Tuesday, January 26, 2016

COG Prophet Declares New Zealand is NOT the Place of Safety!



God's most highly favored prophet and leader of the ONLY true church active in 2016, Bob Thiel, has declared that New Zealand is NOT the place of safety!  Who knew!


Super rich hedge fund managers are buying ‘secret boltholes’ where they can hideout in the event of civil uprising against growing inequality, it has been claimed.  

Nervous financiers from across the globe have begun purchasing landing strips, homes and land in areas such as New Zealand so they can flee should people rise up.  

With growing inequality and riots such as those in London in 2011 and in Ferguson and other parts of the USA last year, many financial leaders fear they could become targets for public fury.
Thiel then adds:


Jesus taught that a very rough time was going to come: 


21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. (Matthew 24:21-22) Is the solution to attempt to hide in a country such as New Zealand?  
No. 


The prophet continues:
While there is a certain escape involved in this, the protected Christians are not going to their personal ‘bolthouses,’ but are going to a place that God has prepared in the wilderness. And this is NOT a wilderness in New Zealand. 

While Thiel does not mention Petra is this tirade, he has in the past publicly preached that it is the place of safety.  The place where only his chosen will be able to gather at his feet to be taught words of wisdom.

Then in one finally jab at New Zealand, he writes:


As far as New Zealand goes, many do not realize that the British-peoples in New Zealand are actually descendants of the biblical Joseph’s son Ephraim, the grandson of Jacob. Because of that, New Zealand will be affected by “the time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jeremiah 30:7). 

Since those in New Zealand will be greatly affected by the Great Tribulation, any wealthy who attempt to escape there will find that they trusted too much in their wealth (cf. Matthew 10:24), instead of trusting the Bible. A place of safety will be prepared for the true Philadelphians, but one cannot simply buy admission to it (Revelation 3:7-13; Luke 21:36).

56 comments:

DennisCDiehl said...

There is no more stupid a COG teaching than "The Place of Safety." Not only is it stupid beyond measure but dangerous.

The Book of Revelation, a book that barely made it into the Cannon because it was so confused and weird, is not written to you Bob or Dave, Gerald or Roderick. It's a failed first century prophecy written just prior to the fall of Jerusalem (there is no need to place it so late into the 90's)to Jewish Christians who needed to hang in while the the Messiah routed the Romans within 3.5 years. It only took two years to see the Romans had won.

REVELATION:
1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants WHAT MUST SOON TAKE PLACE. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, BECAUSE THE TIME IS NEAR.

22:
6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants THE THINGS THAT MUST SOON TAKE PLACE.”

7 “Look, I AM COMING SOON.! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.”

10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, BECAUSE THE TIME IS NEAR.

12 “Look, I AM COMING SOON! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.

The author was WRONG. The Romans WON. The Book is not for or about YOU.

What word don't you understand?

Byker Bob said...

Some prophet! All he does is regurgitate the worst of the British Israel based HWAcaca.

Their place of safety is going to be anything but. No US Constitution means they are free to reinstitute stonings, beatings, and expulsion from the place of safety. Members would be better off in the hands of the zombies or the Germans. If Petra ever does happen, it will be all about coddling to the elitist ministry.

BB

Connie Schmidt said...

HERE IS THE PLAIN TRUTH...

When I linebacker or cornerback etc, rushes in , and catches and tackles the Quarterback behind his own goal line, where this happens is ...

"THE PLACE OF SAFETY"

and is worth two points to the tackling team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMtyhcuY9ok

Anonymous said...

"As far as New Zealand goes, many do not realize that the British-peoples in New Zealand are actually descendants of the biblical Joseph’s son Ephraim, the grandson of Jacob. Because of that, New Zealand will be affected by “the time of Jacob’s trouble” (Jeremiah 30:7)"

Oh dear.

Newsflash! The "British" peoples are NOT descended from any Jewish mythological patriarchs.

The good doctor needs finally to go get himself a proper education, doesn't he?

