of vaccinated individuals can get mildly infected with the Delta variant and be contagious to others. I am one of those individuals, and I want to do all I can to protect those vulnerable to sickness and death. In the past few weeks, Covid has hit many hard in the Church of God. Many CGI congregations have also been affected.”

Readers will recall that Pastor Bill Watson’s Medina, Ohio congregation was hit particularly hard by the virus and has been at the center of the storm over Covid-19 within the church. In fact, the reaction to Mr. Reed’s last article was so negative from that direction (Ohio) that the elder decided to take a much softer and more humorous stance in this post.

He continued: “As an elder in the Church, I have no expertise or business giving anyone medical advice. We believe the choice to receive medical care or vaccination is solely left up to the individual. I did speak to a Church elder who is a medical professional, and his warning to the Church of God is to take this Delta variant seriously. It is very contagious and is spreading quickly among the unvaccinated population of our country.” This comment was followed by a retelling of the joke about the man in the house in the midst of a flood who refused the help of a jeep, boat and helicopter that God had sent to rescue him (all the time professing his faith that God would save him).

However, even with this softer voice and a touch of humor, the rancor from the other side was not restrained. The most virulent comments appeared on Facebook. One commentator wrote: “I am out, I have been following the Church of God International for over 25 years … God I pray for the Christ followers all over the world, to See what is happening. God bless” Another wrote: “Amen, I am not taking their shot!! I am almost 65 years old, praise God, If more would trust in god and put their faith and trust in him and his hands!! There would be no sicknesses or diseases!! Praise the Lord, he is the only truth, way and light in this dark world! He is the true life, unto man!! We are only passing through. With his blood covering us!! I praise you JESUS!! And I thank you for your protection!! Amen!!”

And, if those comments weren’t bad enough, there were many more in the thread that were even more egregious! One man wrote: “This is what a lukewarm church sounds like...sad to see a Church of God promoting the end time pharmakiea that deceives the nation's and makes the merchants of the world rich. Revelation is being fulfilled before your eyes and you praise the beast that is rising. GOD help you when the False prophet and Lawless one arise.” Another lady observed: “Read Psalm 91. God is our healer. One has no idea how they would have dealt with covid without the vaccine. Doctors have told me all my life there is nothing you can do for a virus but let it run its course. The vaccine is NOT stopping people from getting covid any more than mask wearing is.” And this one was priceless: “I THOUGHT THE SABBATH KEEPING CHURCHS OF GOD WERE INSTRUCTING BREATHEREN NOT TO TAKE MURDERED, WEE ABORTED BABYS TISSUES, /// VACINES INTO THERE BODYS.......” (Many of the spelling and grammatical errors were retained to demonstrate the level of the discourse on the topic).

Poor Jeff! My own thoughts and comments were a little different from the ones quoted above. The comments which I posted on CGI’s website were as follows:

“May God speed your complete recovery from the infection, and may He bless you for your care and concern for those around you. I very much enjoyed that joke you related - it has been around in various forms for many years, and the spiritual lesson is sound. Our faith must allow for whatever means God chooses to address our needs, and we must be willing to admit that God's help may not always arrive in the way that we expected it to appear. God's thinking is superior to ours, and we must not fall into the trap of trying to make/imagine Him in our own image (we are a reflection of Him, not vice versa).

Opinions are great - everybody has them, but truth is supreme! God expects Christians to be humble and care for each other. Moreover, as long as the laws and demands of human government do not contradict God's laws and will, the New Testament makes plain (Christ and Paul) that God expects His people to respect and follow those dictates. God also makes clear in Scripture that He expects His people to take care of themselves and exhibit proper care and concern for those around them.

Public health measures (vaccines, masks, distancing, cleaning) are designed to mitigate the impact of disease - not to curtail rights or freedoms. Moreover, our failure to follow that guidance may be symptomatic of attitudes that are inappropriate in a Christian (willfulness, rebellion, haughtiness). There are numerous things that governments do to protect their citizens from harm (like requiring them to stop, yield or wear seat belts when riding in a car). We can refuse to follow those directives, but a number of very negative consequences may follow (like citations, crashes, injury, or death).

You are to be commended for the good example which you have set in this matter - an example that is consistent with sound Christian theology and teachings. Likewise, Mr. Vance Stinson is to be commended for giving voice to your perspective. I hope and pray that ALL of our brothers and sisters in Christ will take note of these examples and follow them. May God continue to bless us and help us through this current scourge.”

At any rate, let’s hope that the common sense and Christian love exhibited by Mr. Reed and Mr. Stinson prevails in CGI. The physical and spiritual lives of their membership may depend on it!

Lonnie Hendrix

UCG Struggles With COVID As It Prepares For Feast

Below is the latest letter to UCG members regarding COVID, the Feast, and about showing love to one another in the church.

The facts are plain. A fresh surge of coronavirus infections—driven by the Delta variant—has created a new set of challenges for much of the world. Its impact has been felt keenly within the Church of God community. Many of you know that Beyond Today TV host Gary Petty and his wife, Kim, both came down recently with the virus, as did a number of members in the Tennessee congregations they serve. Mr. Petty’s case grew severe, and he had to be hospitalized. 

 

Thankfully, he is scheduled to be released soon, but will require time to fully recover at home. As he told me by phone, his personal experience with COVID-19 confirms that it is “a bad disease.” None of us want to experience it. Other groups within the Church of God community report several cases—mild and severe alike—among members and ministers. This virus respects no human.

Like the Living Church of God, UCG is sending their children off to summer camps, even after one of its camps had some serious issues with children being infected. 

There are some issues that we need to consider over the coming weeks. I believe that God helped us all get through a successful camp season for our church youth. With the exception of one camp where there were many who came down with the virus, we mostly were spared. In addition to God’s amazing protection, no small measure of thanks goes to the intensive planning and execution of safety measures.

Kubik goes on to talk about members getting vaccinated and members who chose not to get vaccinated. Neither he claims is wrong, IF they have a good attitude.

What I am about to write about is a delicate and solemn subject, but one that we must face head on, especially as we near the Fall Festival season. I write here of the issue of COVID-19 precautions and safety measures, and yes, that includes the available vaccines. 

 

As well documented in our doctrinal study paper (streaming.ucg.org/files/papers/UCG-papers-Divine-Healing.pdf), the United Church of God believes in and teaches divine healing. The paper rightly states that “We will never understand in this life every step in the process which leads to the healing of our illnesses. We must rely on the clear scriptural statements for our doctrine . . . We believe that divine healing is a promise from God and we claim that promise through faith.” 

 

We also understand and positively teach that seeking medical treatment—including the administration of vaccines—represents a personal choice. We positively teach that it is not a sin to seek such services. 

 

During this year and a half of pandemic, we have all faced various trials and tests. We have watched and personally experienced the intense polarization of America and the politicization of virtually the entire spectrum of COVID-19 issues. When it comes to our members, our relationships, and our choices, what are we to do? 

 

Our direction is crystal clear! We read it every Passover evening, and it should be front and center in our everyday lives. Here’s what our Savior and coming King Jesus Christ proclaims to each one of us: “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another” (John 13:34-35, emphasis added throughout). 

 

In the Church, the issue is not about vaccines or whether or not someone wears a mask or takes other precautions. The issue is about attitude. 

 

We are to show love and respect. We are to love our neighbor as ourselves (Mark 12:31).

Throughout the COG movement right now there are bitter camps of pro-vaccination and anti-vaccination. The ant-vax COG members are adamant that those who get vaccinated are without faith and fail to trust God to keep them free of the pandemic and its variants or heal them if they get sick. This has been a COG tradition handed down for decades to the erroneous and at times dangerous attitude to avoid doctors and medical assistance. Certain COG movements look down upon anyone that has been to see a doctor and especially those who have gotten the vaccinations.

Kubik then goes on to say this:

Apart from those who are licensed physicians or other medical professionals within the United Church of God, we recognize that we are not medical experts. As a spiritual assembly, we do not offer medical advice or diagnostic suggestions.