Anonymous said...

Maybe the Duggar family should go to Bob's house tomorrow for breakfast, and insist he's got the REAL POS there.
Bob can put the leaves in the table, and then set the table while all the Duggar kids order eggs, beef bacon, pancakes, and Dom PĂ©rignon champagne to drink...

Some kids will be yelling, "LEVEL THIS TABLE, MY SYRUP IS RUNNING INTO MY EGGS!", while others yell, "You call this an order of bacon? I said I wanted a DOUBLE DOSE!", while a tipsy Mr. Duggar hears strange noises from the attic and reveals, "Yep, I keep my gay kid locked up there, too!"

Anonymous said...

The place of safety is Antarctica. I am going there now.

Anonymous said...

According to the Jews (Talmud), Gentiles have only one soul, which is physical, the Nephesh, just like brute beasts.

But Jews have two souls. A physical soul and a spiritual soul.

They are everything, and we are nothing.

So Jews are the Children of God and the rest of us are no better than sheep and cattle to be slaughtered, enslaved, raped, or robbed as the Jews see fit. We are nothing to them. We were created for their use and pleasure, nothing more.

This is known as Jewish Supremacism, and it is a lot more dangerous than White Supremacism, Black Supremacism, Jap Supremacism, and even Islamic Supremacism (yes, they are supremacists too, since all the World must submit to Islam; "Islam" means submission).

The place of safety, if there were one, would have to be someplace where the Jews and Muslims can't get you.

Dave said...

Good job on highlighting the comments by various COG leaders. When these comments are pulled out and isolated they all look like the complete morons they are. Keep it up!

Anonymous said...

When on the 16th of july 1982 hwa wrote that he sure didn't hope petra would be the place of safety he couldnt have known about the progression of mankind and the five star hotels that are a five minute walk from the siq nowadays.

in the seventies some in my school were contemplating new zealand since most nuclear fall out would be in us and europe. I just read on fb that this guy hated school and us at that time......he should have gone.

nck

Byker Bob said...

One would think that people would want to lighten up and get rid of a horrid burden. The good news is that British Israelism is the most easily disproven of all the doctrines native to Armstrongism. What is it that makes people hang on to it so? When I was a young child, "1975 in Prophecy", "The United States and British Commonwealth in Prophecy", and "The Book of Revelation Unveiled at Last" were absolutely horrifying. Up until my parents bought into the scam, my family had been very positive people. The idea that there could be a problem that was unsolvable to the degree that one's only solution was to dive headling into a system that brought unspeakable child abuse into our lives was extremely disturbing. Nobody had to tell me what the significance of the failure of 1975 was! But most people allowed themselves to be reprogrammed.

A couple years ago, Dave Hulme hinted that he might acknowledge the truth about British Israelism, and half of his church and ministry bolted. What happened to "prove all things"? They could have simply googled "British Israelism" and read an extensive article in Wikipedia or materials on other sites and been free. The problem is that once that domino falls, they know that the rest of Armstrongism collapses around it.

BB

Black Ops Mikey said...

Gavin is doomed.

Prior to World War II, a man determined that war was coming and prepared for it... by setting himself up on Guadalcanal.

The Armstrongists are sort of like that.

Anonymous said...

Any idea what became of the watch that King Leopold gave to HWA and other "artifacts" of the WCG (those that Gerald Flurry hadn't purchased)?

NO2HWA said...

BB Most COG groups and members are afraid to touch the BritishIsrael nonsense. If they do and do a good job in researching it they will see it is easily debunked. Then the trouble really starts for Armstrong's. Once BI is debunked it destroys all kinds of COG myths that are held dear. Its a domino effect with everything crashing down.

Minimalist said...


When is DoubleDose going to actually predict something in the Future?

Isn't that what prophets are supposed to be able to do?

Like who will win the election? - or
Will GE stock price hit 50?

Anonymous said...

personally, I think Bob Thiel is misguided...but it is comical to see how he gets you folks all worked up.

Byker Bob said...

So true, Gary. Most of the people who believe in British Israelism and German Assyrianism couldn't possibly be aware that the British royal family is German!

Pseudo intellectuals in the church are now actually invoking Darwinistic principles to explain why Anglo Saxon haplotypes are radically different from Jewish haplotypes.

BB

Anonymous said...

Maybe someone here IS worked up and I just don't see it, but I suspect you have confused "worked up" with "wryly amused".

Anonymous said...

Speaking of King Leopold:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt1V61SPI_w

Anonymous said...

What a nice photo. I've been to New Zealand as a tourist, very beautiful. One point I discovered is that those beautiful lakes are icy cold. It's like putting your hand into a bucket of water and mostly ice. It's hardly surprising that the
lakes are deserted.

Ralph said...

on January 27, 2016 at 9:53 AM
Byker Bob said...

".... couldn't possibly be aware that the British royal family is German"

Comment:
As are numerous Jews of today!

"Does Queen Elizabeth II have a Jewish ancestor?

Best Answer: HM The Queen is descended from the House of Judah through numerous lines. One of her main lines is from the High Kings of Ireland."

As found at "THIS WEBSITE"

cheers
ralph.f

Byker Bob said...

The materials on that website, Ralph, are reminiscent of and just about as authoritative as HWA's claim to Jewish ancestry.

The geneology and charts in the Wikipedia article on the queen's ancestry, otoh, are just dominated by German names. You will see the names Saxe Coburg and Schleswig Holstein occurring over and over and over. Surely we were not taught this in the HWAcaca.

At one point in history, all of the most eligible heirs to the throne were Catholic. They were skipped over in favor of German cousins, the first of whom was not even very fluent in the English language.

Another shrimp on the barbie?
BB

Anonymous said...

Ralph, having read much on the history of Ireland I can tell you that to arrive at that "best answer" takes a lot of convoluted thinking and in the end people still believe what they want to believe.
toby

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Connie Schmidt said, "HERE IS THE PLAIN TRUTH...

When I linebacker or cornerback etc, rushes in , and catches and tackles the Quarterback behind his own goal line, where this happens is ...

"THE PLACE OF SAFETY"

and is worth two points to the tackling team".

MY COMMENT - Connie, thanks for the good chuckle! So that the irony of your post isn't lost on others who might be unaware, Bob Thiel frequently preaches against the evils of football. He probably wouldn't know what a "safety" is Connie. The evil of football was never preached as one of the "18 restored truths" when I grew up in the WCG.

Richard

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Personally, I think "THE PLACE OF SAFETY" is not some far away place for most in the middle east known as Petra. I don't think its New Zealand or even Antarctica. We won't be taken by "wings of an angel" and we don't need to pray that our flight not be in the winter or on the Sabbath Day.

The Place of Safety was always used as the "invisible carrot" in the WCG since only WCG elect were worthy to escape all these horrible things starting with the German attack on America in 1972.

Despite what WCG traveling evangelist, golf enthusiast, and perhaps alcoholic Gerald "Go water the House of God" Waterhouse use to preach during his 3 hour sermons about the elect being taken to Petra for further training and preparation during the Great Tribulation,
The Lake of Fire Church of God (AKA the Church of Richard) believes the Place of Safety is where you lay your head down at night each night. That God the Deity can protect you where ever you are and whomever you are. Just ask for the Deity's protection.

We are living in the Great Tribulation right now just like all the generations before us dating back to Christ's time. Thank God the Deity for protection every day!

Richard
Pastor General
The Lake of Fire Church of God

Anonymous said...

"Best Answer: HM The Queen is descended from the House of Judah through numerous lines. One of her main lines is from the High Kings of Ireland."

That yahoo page is no more authoritative than if you said it.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed with evidence.

The actual evidence, however, categorically refutes your argument from legend.

Anonymous said...

I hope Ralph doesn't still believe in BI. Say it ain't so, please!