But here is an important point: Since we arrange and oversee the meeting together of many thousands of members in public areas on a continuing basis, we do hold a very strong interest in positive public health and public safety. Even outside of COVID-19 issues, we must regularly plan for and attend to many issues in the realm of public health. Many biblical passages direct us to be good stewards, which includes creating safe places for worship and fellowship.

As UCG prepares to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles next month, they are making COVID plans. With widespread issues with the Delta variant hitting some states and cities really hard, UCG faces the fact they may need to cancel services in some areas.

We are but weeks away from the Festival season. In America, two of our Feast sites are in Florida, currently the state with the highest number of new COVID-19 infections and related hospitalizations. Some cities—like New York City—have already adopted a vaccine mandate and are now requiring proof of vaccination to enter restaurants, gyms, and other gathering places. Unless the surge abates, we may face changes in how we conduct the Feast. For example, we may need to suspend in-person meetings in favor of off-site webcasting if COVID-19 case(s) are widespread at or near a site, but almost a certainty if that infection is confirmed among attendees (hence the extreme need for everyone to take precautions). 

 

We are carefully monitoring the developing situations around all of our Feast sites and all of our church congregations.

Kubik ends with this:

My message and my request are this: please pray fervently for God’s protection, God’s wisdom, and God’s direction. As Paul directs us, “Share each other’s burdens, and in this way obey the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2, New Living Translation). Be tolerant and supportive of each other, including the posting of messages on social media. Please pray for our older members and those with various conditions, as they may be more vulnerable to COVID-19 infection. 

 

In summary, now is a critical time. Now is the time to really show love for one another. Now is the time for understanding, of appreciating the spiritual and physical challenges that we face. Now is the time for action, of taking precautions and promoting safety for all, even if it is inconvenient. Let us come together, let us speak together, let us worship together “with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace” (Ephesians 4:2-3 ESV).

It will be interesting to see how forthright COG groups will be after the Feast and if they will warn members about COVID infections as a result of Feast attendance.

Is Bob Thiel Setting the Scene to Declare Himself "The Elijah to Come" AND One of the Two Witnesses As Well?

It is quite possible I am reading a bit too much between the lines. So I just ask the question. I learned how to do this from Bob the Prophetic Fudger. But when Bob Thiel notes that HWA was definitely NOT the Elijah to come but...

"Now, presuming Jesus will return within the next couple of decades, then that ‘Elijah’ would need to be alive now. And he would be part of the church that places the highest priority on the truth."

...I have to wonder what he's implying.

Could It Be Me Who is to Come?

(Ok, that's my title for his title)

"PCG claims Herbert Armstrong restored all things, but he did not, nor did he ever make that claim. HWA's writings show he was NOT the Elijah to come"


"Herbert W. Armstrong never claimed to have restored ALL THINGS (Mark 9:12). Neither did he nor the Bible define ALL THINGS as Joel Hilliker has.

Since the Bible does teach that there will be an ‘Elijah’ who is alive right before Jesus returns (Malachi 4:5-6), thus it is not possible that Herbert W. Armstrong was the prophesied final Elijah.

Now, presuming Jesus will return within the next couple of decades, then that ‘Elijah’ would need to be alive now. And he would be part of the church that places the highest priority on the truth.

Yet, most Christians seemingly refuse to accept that."

"....Consider also that the Bible indicates that it is likely that the ‘Elijah’ will be one of the two witnesses."

Why Do the Members of the Restored and Philadelphian Church of God Cults Stay Gyrating in Their Seats?

How Authoritarians Leaders Get Away with It

The one psychological move that frees followers from doubt.

How Authoritarian Leaders Get Away With It

(read the complete article here)

Excerpts from the article:

Experimental psychologist Bob Altemeyer spent his entire career studying authoritarians, both the leaders and the followers. In 1998, he wrote:

“Wanna-be tyrants in a democracy are just comical figures on soapboxes when they have no following. So the real…threat lay coiled in parts of the population itself…ready someday to catapult the next Hitler to power with their votes.”