Ralph said...

on January 28, 2016 at 2:36 AM
Anonymous said...

"....and in the end people still believe what they want to believe."

I reached that conclusion long ago.

cheers
ralph.f

Opinionated said...

Hey Ralph, Ive got a bridge here to sell you. Fine price, better make your bid now.

Ralph said...

on January 28, 2016 at 10:40 AM
Anonymous said...

"I hope Ralph doesn't still believe in BI. Say it ain't so, please!.

I see BI as a very narrow term. I do believe that the US, Britain, Ireland, France. Denmark, Australia, New Zealand and others are descended from the ten northern tribes of Israel, headed by Ephraim and Manasseh. There are just too many coincidental matters over time for me to think otherwise and, like everybody else, I believe what I want to believe. Hopefully, from my perspective, this is not a racial matter. There is only one race.
Anonymous of January 28, 2016 at 8:58 AM made mention of evidence. Here is another use of that word:-
'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.'

Ralph said...

on January 28, 2016 at 10:40 AM
Anonymous said...

"I hope Ralph doesn't still believe in BI. Say it ain't so, please!.

I see BI as a very narrow term. I do believe that the US, Britain, Ireland, France. Denmark, Australia, New Zealand and others are descendants of the ten northern tribes of Israel, headed by Ephraim and Manasseh. There are just too many coincidental matters over time for me to think otherwise. Like everybody else, I believe what I want to believe. Hopefully, from my perspective, this is not a racial matter. There is only one race.
Anonymous of January 28, 2016 at 8:58 AM made mention of evidence. Here is another use of that word:-
'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.'

Byker Bob said...

If anyone believes that God needs special places of safety for the Armstrongites because He can't protect them right where they are, then they should be secretly building biospheres in the oceans. Christians right now are being martyred and run out of Islamic countries. That is very unlikely to change any time soon. Plus, war in the middle east is far more likely than nearly anywhere else in the world. Last time I checked, Petra is smack-dab in the middle east. Oops!

BB

Anonymous said...

"I do believe that the US, Britain, Ireland, France. Denmark, Australia, New Zealand and others are descendants of the ten northern tribes of Israel, headed by Ephraim and Manasseh. There are just too many coincidental matters over time for me to think otherwise. Like everybody else, I believe what I want to believe. Hopefully, from my perspective, this is not a racial matter. There is only one race. Anonymous of January 28, 2016 at 8:58 AM made mention of evidence. Here is another use of that word:- 'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.'"

*Facepalm* Only thing is, there is no absence of evidence with BI!

There is GENETIC evidence, and that evidence is unambiguous that Germanic peoples (i.e. Anglo-Saxons) in general do NOT share a common patriarch ancestor with Middle eastern peoples, circa 1800 BCE.

You may think you see some "coincidences," but those connections are illusory because human genetics flatly and conclusively contradicts them all. You can be pig-headed in your ignorance and simply "believe what you want to believe," rejecting hard, objective evidence so that you may cling to myth, but don't paint everyone else with your same foolish brush. Not everyone "believes what they 'want' to believe." Some people don't "want to believe" anything. Some people prefer to follow the evidence because they'd rather try to figure out what's most likely to be true.

Anonymous said...

since all you had to do to become part of Israel is be circumcised and obey God's law there can be quite a large genetic variation...so that so called DNA proof that BI is wrong isn't so solid after all.

Anonymous said...

Isa 28:1 states that Ephraim was to become a people that drank too much wine.

Saw wine in California and Oregon. In England on the whole the beverage of choice is beer.

nck

Ralph said...

on January 28, 2016 at 7:40 PM
Anonymous said...

"There is GENETIC evidence, and that evidence is unambiguous that Germanic peoples (i.e. Anglo-Saxons) in general do NOT share a common patriarch ancestor with Middle eastern peoples, circa 1800 BCE."

Truly, can you explain such evidence in terms that can be understood by a simple layman such as me? I am not an academic and just do not understand your concept.
Is DNA stable or can it change in any way? Can I change my DNA? Can other factors bring about change?

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

on January 29, 2016 at 3:19 AM
Anonymous said...

"Saw wine in California and Oregon."

That figures, if you consider that Ephraim became what is now known as the USA.
The United States Of America, the united "Company of Nations" as found here:- "Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations? shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;"

Not necessarily taking into account the 'Cherokee Nation'

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

At leasts there is scientific proof now for BB that I have more insight than previously assumed. Did you see that BB, Philip Tetlock at work?

nck

Anonymous said...

"since all you had to do to become part of Israel is be circumcised and obey God's law there can be quite a large genetic variation...so that so called DNA proof that BI is wrong isn't so solid after all."

And that's not all, also people tend to leave their homeland and move around at statistical rates. There is genetic variation. All but the most isolated of populations have a smattering of every other haplogroup represented. But this is irrelevant to the real question. Is there sufficient overlap between the genetic profiles of Jews and Arabs (~20% J1, ~20% J2, and ~20% E1b1b), and the genetic profiles of Europeans of Germanic descent, in this case specifically those of the British Isles (~60-80% R1b)? Is there sufficient overlap to suggest that they are both descended from a common patriarch 3800 years ago? Certainly not.

Anonymous said...

"Truly, can you explain such evidence in terms that can be understood by a simple layman such as me? I am not an academic and just do not understand your concept. Is DNA stable or can it change in any way? Can I change my DNA? Can other factors bring about change?"

Depends upon what you mean by "DNA" and what you mean by "stable."

According to biblical chronologies, if an Abrahamic patriarch did exist, he would have lived circa 1800 BCE, or roughly 3800 years ago. Over such a time scale, mitochondrial DNA and Y chromosome DNA are stable. There are no recombinatory processes at work on this DNA and so it does not vary from one generation to the next; it is simply inherited unchanged. For the most part, your Y chromosome, Ralph, is an exact copy of the Y chromosome your paternal ancestor had 3800 years ago, whoever he was. Except for a few highly significant differences.

There are mutations that occur on occasion. Those base-pair mutations as they cropped up one-by-one allow scientists to develop a relative chronology of the various clades and subclades of the human family as it branched over time and thus map paternal lineages according to who shares what specific base-pair mutations. And by comparing the version of the Y chromosome you inherited with the version of Y chromosomes of others, it allows scientists to say with remarkable certainty, how closely related you are to others, and roughly how long ago your respective branches split.

There are three strong signals in the genetic profiles of men who identify as Jewish, of relatively equal intensity, J1, J2, and E1b1b. Together, 60% of all Jewish men fall into one of these three haplogroups, which suggests to me that the modern Jewish population isn't descended from one patriarch at all, but originates out of three different ethnic groups that were fused into a single gene pool in antiquity. A fertile man can only have one Y chromosome, not three. Meanwhile, along the eastern coast of England, R1b makes up ~60% of the population, but elsewhere, in Cornwall, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland, the population is composed of ~80% R1b. If you could say the British peoples had a single paternal ancestor, his Y chromosome was R1b.

Now, let's just suppose that there really was an Abrahamic patriarch that lived 3800 years ago, and that he was either J1, J2, or E1b1b. Any man who is R1b cannot be a descendant of that patriarch. Unless you want to say that the modern Jews are imposters, and speculate that the real Abraham was R1b, 60-80% of the inhabitants of the British Isles cannot be long lost ancient Israelites. Either way, if there was an Abrahamic patriarch, he only had one Y chromosome, not two, three, four, or more. No matter how you slice it, the Jews and the British are essentially unrelated peoples as they do not have a significant paternal ancestor in common.

There's really no room for ambiguity here. Ignorance, yes, but ambiguity? No.

Ralph said...

to Anonymous
of January 29, 2016 at 10:46 AM

Many thanks for your discourse on the "science" of DNA and chromosomes. I mentioned I am not an academic and your discourse seems to be directed to one who is. Words such as 'mitochondrial', 'recombinatory', 'clades','haplogroups' and others are beyond my immediate comprehension and need deciphering through my Merriam-Webster dictionary.