His and other’s research yields this list of conclusions about authoritarian followers whether they follow tyrants on the left, right, religious, spiritual, whatever:

1. They are highly ethnocentric, highly inclined to see the world as their in-group versus everyone else. Because they are so committed to their in-group, they are very zealous in its cause. 

 

2. They are highly fearful of a dangerous world. Their parents taught them, more than parents usually do, that the world is dangerous. They may also be genetically predisposed to experiencing stronger fear than most people do. 

 

3. They are highly self-righteous. They believe they are the “good people” and this unlocks a lot of hostile impulses against those they consider bad. 

 

4. They are aggressive. Given the chance to attack someone with the approval of an authority, they will lower the boom. 

 

5. Their beliefs are a mass of contradictions. They have highly compartmentalized minds, in which opposite beliefs exist side-by-side in adjacent boxes. As a result, their thinking is full of double-standards. 

 

6. They reason poorly. If they like the conclusion of an argument, they don’t pay much attention to whether the evidence is valid or the argument is consistent. 

 

7. They are highly dogmatic. Because they have gotten their beliefs mainly from the authorities in their lives, rather than think things out for themselves, they have no real defense when facts or events indicate they are wrong. So they just dig in their heels and refuse to change. 

 

8. They are very dependent on social reinforcement of their beliefs. They think they are right because almost everyone they know, almost every news broadcast they see, almost every radio commentator they listen to, tells them they are. That is, they screen out the sources that will suggest that they are wrong. 

 

9. Because they severely limit their exposure to different people and ideas, they vastly overestimate the extent to which other people agree with them. And thinking they are “the moral majority” supports their attacks on the “evil minorities” they see in the country. 

 

10. They are easily duped by manipulators who pretend to espouse their causes when all the con-artists really want is personal gain. 

 

11. They are largely blind to themselves. They have little self-understanding and insight into why they think and do what they do.

Why would people be like this? Lots of reasons that are hard to distinguish. There are probably evolutionary origins beta males subordinating themselves in species with alpha males. Upbringing and social context play a role. We could list benefits of being a follower, for example, that self-certainty is fun. We could also list the costs of the alternatives, for example, that self-doubt, changing one’s mind, or admitting you’re wrong is uncomfortable.

Then there are those who aren’t choosing to be followers but can’t help it because they actually can’t think hard enough to make their own big choices. And then there’s an often overlooked factor: The more complicated the world becomes the more appealing it is to give up on thinking and put trust in an authority who speaks with confidence.

We need to know what motivates authoritarian followers in order to figure out how to deal with them. Demanding that someone think harder will backfire with people who can’t. Calling them con-artists when they’re simpletons or simpletons when they’re con-artists will backfire too. Still, it’s hard to discern true motives, especially with authoritarian-followers, people who don’t know their own motives and so couldn’t or wouldn’t report them.

Here then, rather than focusing on what motivates them, I’ll focus on how they can justify and rationalize believing anything their leaders say and do. I’ll call their approach "machine envy.” They act like they think life’s questions can be answered by a machine that they have discovered and become. Input anything into the machine, you get the one reliable true output.

An algorithm is basically a reliable machine made of numbers, for example, 1+X=Y. Whatever you put into X, you’ll get a reliable output for Y.

Authoritarian followers pretend life is reducible to machine-like cause and effect algorithms. It is the alternative to thinking, defined as doubting, wondering, struggling with ambiguity and ambivalence. Computers may be “intelligent” by some definitions of the term, but they do not think as defined here. They don’t strive to discern differences as though their lives depended on it. Humans think, not that we love having to do it. Still, our lives depend on it.

With authoritarian followers, the thinking is already over. They’re not guessing at what’s true. There’s no interpretation left to do. They and their leaders have already done all the interpretation necessary. They discovered the truth, embraced it, internalized it, and now only have to act on it like machines. They see reality clearly, truly and purely through their unambiguous mechanistic world view.