I just simply do not grasp the DNA "rejection" of so called 'British-Israelism' and am content to continue with my long held belief.

In any case it matters little because of this scripture:-"Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
As a "true blue" Christian I accept these words and see myself as a descendant of Abraham, an Israelite, if not direct then by adoption.

Understanding the 'promises' made to Abraham I look forward to eternal life based on this planet Earth, accepting the following words:- "Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:"

I find it to be as simple as that.

cheers
ralph.f

Byker Bob said...

I believe we can extrapolate, Ralph, from what you just shared about your own comprehension, and we can perhaps gain some insights as to why so many of the people within the Armstrong movement do stick with their British Israelism in spite of what is now available to know from the science of genetics. And, this is not an indictment. In court cases involving jury trials, attorneys were at first reluctant to invoke dna for fear that they might confuse the jury and have the case go the other way.

Fortunately, there are about 5 or 6 other ways in which British Israelism can be disproven, some of which are much easier for the typical man on the street to relate to and understand. So, there still isn't any excuse to continue to believe in it. The problem I've found in the ACOGs, though, is that members tend to reject doctrinal education or counter-education from sources that "don't even keep the sabbath", unless their leaders approve the particular work or author. This sort of paradigm allows discredited historians such as approved non-sabbath keeper Alexander Hislop in, but rejects a brilliant scientist such as Neil Degrasse Tyson. We've even seen posters refer to him as "Mr. DaGrassie".

BB

Anonymous said...

"I just simply do not grasp the DNA "rejection" of so called 'British-Israelism' and am content to continue with my long held belief...I find it to be as simple as that."

And there you have it folks. The reason why there are still COGs today.

Ralph said...

on January 30, 2016 at 9:04 AM
Anonymous said...

"And there you have it folks. The reason why there are still COGs today."

Just for the record, I am no longer associated with any COG group.

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

on January 30, 2016 at 8:04 AM
Byker Bob said...

"Fortunately, there are about 5 or 6 other ways in which British Israelism can be disproven,...."

Many thanks for that info BB. Can you lead me to those other ways?
As I mentioned in my earlier post the concept these days matters little, I simply like to picture the possible origins of the major western nations today. My "pictures" are strongly supported, even fortified, by that well researched book "The 'Lost' Ten Tribes Of Israel--Found" authored by Steve Collins. (Now out of print but available as an 'e-book')

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

Who cares about DNA? So called "Scientists" have come up with a new conclusion!!!
And here it 'IS.'


cheers
ralph.f

Byker Bob said...

Ralph, there are articles on the Painful Truth website, there is Douglas's site, and hopefully Silenced will be back on line soon so that you can read their series on the topic. Most everyone who has been contributing to these blogs is aware of all these sites, and the articles have helped many people escape manipulative false ideas and just plain ignorance. My articles on the topic over at Painful Truth are Bible-based. The disproof of B.I. has always been right there in your Bible, but the ACOGs use magicians' sleight of hand to deflect your attention away from it. I suspect they know this, but refuse to teach it because the entire movement is based upon it.

BB

Anonymous said...

"I simply like to picture the possible origins of the major western nations today"

I have to agree with you there Ralph.

Since ancient times nations and especially empires tried to explain their rise to unequalled power in comparison to others in mythical ways. Rome/ Remus and Romulus myth. Troy myths. Atlantis for Egypt etc etc etc.

For modern protestant nations their sudden climb to world domination started around 1600 ad with the collapse of the Holy Roman empire. Many rising protestant nations equalled their break from the Holy Roman empire with the breaking away of the nation of Israel from the Egyptian empire. This is apparent in all manuscripts from that time that equal the new nations to Israel and their leaders to David or even Moses leading them out of the Holy Roman empire. (the ottoman islamic empire was seen by these new nations as benign, interesting, as compared to the empire of the great whore)

This is the start of European Israelism.
No earlier references to this belief exist except perhaps for the declaration of Arbroath.

This belief becomes more apparent when people from these protestant nations begin to wander like the Israelites through barren lands surrounded by heathens. (South Africa, Australia, Canada, North America etc) New Israel begins to form. Look at their manuscripts they all refer to being wanderers like the Israelites.

Suddenly those humble protestant people find themselves at the heart of a world encircling empire. As all empires before them they need an explanation for this ascend to unparalleled power. Surely this must be a gift from God they humbly assume. Then they invent the last myth of origin before the ascend of true science and modern times. British Israelism!

It is HWA and every modern author quotes him or one of his folowers to extend this myth into the American empire suddenly ascending after the first World War. Once more Israel is going to establish the new Jerusalem, that shining city on the hill, the beacon of freedom but now extending to the whole world.

You feel british israelism is not so relevant anymore and explain that feeling by a reference to the new testament. In reality it is a reflection of the shifting away of power from the american empire back to the old empire of china. And of all people you in the south pacific are feeling this as the first of all of us. So this myth of origin does'nt sound as important as it was for those that carried the white mans burden in the 1850's.

In short. I realise that both you and Stephen Collins are not racist in the bad sense of the word. You just seem to be interested in the origins of your nations and its economic ascend to power.

But that is all it is. USBP was just a protestant explanation and excuse for the enduring economic enslavement of all peoples. It explained away why 5 million South Africans were to dominate 40 million African from zimbabwe and extending further. How it was ok for australians to separate aboriginal children from their parents and destroy their culture, etc etc. Than some argue that after decolonisation all that happened was their own responsibility. Then I would urge one to really study the power structure in the decolonised countries and see what companies called the shots. The colonisation never ended until this very moment now that we stand before the ascend of the (gentile nations). And it is exactly that system that was explained and justified to rule and exploit the non anglo saxon nations (and even the borders of those nations were drawn by anglo saxons in Iraq, syria, jordan etc leading)

All blessings could be explained by the USBP myth. Now it seems the cycle of anglo saxon dominance is coming at an end and the transition of power is not without friction now that the old system is changing. We are to heed that in this time of transition no new myths will emerge that lead to the enslavement of the masses.

nck


Ralph said...

Back to DNA. A thought just came to mind as to the impetus behind the conclusions drawn by the DNA "scientists" ie. the denial of "British-Israelism". What was it that drove them to even research into this area? Was it that a number of "scientists" who don't believe the existence of Yehovah, and there are numerous of such, decided that here was a method of disproving the BI concept thus the existence of Yehovah. It is just so easy to confuse the ordinary layman with terminology that is not easily understood by him/her.
In addition to that, are there DNA "scientists" who do not agree with the conclusions so far published? I must admit that I don't know the answer to that one nor how to find out. Perhaps a couple of Google searches would be a good place to start.

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

Here's an interesting one:-
"Conclusion:
DNA Studies in their present state do not confirm the belief that descendants of Ancient Israelites populated regions of Western Europe. Even if some kind of connection between the region of Ancient Israel and the west can be affirmed this does not mean that the people were Israelites. They could have been any one of a number of ancient peoples or a combination of them, e.g. Edomites, Ammonites, Moabites, Phoenician-Canaanites, Assyrians, Amorites, Egyptians, etc.
Nevertheless the very fact that we can now show the high probability (according to conventional DNA studies) of West Europeans having come from the general geographical area of Ancient Israel within the overall time-frame of Israelite Exile should make our beliefs more feasible and acceptable.
Ultimately beliefs of Brit-Am Lost Tribes of Israel Movement are justified by the Bible. Nevertheless we are only human and we need our convictions to be consistent with human understanding. It therefore helps to know that a transference of population in Ancient Times such as that we consider to have taken place is consistent with DNA findings."
Found 'HERE'

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

Of course all people wandered from Africa through Israel to the rest of the world.
The scientific evidencew just does't fit the biblical time frame and certainly not the usbp time frame.
Many parts in the bible are very important because they are an echo of oral tradition of mankind. (just like the odyssee).
For example the story of Adam, Eve, Cain and Able are a distant echo of mankinds transition from being a gather hunterer to farmer. (hence gods curse for the hunter and blessing of the vegetables). Or do you really believe those guys were making children with their sisters. Of course not. They wed women from other tribes (perfectly fitting the scientific time frame) and lived happily ever after as farmers and city dwellers. The time of the wild man had ended.

nck

There is only one escape route from all of this for usbp adherents. And that is that non of the current inhabitants of Israel are jews but just people moved from eastern europe to the middle east. If that were to be true all christians are in trouble.

Anonymous said...

All temporary sources mentioning the GARDEN of eden and Paradise refer to a seclused garden where one grows crops. Thus cains rebuttal who clearly was offering to the hunter God.
So when modern humans crossed all the way from the rift valley in Africa extending into Ethiopia and further on the Jordan valley which the High road to Asia and Europe. These peoples bumped into the Anatolian high plain and Caucasus transitioning to farmers.

So again all mankind moved through Israel. It is that sentiment that is echoed in the bible. Otherwise this tiny stretch of land is only a suburb of the mighty empires of the Egyptian and Syrian empires.

A split between some middle eastern tribes in 600 bc of which part moves to europe should be visible in the DNA of both the modern Europeans or better the Anglo Saxons and the current inhabitants of the Middle East. Unless of course the modern inhabitants of the Middle East are not jews or edomites. btw Edomites are the bearers of original Abrahamic faith it is the (temple centered) jews who wrote the propaganda in the bible that ALL customs founded by Abraham were obsolete and pagan, whereas those edomites were just doing what they had been taught on the High places instead of centering around a temple in jerusalem.

nck


Byker Bob said...

That site you linked to, Ralph, is what is known as an "apologetics" site, as opposed to a scientific site. They are in the business of pushing British Israelism. It's kind of like linking to an Armstrongite site for "proof" that something is true, while ruling out neutrally researched materials on other sites.

Here, try this: Go over to the Painful Truth web site. As you scroll down the main page, on the left side, you will see a picture of the Ambassador Auditorium. Click on it, and you will find the series of exhaustive and well written articles originally published on the Silenced blog under the name "Foundation of Sand".

Here is the rub. You want to continue to believe in British Israelism, and you know it. There probably isn't anything you could read or experience which will dislodge you from that position, no matter how persuasive or authoritative it may be. As was once quipped by the King of Siam (Yul Brynner portrayed him), "That is most unscientific!"

BB

Ralph said...

on January 31, 2016 at 9:30 AM
Byker Bob said...

"Here is the rub. You want to continue to believe in British Israelism, and you know it."
Too true, BB, too true. As I've mentioned before most if not all people believe what they want to believe, be it true or false. I don't want to believe the "British/Irael" concept is false, so I don't. Simple as that.

also:
"As was once quipped by the King of Siam (Yul Brynner portrayed him), "That is most unscientific!"

I have that movie, "The King and I", on a VHS tape. Perhaps I should view it again to find that 'quip' and see if YB was referring to a factual matter. LOL

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

That the 'nation and company of nations' conveniently coincides with Britain and America is hard to dismiss. Throw in Australia being populated by the poms, despite explorers trying to find it for hundreds of years. In the 1588 Spanish Armada, the Spaniards were abut to unload all their men on the east of England, when suddenly the wind changed, forcing them out to sea. There's far too many co incidences.

Ralph said...

on February 1, 2016 at 12:53 PM
Anonymous said...

" There's far too many co incidences."

You have my vote on that one.

cheers
ralph.f

Retired Prof said...

"There's far too many co incidences."

On the contrary. There are precisely the right number to make things turn out so they correspond to the law of averages. The miracle is that the big guy can keep a running tally so events happen exactly as if he were not there at all.